[Sergeant Bob]

$7.4 billion expense hurting American kids, group says
(http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34232)

An immigration reform group says in a new study it costs states more than $7.4 billion a year to educate illegal aliens, with budget-busted California spending more than any other.

Worse, warns the Federation for American Immigration Reform report, the extra expenditures are taking funds away from American children at a time when "public schools throughout the country are facing some of the most significant decreases in state education funding in decades."


Many Mexican children cross into U.S. from Mexico daily to go to school. (Jon Dougherty/WND photo)

"With state budgets in crisis and children taking the hit, communities' limited tax dollars are being diverted to accommodate mass illegal immigration," said the report. "In some states, the amount of money spent to educate illegal alien children accounts for a substantial portion of the state budget shortfall; in New Jersey, for instance, it accounts for 28 percent of the total state budget deficit."

FAIR says almost two-thirds of states either have cut back or proposed reductions in their child care and early childhood programs.

"In some states, drastic cuts mean lay-offs for teachers, larger class sizes, fewer textbooks, and eliminating sports, language programs and after-school activities," the report noted.

The total cost, FAIR says, is "enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide."

Other immigration reformists have said the cost of providing education and other public services to illegals has steadily been on the rise.

For more click here (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34232)

[AZ Husker]

Come out here and see it in person. I've got two daughters who's high school gifted/honors program was cancelled in order to provide funds for "English as Second Language" classes. In addition the music, arts, and some athletics are in danger. Add that to the drain on our health care facilities and social services and see why there are hostile feelings!

[4570Rick]

Welcome to the world that has been Santa Ana for the last 20+ years.:banghead:

[Sergeant Bob]

4570Rick Welcome to the world that has been Santa Ana for the last 20+ years.

Yeah, I lived in Berdoo for 9 years, saw a whole bunch of it. You might be surprised though, we've got a pretty big problem with it up here too. The Aluminum Foundry which I haul molten aluminum out of has about 50% illegal aliens employed, along with many other plants nearby. Most of them are real good workers but, most of them have girlfriends who are baby making machines sucking up Medicaid and welfare!! They don't have money to feed their kids but they have plenty to buy 4WD pickups and build ricers (fast and furious). They buy fake papers somewhere with real social security numbers (someone elses), claim 8 or 10 dependents on their W-4's so no income tax is taken out. They take vacations back to Mexico and can tell you what day they will return. How's that for border security?
The good thing is, here in Coldwater there is no bilingual anything, so at least the kids are forced to learn English while they are sucking up our tax dollars.

[Chris Rhines]

Sounds like a fantastic reason to eliminate state education. $7.4 billion dollars/year, just for the children of illegal immigrants? Think of how much money could be returned to the taxpayers if state education was eliminated across the board...

:D

- Chris

[Waitone]

<Inserts tongue in cheek>

No way! Can't be. How can morally pure improperly documented transient employees possibly be a burden to the states. Don't you know you should be honored to provide services for righteous people? Don't you know you are dangerously close to racist pronouncements when you point out the cost of improperly documented transient employees? Just the price we can expect to pay for being the city on the hill to which the disadvantaged will stream.

<Removes tongue from cheek>

[mussi]

Very simple solution in Switzerland. When children should start to go to school, anybody without a Swiss passport has to deliver valid residency permits. Those who can't get deported. That's usually when they request asylum, finding out that they can get 'legalized' this way.

This way, we at least avoid the illegal's kids to become a burden upon the school system.

[Standing Wolf]

Cheap labor is the most expensive of all.

[Lone_Gunman]

In Georgia, crops would rot in the fields if it were not for illegal migrant workers.

Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans???

[AZ Husker]

If I promise to eat twice as many cucumbers, will you take all our illegals?

[Gray Peterson]

Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans???

There's certainly a lot of unemployed Americans who NEED work.

[Malone LaVeigh]

In Georgia, crops would rot in the fields if it were not for illegal migrant workers.

Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans??? A lot of people would pick them if they were paid a decent wage. By the time you factor in the cost of educating their kids and providing them medical care, their loew wages aren't a bargain for anyone except the businesses that hire them. That's nothing but welfare for the rich.

