[HANDLOADER]

I bought a set of lyman 38/357 mag dies the other day from the local ham radio repair man who had them donated to him to support our local repater group. But on the load data page it had data for both a 38 spl and a 357 mag. The 38 spl load was 7.0 grains of 2400 in the comment box it said it was the lowest the max was 10.0. I liked the 357 mag load so that will remain my little sercret.:neener::neener: But I was just wondering about this I have reloaded for the past 30 years and never used 2400 in my 38 spl. So i would realy like the help. I have a feeling that it is a unsafe load but just want to put it past everyone.

38 Special
CCI 550, 2400 7 grain-150 grain cast SWC - Lowest
CCI 550, 2400 10 grain, 150 grain cast SWC - MAX

[mkl]

2400 is not usually what one uses for a 38 Special, but its not inherently unsafe. For the 150 grain JHP or TMJ, the Speer #11 lists 10.3 grains of 2400 as a maximum +P load -- suggests starting at 9.0 grains.

No listing for lead bullets. Probably because it is too slow to give complete burn at the lower lead pressures. You'd probably end up with a really dirty barrel due to incomplete combustion.

Unique is a great 38 Special powder for lead bullets.

[rg1]

Much too slow powder for .38 Special. I think you'd get erratic velocities, a lot of unburnt powder, and possibly a blooper load with the powder actually not igniting fully. I wouldn't even recommend Blue Dot for .38 Special as I know for sure it's too slow as I've tried it and 2400 is even slower. All reloading manuals recommend fast to medium fast powders for .38's and my personal favorite is AA#2.

[.38 Special]

I've used it. It works. It leaves a lot of unburned powder, even at maximum pressures for the +P .38 loads.

If you have no other choice, use it. If you have any other choice, don't.

Have fun!

[.38 Special]

BTW, "2400 7 grain-150 grain cast SWC - Lowest" approaches or even enters +P territory, but should be safe in any sound gun.

"2400 10 grain, 150 grain cast SWC - MAX" puts you into .357 Magnum pressures, I believe. I don't want to be near anyone who touches one of these off in a gun chambered for .38 Special.

[fecmech]

BTW, "2400 7 grain-150 grain cast SWC - Lowest" approaches or even enters +P territory, but should be safe in any sound gun.

The Alliant powder guide lists 7.1 grs of 2400 with a 200 gr. bullet in the .38 spl at 17,500psi. The Lyman cast bullet handbook lists 9.7 grs of 2400 behind a 168 gr cast as a start magnum load showing 15,900 cup with an oal only .016" longer than the same bullet in a 38 spl case. IMO 10 grs of 2400 behind a 150 gr. bullet is a long way from dangerous in a .38 spl. That said the load is dirty with much unburned powder that can and will get under the extactor star on a DA revolver and tie it up. There are much better choices for loading .38 specials.

[.38 Special]

IMO 10 grs of 2400 behind a 150 gr. bullet is a long way from dangerous in a .38 spl.
It's essentially a .357 load, at least if laid up in a .38 case.

Lots of folks have gotten away with .357 pressures in the .38 Special. Keith got away with 12 grains of 2400 in N-frames. But a few haven't -- and most .38s aren't N-frames.

As always, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is still that I don't want to be around people who are shooting .38s loaded to .357 pressure.

[Clark]

"Speer 6" 1964 38 s&w special 160 gr soft point 11 gr 2400
"Speer 6" 1964 357 mag 160 gr soft point 15 gr 2400

Midway "Loadmap" 1999 357 mag Speer 160 gr soft point 10.9 gr 2400


What does it all mean?
The dumbing down of load books makes the 357 mag lower than the old 38 sp.

[.38 Special]

Well, if anyone here has a pressure barrel and can load up some 10 grains 2400/150 grain SWC loads in the .38 case and fire them, we can put the matter to rest. Until then, I'll stick with published loads from major manufacturers, "dumbed down" or not.

[Jim Watson]

About 1960 the NRA had some .38 Special loads tested by H.P. White:

160 gr Speer half jacket + 11.0 gr 2400 = 1043 fps 17230 psi*

Lyman then showed
160 gr Speer half jacket + 10.8 gr 2400 = 985 fps in a K38.

*Crusher gauge calibrated dead weight or hydraulic. Would be shown as C.U.P. now.

I don't see the problem.

[Bullet]

Alliant doesn’t list 2400 for 38 Specials in their online reloaders guide. If Alliant doesn’t list data for 38 Specials using 2400 there probably is a reason.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm


.

[hoptob]

Thought 2400 was one of Keith's favorite powders in 38 special...

Mike

[.38 Special]

Keith and others were using 2400 in the .38-44, basically creating magnum loads in the Special case. This still works today, in the appropriate guns. I'm just not sure why anyone would do it, unless they just enjoy cleaning chambers.

I imagine Alliant doesn't list 2400 for the Special not because it isn't safe, but because the powder doesn't burn well at Special pressures. As noted, they do provide a +P load for the heaviest bullet available, which ought to tell folks what they need to know in regards to 2400.

