[mlw332]

Ok I am loading 223 to an over all length of 2.200 with a 55gr. When I go to close the bolt on my rifle(rem. 700) it is harder than normal to close. so I take the OAL down to 2.100 and still hard to close. No rifling marks on the bullet itself. Any ideas about what my problem could be...

[Ridgerunner665]

What brand of brass are you using...can you see anything out of the ordinary around the rim?

Are they once fired brass, have they been sized? And did you resize only the neck...or the whole case?

When was the last time the gun was cleaned (possibly dirty chamber)???

[mlw332]

Variety of brass. Mostly remington and pmc.
They are once fired and yes they have been sized
Gun is brand new been shot maybe 40 times.

[Ridgerunner665]

Is it marking the shoulder of the case when you try to close the bolt?

[Samgotit]

Check out the first post here, then read the rest:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=349785

[taliv]

i agree with where i think ridgerunner is going with his line of questioning... sounds like the cases aren't sized/trimmed properly.

even if you took a very long bullet and seated it way out past 2.26 or so, i don't think it would make it "hard to close" when it pushes the bullet back into the neck a bit.

the "hard" part comes from trying to use your chamber to size your brass.

[Ridgerunner665]

Yep...thats what I'm thinking.

[mlw332]

there is slight marking to the top of the case.

[omarkw11@gmail.com]

just an idea, but i had some that had the brass flow into the neck, making the neck walls too thick. this causes no clearance between the neck and throat, creating a vice like hold on the bullet. can cause extreme pressure even with mild loads. reaming the necks is the solution.

[Ridgerunner665]

What kind of sizing die did you use...and how much experience do you have with it?

[mlw332]

Samgotit. nice article

[mlw332]

its rcbs. have only recently started loading 223. most of my experience is with 45 and 357

[Ridgerunner665]

And what is the length of the sized brass?

I'll quit asking questions and give an answer in a minute...LOL.

[Ridgerunner665]

OK...same brand I use.

Talk me through your setup procedure...for sizing.

[mlw332]

cant remember what the case length was but i know it was what my speer book said it should be.

[Ridgerunner665]

Another thing...you may be crimping the bullets too tight???

Sometimes you can crush the shoulder just enough that its hard to see...but it won't fit in the chamber.

[nicholst55]

Buy a cartridge gauge from Midway (or wherever), and adjust your sizing die until your brass fits ('chambers' in) the gauge. Trim your brass so that it doesn't protrude beyond the end of the gauge. Load a dummy round with no primer or powder, and insure that it chambers and ejects easily from your rifle.

You should now be golden - as far as brass length and sizing die adjustment go, anyway.

[mlw332]

how would i know if i was crimping it to tight???

[strat81]

Trim your cases to 1.750" and try screwing your sizing die in a bit (i.e., move it closer to the ram).

[Ridgerunner665]

Im going to show you...give me a minute to take and post the pics.

[mlw332]

i screwed the die in earlier today until the rim almost touched just to see if that helped but no change....

[strat81]

You'll know you're crimping too tightly if it flares the shoulder of the case. If you're using a separate crimp die, try chambering a round (with no powder but with a bullet) that has not been run through your crimp die.

Have you trimmed the brass to 1.750"?

[mlw332]

ok it has not flared the shoulder

[strat81]

When you lubed the cases for sizing, did you lube the mouth of the brass? If you don't, the expander ball can drag and pull the shoulder forward.

[mlw332]

i wiped the entire case with rcbs lube

[strat81]

Did you put some IN the mouth of the case? (where the bullet goes)

[mlw332]

i did not.

[strat81]

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html
Check out the video near the bottom about lubricating a case. I use their method but I use Imperial Sizing Wax.

[Ridgerunner665]

OK...its hard to see on a couple of these rounds, but its there on all of them.

The 2 on the right will chamber in my AR 15...but not my match grade bolt actions...these are some rounds that my son goofed up while I was teaching him how to do this...I kept them for visual aids.

Do your rounds look like this?...look close...

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/bdhg.jpg

[strat81]

Ridgerunner posted an excellent pic. Sometimes the flared shoulder is hard to see but it can usually be felt.

When in doubt, use your micrometer to check.

[mlw332]

as far as i can tell they are no different from the factory loads other than the dificulty to chamber

[Ridgerunner665]

Screw the die in until it touches the shell holder and lock it down...

If you did that...and your cases were not longer than 1.76...you must be over crimping.

[Selfdfenz]

And what happens when you try chambering one of your sized case only [no bullet, no powder]?


