[DEDON45]

I've noted in the Speer reloading manual they specify a Magnum (CCI of course) Large Pistol Primer for use with H110 in the .44 Magnum. In the latest Hornady manual, they are using a Winchester WLP Primer in similar loads... I've been loading using Magtech 2 1/2 primers (from what I've seen, functionally equivalent to the Remington 2 1/2 primer) ... just wondering if I'm getting all power I should be getting with the "non magnum" primer. I've had no Misfires, etc... but I have noticed that firing full house handloads (pushing max) loads do not recoil as much as Winchester factory hunting ammo (same grain bullet) does. I don't have a Chrony, (checking velocities would help solve the mystery to be sure) ... could it be the burn rate, etc. with the H110 powder just results in lighter recoil than the Winchester factory Ammo? Is anyone using 2 1/2 (Remington or Magtech) primers in their .44 Mag full house loads?

Thanks for the info guys...

[Snapping Twig]

H110/W296 (same powder) needs a really good crimp. I've never used a magnum primer for it in either .357 or .44 mag.

I read a Skeeter Skelton article back in the 80's about this, tried it and never looked back.

Remember, big crimp.

[Hobie]

I always use a magnum primer with ball powders, particularly H110/W296. I get more consistent velocity readings and slightly better accuracy.

I also pay attention to the manuals. If I ever change a thing they recommend I darn well know the ins and outs of the whole thing first.

[YodaVader]

In the latest Hornady manual, they are using a Winchester WLP Primer in similar loads

The WLP is listed on the box as

LARGE PISTOL
FOR STANDARD OR
MAGNUM PISTOL LOADS

That is the primer I usually use for my 44 mag loads with H110 or 296 with excellent accuracy.

[Grizzly Adams]

The new Winchester primers say they can be used for both standard and magnum loads. This is a change from the older primers.

I have found that using H110, to get complete powder burn in all my .357s and .44 mags I have to use magnum primers.

[DEDON45]

I guess I'll just buy some WLP primers and see what's what. Seems to be two camps (what I was afraid of) on this one...

[LB7_Driver]

A standard primer will seldom (if ever) fail to fire the cartridge, so you don't NEED 'em.

For H110/W296 in the 44 mag? Yup, I'd use a magnum primer - for better consistency if nothing else.

[rcmodel]

Probably not any really cold weather there in S.C., so no, you might get by without them.

If it gets down to zero though, you will need them!

rcmodel

[243winxb]

WLP, one primer does it all. http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primer_chart.htm CCI Primer Chart http://www.winchester.com/PRODUCTS/CATALOG/components/dataprimers.aspx Link to win. primes

[.38 Special]

I find that non-magnum primers always light the .44/H110, although I have never tried it in less than 50 degree temperatures.

My chronograph, though, shows that velocities with H110 vary tremendously with non-magnum primers, and long range accuracy goes out the window. And I have read warnings concerning pressure spikes and secondary flash effect with the combo, which doesn't surprise me.

I really see no reason to use non-magnum primers with H110.

[dmftoy1]

I had a heck of a time getting consistent ignition in my .50 S&W using WLP primers and H110 . . .I'm pretty sure my crimp wasn't as good as it needed to be BUT I switched to "real" magnum primers at the same time I adjusted my crimp and have never looked back.

Just my .02

[buck460XVR]

altho they recommend magnum primers for .357 and .460S&W, Hodgdon(makers of H110 and Win 296) recommend only large pistol primers for .44 magnum loads on their website.

[ranger335v]

"Is a magnum primer really necessary for H110 powder in the .44 Magnum?"

"Necessary?" Well...no. They will go BANG with standard caps too. ??

[MMCSRET]

I use Winchester or Remington large pistol primers. They do not make a L.P. magnum primer as their primers are good for all applications L.P. primers are called for. Simplifys inventory.

[ArchAngelCD]

H110 & W296 are hard powders to ignite so you really should use a Magnum primer. What's the big deal? They cost no more than the standard primers!

[DEDON45]

Well, I guess the question is.... why doesn't Remington sell a Magnum Large Pistol Primer? I've checked, it's not in their catalog. Could it be they, like the Winchester WLP, are hot enough for magnum loads?