I'm sure you could get .38s loaded with Reloader 19 to go bang too, but...

[Crazy4nitro]

If I could only have One powder...it would be 2400

'Nitro

[fecmech]

Alliant doesn’t list 2400 for 38 Specials in their online reloaders guide. If Alliant doesn’t list data for 38 Specials using 2400 there probably is a reason.

Try this.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?title=Pistols+and+Revolvers&gtypeid=1&weight=200&shellid=1018&bulletid=49&bdid=640

[zxcvbob]

2400 will work OK with very heavy bullets (180's and 200's), but there are better choices. Pick something a little faster, like Unique or Herco. (unless you are trying to duplicate .38-44HV loads, then use Blue Dot, 2400, W296, Lil'Gun, 800X, etc.)

A .38-44HV fired in a .38 Special gun can easily damage it, or even turn it into a hand grenade if it has a weak chamber.

[Bullet]

fecmech

Your link is to 38 Special +P’s not 38 Specials.

[ArchAngelCD]

Oh come on, 2400 is safe in the .38 Special. You have been brain washed into thinking all the old loads are unsafe when they aren't. I just got a hold of a 1995 Hercules reloading manual and there are loads in it using 2400 for the .38 Special and .38 Special +P. Of course they are missing from the 2005 Alliant book but they shouldn't be. The only load left in the 2005 Alliant book is for a 200gr LRN bullet and the charge is the same in both books. The data is also the same for all the loads using Blue Dot in both books so I'm sure the .38 Special data in the 1995 manual is valid. None of the pressures listed for the .38 Special are above 16,000 psi and none of the pressures lister for the .38 Special +P are over 17,500 psi. With pressures like that there's room on the top end of all the charges for plenty of safety, even at the new SAAMI pressure limits.

[.38 Special]

Nobody's saying 2400 isn't safe in the .38. Some of us are just of the opinion that 10 grains of it exceeds SAAMI specs by a significant amount, which can accelerate wear on a strong .38 and create excitement with a weaker one.

Of course, the charge can be reduced to stay within SAAMI specs, but then you are using a powder with a reputation for poor burning characteristics at lower pressures.

So the short version is that yes, it will work, but will leave a mess until you exceed appropriate pressures for the .38 Special.

HTH!

[Kosh75287]

It seems that there were a few guys in my shooting circle who were using Alliant 2400 in .38 Special for bullets weighing 158 grains and up. One of them shoots such loads from an 8 3/8" k-38, which explains his interest in a slower burning powder. I've YET to explain why he wants to shoot heavier loads from such a wonderful old pistol, but oh well....
I DO know that there's no mistaking his marksmanship. He's hit targets with that revolver while standing that I wouldn't have tried without a rifle and a rest. I think this probably has a lot to do with shooting the same piece almost all the time.

[ArchAngelCD]

I think this probably has a lot to do with shooting the same piece almost all the time.
I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "Beware of the man with only 1 gun, he probably shoots it very well!"

[Trumpetman]

On page 367 of Speer Manual #8 there is a special section entitled "Defense Loads in 2" Barrel .38 Special Revolvers." It gives a recipe of 10.5 grains of 2400 behind a 158 grain "Speer SP" bullet, using a CCI 550 primer. The velocity, which is taken from an actual snub-nosed .38, is listed as 919 ft/sec at the muzzle. The maximum 2400 powder load for this bullet is listed on page 366 as 11.5 grains. There is a warning against using this load in a light aluminum or alloy gun.

I use 9.4 grains of 2400 behind a Speer SWCHP as my defense practice bullet. I have fired several hundred rounds (10 rounds at a time) using 10.4 grains of 2400 behind this same bullet. I can get 10 shots off without leading, so that's all I shoot in one session, usually just before I sign out at the range. When fired from a 24 ounce all-steel Rossi .38 special, it is very controlable, feeling a bit hotter than factory Federal FBI loads, which is what I normally carry. My load shoots to the same POI as the factory Feds.

Beware! This 2400 load is very smokey and flashy.

[Ben Shepherd]

2400 will work in 38 special. BUT: It will be VERY dirty burning at anything lower than a top end +p load. It does not like low pressures.

As for the speer #8 manual- I have one, and do use data from it as a reference from time to time... However: It's nickname is "the blow-up manual". And for good reason.

You can try 2400 in 38 but I'd recommend a magnum primer and a very firm crimp. It will also help if your expander die is on the small side of spec for good neck tension. Just remember to start from the bottom and work up. If you're firing it in a 357, you can push the envelope a bit. If you do, don't EVER screw up and put them in a gun that was chambered for 38 special.

[rcmodel]

+1 to what Ben Shepherd said.

2400 works great in .38 Spl cases with max loads & heavy bullets in strong guns with long barrels.

It is possible to load it to low end .357 performance in Colt SAA & New Service, Ruger Blackhawks, & N-frame S&W's.

Skeeter Skelton was very fond of 13.5 grains & the Lyman 358156 155 grain bullet, crimped in the second groove for more case capacity.
This is far in excess of standard pressure, and not for small or medium frame .38's.

