[scotjute]

Am planning several hunts in future years for elk, moose, black bear, wildebeest, impala or similar, and possibly Cape Buffalo (this one is questionble)and need rifle recommendations. My current rifle is 6.5x55 caliber which is probably too small for moose and Cape Buffalo. Prefer caliber big enough without too much kick, flat shooting, not to expensive, legal, etc. .45-70, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or others to be considered. Understand that the recommended caliber may not fit everything. May end up selling this rifle once goal has been achieved.

[2dswamp]

If I had to choose one gun for the purposes you describe....375 H&H

If the recoil is too stout for you...300 Win Mag Can load her light or heavy

Good luck!

[Wheeler44]

A lot of moose have been put down with a 6.5x55.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

6.5x55 too small for Cape Buff? Absolutely. Too small for moose? Nah, it'll work just fine for moose and plains game, in my understanding.

For the Buff, whole nuther story - you want a BIG gun. Bare minimum of .375 HH mag or .45-70 upper level II loads. Preferably a nitro round (.450, .470, .500, etc.), or .458 winmag or lott, or a .416 or .460 bolt rifle. The best power to economy ratio is gonna be a CZ 550 Safari magnum in .458 Lott, or a CZ 550 or Win 70 in .375 HH mag.

[Grumulkin]

Without question, what you need is a 375 H&H Magnum.http://www.orchardphoto.com/d7zo12.jpgThe recoil is very tolerable and you can use it for anything from varmints (with solids) as in the African Wildcat pictured to Cape Buffalo. Unlike the 300 Win. Mag., it's actually legal for Cape Buffalo.

[wishn4more]

Had a couple nice big bore rifles on the used rack, may still be there. 210-674-5220... Anyone who answers will help you out. Just a loyal customer!

[saddlebum]

375 ruger

[wheelgunslinger]

375 h&h is my answer too. I love it as a great all around round for big, medium, and small game.
And, if you want to get creative, Browning made the BAR in that caliber for a while. So, you can shoot it semi-auto if you want.

[H&Hhunter]

.375H&H is by far and away the rifle you seek. It can be had in nice light short packages and it is gentle to shoot and gives you all the range versatility you could possibly hope for in a hunting rifle plus the hit and killing power to use on the worlds largest game. I've killed everything from Jack Rabbits to Cape buffalo with mine.

The .375 Ruger is fine choice as well it is nothing more than a standard length version of the .375H&H it offers no more and no less in the power department.

Don't be fooled by internet bwanabes the .45-70 is NOT legal for buff hunting in Africa. It cannot make the minimum energy requirements. Read the latest Sports Afield Kevin Robertson explains it very nicely.

And, if you want to get creative, Browning made the BAR in that caliber for a while. So, you can shoot it semi-auto if you want.
Not in Africa you can't. Semi autos are illegal in most if not all hunting countries in Africa.

[B.D. Turner]

I believe Jim Shockey has take all of the above animals listed with a muzzleloader. Ohhh it must have been a ultra mag muzzleloader.

[scotjute]

from H&H Hunter :

"...I've killed everything from Jack Rabbits to Cape buffalo with mine."

Being from Texas, that statement makes perfect sense to me! Sounds as if you've been on a Jack Rabbit hunting trip down here. When you're out on the open prairie with nothing between you and an agitated Texas Jack Rabbit but sky, thoughts of "did I bring enough gun" will begin to run thru even the most experienced of hunters!

Is it recommended to scope the .375 H&H for Cape Buffalo?

[H&Hhunter]

Yes I think a scope on a .375H&H is a very good idea.

Scoutjute you've obviously never hunted the rare, elusive and dangerous "High Plains" jack rabbit....;)

[mio]

i had a .338 win mag. if that wont kill it im not hunting it.

[W.E.G.]

i had a .338 win mag. if that wont kill it im not hunting it.

