[357to44]

It’s a common procedure for police to take a gun as “material evidence” after any, including defensive, shooting. The crime victim becomes defenseless for a long time – unless he buys another one. What would be a legitimate way to secure the weapon from being taken away after it has been used for self-defense?

[4v50 Gary]

Happens all the time. You lose your weapon while it is held as evidence. You get it back after you're cleared of any wrongdoing by the police or district attorney. That's why I always advocate for low cost "work" guns instead of high priced "tactical" trophies for self defense. Why use a Colt 1911 with a lot of custom work when you could use a factory Ruger or S&W? Granted that you may not always be able to grab what's the cheapest at hand, but you should try not to use the best (in terms of price) for the worse (people).

[Chris Rhines]

I don't think that there is one, at least not one that works 100% of the time.

I'd just assume that any firearm used for self-defense is gone, regardless of the final outcome. Have multiple copies of your guns.

- Chris

[WT]

Until they sort things out, they may take ALL your guns. Sometimes what appears to be a case of self defense really turns out to be murder.

[357to44]

You get it back after you're cleared of any wrongdoing by the police or district attorney. Not until the end of civil process that might follow?Until they sort things out, they may take ALL your guns. Would it be leagal to quickly send away those other guns -- as they are not shooting related -- before they disappear in the "black hole"? Of course, one would hardly have enough time to do it;)

[Aikibiker]

My suggestion would be to become known as a friendly person to the department and good citizen. Things like volunteering at your local department or going on a ride-along can go a long way to forming a positive relationship with the police.

Look into a citizen's patrol program with your department. Lot's of local agencies up to the level of county Sheriff are implementing these programs. You will generally be able to set your own patrol times and duration. And as a bonus I guarantee you will learn some interesting things about the town you live in, even if you have been there your whole life.

It may not help if taking your gun as evidence is an official procedure they have to follow, but if the officer that answers the call knows you as a good person it will sure make the immediate aftermath of a shooting easier.



You could also buy another gun ahead of time and put it away. Just in case. (sounds like a good excuse to get another one, anyway)

[Chris Rhines]

Until they sort things out, they may take ALL your guns. Sometimes what appears to be a case of self defense really turns out to be murder. Addendum to my above post: Have multiple copies of your guns, and keep at least one stored off-site.

- Chris

[C.R.Sam]

Redundancy of important things is a good thing.

Sam

[El Tejon]

357, it depends (doesn't it always). It depends on what kind of shooting; there are many.

In many self-defense cases, it will be abundantly self-evident that it was blackletter self-defense. In those kinds of cases I worked, the police did not even take the weapon.

In accidental/negligent cases, it will be taken until the PA makes a determination between recklessness and negligence. This may take a long time. In one case I know our PA has held onto a pistol for years.

In claimed self-defense, it will be taken as well as any other weapons.

In seemingly criminal shootings, it will be taken as well as any other weapons.

Since you read THR you know that you should: 1. not become involved in a shooting; 2. have multiple copies of the same weapon.

[Standing Wolf]

Until they sort things out, they may take ALL your guns.

Oh, gosh! What other guns?

[huntsman]

quote:
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Until they sort things out, they may take ALL your guns.
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you mean if I pop a perp with my GP the LEO's are taking my bird guns ?

quote:
Have multiple copies of your guns, and keep at least one stored off-site.

that's fine if your taking a few cheaper guns , but how many guys can afford to buy duplicate o/u or sxs's or quality rifles over $1000. just to have in case of confiscation ? and store off site ? I just raised my insurance rider to cover new purchases, storing somewere else doesn't make sense.

If LEO's take everything I might as well sell everything, buy a few cheap shotguns because the BG will have won, might as well just let them steal everything.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

My Glock 30, six rounds of Federal HydraShock .45, and a Galco PLE paddle holster are STILL being held by PD from the incident I was involved in back in July 1999.

The trial has been over (the mutt was convicted of 13 out of 14 felonies; he eligible for parole in 48 years.) for about two years now; I askes the DA when I could get my gear back. He said that the mutt still has appeals pending so he doesn't want to release any evidence. Rats.

Best part of that extremely bad night was that one of the crime scene investigators was an officer I knew pretty well. After I went through the shooting with the detectives, this one officer pulled me aside and asked me if I had a spare handgun- and if not he'd loan me one. That was so cool.

