[Nightcrawler]

Though my two semiautos are both .45s, I've been wanting a 10mm for a goodly while.

My problem is this: I don't especially like the Glock 20 (and think that the $610 the G20/21s around here go for is too much for a poly framed gun), it doesn't fit my hand especially well (though I've never shot a Glock) and the Glock line really doesn't appeal to my sense of style. Well, a 15+1 10mm autoloader does, but a Glock doesn't, if that makes any sense. Even with the added eclectic-ness of being an oddball like 10mm, Glocks are just too...I don't know..."you will be assimilated" for my taste. Maybe if I customized it...Glocks don't really lend themselves to personalization (nor do most polymer framed guns), but a Robar grip reduction and a hard-chromed slide would make it stand out, at least....

Anyway.

On the other hand, the Witness might be okay, but I'm worried that it won't be as strong as other 10mm guns out there (and you want strength in a 10mm gun), and that if anything goes wrong with it I'm prettymuch screwed as EAA's customer service reps, hate, you know, people. Like people in general. Prettymuch everybody.

So...what's to be done?

I had this crazy idea that I could maybe get a 10mm slide and barrel fitted to my NRM Gov't Model. After that, slap in a 10mm magazine and in theory I'd be good to go.

Is there any reason this won't work? The 1911 has a frame-mounted feed ramp, correct? Will the .45 feed ramp work with 10mm?

The only other option, as I see it, would be to *sigh* go custom, which I really can't afford.

[clubsoda22]

1911 style 10mm's seem not to last very well either. If you really want a beast of a gun to handle the 10mm, enter the MEGASTAR

http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10HP/3/1megastara.jpg

Weighing slightly over three pounds unloaded, this gun is scarry huge. It will also never break for that reason, and has CZ style external frame rails, which lend themselves to excellent accuracy. You can use post ban .45 magazines loaded with 10mm to achieve higher capacity, although you may be able to find some pre bans (though at considerable cost as the gun came out in 1993)

[stans]

A 1911 will hold up to 10mm if it is set up correctly and the Witness is supposed to hold up well to the 10mm. As far as building a 1911 in 10mm, you might want to start with a 38 Super/9mm frame, since that is what Colt did and their 10mm's had a good reputation for reliability. My Delta Elite is the only 1911 that I have that will feed empty shells!

[tlhelmer]

I read that Kimber is going to make a 10mm. I asked on one f the threads if it would be strong enough and the consensus was that it would be plenty strong.

[Tamara]

You could do the slide and barrel thing, but why not just get a dedicated 10mm 1911?

[JimC]

FWIW, right now there are several original blue Colt Delta Elite 10mms on GunsAmerica.com at what I feel are quite affordable prices.

I just bought one from the Buy/Sell Handguns section here on THR. It was made in 1990, never fired or dis-assembled. It did not come with the box but the pistol is pristine. :D

The unfired status will change this coming week.

[tlhelmer]

Jim, Can you post a link?

[Byron Quick]

Dan Wesson makes a 1911 in 10mm. Forged frame and slide. The Razorback. Mine is shooting like a dream.

[JimC]

Jim, Can you post a link?

Go here...GunsAmerica.com (http://www.gunsamerica.com/fast.cgi?guncat=1330) and then do a search for Colt Delta Elite, upper right hand corner.

[Drifting Fate]

Another option is to find a used Smith 1006. Very strong, accurate, and reliable (well, the non-FBI trigger group, at least.)

[agtman]

S&W 10mms ....


Yeah, I agree with Drifting. You might want to check out the Smith 10mms if you can find them. You can still get factory grips, with your choice of straight or arched backstrap, or you can get the soft rubber Hogues.

If you come across any Smith 45XX-series pistols, they're built on the same large frame as the 10XX-series guns. Chances are, if your hand likes the feel of a Smith 45XX gun, you'll be fine with a Smith 10mm's grip. These guns are built like tanks and are very accurate.

HTH.

[jerryd]

I have a DW razorback, and love it!, Kimber is coming out with one next month, also rumor has it SA might be coming out with one , so look around and see whats out there!

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

NC,

Is your .45 1911 frame going to have the right ejector?

Stans, what is a 9mm/.38 frame? Just a different ejector or what?


Bargain Delta's are $850! Ouch.


Another choice would be the Springfield Omega. It was built with a Peters Stahl linkless top end and polygonal barrel. The prices are start lower than a used Delta. There's a ported 6" on Gunsamerica for $900.

I don't think the Witness is a big risk at $350. My .45 was very nice and accurate.