+1

[H&Hhunter]

It isn't about whether it is capable of killing a buff or not I am referring to legality. The .338 and the .375H&H are just about twins in the killing department but the .338 isn't a legal DG caliber in any African countries.

The question was a moose/Cape buffalo gun. The .338 doesn't qualify in the buff department.

[uk roe hunter]

i was just watching a you tube vid of a bloke hunting waterbuffalo in australia, he was using .375 Holland & Holland. The animals were not going straight down. the water buff ran away when wounded, cape buff probably won't. Take loads of gun. they are quite nasty when they are angry (like the hulk with horns)

[Grumulkin]

Browning made the BAR in that caliber (375 H&H Mag.) for a while. So, you can shoot it semi-auto if you want.

I didn't know that. Legal or not for Africa, I want one.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Hey H&H hunter -is a standard .50 cal muzzleloader like Jim Shockey uses (as someone noted above) legal to use in all or most countries there if you wish to? I've seen that dude kill cape buff his ML! :eek:

[wheelgunslinger]

Don't be fooled by internet bwanabes
That's pretty funny wordplay right there. Can I borrow that?

Not in Africa you can't. Semi autos are illegal in most if not all hunting countries in Africa.
Sorry, I just meant as a stateside 2nd rifle if you're in love with the round. You can use it on elk and yotes. :)

I didn't know that. Legal or not for Africa, I want one.

I used to be all in love with African Hunting. I wanted to be a PH. The 375 was my favorite round for years, and I ate slept and breathed Africa and the 375, which was about the time that Browning was making it.
Check Gunbroker. there's usually one for sale. Lots of people have no clue what a great round the 375H&H is, and almost noone knows about the BAR in that chambering. It's super cool though.

[H&Hhunter]

Hey H&H hunter -is a standard .50 cal muzzleloader like Jim Shockey uses (as someone noted above) legal to use in all or most countries there if you wish to? I've seen that dude kill cape buff his ML!

Not officially no it isn't and it is nothing more than a stunt in my book. Ive seen Jim's videos where he shoots buff and hippo and dwarf forest buff with his ML. Of course it can be done.

But it is a dangerous stunt with regards to big game. Of course you noticed that in every case he was being backed up by a PH with a heavy caliber double rifle which always mitigates the danger somewhat.;)

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Of course you noticed that in every case he was being backed up by a PH with a heavy caliber double rifle which always mitigates the danger somewhat.

Yeah, I did notice that. :)

[T.R.]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/asianwaterbuffalo.jpg

Couple years ago, I spent a day at Brady Ranch in Florida on a photo safari. Frank Brady told me that he has seen these water buffalo soak up 5 or more 30-06 bullets before toppling over. These were modern Premium bullets! Frank said he much prefers to the client arrive with a bigger caliber such as 35 Whelen or larger!

TR

[koja48]

Dang . . . I'd arrive with extra underwear . . .

[roo_ster]

FWIW, I was somewhat dreading the first shot of my CZ550 in .375H&H. My shoulder was much relieved when I fired the first shot and...it wasn't that big a deal.

Math might say otherwise, but the subjective recoil of the big rifle with the .375H&H was less than many 12ga shotguns I've shot. Oh, it pushed back alright, but it wasn't a nasty, sharp recoil that I have had with light 12ga pumps, O/U, & such.

It has become my favorite sporting rifle, no doubt.

Good luck with your search.

[Poprivit]

Not sure if you would be interested in something this big, but I took a Cape Buffalo last April with a Ruger Magnum in .458 Lott. Kicks a bit, but it sure put the brakes on Mr. Buffalo. It's good for any animal in the world.

[Kosh75287]

I second Saddlebum's suggestion. It's a short(er) action .375 H&H, perhaps for less money. I didn't think that it was legal to shoot Capes with a .375 H&H, since it wasn't .40 caliber. Basing the restriction on energy rather than bore diameter seems to make more sense, in this case. At one time it was illegal to shoot Capes with a .375 H&H, but perfectly legal with a .45 Automatic. Maybe someone got a clue on how to make this a more sensible deal.