I had a spare Glock though.

[WonderNine]

Have money in your bank account so that you can BUY another gun should the police take all your guns. This would be most likely in a self defense shooting in the home, but not as likely in one that took place outside of the home.

[jimpeel]

There was a famous case wherein a woman had an restraining order (RO) against her husband. He showed up at her home and she threw down on him and called the PD. When they got there, the police arrested him and, since the address they were at was also his address of record, they confiscated the firearm from her as the home was to be firearm free per the RO.

Two days later, he returned and shot her and himself to death in the back yard in front of their children.

The firearm doesn’t necessarily have to be fired to be confiscated.

[TheeBadOne]

After I went through the shooting with the detectives, this one officer pulled me aside and asked me if I had a spare handgun- and if not he'd loan me one. That was so cool.
Cool!:cool:

[Chris Rhines]

you mean if I pop a perp with my GP the LEO's are taking my bird guns ? It can happen. It has happened before.

that's fine if your taking a few cheaper guns , but how many guys can afford to buy duplicate o/u or sxs's or quality rifles over $1000. just to have in case of confiscation ? It all depends on how serious you are about personal protection. I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I've managed to pick up spares for my defensive guns. Having spare guns also comes in handy if your primary gun breaks - and don't kid yourself, any gun can break.

Also, I'm speaking strictly of defensive guns. Hunting and sporting guns are toys, and are not as critical to your immediate well-being (so says the guy who's shopping for a second Pardini...)

I just raised my insurance rider to cover new purchases, storing somewere else doesn't make sense. It makes a lot of sense if you run afoul of an anti-gun cop, DA, or what-have-you. Storing a gun or two offsite also makes good sense if you get hit by burglars.

If LEO's take everything I might as well sell everything, buy a few cheap shotguns because the BG will have won, might as well just let them steal everything. Hey, I'm not going to tell you (or anyone else) how to live their lives. But right or wrong, you stand a fair chance of losing your gun after using it for self-defense, and it makes sense to keep that fact in mind. That's all I'm saying.

- Chris

[huntsman]

chris, I could understand the LEO's taking the handgun used.

but clean out the whole gun safe just because they don't think we should own guns or "just in case" or whatever the reason would be ,smacks of storm trooper tactics. I'd hope they could tell at the scene the differance between a handgun or shotgun wound.

I shudder to think of some of my("TOY") guns slowly rusting or getting banged & scratched up in some evidence locker while the bureaucracy slows grinds along especialy if your exhonorated.

As for buying another defensive handgun that's ok , I'd say that's why I use a KGP for home protection instead of my hunting super redhawk.

[Carlos]

If need be, bye bye one gun, but nobody gets Carte Blanche to search my house to find other guns, and I won't be volunteering any information.

[Chris Rhines]

but clean out the whole gun safe just because they don't think we should own guns or "just in case" or whatever the reason would be ,smacks of storm trooper tactics. Smacks of them? Heck, I'd say it positively defines storm trooper tactics. Don't get me wrong; I don't approve of the police taking possession of anyone's guns. But if they decide to, there's not a whole lot you can do right then.

So, like the Boy Scouts - Be Prepared.

As for buying another defensive handgun that's ok , I'd say that's why I use a KGP for home protection instead of my hunting super redhawk. Good choice. Now go get a second one, same make and model. And keep an eye out for a third KGP that you can buy in a private transaction, no records*. That's the one to keep offsite.

Paranoid? You bet! ;)

* - I'm assuming that private firearms transactions are legal in your area.

[brownie0486]

LE may decide to take the ccw permit until it is all figured out as well. In my state, it's almost a given the permit is surrendered until the outcome has been decided and you are cleared.

If they take the permit and gun at the scene, rest assured they will then be at the home to take the rest as your permit has been rescinded until cleared meaning you no longer have the necessary permit to keep them.

There's no JBT about that action at all huntsman, why would you even make the statement until you had asked the question and then perhaps didn't like the answer.

Brownie

[Dorrin79]

If they take the permit and gun at the scene, rest assured they will then be at the home to take the rest as your permit has been rescinded until cleared meaning you no longer have the necessary permit to keep them.