[JCox]

AGT is correct. (Not that he wasn't.)

I have a S&W 1006 10mm that the local pd used to carry a few years ago. I sold it and then bought it back. I have a few Glocks as well but nothing in the 10mm cal. Glock is fine if you like the frame and it fits good. If not, leave them alone.

I really like the Smith because of several features. If you drop the mag and there is one in the chamber, it will NOT fire. Everything on this gun is smooth as silk. Grips are interchangable and so on. If you can find one, grab it. You'll be glad you did.

[Big Mike]

Another recommendation to look at S&W 10xx series. KY Imports has the 1076, old FBI gun for under $400, used. I am seriously considering trading my Beretta 92 for a 1076/1066. I too do not care for the Glock, and I should qualify that I have owned 3 of them, G19, G21, G26. The more I research the S&W line of 3rd gen 10mm autos I am more and more convinced they are the strongest out there. Hope this helps. Mike

Also, I got a S&W 6906 from KY Imports and it turned out to be a virtually new pistol, all @ $300. I will buy from them again.

www.kyimports.com

[Rich357]

While you are looking for a steel framed 10mm, it wouldn't hurt to give a
Glock 20 a try at your local range that rents. It would give you an excuse to shoot a Glock.

Good luck,
Rich

[sanchezero]

For 10mm 1911, you'd ideally want a .40SW platform.

A smith can ream the chamber for 10mm then just upgrade the springs and get new mags and your good to go.

Here's a thread with a ton of good info:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36532&highlight=10mm

:)

[Zundfolge]

There's a nice looking Delta Elite right here in the THR classifieds

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37089

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=451138

[stans]

Stans, what is a 9mm/.38 frame? Just a different ejector or what?

The frame feed ramp in 45 ACP 1911's is cut a little deeper than in 9mm, 38 Super, or 10mm. 10mm may work reliably in a 45 frame, only one way to find our for sure.;) Colt's 10mm did use a 9mm/38 Super ejector and the slide was machined for this size ejector. To me it looks like Colt took the 38 Super 1911 and modified it for 10mm. And I agree, the best way to get a 1911 in 10mm, if you can't buy one, is to modify one that is already in 40S&W.

[yotehunter]

Dan Wesson Razorback, I have 3 of them. They are built like tanks and with alittle tweaking they run great.

[Sox]

The 1076/1066 is a great platform for the 10mm. They are durable, accurate, and heavy enough to tame the recoil. The recoil really isn't that bad. I wish there was more hardware available as I think the popularity of the round would increase. It is one fun round though. Try the Georgia arms 155gr @1375fps.

[Nightcrawler]

Glock 20 a try at your local range that rents. It would give you an excuse to shoot a Glock.

Isn't any such range in my area.

As for the 10mm 1911s, I'd definately want a Delta. I dislike 1911s with front cocking serrations, I really and truly do.

[Peter M. Eick]

I see the 97b was not to your liking...

The Razorback is a good 10mm, and you can get it with a clean slide.
Les baer will make you a 10mm and you can get it with a clean slide.
There are a bunch of colts out there if you have the patience.

Frankly though for real raw 10mm power, it is my opinion that the g20 and witness are the way to go. My witness is reasonably accurate but very reliable and the g20 with a kkm barrel is great!

[Nightcrawler]

I see the 97b was not to your liking...

I love my CZ-97B. It isn't perfect, but I like it far too much to sell. I'd snag a 10mm one of those in a heartbeat, if they were made (and believe me, there IS a difference between a Witness and a real CZ).

I didn't know you could get clean slide razorbacks. One with vertical serrations would be REAL nice, but that might be pushing it.

Les Baer...ooh, pricey...

[Parker Dean]

Originally posted by Nightcrawler
I didn't know you could get clean slide razorbacks. One with vertical serrations would be REAL nice, but that might be pushing it.



As far as I know the manufacturing run of RZ's is completed but Lew Hortons ordered a mix of FCS and NFCS along with a mix of sight options (Bomar and Novak clones and fixed).

The NFCS and optional sights were ONLY on those numbered lower than 150. 151-650 got FCS's and Bomar style. Back January-March you could order the RZ the way you liked it within a menu of standard items. Somewhere between 75 and 100 of the "first" 150 were accounted for this way. Along about March Lew Horton's bought up the remaining numbers in an unknown mix of options. You'll have to call them to see if they have one that suits you. FWIW, I know for a fact that #51 currently resides in a shop in Nacogdoches TX and it is a NFCS/Bomar combo.

As for the straight serrations the RZ's all came with "enhanced" style diagonal serrations.

