[Mark Tyson]

HOME INVASION FEAR ESCALATES HUNDREDS GO TO TURLOCK MEETING; SIMILAR CRIME OCCURS IN MODESTO

Copyright 2003 McClatchy Newspapers, Inc.

Modesto Bee

August 22, 2003, Friday, ALL EDITIONS

The fear of home invasions multiplied Thursday, as Modesto police dealt with an early morning attack and close to 300 people gathered in Turlock for a meeting with high-ranking sheriff's officers.

The Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department has logged 13 home invasion robberies this year around Turlock, Keyes and Ceres -- including four between Aug. 8 and Aug. 15. Others have occurred in northern Merced County.

Turlock, Ceres and Modesto police are investigating similar crimes. The latest, at about 1 a.m. Thursday, did not result in any injuries, Modesto police reported.


The home invasions in county territory have produced severe beatings, sexual assaults and gunshot wounds, sheriff's spokesman Tom Letras said.

Rural residents have stepped forward with a reward fund -- amounting to $2,100 as of Thursday afternoon -- and are pressing the Sheriff's Department for answers.

Hundreds of people drove into Turlock for Thursday night's outdoor meeting, held under a cloudy sky at Roselawn High School.

"There are many nights when I'm home alone with my children that I'm scared to death," 40-year-old Reta Sanden told sheriff's officials.

Many in the crowd expressed frustration with the Sheriff's Department for not getting the word out sooner about the string of attacks.

The department did not disclose the crime wave until last week, and Assistant Sheriff Richard Bre-shears responded that officials kept the lid on to keep people from panicking.

His audience pressed him for details: Are there suspects? Is there one group responsible for the robberies? Are there any leads?

He said there are no leads that would result in imminent arrests.

Sheriff's officials declared that the investigation is a top prior-ity, but offered few details.

"The robberies have become increasingly violent, and it's very important that we get these crimes solved before someone is murdered," Lt. Jim Silva said Thursday afternoon. "Somebody out there knows who is doing this and needs to call us."

A husband and wife at Thursday night's meeting described an invasion at their house. They said the robbers kicked down the front door in 3 seconds, announced that they were Turlock police and soon had flashlights in their victims' faces.

The woman said she declared that she did not think the intruders were police, and she yelled for someone to call 911. In return, she said: "I got punched."

She advised people to "comply and do what they want -- no piece of jewelry is worth your life."

Others said baloney and indicated that they are armed and willing to shoot. A Turlock Irrigation District employee cautioned people to beware that ditch tenders such as himself are working at night -- and he hoped that none of them will be shot by accident.

One man said he had strung fishing line in the yard around his house, to guard against intruders, and another man suggested a moat with alligators.

Breshears advised people to have a plan for escaping if they hear someone breaking into their house.

Most of the home invasion robberies have happened between midnight and 6 a.m. And while many of the crimes have similarities, sheriff's investigators have stopped short of saying the invasions are the work of one crew.

A Modesto police investigator, however, gave some hints when he reported that Thursday morning's home invasion in his jurisdiction did not appear to be connected to the other robberies.

"Right now, it doesn't look like it's the same crew," Detective Sgt. Al Carter said. "They didn't kick in the door. They didn't bring flex ties (to tie up victims), they just used tape they found in the garage. And they didn't hurt anybody."

It happened about 1 a.m. on Miller Avenue, just off El Vista Avenue between Scenic Drive and Yosemite Boulevard north of Modesto Airport.

Police said two gunmen ducked under a partially open garage door and confronted four men who were playing darts. A third robber stood guard outside.

The robbers used clear plastic packing tape to bind the men's hands and legs, Sgt. Craig Plante said. They took wallets, jewelry and other property from the victims, then ransacked the house.

The gang also escaped with an unknown amount of cash from a safe.

The Stanislaus County Farm Bureau is administering the reward fund, to be paid for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those involved in the robberies. People wishing to contribute can call 522-7278.

Sheriff's investigators ask anyone with information about the home invasion robberies to call 525-7074.

Bee staff writer Ty Phillips can be reached at 578-2331 or tphillips@ modbee.com.

[Chipperman]

This is just pathetic. :barf:

"There are many nights when I'm home alone with my children that I'm scared to death," 40-year-old Reta Sanden told sheriff's officials.

She advised people to "comply and do what they want -- no piece of jewelry is worth your life."

Breshears advised people to have a plan for escaping if they hear someone breaking into their house.


