How do I legally sell firearms in the state of Illinois?


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ILannoyed
August 23, 2003, 11:56 PM
I live in the Chicagoland area (Cook County) and would like to sell some of my firearms (handguns and rifles) to raise some cash. How do I legally transfer ownership of them in the state of Illinois?

Do I just make a photocopy of the buyer's FOID card and keep a copy of the bill of sale? Or is more involved? Does an FFL need to be involved?

On a related note, what do you guys think is the best way to get the most money for the firearms I am selling? Some of them are quite new, with less than 100 rounds through them. I would imagine I would get the most for my money by selling to people in state, so that no FFL intervention is required.

Advice? Opinions?

Thanks.

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44Brent
August 24, 2003, 02:45 AM
Look on the back of your FOID card. The instructions state in part, that:

"Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be tranferred any firearm shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer."

Cellar Dweller
August 24, 2003, 02:56 AM
Depends on where exactly you sell it.

For Chicago, Cicero, Tinley Park and Chicago Ridge ALL transfers must be done through an FFL. For Tinley Park, sell six guns in three years and they define you as "conducting business as a gun shop" (unlicensed, of course).

IL State regs (65/3): The buyer MUST display a "currently valid FOID" although you are under no obligation to verify it. You MUST keep a record for 10 years (date, description, serial # and FOID #) and be able to "produce it for inspection to a peace officer on demand."

Chicago (4-144-010): Weapons Dealer license required for any and all sales. Forget about selling within Chicago's boundaries, 'cause you're NOT getting a license, as you'd need a permanent place of business and Richie's approval.

Some towns ban handgun or all sales entirely, even if private.

Helpful link (http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/illocalord.asp#localfirearmspolicies)

eschang1
October 3, 2003, 08:27 AM
Make very sure you withhold any rifle or shotgun for 24 hours from the time they apply to purchase it. A handgun must be held for 72 hours. From my understanding, if you violate this law, you commit a felony.

DonP
October 3, 2003, 11:21 AM
What are you thinking of selling?

The Gun Show season is just starting and many of us would rather buy from a responsible individual than a downstate dealer, given the choice.

Some good advice above. Unless you are unloading a large collection all at once, you are a private seller. I believe the valid FOID card rule and the "keeping a record for 10 years" are the only restrictions. Oh, and you can't sell a handgun to a resident of Chicago without warning them, in writing preferably, that they cannot store the gun within the city limits.

Good luck.

Don P.
Will County

EJ
October 3, 2003, 12:02 PM
Make very sure you withhold any rifle or shotgun for 24 hours from the time they apply to purchase it. A handgun must be held for 72 hours. From my understanding, if you violate this law, you commit a felony.


This is the most often misunderstood aspect of the gun laws in Ill mostly spread by FFL dealers as it IS a requirement for FFL dealers--

There is NO waiting period for legal PRIVATE sale--

CellerDweller and 44Brent covered it perfectly --LOOK ON THE BACK OF YOUR FOID CARD!!!!

IL State regs (65/3): The buyer MUST display a "currently valid FOID" although you are under no obligation to verify it. You MUST keep a record for 10 years (date, description, serial # and FOID #) and be able to "produce it for inspection to a peace officer on demand."


Look on the back of your FOID card. The instructions state in part, that:



And of course The "State of" Chicago -- Cicero --Tinely Park -- Chiago Ridge --Et All -- Crevat

eschang1
October 3, 2003, 02:44 PM
This is the most often misunderstood aspect of the gun laws in Ill mostly spread by FFL dealers as it IS a requirement for FFL dealers--

There is NO waiting period for legal PRIVATE sale--

Yes, it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of Illinois law. However, I must respectfully disagree. I am not a lawyer (just a lowly pre-law student), but I have noticed many discrepencies between what Illinois residents (including state and local police agencies) believe the law is, and what the law actually states. I would strongly suggest you read over Illinois Compiled Statutes, Chapter 720, Act 5, Article 24 ("Deadly Weapons") in its entirety to find many of the discrepencies.

Regarding "waiting period" laws, Illinois statutes are very clear. Section 24-3 of the aforementioned Article, titled "Unlawful Sale of Firearms," states in subsection (A) paragraph (g):

Delivers any firearm of a size which may be concealed upon
the person, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of
such firearm for at least 72 hours after application for its
purchase has been made, or delivers any rifle, shotgun or other long
gun, incidental to a sale, without withholding delivery of such
rifle, shotgun or other long gun for at least 24 hours after
application for its purchase has been made. However, this paragraph
(g) does not apply to: (1) the sale of a firearm to a law
enforcement officer or a person who desires to purchase a firearm
for use in promoting the public interest incident to his or her
employment as a bank guard, armed truck guard, or other similar
employment; (2) a mail order sale of a firearm to a nonresident of
Illinois under which the firearm is mailed to a point outside the
boundaries of Illinois; (3) the sale of a firearm to a nonresident
of Illinois while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the
Illinois Department of State Police; or (4) the sale of a firearm to
a dealer licensed under the Federal Firearms Act of the United
States.