Dan Wesson does offer the 10mm in the Pointman Major line:

http://www.danwessonfirearms.com/pmnewcalibers.htm

Unfortunately they appear to have FCS's but DW HAS been known to do mix-n-match with frames and slides to suit a customers request if at all possible with existing frames/slides. It should be noted that DW does not make their own frames/slides and exactly what machining they do is unknown to me. The Patriot and RZ's have S&W frames and slides while the Pointman lines use another manufacturer's that has not been named beyond the assertion that it is an American company.

[yotehunter]

My three Razorbacks No.211, 212, and 215 are all identical. They have no FCS and on the left side in very small letters is RZ 10. The slides look very nice without all the crap others have on them.

[MCNETT]

Another vote for the Delta Elite, if you don't like Glocks. I have had my DE since 1989-1990 and it still shoots my heavy stuff and is smooth. I think that the G20 is the strongest 10mm auto on the market today, but the S&W autos and revolver are up there as well.
-Mike

[Bren]

I have a Witness, S&W 1006, and SS pre II Kimber 40 that is reemed.

I like the Kimber the best since it is VERY accurate and reliable (it's been 100% with metal form mags) and has the best trigger and feel to me being a 1911. I got it LNIB for $525, the LNIB 1006 for $450, and EAA target, new for $325.

The 1006 is a great gun and very tough but has that long trigger like the EAA. All are accurate and totally reliable so far and worth every penny. :D

The Colts may need some tweeking to be a tack driver,, there is a blue delta for around $669 (buy now, on auction.)

the DW Razorbacks have had some problems and have some cheap junk parts that need changing and will cost you money , they also don't have a fully supported ramp barrel like the others(including Kimber), which could be a danger with hot loads, also make a cast frame PM -10mm for $600 or less. But I stongly suggest the Kimber mod for the money.

Find a good used pre II Kimber 40 and have it reemed for about $75 or so. You will not believe how good the 40's shoot when reemed to 10mm .

Also the S&W 610 revolver is very accurate and shoot 40's as well.

The Star is impossible to find at a good price, is too heavy to carry and LOL with parts and mags. The 1911 and Glocks have all the aftermarkt parts you'll ever need. Bren

[Parker Dean]

Originally posted by yotehunter
My three Razorbacks No.211, 212, and 215 are all identical. They have no FCS ...


Interesting. That wasn't in the deal as I understood it, all numbers over 150 were to have FCS's, but hey, that's what you get with a small manufacturer.

[Bren]

Parker Dean, they made a "Panther" with serrations AND SS also when the whole idea was A clean dark carry gun. I've seen DW 1911's with other peoples names on them as well. :uhoh:

They go with the wind and have plenty of it! . :p

[tiberius]

Bren,

How do those recut .40 Kimbers hold up? I know that they are bringing out a factory 10mm soon, but this sounds interesting.

[CZ-100]

Delta Elite, I have owned mine since '88, Great Gun!

[Bren]

Tiberius, They hold up real good like any well made 1911 should when sprung right. The fixed sights are dead on and the modern beavertail feels much better with warm loads. I'm still amazed at how well this gun works and shoots ( being a conversion) and it has become my favorite. I've owned lots of Kimbers but the 10mm seems to really do it for me.

Mines a pre II BTW, I don't care for the type II guns. Get out and find a 40!


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid76/p53b3e7753b6e11d93cc8b1f95286449f/fb47b86f.jpg

[MikeD29]

I have Razorback 180, it has NFCS, also had some other changes as well, namely he K style trigger.

I also have two Deltas and a Glock 29, all great guns.

Patience is the key with the Deltas, I got my Stainless one this year for $550 shipped. I was able to trade my H&K compact for the blue Delta, so I guess $500 was what I paid for it. Just search the auction sites and local gun shows....saw a stainless Delta go for under $600 at the last San Antonio SAXET show. If I would have had money at the time, I would have gotten it, saw it a couple of hours before it sold. I actually overheard a guy talkin 10mm and gave him the heads up on it, he bought it.

My next purchase is going to be a S&W 1066 or 1076.

I have a Para P16-40 LTD that I am looking to convert, although I may sell it, not sure. Has two high caps that will work with the 10mm - 16 rounder and 21 rounder.

Rumor on the 1911 Colt forum is a new Colt 10mm, very possibly a commander style.

[MarkScottShow.US]

Forget the Glocks, Forget the Delta's (whimmpy boys), forget the Dan Wessons......