The cops don't even give a thought about someone's right to defend themselves, nevermind their property.

These people have it right: "Others said baloney and indicated that they are armed and willing to shoot."

The crimes are becoming increasingly violent, but just do what they want?
Yeah right. :cuss:

[Zundfolge]

A husband and wife at Thursday night's meeting described an invasion at their house. They said the robbers kicked down the front door in 3 seconds, announced that they were Turlock police and soon had flashlights in their victims' faces.

This is one of the biggest "unintended concequences" of police state tactics like the "no knock warrant".

I'm not a criminal, so there should never be enough "evidence" to warrant a "no-knock warrant" served at my home, so if some cops screw up and get the wrong house I'll probably die (and unfortinately probably take some of the "good guys" with me). :(

[QuickDraw]

Others said baloney and indicated that they are armed and willing to shoot.

My sentiments exactly!!

QuickDraw

[Keith]

One man said he had strung fishing line in the yard around his house, to guard against intruders,

Do you suppose this guy also voted for Feinstein?

Keith

[longtom4570]

Unless the guy had the fishing line hooked up to something:D (BOOM)

[Moparmike]

Actually, it sounds like a good idea when used in the correct fashion. I could see it as a "Make-them-trip-and-make-noise" sort of thing, to alert me to get my shotgun.

I would have to think of a way to have the fishing line pop-up at night, in a "Home Alone" type of fashion. It might actually work. Too bad I couldnt string hooks on it, as it would be seen as a booby-trap.

[TheFederalistWeasel]

This is one of the biggest "unintended concequences" of police state tactics like the "no knock warrant".

I'm not a criminal, so there should never be enough "evidence" to warrant a "no-knock warrant" served at my home, so if some cops screw up and get the wrong house I'll probably die (and unfortinately probably take some of the "good guys" with me).

I agree with you 100%

I spent 5 years in Local LE now I’ve moved on up the food chain. Where I live the main city/county is going to hell in a hand basket and having a drastic effect on border counties.

Our local multi-jurisdictional drug squad is in over drive and not a day goes by I don’t hear from a LEO buddy, co-worker or another about them “taking one down”.

They also make mistakes, but fortunately not the wrong house, yet…

Although they came close once and they have dragged the wrong guys out of vehicles more than once.

We had, about four years ago several copycat home invasions where the perps pulled a police style no knock raid and I said it then,

I have nothing in my background or in my day-to-day life, which would require the presents of a SWAT Team making a dynamic entry upon my residence. At worst a Local LEO would knock on my door and when I answered gripe about my driving. Which isn’t gonna happen, so if I’m ever in such a situation, so help us God.

Good people are gonna die, because I ain’t taking no chances that these guys in black MIGHT be on my side.

Fed

[Browns Fan]

Amen to what Chipperman said.


"Breshears advised people to have a plan for escaping if they hear someone breaking into their house."

These guys are sheeple setting themselves up as easy targets/victims. It's about as unamerican as it gets.

:scrutiny:

[JohnKSa]

If someone kicks down a door, I'm going to start shooting--3 seconds is plenty of warning. They may get me, but IMO, that's infinitely preferable to being a prisoner in my own house.

[Standing Wolf]

Others said baloney and indicated that they are armed and willing to shoot.

Baloney!

[Frohickey]

Moat with alligators?

Not gonna happen. The county will not give you a building permit for a moat, and the animal rights activists sure won't buy in to alligators eating non-FDA approved criminals.

:D

[dinosaur]

Er, uh, hmmm. Why would the county ditch diggers be breaking through someone`s front door day or night?:confused: What`s he trying to say here?:uhoh:

[erikm]

The fishing line setup is actually a good idea, provided you have something to back it up. Hook the line to a flashbulb or trip-flare (if legal) or something that makes plenty of noise. One of those compressed air horns should be plenty. If you want to be cagy, have the lines turn on a bank of webcams, your alarmclock and (on a delay) all exterior lighting. Smile, you're on candid camera! :D

Just remember to have the guns (shotgun w/ birdshot; pistol) stored in a quick-access quick-load manner and don't shoot them until they break down the door. We wouldn't want to be charged with manslaughter, murder or lieing in wait for providing a community service, now would we? :D

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[0007]

Replace the fishing line with 100lb steel leader or razor-wire wrapped on 1/2" sticks of buried re-bar sticking up about 6". Run it like tangle-foot about two feet out from the house. 'Course nothing will keep them from coming up to the front door and breaking it down unless you go with a re-enforced metal door and extra dead bolts on the hinge-side. OR just buy a shotgun and keep it loaded with slugs. :evil:

[geekWithA.45]

If you've got a natural choke point, like a hallway or foyer, you might consider weaving a man net of aircraft cables between 2 2x4's, which can be locked to lugs installed into studs in the ceiling/walls. You can set it to one side during the day, or make it disappear completely when company comes calling.