Best

S-

[uneasy_rider]

Buy a cartridge gauge from Midway (or wherever), and adjust your sizing die until your brass fits ('chambers' in) the gauge.

This is the best answer given.

These kind of problems are usually related to the way you are sizing your brass. If you don't use a case gauge, you are just guessing.

[mlw332]

ok it looks like very slight marking on the neck right where i starts to widen out

[Ridgerunner665]

What bullets are you using...do they have a cannelure?

Its VERY easy to over crimp bulets that don't have a cannelure...like the 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips which are the 2 bullets on the right in that pic.

[mlw332]

selfdfenz i have not tried sizing just the sized case

[Ridgerunner665]

ok it looks like very slight marking on the neck right where i starts to widen out

Screw you sizing die down tight against the shell holder (by hand, but as tight as you can)...and try it again.

[mlw332]

i am using 55gr nosler ballistic tips

[strat81]

For case gages, I really like my Dillon. It's stainless steel, so rust isn't an issue like on carbon steel gages.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/23612/catid/3/_223_Dillon_Stainless_Steel_Case_Gage

[mlw332]

ok i will try that ridgerunner.

[Ridgerunner665]

Don't crimp them at all and see what happens...they don't really have to be crimped for a bolt action anyway...just work the bolt a little easier and don't ram it home.

I still think you are crimping too tight...but I may be wrong.

[mlw332]

ok ridgerunner i screwed the sizing die down to the shell holder instead of just above the rim as before. i sized on and loaded it as a dummy round it chambers great now.

thanks for the help guys

[Ridgerunner665]

Your welcome...

[strat81]

"THR 24 hour tech support, can I help you?"
Glad it worked out.

[mlw332]

im just glad to finally broaden my reloading. started with shotshell then pistol now rifle

[Ridgerunner665]

"THR 24 hour tech support, can I help you?"

Everybody needs a helping hand once in a while...even in the wee hours of the morning.

[Ridgerunner665]

mlw...

Loading for rifle is where you want to get everything very precise...it don't really matter with pistols...but it does with rifles, the farther you shoot, the more it matters.

[mlw332]

i am keeping it under 200 as of now but i would like to get the 223 out to about 500

[Ridgerunner665]

What rate of twist is your barrel?

I get decent accuracy from my AR at 600 yards with heavy bullets (I can keep them all in an 8 inch circle), its not a varmint rig...just a plain old Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with a 3-9x40 Leupold scope on it.

It is pure destruction for coyotes at 300 yards with those 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips launched at 3,100 fps (.75" groups @ 100 yards)

1 in 9 twist barrel and it shoots REALLY good with 62 - 70 grain bullets.

Only 1 model of Remington 700 in 223 has a fast twist (1 in 9) barrel...I don't remeber the exact name of it, but its the tactical rifle (20 inch bull barrel).

If you have a 1 in 12 twist you will have better luck at 300 yards and less...because it won't stabilize the heavy bullets needed to reach way out there.

[GunTech]

Does factory new ammo chamber easily?

[mlw332]

i have the sps tactical you are talking about with the 1-9 twist. so far with factory 55 gr it has shot a .7" 5shot at 100. if i can get it doin that at 300 i will be all smiles

[Ridgerunner665]

It will probably do better with heavier bullets...I like 62 grains...but 68 - 69 usually do better in the 1 in 9 barrels

But don't check your groups at 100 yards with heavy bullets...sometimes they don't settle down until 200 yards.

With that rifle you should be able to get at least 1 inch groups (maybe even better) at 200 yards...once you find what load it likes.

[mlw332]

I want to install a new trigger but am not sure what i should get

[Ridgerunner665]

Theres plenty of good ones to chose from...or you could just have the one you got worked on...the Rem. model 700 triggers are adjustable (gunsmith required).

[mlw332]

yeah i read about how to adjust the trigger and i tried and the allen screws stripped out so i figure by the time the gunsmith fixed it i could have a new one

[Ridgerunner665]

Yeah...What they don't tell you is that its not as easy as it sounds...LOL...I found out the hard way too, so don't feel bad.

[Ridgerunner665]

Timney or Jard are about as good as any.

[mlw332]

i have been looking at the jard.

[moooose102]

it sounds to me like maybe you do not have the sizer die screwed all the way in. on my lee dies, you have to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder with the ram all the way up. if there is even a few thousandths of clearance between the shell holder and die bottom, the brass will be sized just a few thousandths to long. that would give you the hard closing/opening you are talking about, as it would be close, and kind of a press fit by the cam action of the bolt.