Find yourself a Springfield Omega 10mm 6" ported it comes with a poly barrel, they are 1911 types, strong as a sledge hammer, and accurate, very accurate - mine is a dream, looking for another.................

[Tamara]

Forget the Delta's (whimmpy boys)

:scrutiny:

I'm not clear on this...

[Nightcrawler]

6" 1911s look weird. And, being my only 10mm gun for the time being, I'd prefer something a bit more practically sized.

A 10mm revolver might be neat, but I already have a .41 Magnum. I'd just like to play with a bottomfeeder that has more oopmh than .45ACP can deliver (and is more available than .45 Super).

[Bren]

MarkScott, the Omega is cool but they are going for smoking crack prices! definatly a better collector value than a smokin crack priced Delta! :uhoh:

This one is yours NIB for $1325.

http://pix.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-02-24/kidbillions_1015020886_23$$$0007.jpg



Nightcrawler, take your time, they are out there and,,, cough cough cough, find a 40 pre II Kimber to covert. ;) Bren

[Nightcrawler]

But front cocking serrations 1911s are ICKY.

If I really want a 10mm, I'll probably break down and get a Witness. I already have a CZ-97 and am familiar with CZ-type firearms (the 97B actually takes Witness 45 mags).

The idea of a 15+1 10mm Automatic is appealing, but I don't know if I could ever bring myself to buy a Glock. They're so passe.

[Bren]

Yes, front serration suck! :uhoh:

A witness is only $320 and the ported ones are much less flippy. Get the "wonder finish", it sure is a good tough finish and I've had zero wear. The trigger sucks compaird to a 1911 though. Good luck, Bren

[Nightcrawler]

And yet...the G20 is appealing somehow. I think because of the amount of accessories for it, and the ease of finding holsters and such (something that's simply not the case with the Witness).

Still, we're talking six hundred bucks for the Glock. Awfully pricey.

[MarkScottShow.US]

My Crack at the Delta's was due to the early versions Quality problems. The Frame I believe had a slight cracking problem....I am sure fixed in later versions......

Omega's are $$ (as compared to what...), but worth every penny, after all, if you are going to shoot crap expect crappy results......<G>

[tiberius]

Do the Glocks bulge the brass like they do with .40's?

[JimC]

Do the Glocks bulge the brass like they do with .40's?

My G20C does with the OEM barrel but only with the hottest of my loads. The same loads in my 5.5" Bar-Sto barrel do not bulge as much.

This past Monday I fired my Colt Delta Elite for the first time. It was the first time for me and it. The hottest loads using Starline brass bulged the brass in that also. :(

[Sean Smith]

Forget the Glocks, Forget the Delta's (whimmpy boys), forget the Dan Wessons......

Find yourself a Springfield Omega 10mm 6" ported it comes with a poly barrel, they are 1911 types, strong as a sledge hammer, and accurate, very accurate - mine is a dream, looking for another.................

My Crack at the Delta's was due to the early versions Quality problems. The Frame I believe had a slight cracking problem....I am sure fixed in later versions......

The problem with the Delta was fundamental to the 1911 frame design itself, actually. It wasn't a QC problem, and anybody using an old-style 1911 frame to make a 10mm will have the same problem. Colt re-designed the frame by milling away the frame rail above the slide stop hole to prevent stress cracks.

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/10tech.html#delta

By the way, those Omegas are famous for being problematic guns... moreso than any Delta Elite ever was. If you want another one, good luck... you'll need it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~gnappi/10mmtips.htm#omega

It pays to actually know something about what you are talking about. ;)

[Tamara]

The main problems on Delta Elites (other than the insignificant framerail crack, a problem which it shared, ironically, with Star PD's) were related to Colt's er, iffy QC of the period. Apparently Colt got a deal on staking tools made of play-doh, and on a hard-recoiling gun like the Delta, this occasionally caused premature loosening or departure of staked-on parts, like the plunger tube.

Also, there was the lovely factory plastic guide rod. This is useful to show if a Delta Elite is really NIB or not; if it's not broken, the gun probably hasn't been shot. ;)

[JimC]

When I picked up my DE last week, the first items to go were the plastic guide rod w/the dual spring setup, plastic MS housing and yesterday, the plastic trigger. ;)

These parts were replaced with a Wilson FL guide rod, 22# Wolff spring, Wilson Ultra Light match trigger, Wilson Commander style hammer and a steel Colt flat MS housing. :D

I've owned a lot of GMs over the years in various calibers. This DE is one of the most accurate out of the box that I've ever owned. I was considering a Bar-Sto bbl. for it but not now, the Colt OEM shoots just fine for now.