That'd slow em down, and buy you the 5 seconds you need to bring an effective defensive tool into play. :evil:

[atek3]

Really Scary post Zundfolge, I agree 100% but still scary.

The worse would be the aftermath.

"Suspected drug-dealer Zundfolge was killed in a hail of gunfire early tuesday morning when the local Narcotics team served a lawful warrant at his address. He reportedly opened fire on the police with his (insert evil gun here) killing one and wounding two before he was shot and killed. If only we had common sense gun laws, tragedies like this would never happen. Back to you Ted."
"Nice story linda."

atek3

[seeker_two]

I'm not a criminal, so there should never be enough "evidence" to warrant a "no-knock warrant" served at my home, so if some cops screw up and get the wrong house I'll probably die (and unfortinately probably take some of the "good guys" with me).

Put my name in the "me too" column. If someone breaks into my house, I start shooting--no matter on what side of the law they fall.

And I'll make sure to take more than one of them with me...

[ReadyontheRight]

One man said he had strung fishing line in the yard around his house, to guard against intruders

Personally, I prefer to defend my home with my hunting gear rather than my fishing gear.:uhoh:

[Keith]

You haven't lived till you get a 220 pound burglar on a medium-weight trout rod! It can take half an hour or more to get them up to the porch where you can gaff them.
Of course, in Kalifornia courts that would be catch-and-release only...

Keith

[4v50 Gary]

Fishing lines work great and the Union Army used telegraph wires it at several places to impede any Confederate attack. The one modification which is illegal would be to support the lines with punji sticks. I'd rather have infrared sensors hooked up to a silent alarm to alert me to trespassers. I would set it at a certain height so that it doesn't go off everytime a cat, dog, 'coon, skunk or four legged critter comes by. When the two legged one does, it becomes the "standby to repel boarders" drill.

The community is scared and should be. As a people, they haven't taken the responsibility to defend themselves. Instead, they rely on big brother. :rolleyes:

[Baba Louie]

Personally, I prefer to defend my home with my hunting gear rather than my fishing gear.

www.spearfishinggear.com

Some equipment might work better than others... Spearguns are interesting and it amuses me to think of what a bunch of big treble hooks could do, a bangstick, etc.

"Suspected drug-dealer Zundfolge was killed in a hail of gunfire early tuesday morning when the local Narcotics team served a lawful warrant at his address. He reportedly opened fire on the police with his (insert evil gun here) killing one and wounding two before he was shot and killed. If only we had common sense gun laws, tragedies like this would never happen. Back to you Ted."

"Linda, did you see that arsenal of machine guns and assault weapons the police removed from the house? What do the neighbors have to say about that?" :rolleyes:

"Well Ted, several of the neighbors said he was such a quiet, nice guy. They never knew there was a suspected terrorist or drug dealer in their quiet neighborhood. He must have had at least half a dozen automatic rifles and assault pistols. Scary."

Should the police come knocking, call 911 immediately to confirm their presence at your door. If its real, they'll usually confirm presence. Comply. If its imposters, they need to know and hear the aftermath on a live phone line.

Get a dog or two. A scanner is fun to listen to for awhile and serves a useful purpose. It is a given that firearms will be present and used as required should this occur to a THR member (unless you live in the UK or some of its other former colonies).

Prepare to repel boarders. (I like that 4v50 Gary) Deguello!

Adios

[Quartus]

Should the police come knocking, call 911 immediately to confirm their presence at your door. If its real, they'll usually confirm presence. Comply. If its imposters, they need to know and hear the aftermath on a live phone line.



That's nice, IF they knock. Too bad that one group is givng up on that little nicety of a free society, and the other never did have much use for it.