[dinosaur]

What really counts is they vote democratic. Ain`t America great?:banghead: What next, Kali & Az. voting machines in Mexico?:cuss:

[Lone_Gunman]

There's certainly a lot of unemployed Americans who NEED work.

That may be true, but they would rather sit and do nothing except draw the public dole than do manual labor.

Malone, your comments may or may not be true. Whether the workers are illegal aliens, or good ole US citizens, their children will still have to be educated at the public expense, and medical care would still have to be provided.

If the crops in this country were picked by Americans making a good wage, there would be no market for the produce, because it would be too expensive. When Joe Sixpack is at the MegaloMart Food Center, and can buy an imported apple for less, he will do it everytime.

[PeteyPete]

Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans???

Thats the same argument slavemasters used to perpetuate and justify slavery in the south.

"Who is gunna pick the cotton if we abolish slavery?...White People???"

[rock jock]

Sounds like a fantastic reason to eliminate state education.
Sounds like a great way to send turn our country into a 3rd-world hovel.

A good public education system is the backbone of a literate and productive society. No way can our society continue to progress technologically or remain as a world leader without public education.

BTW, Chris, do you have kids?

[rock jock]

Husker,

You and other parents should join together and sue the school system for denying your kids the education you paid for to accomodate illegals. This situation is going to get worse before it gets better.

[seeker_two]

Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans???

If we could get rid of the illegal infestation (I REFUSE to call it "immigration"), I'd be willing to pay more at the grocery store--because then I'D HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

We talk about cheap vegetables when our tax money is being taken to keep these illegals on the welfare dole & the emergency rooms. I bet it costs more in taxes than what a person would pay in increased prices at the supermarket... :fire:

The only thing that's going to change this is for communities to start ousting illegals themselves. The Fed's won't do it, and the states can't do it. Businesses are going to have to start putting up the "NO ILLEGALES" signs & refusing employment and services before they move on to greener, more liberal pastures.

I for one will not accept a green card or Mexican Consulate card as proper ID. If more places did that, part of the problem would diminish...

[moa]

Also, don't forget that 30% of the 2 million people in jail, and four million on parole or probation are foreign born, most illegals. One example is last years' D.C. sniper, Lee Boyd Malvo, an illegal from Jamaica. Malvo was scheduled to be deported immediately, but INS changed its mind and bound him over to the supervision of his mother, who was also an illegal.

Beside a price in treasure we are paying for all these estimated 9-11 million illegals in our midst, we are paying a considerable price in blood, suffering and quaility of life in many communities.

Also, the influx of huge number of illegals who will work dirt cheap or cheaper, pushes down the wages of many jobs so that no American will apply.

And, some of the illegals have decent paying jobs too while learning a trade.

If we need cheap foreign laborers who will do jobs no American will do then we should return to the old work permits system we had years ago that apparently worked pretty well. I think it was called the "Bresario(sp?)Program"

Additionally, no one should be allowed to immigrate to this country unless they have an American sponsor with the proven means to support them. An example is back in the 1950s, my father sponsored a doctor from Germany. My father had to have proven resources of $100,000, which is he did. Back in the 1950s $100,000 was a lot of money.

Today people can legally immigrate into the country with no known resources. And they can sponsor virtually any number of "close elatives" with no known resources.

[Lone_Gunman]

Thats the same argument slavemasters used to perpetuate and justify slavery in the south

Actually Petey, I am not sure I have ever seen that exact argument used as justification for slavery. The slave owners thought they had something to gain financially by keeping slaves, but I dont think they were doing it so that white people wouldnt have to pick cotton.

Even if it was true, though, after slavery was abolished, the former slaves were still here, and still picked cotton.

That would not be the case if the illegals were shipped out.

Seeker_Two,

You might be willing to pay more at the grocery store, but Average Man will not pay more. Average Man doesnt care enough, or know enough, to worry about why his taxes or so high. He is used to high taxes. He thinks it really is the governments money anyway. That is how he has been educated. What he will complain about is th price of things at the store. When faced with a 10 cent apple, or a 5 cent apple, he will always pick the 5 cent apple.