However, 2400 is terrible for reduced loads in 2" guns, or with light bullets.

Almost anything will work far better.

rcmodel

[Ben Shepherd]

Yeah, I forgot that part. 140 grain would be the absolute minimum slug weight. (Don't use those soft 148 target wadcutters. They're too soft and will lead like crazy with a heavy dose of 2400 behind them).

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

So i would realy like the help. I have a feeling that it is a unsafe load but just want to put it past everyone.

As most everyone has said, it is not unsafe. OTOH, why not reserve your 2400 for full magnum loads and just use economical Titegroup, Bullseye, W231 or 700X for 38 spcl. They are cleaner and probably more accurate than 2400.

[Trumpetman]

Amen to everything you said, Ben. My 10.4 grain load was worked up from somewhere under 9.0 grains of 2400. It was very unpredictable at the sub-9.0 level, and left unburnt powder in the barrel as well as the star extractor.

At 9.4 grains, it was getting better, and then much better when I used a modest amount of pressure with a 9MM Lee Factory Crimp Die before finalizing the crimp with a .38 Special crimp die. The 10.4 grain load is more consistent, but it's also a real handful to hold onto and develops leading in the bore quicker than with the 9.4 grain load.

Also, my loads use a Speer SWC HP lead bullet, which SHOULD generate less pressure per velocity than the original Speer SP bullet used in the #8 manual. I do not recommend this load. I offer it only as information. However, I like it and will continue to use it for defense practice.

[Trumpetman]

Easyrider, I agree with you about .38 Special accuracy, especially when it comes to Bullseye and 700X. They are great in just about every .38 Special situation I can think of.

I was very surprised to find out that a slow powder like 2400 can generate so much velocity with a 158 grain bullet through a 2" barrel. That doesn't mean 2400 is accurate in .38 Special loadings, though. My 2400 defense load is only good at short distances. I do use 2400 for heavy hunting loads in a 4" .357 Magnum gun with good success, but I use Bullseye for medium .357 Magnum loads too.

[dagger dog]

The first rounds I reloaded were for a Ruger Service Six in three fifty seven caliber the loader was a Lee loader, the one you pound with a hammer, the load data for it with the supplied dipper was 11.5 gr Hercules 2400 under a 158 gr semi wad cutter.

I know the data was anemic for Lees sake but, I don't know how It fairs in the 38 special, 10 gr may be a little hot with 150 gr bullet.

[kostner]

In his book 'Good Friend Good Guns Good Whiskey' Skeeter claims that using 38 special cases and loading them with 13.5 grains of 2400 in a 357 he has take eveerything from turkeys to deer. being very accurate and with a velocity 1200-1300 fps.

[zxcvbob]

In his book 'Good Friend Good Guns Good Whiskey' Skeeter claims that using 38 special cases and loading them with 13.5 grains of 2400 in a 357 he has take eveerything from turkeys to deer. being very accurate and with a velocity 1200-1300 fps.

Lately I've been using 10.0 grains of AA#7 in .38 Special brass or 11.0 grains in .357 Magnum brass with 158 grain SWC's. Warning! do not accidently shoot these in a .38 Special. They are accurate, leading is much less than with similar loads using Blue Dot, and the recoil feels about the same as S&B brand .357 factory ammo with 158 grain JSP's. The cases fall out of the chambers easily.

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

Skeeter Skelton and 2400
In his book 'Good Friend Good Guns Good Whiskey' Skeeter claims that using 38 special cases and loading them with 13.5 grains of 2400 in a 357 he has take eveerything from turkeys to deer. being very accurate and with a velocity 1200-1300 fps.

kostner, looks pretty much .357 magnum territory doesn't it?

Trumpetman, Bullseye and 700X in .38 spl is indeed accurate. I currently load 4.3 grains 700X under 158 grain Lee TL SWC sized to .357, LLA lubed and get 1,000 fps from 6" 686 with almost zero leading. Normal looking primers and easy extraction as usual. 4" inch groups at 50 meters. Sorry if I'm OT.

[jaholder1971]

I bought a set of lyman 38/357 mag dies the other day from the local ham radio repair man who had them donated to him to support our local repater group.

Guns and Ham Radio! Gotta love it.


73,
N0OFG

[Ben Shepherd]

Trumpetman-Check your PMs.

[Trumpetman]

I've found that Bullseye, 700x, Herco, and 2400 are much more versatile than the current manuals would lead you to believe. I've used all four powders for a variety of loadings from .38 special to shotgun loads, with each powder excelling at a different level. (Don't punish me for using Bullseye in light 12 target loads. I got the recipe straight from an Alliant employee.)

700x and Herco are the only two of these powders I would atually recommend for shotgunning, and I always stay spot-on with the published data. I have used Herco and 2400 for heavy 20 gauge hunting shells, but they are not so good for run-of-the-mill medium and light target and field loads. There are much better powders out there for shotgunners to use, but the point is -- these four powders are more versatile than we might think. A long talk with the old timers at the range where I shoot verified that these powders, and many others, have been used for a great variety of metalic and shotshell loads in times past. A glance through some antique reloading manuals will verify this.