:(

[atek3]

Wasn't there a gang of thugs went around staging home invasions were they shouted "DEA", kicked in the door wearing Raid Jackets with guns drawn. Secured the firearms of the home owners, then shot them execution style?

atek3

[atek3]

If your door got kicked in by JBT's of the unofficial or official sort, and you believed your life to be in danger shot and killed several. Even if the raid was on a mistaken address, or you were fingered just because someone didn't like you, by the time the case went to trial, I guarantee they would "find" either drugs or machine gun parts. What is an honest American to do? When you hear the door getting kicked in and a bunch of masked intruders shout "this is the police" drop your means of defense and get a bullet in the head as reward? Or Shoot back and have your family dishonored by the media circus that ensues.

Yuck :(

atek3

[Erik]

Actaually, nothing I own is worth shooting someone over.

However, everyone who may be in my house is, regardless of their status as family or friend.

[DontShootMe]

The day I got my first gun, I played this scenario in my head.

I decided that I'll take my chances shooting, cops or not. I've done nothing warranting a raid, and if they got the wrong house, they really got the WRONG house.

Sad but true. Aren't they (the LEO's) supposed to 'case' the place first, to confirm the illegal activity?

If not, too bad for all of us.

[Frohickey]

fishing line set up to trigger a few pipes with 12gauge DragonsBreath ought to deter them.

Wasn't it Preacherman's friend that had his wife dispatch a couple of would-be burglars using this?

[Baba Louie]

nothing I own is worth shooting someone over

Just your life and that of your family. I know, I know, you don't OWN them, but I'm sure you'd like to be able to SPEND them together.

The only thing in the house worthy of stopping someone from stealing for the good of society is... yeah, my firearms. I'd really, really hate for them to leave in the hands of ner-do-weels and eeeevil-doers knowing that they might be used to cause harm to others.

Stereo, TV... take them if you're man enough.

The knives and guns are MY TOYS and I do not share with others who do not ask nicely.

I'm glad all of these Californians got together to discuss how to stop this nonsense.

I'm sure that from a liability standpoint the official police response is to "give them what they want and don't get yourself hurt playing the hero". Likewise, I'm sure that each officer who would tell you that, will more than likely, tell you in private what he/she would do... and I'd bet a dozen Kispy Kremes that its not "give them what they want and don't get yourself hurt playing the hero"...

More like, "Give them what they deserve for breaking into your castle and placing your families lives in jeopardy".

But I could be wrong.

Adios

[JohnKSa]

Even if the raid was on a mistaken address, or you were fingered just because someone didn't like you, by the time the case went to trial, I guarantee they would "find" either drugs or machine gun parts.
That would be very hard to do credibly in my case.

I've been repeatedly certified squeaky clean by the very folks (among others) that would have to make a case against me.

You know what's really sad about this?

People have had their houses mistakenly broken into by the police.
Just 15 miles from my house, the sheriff broke into a house and cuffed a woman and her children for a couple of hours until they figured out that some drug dealer turned informant (!!???) had given them the wrong address.

People have been shot and even killed when they resisted one of these screwed up warrant services.

But it's still going on.

IMO things won't change until LEOs start dying while serving a warrants on the wrong houses.

'til then, they're having to much fun to quit. And no, I'm not making that up or speculating. I was talking to a SWAT team member on Saturday and he mentioned how much he LOVED serving warrants...

[Hardtarget]

This "wrong house/no knock" happened two (?) years ago in Lebanon Tn. The residents were the parents of my wifes co-worker. He came out with his shotgun...police shot him dead. If you plan to defend, get the real firepower, and start shooting early. Come hot to the fight...rifle at the ready, and shoot the first movement you see. If not, you'll be dead and they'll be saying "uh-oh". This kind of thing worries me a lot. There have been three home invasions close (one mile) to my house. Two were people my sons knew. I'm 53 now and I might look like a good target. Thats why I have chosen my screen name. Its more of an aspiration than an attained level. Don't you just hate living in "condition orange" all the time?
Me too.
Keep shooting
Hardtarget
Mark

[the_redstar_swl]

if this woes legal i Wood have some fishing line hooked up to 30 gal of agent Orange Ir scanners vid cams and the front Door Wood have a 1/5 in stile plate and if i cod get some land mines i Wood mine my front yard with them :fire:

[seeker_two]

:uhoh:

if this woes legal i Wood have some fishing line hooked up to 30 gal of agent Orange Ir scanners vid cams and the front Door Wood have a 1/5 in stile plate and if i cod get some land mines i Wood mine my front yard with them

On your list of rules add:

4-Use Spell-Check before posting... ;)

[mattd]

One man said he had strung fishing line hooked to caymores in the yard around his house, to guard against intruders and jehovah's witnesses.

