CCI Shotshell in .38 Special for HD?


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The_Sheriff
June 22, 2008, 04:36 AM
Hello,

I was thinking today about puting the CCI shotshell ammo in my .38 for home defense. I usually just use them when I am camping for snakes but have never considered them for this. Maybe they could be somewhat a shock or warning for a BG plus having 3 other people in the house sleeping I know that they will not penetrate through walls and will most likely be lethal if I have a missfire.

I was thinking about puting one of these for the first round and hollow points for the rest.

OPINIONS?????

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.38 Special
June 22, 2008, 04:49 AM
Supposedly the fine shot used in these loads simply will not penetrate deeply enough to effectively stop an attacker. I have not shot anyone with them so cannot say if this is actually the case.

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 22, 2008, 04:49 AM
I think the consensus will be that it is a terrible idea.

You may find this thread of interest: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=229488

The_Sheriff
June 22, 2008, 04:59 AM
Also will ball ammo (FMJ) overpenetrate in the .38 Special (not +P)?

Fast Frank
June 22, 2008, 05:02 AM
I think those shot shells are going to be a whole lot like rock salt in the shotgun.

Back in the day, we would use these to "Train" mischievous types without really hurting them. It was a good idea in another time, and would be today... except for today's laws.

Today, firing a weapon at a person is only to be allowed in serious self defense situations. Your life must be in danger before it's OK to shoot.

If you are shooting rat shot or salt at people, it has to be because you already know your life isn't in danger. Clearly nobody would fight for their life with these.

The problem is the perception you are creating.

In this case, the perception of a less than lethal confrontation can send you to jail.

For defense, use only serious ammo, and only in serious situations.

Training folks with a gun isn't acceptable any more.

As far as the penetration thing goes, no bullet properly placed in the bad guy is going to be a problem.

Use a hollow point bullet designed for defense. They have optimized them for this purpose and they work well.

I recommend you practice until you can make your shots go where you want them. It's really the best answer.

kd7nqb
June 22, 2008, 05:03 AM
This may be less applicable to a revolver but its not a bad idea to have the first few rounds of shot and then followed it by Hollow points. Thats probably a better idea in 15rnd mag than a 5 or 6 round cylinder but something to think about. This is my camping set up now that I found shotshells that reliably cycle my M&P.

.38 Special
June 22, 2008, 05:12 AM
Dunno about overpenetration with the .38 LRN, as it's another caliber with which I haven't shot anyone.

I do know that the .38 LRN has an absolutely horrible record as a man stopper. If I were forced to choose between snake shot and the 158 LRN I think I might just try to get close enough to club him with the gun butt. :p

markk
June 22, 2008, 05:43 AM
OPINIONS?????

Terrible idea.
Read this...http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot30.htm

The_Sheriff
June 22, 2008, 06:06 AM
Thanks "markk"! That story told me everything I need to know.


- The_Sheriff

Regen
June 22, 2008, 07:56 AM
The CCI Shotshells burst upon firing an produce a spray of fine shot, which results in very little penetration. The Glazer Safety Slugs, burst upon impact on a target. You get a few inches of penetration of the slug into the target and then a large number of fragments moving internally in the target.

hso
June 22, 2008, 08:42 AM
Penetration would be lacking and therefore the round would be inadequate.

Knotthead
June 22, 2008, 09:05 AM
Here's another issue to consider when using CCI shotshells for self defense, or any other reason. Last summer I began loading one in the first chamber of my Taurus M85UL in response to a rash of copperheads near the house. After having to use them once, I began loading them in the first two. When I had the occasion to use it again, the first shot did not do the job well enough so I attempted to fire again, but the cylinder wouldn't turn. The recoil had caused the plastic shotshell cap to back out enough to jam the gun. The following day I fired off a few target rounds with a shotshell in the cylinder and found the cap to back out far enough to jam the cylinder more often than not. I would suggest you examine this problem with your own gun before you decide to use them for any reason. As for me, I still will load one, and only one, when I consider it may be called upon, but I don't consider it a valid choice for self defense.

moooose102
June 22, 2008, 09:44 AM
i do not think this would be a good idea either. if i HAVE to shoot someone, i want them to go down IMMEDIATLY!!! i dont want to give them a chance to retaliate. if you want something that is designed for s.d. that will not over penetrate, they make glasse safety slugs (frangible) or Aguila IQ ammo (very lightweight ( 117 gr. 45 acp) HOME DEFENSE ammo. supposedly, it will not penetrate through an interior (drywall) wall, so there is less danger that your loved one would be harmed if you miss. the BEST thing you could do however, is practice, practice, practice until you are a great shot under 20 feet. most home defense situations will be under those distances. someone on this board has a really nice quote that applies to this. " an amature practices untill he gets it right, a pro practices until he can't get it wrong!

Jeff F
June 22, 2008, 09:58 AM
For home defense against a snake or rat its perfect. Anything with two legs, or four legs thats much bigger then a rat then its time for the real bullets. For me real bullets are 158 g hollow points.

papajohn
June 22, 2008, 01:00 PM
Those who remember Dean Grennell might also remember that he once posed this same question, wondering if an unaimed blast of shot might distract/discombobulate a bad guy long enough to allow a carefully aimed second shot to put the kibosh on the miscreant. He made this suggestion to Massad Ayoob, whose only reply was, "Dean, you are really WEIRD!" :o

I think I'd go with Glasers for the first round or two, with hollow points to follow.