Under this statute, it is established that it shall be unlawful to deliver without withholding for the required period of time, unless one of the exemptions listed is true. Please note that the exemptions are based on the occupational or locational status of the buyer, not the seller, so your status as a private citizen does not give you any exemption. Also, exemptions (2) and (3) should not be taken as a green light to sell firearms to non-residents (this right is reserved for FFL only due to current legislation in Federal GCA '68 and its amendments).

In short, regardless of the seller's status as a private citizen and not an FFL, a sale of a firearm must be withheld for a period of 72 hours or 24 hours, depending on the type of firearm, unless the buyer is in law enforcement, armed security, or an FFL. I would urge you to be very careful in how you approach any firearm sale in the state of Illinois and ask any prospective buyer to make an application for purchase at least 24 (or 72 hours for a handgun) in advance of the time for delivery. Record the time and date the buyer asked to purchase the firearm, and refuse any delivery prior to the required minimum withholding period. Also record the date and time you delivered the firearm to them, and have them initial or sign the paperwork. Call me paranoid, but I even prefer to have someone there to witness the transaction and delivery.

Keep in mind that in the same section, subsection (C)(1), the penalty for violating subsection (A)(g) is established as a Class IV Felony, which carries a maximum sentence of 3 years in state prison, and a fine of up to $25,000. You would also lose your right to possess any firearm under Federal and Illinois law.

To my understanding, this issue has not been addressed properly and clarified until perhaps within the last couple months when Illinois State Police posted the answer to the waiting period question in their online FAQ at: http://www.isp.state.il.us/

If ever called on it, your best bet is probably to make an affirmative defense based on ignorance as set out in ILCS 5/4-8.

EJ
October 3, 2003, 08:18 PM
Sorry Chang -- my face is red-

:uhoh:

Thanks so much for the clarification---


ej

eschang1
October 4, 2003, 05:03 AM
No reason to be embarrassed, EJ, it's a common mistake. I wish Illinois State Police would have sent all the legal information and a copy of their new FAQ with every FOID card issued. There are even problems with the FAQ that are a result of oversimplification of the law (on an issue of handgun age restrictions). I have addressed this issue with Illinois State Police on several occasions. At first they were polite, professional, and responded to my letters in a timely manner, but now they seem to have gotten in the habit of ignoring me or twisting the law to the way they would like to interpret the statutes.

Basically, Illinois is a mess as far as gun laws is concerned, with hundreds of different municipal laws and a lack of ability to interpret the current state statutes. I believe it is their goal to make firearm laws as convoluted as possible in order to discourage citizens from purchasing firearms legally out of fear of prosecution. The fault lies with misinformation abused by moderates and extremists against civil liberties/social freedoms, but partially with us for not being more aggressive in taking action against pending legislation.

Regards

Cellar Dweller
October 4, 2003, 09:41 PM
Regarding "waiting period" laws, Illinois statutes are very clear
Clear as a campaign speech, or at least as thick. 'Cause according to THAT part of the law you would be perfectly OK to sell to a non-resident at a gun show without a waiting period, except, of course, you CANNOT sell a handgun to a non-resident and can only sell long arms to a resident of a neighboring state, but that is buried back at 65/3b. :uhoh:

However, Chapter 720, Act 5, Article 24, section 5/24-3a says specifically "knowinglydoes any of the following"... so you never read this :evil:

iamkris
October 4, 2003, 11:17 PM
And now back to the 2nd most important question in this thread...whatcha selling?

eschang1
October 5, 2003, 09:50 AM
Clear as a campaign speech, or at least as thick. 'Cause according to THAT part of the law you would be perfectly OK to sell to a non-resident at a gun show without a waiting period, except, of course, you CANNOT sell a handgun to a non-resident and can only sell long arms to a resident of a neighboring state, but that is buried back at 65/3b.

Actually, you cannot sell a long gun to a resident of a neighboring state either. You can under Illinois law, but you cannot under current Federal law, as it would constitute unlawful interstate commerce in firearms. Make sure you cross reference all State laws with Federal law before making any move. It is kind of annoying how they bury some statutes in Chapter 430 (FOID Act) and the other statutes in 720 ILCS 5/24.

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