One of my friend's Dad is a crank addict and he got shot a few times and then charged with kicking a cops ??? with a bat after he got served a no knock search warrant, that didn't go anywhere but, who is the genius who thought up of this full proof plan anyways?

[Correia]

I was born and raised in Merced County. Don't be so quick to cry Sheeple. Much of the San Joaquin Valley is rural, and most of the people there are armed. And they ain't stupid. Merced County Sheriff's actually do issue CCWs, and they don't really make it a painful process either. I don't know about Stanislaus. (not sure I moved to Utah in '93)

Of course the cities are just like anywhere else. Merced is a pretty big town and it has a gang problem imported from Fresno. Modesto is even bigger and I'm sure it has just as many if not more problems.

However you could take the rural parts of the valley and drop them off in Idaho and nobody would notice. :)

The comment about not shooting the ditch bucks is because the valley has the most open air irrigation in the world. The ditch bucks are the guys that check the district's ditches and keep them clear and trouble free. So they are always blundering around in the dark on the ditch banks where there are problems. I imagine that they just don't want to get shot by somebody jumpy.

[atek3]

the_redstar_swl are you really a 13-yr old anarchist in firndale ca? because your post was too much :)
cod
stile
Wood

atek3

[the_redstar_swl]

atek3 yes i am 13 i consider myself a anarchist ( :cuss: :fire: ) of the peaceful-like type but every one i know thinks i just Krazy! im not a very good typist/speller i don't have a lot of money so i don't have a 22.lr yet but i want to get one

[Silver Bullet]

4-Use Spell-Check before posting
Actually, the spell checker would not have caught most of the misspellings, because most of the misspellings are correct spellings for other words.

[gunsmith]

welcome to THR!
I think most anarchist can become
libertarian/republicans if given a chance.
Don't go and get in serious trouble or take
drugs/drink cause the state may use that
against you & limit your capacity
to own firearms.
spelling comes with practice
lord knows I need help with it too

[RAY WOODROW 3RD]

There was a crew of people who would dress all in black and raid drug houses shouting that they were the police. They would tie everybody up and steal the drugs and the money that was in the house. It worked for a while until one of the drug dealers called the cops and reported that people claiming to be the police broke into his home and stole his drugs and drug money.

(I think he was smoking the crack pipe a little too long to do that!)

[Steel]

If your door got kicked in by JBT's of the unofficial or official sort, and you believed your life to be in danger shot and killed several. Even if the raid was on a mistaken address, or you were fingered just because someone didn't like you, by the time the case went to trial, I guarantee they would "find" either drugs or machine gun parts. What is an honest American to do? When you hear the door getting kicked in and a bunch of masked intruders shout "this is the police" drop your means of defense and get a bullet in the head as reward?


In case all of you have not figured it out yet: never assume that a cop is your buddy! You do not know his background, training, level of integrity or common sense, or the baggage he carries.

CYA

[seeker_two]

Silver Bullet: I know, but he's 13 and still has a chance to learn proper English and grammar. Guess the teacher part of me slipped out...

gunsmith: It's far too late for us old folks.... ;)

[ed dixon]

redstar:

You need to sit down, calm down and think a little more about what you say and how you say it. You're very young and it shows. Grandiose claims about wanton actions might be fodder for the treehouse, but will not impress adults. Your age explains a lot, but still you manage to worry me. You can learn a lot here, and about a lot more than firearms. I hope you'll stick around and do that. Ed

[Tommy Gunn]

They residents at the meeting should have been told to get a dog in the yard and a shotgun in the house.

[Steel]

I've always liked my setup: the addition of steel, lockable storm doors. The one I have cannot be lock-picked (no external key), plus they have a glass portion on top. If a perp is trying to get past it, it will be a noisy afair and it will buy me time, allowing me to collect my "friends" for an encounter. At night, I always answer the door with a sidearm in my right hand (behind the main door) and can address visitors behind the storm door. If it is a friend, the I can simply unlock the storm door....


oh yeah, storm windows too.

[coylh]

This may be a bit off-thread, but I thought that both the raid-cops and we could be made safer by having a door which would delay their entry long enough to establish identity. Think:

(crunch, pound pound pound!) "Open up in there, dammit!"

"Who is it?"