Brownie - keep in mind most states don't require a permit to merely own guns. I understand MA is an exception, but the police would have a pretty flimsy pretense in, say, Texas, to confiscate all of my guns because one was used in an 'incident'

[El Tejon]

Dorrin, it depends.:D If you are arrested for using a deadly weapon against a fellow human being, then most likely a condition of your bond, if you allowed bond, will be that you not possess firearms or ammunition. Or, in the alternative, the search warrant that the Texicano magistrate signs may be to grab up all your guns and ammo. I've seen it a lot of ways, many variables.

Chris Rhines has been sneaking out at night reading books or something.:scrutiny:

[Dorrin79]

El T-

that sucks!

Would this confiscation be for the period up until the Grand Jury returns a no-bill? (we're assuming a 'good shoot' here that is recognized as such by the authorities). Or for some longer, indeterminate period?

[brownie0486]

Dorrin79 :

In my state you would be entitled to get them back if it was deemed righteous self defense and no charges were pending against your actions.

Brownie

[Gordon]

Maybe on my ranch the best thing would be , after the inside attacker had expired, would be to fire up the old back hoe ! After all I thought it went thru courts that police NEED NOT RESPOND OR HAVE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT . :evil:

[Edward429451]

Yeah it sucks, but thats what they do.

One thing you should do in this instance, is to politely insist on a receipt for your weapon. Don't take no for an answer.

My understanding is also that departments go through the confiscated guns and dispose of them every so often, at least the closed case ones. In colorado, it actually takes a "Order to Preserve Property" from the court to make them liable to preserve your weapon. You could call up and say, case is over, when can I pick up my gun? "I'm sorry sir, your weapon has been disposed of."

They had some of my guns for awhile and when I called up to ask about picking them up, thats what they told me. At one point they said they had no record of ever having them! I strolled down there and showed them my copy of the order to preserve, and lo and behold, they found my guns. How bout that!

They're not obligated to keep them for your pickup unless they're under court order to do so. YMMV.

[willyjixx]

a few things you an expect when you get your weapon back.

1. you are not going to get your rounds back. they will be disposed of

2. your weapon will be dissasembled. and not always by someone who knows what they are doing or cares.

3. it seems they always put them in brown paper bags????

4. check your serial numbers!!! an bitching about scratches and dings falls on deaf ears.

---------ive had to recover 2. 1 rifle and 1 pistol. a friend of mine had to recover his pistol back from the DA an lost his hi-cap mag

[huntsman]

wow the longer this thread, the worse I feel. I guess I was nieve to expect decent treatment from the LAW ,I realize that they have procedures to follow and thier job is to close a case, but it sounds like we have already lost the right to KEEP & BEAR ARMS .

[Blackhawk]

357to44,Not until the end of civil process that might follow?"Evidence" isn't routinely kept by authorities in civil matters. They're not supposed to be involved.

[Carlos Cabeza]

At one point they said they had no record of ever having them! I strolled down there and showed them my copy of the order to preserve, and lo and behold, they found my guns. How bout that!

:cool: Talk about the needle in the haystack !
I got my S&W back after six months. Brown paper bag, blood still all over the gun (mine) and magazine had the remaining five rounds in it.

Not a SD shooting but a late night home invasion where I didn't quite have enough time to "clear leather" before getting the blunt trauma to the head treatment. Called the cops and they caught the two men and recovered the weapon. I told them I didn't care about an ambulance, JUST RECOVER THAT WEAPON ! I didn't want some BG's running around doin' bad stuff with MY gun.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Damn Carlos; even in the short version, that sounds like a nasty situation. Glad you got your firearm back in a timely manner.

Like I said in my previous post, my G30 is still in evidence lock-up. From 1999 to 2001 was for the trial. 2001 to who knows when is due to the fact that the BG still has (futile) appeals pending and the prosecuting ADA wants to hold on to all the physical evidence until they are all run out. He doesn't (and I agree) there to be any chance, due to lack of evidence, that the mutt I shot will EVER get out of prison.

Shortly after the shooting, I replaced the Glock 30 with another G30; identical holster and night sights. (What the heck? It worked just fine for me once...why mess with a good thing?) But someday I'll get the original back.