[MMCSRET]

Indeed, WLP primers are what Winchester recommends for their W296 powder which is the same as H110. I have never had a problem getting Either powder to ignite properly, unless I maybe was going to store my ammo in the deep freeze.

[Mal H]

On the Remington question, no, the Rem 2 1/2 is not the same as the WLP. It is not designed to be used with both standard and magnum loads. If you need a LP magnum, stick with WLP's, CCI 350's, or Fed 155's.

Like many others, I use the WLP with H110 and never had a problem with it. As Snapping Twig said at the beginning, a good solid crimp is a very important factor with that powder (and W296).

[ArchAngelCD]

Winchester WLP are clearly marked for both standard pressure rounds and Magnum rounds. They are in deed hotter than standard primers from the other companies.

[Dumpster Baby]

Many years ago I loaded some .357 magnums with either H110 or W296, can't remember now, and used standard primers as I was out of magnum primers. Those loads were very inconsistent in power level and finally I had a squib that lodged a bullet in the barrel of a 6" Colt Trooper MkIII.

After that I pulled down the remaining shells and started over again with the right stuff per the loading manuals. Since then I've never deviated from long established loading data.

[DEDON45]

Mal H... given your statement that 2 1/2 primers aren't recommended for .44 Mag, and Remington doesn't make a "magnum" 2 1/2, what does Remington use in their factory .44 Mag ammo?

[Mal H]

Mal H... given your statement that 2 1/2 primers aren't recommended for .44 Mag ...You'll have to point out that "statement" to me.

Besides, that's a different issue, DEDON45. I, in no way, implied that Rem 2 1/2's can never be used with a .44 Mag load. I said the 2 1/2 is not the same as a WLP and cannot be substituted for a magnum primer when a magnum primer is called for such as with H110/W296.

It's quite possible that Remington (or their ammo supplier) uses Rem 2 1/2's in their rounds. It's also possible that they don't. In any case, they probably use a bulk powder blend that you can't buy off the shelf. The characteristics of that powder may not require a magnum primer.

[DEDON45]

I guess you took my question the wrong way... I wasn't trying to call you out at all... your post seemed to indicate to me that you think 2 1/2 primers aren't suited for Magnum loads, just asking what you thought Remington did.

Anyhow... I've decided to go get a Chrony, test it myself, and I'll share what I learn with you guys here.

[Ifishsum]

DEDON45, it's the powder used that dictates whether magnum primers should be used, not the cartridge. You don't have to use Magnum primers with all .44 mag loads, but you should with H110/W296 - which is what you said you were using in your original post. Remington may use a powder in their factory loads that does not require a magnum primer.

[buck460XVR]

DEDON45, it's the powder used that dictates whether magnum primers should be used, not the cartridge. You don't have to use Magnum primers with all .44 mag loads, but you should with H110/W296 - which is what you said you were using in your original post. Remington may use a powder in their factory loads that does not require a magnum primer.

maybe you missed this.........
altho they recommend magnum primers for .357 and .460S&W, Hodgdon(makers of H110 and Win 296) recommend only large pistol primers for .44 magnum loads on their website.

[DEDON45]

Well, an update is in order...

Emailed Magtech, their response was:

“According to our ballistic manager, the customer can use our 2 ½ primer with no problem, as it has enough energy to initiate the propellant.”

Then I was poking through the little Hodgdon Reloading Manual (not the big one, the little booklet one you get with Lyman products, came with my Case trimmer) ... and it shows their H110 Loads for .44 Magnum using a Remington 2 1/2 (what the Magtech primer is modeled after, even uses the same description) primer to light them off.

I feel pretty positive that I'm fine with the Magtech LP primers, based on these... I still haven't gotten a chronograph, but I'm going to the range at about 3:00PM today, and will have six rounds in hand loaded with CCI Magnum primers to compare with my Magtech loads (24 Grains of H110 behind a Hornady 240Grain XTP bullet -- yeah, it's max--in most manuals, anyway--but no pressure signs in my Ruger) to see if I can see any difference...

[DEDON45]

Yes, this thread is back from the dead! I got a new Chronograph (Competition Electronics Digital Pro... got it for 90.00, pretty good deal) and have conducted some "scientific" tests...