"Townville Police, open up!"

"Turn on your police car's siren and lights please, and I will open the door."

No homeowners hurt, no police hurt. So, the question is, what kind of exterior door would effectively prevent a dynamic entry team breech?

[Smoke]

Re: Fishing line...


Sounds like a good use for Rat-Trap Claymores.

[Zundfolge]

Entry proof doors and other security measures are nice, but the best solution is to just outlaw no-knock warrants in the first place ... no sense in risking the lives of officers or innocent people with all this rambo nonsense (but what do you expect when you give cops MP5s and SpecOps ninja suits ... THEY ARE NOT THE G-D MILITARY!).

[Detachment Charlie]

If somebody with a mask and a gun breaks into my house, Tonto better be right behind him, otherwise he's a dead #$%.

The guy who said this to me was my father, a retired big city cop, with a .357, a bad attitude and great reflexes.
No-knock warrants, featuring masked ninja, super wannabe warrior cops, are very, very bad things. Each time i see one of these portrayed on TV, all I can think of is replacing the English sound track with Spanish and it could be any South American, banana republic death squad.
But, as we all know, "Drugs are bad, mmkay."

[grampster]

Redstar,

Welcome to THR. This forum will provide you with some seriously important information about firearms, hunting etc. But please know it is also a forum with a lot of adults who bluster and claim to take actions that are not necessarily realistic reactions to situations. Some of what you read here is fantasy and you need a little more seasoning to be able to see the difference between real things and some bluster on the internet.

You are a young person with a lot to learn and also enjoy in your life. Do not close yourself off from the wonder of being a kid living in our great free country by trying to be too adult too soon. It is better for you to be a kid and not take too many things too seriously for awhile yet.

It might be better for you to visit some of the other sites in this forum to learn about the various types of firearms, hunting, reloading, etc and leave the general and political chat room till you get a bit older. It is important for you to understand the freedoms we enjoy in America and how some would try and take that freedom away, but don't allow yourself to be so caught up in the seriousness of life too soon. Don't be putting labels on yourself like "anarchist" till you are old enough and seasoned enough to understand the impact of those types of labels. By labeling yourself, you invite others to treat you badly. You don't need to bring that sort of thing on yourself. Human nature is a strange thing, redstar. Sometimes you are unfairly judged by others; not your fault, but reality is harsh sometimes. You are a kid, hang on to that label for as long as you can. I'm 60 and still a kid. It's better that way, trust me.

Grampster

[Langenator]

coylh-

Depending on just how 'dynamic' the entry team is willing/allowed to be-i.e. is the use of explosives allowed? If explosives are allowed, then they can simply blow a hole in the wall if the door is too stout. Depending on what the house is made of, it may only require a large quantity of det cord. Or use what we called a 'doorknob charge' to blow out the locking mechanism.

[fix]

Fix's rule #1 for cops: ID or die!

[Phil Ca]

No offense RedStar but do you attend a Publik Skuuul in kalifornia??? Your Sspelllng are atrochess.:D

When we moved to the Ceres area some months back from a nice quiet area of the Napa Valley, where I had a long-standing CCW, I had some reservations about this area. After all the Gary Condit home and the Levy home and the Scott and Lacy Peterson home are all about 15 to 20 minutes from our house.

We moved into a relatively nice neighborhood and there are many church-going people. There are a number of different ethnic groups here and an Assyrian Cultural Center about a mile from our house. We have had very few problems here, partly because of my police background and training.

A short while after moving here I took the obligatory class and test for another CCW, fired my handguns on a local range and took my application in to the SO. To date, I have not been called in, nor have I recieved my new CCW. I guess it is time to write the sheriff and ask what gives. I hace had a CCW for about 23 years and have been a police firearms instructor in two places.

One evening after 11:30 PM, the doorbell rang. I was on the internet and my wife was dealing with some paperwork. I took my M1911 and put it in my back waist band and went to the small window and looked out. Then man that rang the door was on his cellphone and standing back about 12 feet. I opened the door and asked what he wanted. He said his brother had stopped in his driveway four houses away and when he went back to his car a couple of minutes later it was gone. He asked if the mountain bike that he saw on our sideyard was ours. I got my digital camera and went out to where his wife and one son were standing on the sidewalk. I took photos of the bike and the serial number and California registration number. I called the police and a female officer came out to the house. The bike had been removed by that time but I had 6 or 8 good shots of all the pertinent data.