[357to44]

Would it be legal to quickly send away those other guns -- as they are not shooting related -- before they disappear in the "black hole"? (Of course, one would hardly have enough time to do it.) There were many valuable posts in this thread but no one elaborated on my question quoted above.

[LiquidTension]

357 - After the call to 911 and the call to a lawyer, call your shooting buddy or family or whatever and arrange for your firearms to be "sold" IMMEDIATELY. Get a receipt for a penny if you have to, just to prove that they were sold and not hidden. I don't know how legal it is, but if the cops show up at your house and there aren't any guns there, I don't think they'd be able to get a search warrant for someone else's house just because your guns "might" be there. El Tejon is probably the person to answer this though, I'm not a lawyer.

"We have to confiscate all of your guns."
"Guns? I only have one, and you've already taken it."

Hey, it would be the truth.

[brownie0486]

I keep several types of arms at friends safes.

I also reciprocate to them.

Brownie

[Joe Demko]

I know a pretty fair number of cops who possess guns that were, at one time, evidence or otherwise seized. Officially, said guns are listed as destroyed.
Likewise, I know several cops who possess weapons that they informally seized from convicted felons, parolees, and others barred from possessing arms. Those folks weren't really in a position to go and complain to the chief, now were they?
Bottom line, I recommend you have something in the plain vanilla, comparatively inexpensive class to use for self-defense. Don't use something too kewl, or the po-po have that much more incentive to keep it, because they may want it for themselves.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Quartebore, Yeah thats the short version, someday I'll feel like discussing it further with THR members. I was surprised when the local Law enforcement agency showed in less than ten minutes. That is the only way I feel they were able to catch the two BG's. Even at 2/3 ish am. I was able to keep my head somewhat and noticed they were on foot and the direction they were heading. Sorry, didn't mean to Hijack the thread.................;)

[Baba Louie]

357to44

Legal you ask?

Should said righteous shooting occur at your home and the po-po arrive on scene... buddy you're probably gonna see all of the evidence walk out the door if they don't already have you cuffed and stuffed.

Receipt you requested?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, cause all of the officers I've ever known are good guys and I doubt they'd play games with your head if it was a clear cut no nonsense act of self defense.

"Talk to me Mr 357to44 and don't gimme that talk to my lawyer stuff, just tell me what happened and I'll see if I can get you a receipt."

Police do not have to tell you the truth, that onus is on you, not them.

Maybe your wife could insist on a receipt of items taken for evidence.

You live alone? Hmmm.

You have a list of your weapons doncha... somewhere for safe keeping?

Maybe photos as well? Purchase receipts? A clear paper trail for what was in your safe, so's your legal beagle can keep track of things whilst you are busy downtown.

Should said shooting take place elsewhere, say your place of work... you make the 911 call, your lawyer call, and maybe a friend, brother, cousin, etc to notify them of what happened (not necessarily in the order written, but none-the-less, you make the calls) and say your friend, brother, cousin, etc. go to your house (they have a key right? and know the combination to your safe, right?) and start trucking the "Arsenal" out to their car trunk... quickly, I believe you said.

What's wrong with that picture?

Especially if the local gendarms send a car to your place of residence with a warrant (or not) and they show up whilst said transfer is occurring... or one of your neighbors calls in some suspicious activity at 1234 Elm st (guys taking guns from house to car...not good old 357to44 our neighbor)... hmmmm.

You want to place them in jeopardy?

Now, if you are married, maybe the little missus could stash something somewhere for you but she's probably going to be freaking out a bit after your call, doncha think.

Safe deposit box at the bank?
Attic?
Basement?
Back yard cache?
Shootin buddy?
Mom or Dad's house?

Your call.

What's the proper legal answer?... Ask your attorney, I do not really know. All of the above were pointed out to me by a Cop in a citizen's police academy class I took a few years back when I raised the same question, because it was pointed out in my CCW class that this will more than likely occur should you be involved in any type of shooting.

I know where my spare firearm(s) is/are kept. Where DO you keep YOUR backup piece?

Boy Scout motto? Be Prepared.

Adios

[357to44]

Thank you for the animated story... :uhoh:A lot to do to "get prepared". Previously, my concern was only about positioning the guns strategically in the house.