I bought some CCI Magnum Large pistol primers, and loaded up 12 rounds with 24 grains of H110, mixed cases (Winchester and PMC), and Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets... did them with the same setup on my LnL AP that I used to load up my other rounds with Magtech primers... also had my buddy with me who used the same bullets, same mixed cases, same charge, but he uses WLP primers exclusively. As an experiment, he also loaded some up with some CCI non-magnum pistol primers he had. Testing was done using his Ruger Blackhawk (6 1/2 barrel) and my Ruger Super Redhawk (it has a 8 1/2 or 9 inch barrel)

My Redhawk showed an average of 1448fps, and an extreme spread of 34fps, for the load with Magtech primers. Same gun, using the CCI Magnum primers, showed an average of 1475fps, with an extreme spread of 44fps. I repeated the test a few times, came up with similar numbers every time. So, while I get more fps with the CCI Magnum primer, I got less consistency... strange.

My buddy then tested the same load, with WLP primers... (his barrel is shorter, thus the lower overall speeds) He got an average of 1290fps, with an extreme spread of 56fps (not sure what that's about, he loads on a older Lyman turret press, while I load on a Hornady LnL AP, at a much faster rate). He also tried out those loads with some CCI 300 primers, got an average of 1335fps (faster!) and an extreme spread of 28fps. Again, these kind of results were repeatable...

My conclusion: There's nothing wrong with using the Magtech 2 1/2 primers in full-house .44 Magnum loads, and even non-magnum CCI primers are more consistent than WLPs... We also tested my .45ACP reloads (I loaded him up a few boxes while we were waiting on his new dies to get here) with both WLP and Magtech primers.... the Magtech loads ended up being more consistent than WLP-primed loads. Not by a lot, but they were more consistent... To put it mildly I was rather surprised, given that the Magtech's are somewhat less expensive than the Winchester primers. The only other factor I can think of that may be an issue with the full-house .44 Magnum loads is temperature; that is, how well do these different primers function at low temperatures. I think next time I'm going to put some rounds in a cooler and try them to see what happens.

Of course, this doesn't mean that the WLPs won't be better in some other load combination or another caliber; but for my .45ACP loads (HS-6 and some AA#5) and .44 Magnum (H110) loads, it isn't.

[454PB]

There have been a lot of references to crimp....but no amount of crimp will replace a good tight case grip. I've been in this same discussion before, and I'm one who has had to beat bullets out that were stuck in a barrel. I live in cold country, and I use magnum primers with H-110, WW 296, AAC#9, and WC820.....all slow burning ball powders. I recommend you remove and measure the diameter of your expander ball. For .44 magnum, using .430 bullets, your expander should be no larger than .425". You should see a visible bulge in the area of the loaded brass that the bullet occupies. For my .454 Casulls, using .451" jacketed or .452" cast, my expander measures .448". Whatever primer you choose, all the lack of extreme spread or accuracy are trumped by a bulged barrel or blown gun.

[Hook686]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/dmchinnock/Misc/happyfacepopcornmunch-3.gif

hmmmm I use to use W296 with my magnums. Now I'm using 2400 and have a bunch of magnum primers. I'm using them with the 2400.

[Clark]

If you want to reduce the H110 44 mag loads by 10 grains to make old 44 special loads, you will not need a magnum primer.
That would not do any good.
You need a heavy roll crimp.

[GaryL]

The only other factor I can think of that may be an issue with the full-house .44 Magnum loads is temperature; that is, how well do these different primers function at low temperatures.FWIW, I've had no problems with WLP primers lighting off H110 at -20* F. I suspect that's well below any temp you're likely to see in SC.

[NCsmitty]

Regardless of the powders used, it's important for more consistent loads to use a good solid crimp as stated before. For my take on the H110/W296 and actually all ball powders, use of magnum primers is the best idea, but should be used from the beginning in working up the loads. You shouldn't switch from standard to magnum primers on near max rated loads that have been previously worked up. Most people are aware of the warnings of reduced loads of H110 too.
I started loading 410 shotshells with the standard 15 gr. of H110 but I was not getting consistent ignition, even some squibs. After I switched to Alliant 410, no more problems.

NCsmitty

[DEDON45]

GaryL, I suspected as much; I think the same goes for the Magtech primers... I'm getting more consistency with them (at least with my equipment and 2 different guns). Thanks for the info, that's good know!