[HankB]

...it costs states more than $7.4 billion a year to educate illegal aliens, Why the (expletive deleted) are we doing this??? JUST STOP THIS!! Providing ANY services (beyond deportation) to illegal aliens - criminals - fairly reeks of kickbacks and corruption. Who do you think would pick cucumbers otherwise? Americans??? There's certainly a lot of unemployed Americans who NEED work....but they would rather sit and do nothing except draw the public dole End the public dole, and apply Mark Twain's observation that capitalism is the choice between working and starving.

[moa]

Additionally, many illegals work "off" the books and pay no taxes. The employers have an opportunity to pocket the difference.

It is possible that their incomes would be too low to pay any taxes in the first place, but that is beside the point, because we do not know how much they are making to begin with.

For Mexico the illegals are a nice revenue source, with money sent home being the third largest revenue stream.

During the period that the USA doubled its population, Mexico tripled their population. Having millions of illegals living away takes a lot of heat off the Mexican economy and political order.

Other countries gain too. It is estimated 25% of Guatemala's population lives in the USA. Recently, the government of Guatemala sent a plea to its illegals to NOT come home.

[HBK]

I have a one word solution: DEPORTATION!

[Yaqui]

Hmmm...

1. I would suppose that most illegals are renting apartments and don't own their own homes while here in our U.S....

2. They gotta keep that rent up or get evicted.

3. Landlords pay property taxes on their rental properties. For all their rental properties, whether illegals are renting or people that belong here...

4. Property taxes are what funds most school districts (at least they do here in Texas, don't they in most places?)

Conclusion: Illegal aliens ARE paying for their schooling just like anyone else that pays property taxes, either through renting or direct ownership of property... either that or all legal residents/citizens who rent aren't paying their fair share either!

Am I missing something?

$7.4 billion??? Exactly how did that FAIR group conjure up that number?


Illegal aliens are a problem... just not this problem.

[Norton]

Yaqui,

While you may be partially correct in your assertion that illegals pay some taxes, even if indirectly, through their rent and hence property taxes I don't see how you can equate that with what a legal resident/citizen pays.

I'm a teacher, so I am not wealthy by any measure, but I do make a comfortable living. I pay out more than 25% of each paycheck to federal, state, FICA taxes. Couple this with gas tax, sales tax, property tax and I'm sure that I'm easily putting out 40-50% of my annual income towards taxes.

If these illegals are working off of the books, they aren't paying federal or state income tax nor are they paying FICA.

You are correct that the property tax does pay a significant amount of school funding in may communities, however the federal government holds the real purse strings when it come to programs that are affect most by the influx of illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are often the students most in need of special services, whether it's ESL, Special Ed, Pupil Personnel Workers, or prbation officers.

I respectfully submit to you that these people are bleeding our system dry from the inside out. They are consuming more than they produce.......then when the government needs more money, they just up the ante for those of us that are already paying a disproportionate share.

Something to think about.....

Cheers!

[Lone_Gunman]

To those who would support massive deportation of illegals, what exactly would you propose we do without them?

Since they are a significant part of the low wage work force now, who would replace them?

[HankB]

Conclusion: Illegal aliens ARE paying for their schooling just like anyone else that pays property taxes, either through renting or direct ownership of property... either that or all legal residents/citizens who rent aren't paying their fair share either! Most school districts spend $7,500 to $10,000 per student. Are you seriously asserting that illegals' rent in a cheap apartment contributes this amount of money to school districts each year? And if they have a whole pack of kids, what then? There's NO QUESTION we're supporting these criminals.To those who would support massive deportation of illegals, what exactly would you propose we do without them? Mow our own grass? OOPS, I do that now. Hmmm . . . end the dole - do away with LBJ's "Great Society" programs, and today's welfare recipients - at least those who like to eat - will fill the void.

[Lone_Gunman]

HankB,

Ending welfare would be great, but certainly you don't think that there is a chance of that actually happening do you?