As for threat of home invasion, it is very real and I have my own plan in dealing with it. Calling the police will have to be an afterthought since the perps that do these things do not generally give you time to call 911 before they enter your home.

As for cops raiding the wrong place, well,..... one would hope that they would have the right address and not be acting on a tip from some untrustworthy person. I do not appreciate these ninja cops with dark clothes and face masks. They look more lime JBTs than real cops.

The people of Turlock, about 10 minutes from my place neeed to be better prepared against home invasion robbers.

Meanwhile, without the CCW, I still take care of my own security and safety.

:)

[t-stox]

Actually this whole Rambo no-knock thing is a direct result of the drug war! why? because why would you take such a risk in the first place? except in the belief that the suspect will flush the evidence. if say a wanted person was found you hang outside his house then nab him as he comes out that way you can see if he's armed. Or nab him at work or anywhere, but a no knock ninja raid!? One day all this madness will end! and it ain't gonna be when all the people just say to themselves "Gee I should just say no to drugs"

[ump45]

She advised people to "comply and do what they want -- no piece of jewelry is worth your life."

Yes, "comply and do what they want", including RAPING your daughter or your wife. YOUR LIFE IS NOT WORTH risking defending your family and your property!!!

[Ryder]

Back when I used to live in the big city I had a length of fishingline attached by alligator clip to the bottom of chain link fence along the rear of the property line. The line ran through the tips of the grass under the back door, up the breezeway stairs, under the kitchen door, up the inside of the kitchen door, and with a single loop had a popcan hung from the door handle. Heavy with pennies it made quite a racket when hitting the floor.

I've never bothered with strengthening doors. I'm with GW in that regard. "Bring it on". I hope invaders aren't too sleepy at such times of the morning because I'm wide awake practicing my energy savings techniques and I do prefer a bit of a challenge now and then.

There was a sneak attack by police here abouts a year ago. Big gun battle, two of the three home occupants killed. Don't recall any cops being killed, just wounded. The survivor escaped to turn himself in a week later. Haven't heard a peep about it since, also haven't heard of anymore sneak attacks.

[BluesBear]

no piece of jewelry is worth your life It's the ROBBERS who should remember this.
At least at my house. :neener:

[Aikibiker]

It says something about the death of basic knowlege in America that cops have a legitimate concern about the badguys flushing evidence.

We don't even have to have knowlege of the intricacies of plumbing to figure out what is wrong with this scenario. Unless your house is connected to a septic tank it has to have a pipe bringing water into the house and a pipe taking waste water out of the house. There has to be some sort of access to this pipe at surface level for inspections and such. Now with these deductions how hard is it to divert the waste pipe to collect evidence and quit endangering citizens and officers lives with this infantile mall ninja stupidity?

Any plumbers on the board want to double check my deductions and assumptions?

[igor]

grampster, a tip of the hat... great approach. Hope I'll be able to communicate like that some day.

[grampster]

igor,

Let's see....Finland...Michigan....Finland...Michigan....hmmm. Pine trees, ice, sleet, wind, clouds................Only difference that I see is we have the Detroit Red Wings....heh.


:D :D grampster

[BluesBear]

Aikibiker

It's even simpler than that. All you have to do is shut off the water supply. Sure they can flush some of it.
But they can only flush once. By the time they realise that they can't flush again and try to get to another bathroom the entry team will be inside.

Wasn't there a ruling handed down yesterday (Wed Dec 3) that there now has to be a 20 second delay after knocking and announcing before they can go busting down the door?

[4 eyed six shooter]

Outside, motion detecting lights could be helpful in scaring home invaders off. They might just go down a couple of doors and try again. The lights also give you a short warning that something is moving outside.
If they do come in, once they have been shot as many times as necessary, call 911. Tell them that home invaders just burst thru your door (or you could say that they invaded your village if you are in New York), that you were afraid for your life, thought that they were going to kill you. Tell them you had no choice but to defend yourself and try to STOP (not kill) the home invaders from killing you and your family. Tell them to send the police and PARA MEDICS. All calls are recorded on 911. In Kalifornia, you must be in fear of your life to use deadly force. Asking for the medics shows that you are a compassionate person and really care about the poor misguided lowlifes that you just shot. You have told them that you feard for your life. It is all on tape. Sounds really good to a Grand Jury. If you have done your job properly, the meat wagon will be all that is needed. The medics can just go back to the station and get some much needed sleep.:) You may also want to call your lawyer before talking to the police about the shooting. Most of the time LEO's are happy to see home invaders with so many holes in them that they have to be strained for fingerprints, but not all law enforcement officers feel that way.
John K

[Quartus]

Unless your house is connected to a septic tank it has to have a pipe bringing water into the house and a pipe taking waste water out of the house. There has to be some sort of access to this pipe at surface level for inspections and such. Now with these deductions how hard is it to divert the waste pipe to collect evidence and quit endangering citizens and officers lives with this infantile mall ninja stupidity?