PJ

Funderb
June 22, 2008, 01:02 PM
NO. Bad.

Craig_VA
June 22, 2008, 07:33 PM
I gues we can visualize the modern Tejas Ranger talking to his hastily formed posse:
"This is a semi-dangerous situation. Shoot to maim."

macadore
June 22, 2008, 10:44 PM
The CCI Shotshells burst upon firing an produce a spray of fine shot, which results in very little penetration. The Glazer Safety Slugs, burst upon impact on a target. You get a few inches of penetration of the slug into the target and then a large number of fragments moving internally in the target.

Doctor Martin Fackler said it would take two weeks for one of those to incapacitate an attacker and the cause would be peritonitis. Here is one of his articles on handgun wound ballistics. http://rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html Fackler believes that the main requirement for a handgun round is the ability to completely penetrate the human body from any angle. I tend to agree.

Sistema1927
June 22, 2008, 10:53 PM
Really bad idea.

When they escort the blind guy into the courtroom none of the jury will care that he was breaking into your house when you shot him.

RONSTAR
June 22, 2008, 10:59 PM
Sounds perfect if your just trying to give the BG an owie.

jrfoxx
June 23, 2008, 05:19 AM
said it would take two weeks for one of those to incapacitate an attacker and the cause would be peritonitis.
That'd be my guess as to the outcome 99.999% of the time (assuming the BG cant get to a hospital in 2 weeks, in which case, even that probly wont happen). I can get the same results having a Punji stick as my HD weapon, and I'll get better penetration with it, increasi9ng the odds of damaging something vital, than with a CCI shotshell, so given the choice of the 2, it's poo on a sharp stick for me! :p:D

Regen
June 23, 2008, 07:45 AM
Doctor Martin Fackler said it would take two weeks for one of those to incapacitate an attacker and the cause would be peritonitis.
Macadore - are you saying that Fackler says it would take two weeks for a Glaser Safety Slug to kill someone?

Deanimator
June 23, 2008, 08:30 AM
Also will ball ammo (FMJ) overpenetrate in the .38 Special (not +P)?
.38 Special ball is very similar to the old .38 Long Colt which was dumped because it had poor stopping power. Don't expect something with an FMJ bullet to do better than something similar with a soft lead bullet.

foghornl
June 23, 2008, 09:06 AM
IF you are defending you home from zombie rattlesnakes, rabid small rodents...OK

Defending against 2-legged interlopers or 10-Lb+ rodents/creepy crawlies ....NO!

learn2shoot
June 23, 2008, 09:15 AM
NO.. They are NOT intended for HD - unless you have been watching too many bad Samuel L. Jacckson movies.

Please read the following (if you didn't when #8 was posted.)
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot30.htm

macadore
June 23, 2008, 10:21 AM
Macadore - are you saying that Fackler says it would take two weeks for a Glaser Safety Slug to kill someone?

Yes. I apologize for being unclear.

papajohn
June 23, 2008, 11:48 AM
There's another really good reason to ignore Fackler. The guy is completely obsessed with penetration. Must be a Freudian thing. ;)

His choice of a Home Defense weapon? .30 M-1 Carbine. :confused:

PJ

Funderb
June 23, 2008, 11:56 AM
this poor guy keeps getting hit over and over again with these comments, but most fail to read the most important one:

Thanks "markk"! That story told me everything I need to know.


- The_Sheriff


This thread is settled already, it need go no further.

scrat
June 23, 2008, 12:19 PM
the post by mark #8 is pretty good. Glad to hear that snake shot is good for snakes

revjen45
June 23, 2008, 12:39 PM
Notice that Dick Cheney nailed an 83 year old man in the face and shoulder with bird shot from a 28 ga without causing immediate incapacitation. I wouldn't depend on bird shot for HD/SD even with a shotgun.

RustyShackelford
June 23, 2008, 12:44 PM
I would buy the Glaser Silver safety slug, Magsafe +P MAX load or maybe the lesser known ExtremeshockUSA round in .38spl . Those snake loads from CCI are not bad but they are not made for protection/security use. :D

Rusty

OFT
June 23, 2008, 03:46 PM
Shot would likely be okay if your assailant weighs under two pounds.:neener:

jrfoxx
June 24, 2008, 04:29 AM
This thread is settled already, it need go no further.

I saw the OP's response, but posted anyway, as it's likely the only chance I'm gonna get to post about "poo on a sharp stick" as a HD weapon, so....
:neener::D

learn2shoot
June 24, 2008, 10:45 AM
Shot would likely be okay if your assailant weighs under two pounds

Attack of the midget zombie premies!!

Funderb
June 24, 2008, 01:24 PM
oh, where are the moderators? uhhhhh.

rcmodel
June 24, 2008, 03:44 PM
Really bad idea.
When they escort the blind guy into the courtroom none of the jury will care that he was breaking into your house when you shot him.That right there says it all!

rcmodel

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