I believe you are correct though. If we got rid of the illegals, we would have to get the people sitting around doing nothing but drawing the public dole back to work.

Maybe we could bump the age for social security benefits to 72, and keep people working longer?

[HankB]

Ending welfare would be great, but certainly you don't think that there is a chance of that actually happening do you? Lone_Gunman, sad to say, you make a valid point - there's about as much chance of ending welfare as there is of doing something substantive about illegal aliens. :( Maybe we could bump the age for social security benefits to 72, and keep people working longer? Yeah, we need our old folks to help pull their weight and support illegals longer. And with Dubya planning to put up a new Social Security office in Mexico City, and proposing to pay benefits to elderly illegals who worked in this county even with forged social security papers, there won't be enough money around for Americans who worked legally to pay everyone benefits at age 65. We should all make sacrifices on the behalf of illegals. :barf: :fire: :cuss: :banghead: :(

[seeker_two]

Since they are a significant part of the low wage work force now, who would replace them?

Change welfare to work-fare & you'll have your workers...:banghead:

[Lone_Gunman]

How feasible is putting welfare people to work?

Would it be effective, or cause massive civil disorder?

[moa]

Another important issue regarding illegals is health care. The US Congress mandated that emergency health facilities must treat anybody whos shows up a there. But, this is an unfunded mandate.

This means that hospitals and other medical facilities have to eat the cost of treating illegals and others who do not have the means to pay or have insurance.

This is putting many hospitals in the red ink, and closing down some. This is especially true in the Southwest. The cost is estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Additionally, it makes it harder for American citizens and others to get emergency medical treatment when it is needed because the ERs are filled with illegals.

[Lone_Gunman]

Actually there is a program that funds (at least partially) emergency medical care for illegal aliens.

[PeteyPete]

My friend works at a local hospital here in NJ and says that due to his ability to speak spanish he is constantly being asked to serve as a translator at the free clinic. He says the place is consistantly packed to the gills w/ Mexicans (and to a lesser extent Jamaicans) who are there to pick up their free birth control, diapers, medicines, and formula.

Gotta love em...without these oversexed, brainless fools, who would we have to exploit the welfare state :cuss: :banghead:

[seeker_two]

How feasible is putting welfare people to work?

If the choice is between eating & starving, it's pretty feasable...

Actually there is a program that funds (at least partially) emergency medical care for illegal aliens.

Well, someone forgot to tell the Texas hospitals about it. The small, local ones are going out of business & the larger ones are pushing the costs to the paying patients... :fire:

The US Congress mandated that emergency health facilities must treat anybody whos shows up a there. But, this is an unfunded mandate.

And it's killing our healthcare system. It needs to change to "emergency" services ONLY. No diapers. No formula. No band-aids. And the illegals are turned over to INS for an escort back across the border. :cuss:

[QuickDraw]

To those who would support massive deportation of illegals, what exactly would you propose we do without them?

I get sick and tired of of illegal apologists using this argument.
Who the heck do you think did the work before the mass invasion?
When the labor market gets flooded with cheap labor,it drives
everybody's wages down.
Example:Contractor A, has a crew of illegals working for cash.Greedy homeowner
gets "good price",hires contractor A.Contractor A pays no taxes,social security,
WORKMANS COMP insurance,etc.Puts larger profit in pocket.Quality of building
suffers.So far so good,right?
Contractor B,bids on same job.Price comes in at twice the amount!!!
Contractor B hires only qualified carpenters,pays a realistic wage for people trying
to raise a family.Also pays all taxes and fees and maybe offers health insurance.
Has a company meeting and says"Geefellas,we didn't get that job.I'm going to
have to lay some people off.Those that stay will have to take a pay cut,loss of
benefits.
Contractor B goes out of bussiness because he refuses to break the law and
hire illegals.
Carpenters move away because they can't afford to live in area unless
they do as illegals do,6-9 people in 2 bedroom apartment.
Who suffers?
1. "Greedy homeowner" gets crappy,substandard work.
2.Contractor B obviously is broke!
3.Qualified carpenters are now out of work.
4.Illegals are still living in squalor,sending all their money "home".
5.Prevailing wage in area drops,everyone in the building trades takes a hit.
6.With any luck,Contractor A receives an invitation from the IRS "to explain a few
things".
How do I know?
I'm Contractor B.