Any plumbers on the board want to double check my deductions and assumptions?



A place for inspections from the surface is rare. Mostly, the sewer line is several feet down and dropping as it gets closer to the street where the main line is. Not practical to do an intercept.

Santa Ana PD (southern Kalifornia) did do just that to one big biker run drug operation 'bout 20 years ago. They had been trying to get these guys for a loooong time, but the BGs kept dogs. Cops show up, dogs give alarm, drugs get flushed, no convictions. So they set up a 'construction' project in the street. Under the cover of this bogus street repair, they tapped the sewer line and initiated a raid. Bingo - all the evidence they could want.

It's not hard to see that this approach is not practical on a wide scale. The expense, the traffic hassles, the public inconvenience, etc.

No-knocks are MUCH easier and MUCH more dramatic. READ: much more fun.

:barf:

[Aikibiker]

Quartus:

No-knocks are MUCH easier and MUCH more dramatic. READ: much more fun.

That reminds me of a bit of research I did this semester. I came across an article written for police administrators on how to best employ officers with serious personality disorders. The suggestion for those with antisocial personality disorder (psychobabel for violent psychotics) was to put them on a warrant squad or SWAT entry team. The reasoning was that since they like violence and do not care about human life they will be more likely to use force and enjoy their job.

I am still trying to figure out why you wouldn't fire such a person, maybe union rules or something. :confused:

[Quartus]

I wish I didn't believe you. :(

[Roadkill]

Reference the fishing line, I've been doing this for thirty or more years: Take fishing line, run it about 18"-2' above ground around your position as far out as terrain allows. The start point will be an old fly reel attached to a stake you drive in the ground, tie to a tree, ect right by your head where you sleep. When something hits the line the spin/clicking will wake you up.
This if added to several boards with wood screws sticking through about 2" and placed in approaches to the doors will provide warning. The threads act as barbs and really make them hard to get out.

rk

[Mad Man]

That reminds me of a bit of research I did this semester. I came across an article written for police administrators on how to best employ officers with serious personality disorders. The suggestion for those with antisocial personality disorder (psychobabel for violent psychotics) was to put them on a warrant squad or SWAT entry team. The reasoning was that since they like violence and do not care about human life they will be more likely to use force and enjoy their job.


Source, please.

[Aikibiker]

Mad Man:

Source, please.


Fortunately I haven't thrown out everything yet.

Police Personalities Understanding and Managing the Problem Officer

By Laurence Miller, Ph.D., Police Psychologist, West Palm Beach, Florida, Police Department

Appeared in the May 2003 issue (volume LXX, number 5) of The Police Chief The official publication of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, Inc.

The article is for real. you should have seen my face when I read it. Something like this: :what:

[BluesBear]

NOTHING that orginization says would suprise me.

[spartacus2002]

You know, there are lotsa companies that sell jackets that say SHERIFF, SWAT, or POLICE on them. Not too hard for some bad guys to fake a police outfit and do a fake no-knock raid.

Of course, thanks to SCOTUS, bad guys will now wait 10 seconds between knocking on the door and knocking down the door, knowing that the sheeple will say "Gee honey, they waited 10 seconds, they must be police!"

[carpettbaggerr]

Police Personalities Understanding and Managing the Problem Officer


Appeared in the May 2003 issue (volume LXX, number 5) of The Police Chief The official publication of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, Inc.


Doesn't seem to be available online. Is there any way you could scan and post it? I'd be very interested in reading it.

[Aikibiker]

carpettbaggerr,

I don't have a website to host the scans on. (Iwouldn't know how to go about doing it if I did anyways) If you want though PM me your e-mail address and I will see about sending you a copy.

If anyone else wants a copy just PM and I will try to do a mass mail sometime tomorrow. I hope I am not setting myself up for something massive here. Or if you feel like hosting this let me know.