QuickDraw

[wingman]

Illegal immigration into the United States threatens the future of the nation, a Colorado congressman told Mesa County Republicans on Friday.

U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Centennial, drew two standing ovations from about 100 Republicans, even though he acknowledged his stand on illegal immigration runs counter to that of the party's leader, President Bush.

Forcing a national debate over illegal immigration transcends party loyalty though, he said. At issue, he said, isn't so much whether the United States will have a Balkanized future, but whether it will have a future as a nation at all.

Illegal immigration combined with "the cult of multiculturalism" and the welfare state threaten to undermine and bankrupt American institutions, he said.

Tancredo joked that he actually was on his way to California to get in on the governor's race. In an exclusive interview with The Daily Sentinel, however, he said the stakes actually are a bit higher than a governor's race.

He has visited California on several occasions with the hope of forcing illegal immigration to a top-level issue in the 2004 presidential race.

One vehicle, he said, might be a referendum in the nation's most populous state that would limit access to any government services to citizens or legal residents only.

"Even if I'm 180 degrees wrong," he said, "the subject at least deserves a debate."

Tancredo said he advocates securing the nation's southern border using a 20,000-strong Border Patrol combined with high-tech equipment to prevent illegal border crossings.

A guest-worker program might be in order for industries that couldn't otherwise find employees, but no such program could work without a secure border, he said.

It's particularly important to secure the border, he said, because it isn't used only by Mexicans seeking employment.

"Huge numbers" of Middle-Easterners frequently cross the border, often helped by Mexican drug gangs who charge $30,000 for the use of their expertise, he said.

"I don't blame them," he said of illegal immigrants looking north for opportunity, but he noted the Mexican government relies heavily on money sent by illegal immigrants to their relatives to bolster the economy.

That amounts to about $10 billion a year, a third of the Mexican gross domestic product, he said.

Tancredo urged the Mesa County Republicans to insist that all candidates be held to account on illegal-immigration issues.

Even if offices such as city council or county commissioner seem to have little to do with illegal immigration, candidates still should be forced to take a position.

"Get them on record," he said.

[wingman]

Texas is facing same problems as calif. with such large population growth it
can not continue to fund all services, property tax alone will not do it, there is
no doubt an income tax or sales tax increase is coming. My understanding is we
now spend more on illegal students then kids born in this country. This is not
about race, where they are from, it is numbers and that must be contained or
slowed in some manner.

I still ask this question how many can the American taxpayer provide for, is there a limit. No one wants to see anyone good without food, shelter, jobs
however at what point will it break our country.? How will continued illegal
immigration affect your life and that of your children.?

[HankB]

My understanding is we now spend more on illegal students then kids born in this country. IIRC, I saw a story a while back that in Kalifornia, illegal aliens going to college there (!) get to pay "in state" tuition levels, which are considerably less than the tuition required of AMERICAN CITIZENS who come from other states.

So, as long as the illegals have been illegally in Kali for a while, they get rewarded. :fire: :cuss: :banghead: :barf:

[DontShootMe]

Just give in to the fact that over 50% of your income will be taken to pay for this kind of stuff unless you, yourself begin to produce many children and/or start your own business.

And hope you dont get put away for too many years when you defend yourself against an illegal alien breaking into your house to take what is rightfully his.

That is the American way.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I'm thinking of applying for a Mexican ID, so I can get cheap car insurance and free checking, along with a 'backup' drivers license... :rolleyes:

Change my name to DónShooMe

[Carlos Cabeza]

Since they are a significant part of the low wage work force now, who would replace them?

I propose that all teenagers get kicked out of the house at age sixteen unless they are actively and aggressively pursuing a higher level of education. No sucking the parental hind tit any more. This alone would increase unskilled labor levels to astronomical proportions.

Don'tShootMe, I have already adopted my hispanic namesake, quietly awaiting its potential benefit. :D