[Sunray]

Water buffalo aren't the same beast as a Cape Buff. Cape buffs have been known to track down and stomp people who shoot at them and don't kill 'em right away.
Most African countries have a minimum of .375 calibre for Cape Buff. Try one, if you can, before you spend any money though.
A 6.5 x 55 will drop a moose(and any like animal) like a ton of bricks.

[JShirley]

Check where you'll be. Last I heard, at least one country required over .375 for large DG.

I have a nice Montana 1999 actioned .35 Whelen, and a Remington 7600 in .35 as well, but...not legal for Cape Buff. Oh, well. I've wanted a 1917 actioned .416 Rigby for years, anyway. :D

John

[Tom Krein]

I will agree with most of the others, a minimum of .375H&H is needed for Cape Buff. I wouldn't hesitate to use a .45-70 (handloaded or +p loads from garrett, etc) or my .35 Whelen on Moose...

The new .375 Ruger is very interesting!

Craig Boddington has a couple of rifle books you might find interesting... Safari Rifles and American Hunting Rifles. They are both a good read!

Happy hunting both for your rifles and game!

Tom

[.38 Special]

http://www.orchardphoto.com/d7zo12.jpg
This is a joke, right? I mean, I'm hoping nobody would actually fly to Africa to shoot a housecat with a buffalo gun.

[H&Hhunter]

I didn't think that it was legal to shoot Capes with a .375 H&H, since it wasn't .40 caliber. Basing the restriction on energy rather than bore diameter seems to make more sense, in this case. At one time it was illegal to shoot Capes with a .375 H&H, but perfectly legal with a .45 Automatic. Maybe someone got a clue on how to make this a more sensible deal.

Kosh,

The only country that I am aware of that had a .40 cal restriction was Kenya. Kenya has been closed to hunting for a long time now.

The rest of the countries have a had a .375 caliber and a 4,000 Ftlb minimum for years and years. Some have a 9.3MM minimum (.366 cal) but they all require a minimum of just at 4,000 ft lbs.



This is a joke, right? I mean, I'm hoping nobody would actually fly to Africa to shoot a housecat with a buffalo gun.

.38
That isn't a house cat it's an African wild cat much like a small bob cat with a tail. The point is that the .375H&h is capable of taking stuff this small without blowing it to simtherines. That is the beauty of the cartridge. It'll do that and kill a bull elephant very nicely the next day. It is one hell of versatile round.

[.38 Special]

That isn't a house cat it's an African wild cat much like a small bob cat with a tail. A small bobcat with a tail is a house cat.

Thank God the fellow had his buffalo gun with him. When house cats are involved you never know when the S is going to HTF!

So did the guy do a full mount, and if so, does he intend to get a Dachsund or perhaps a small Schnauzer to complete the set? He can probably save on plane fare, as I have a neighbor with several of the silly things running around his back yard. Our intrepid White Hunter could even pack some bologna in a pocket and then convince himself that he was being charged!

(Sorry. I think I'm done now. Probably.)

[.38 Special]

Oh, wait! I have a picture of my own DGR with a couple of my best trophies.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/Noel3006/30-06.jpg

These were both taken while on safari in deepest Orange County. After a long stalk, I was able to approach these two whilst they were feeding. (It looked like Whiskas, but may have been Fancy Feast).

At any rate, I'm just grateful that I had my A-Square Lion Loads on board, or the situation could have ended badly for me!

And aren't the mounts so life-like?

Oh, and the shoes in the top right corner of the picture were found in the animals' den. I believe they must have come from previous victims, a la "Man Eaters of Tsavo."

The toe pictured at the bottom of the frame was found in the digestive tract of the larger of the two cats. Obviously a fresh kill. Poor bugger.

(Okay, I'm really done now. I mean it.)

ROFLMAO.

[Grumulkin]

Thank God the fellow had his buffalo gun with him.

http://www.orchardphoto.com/l11zse39.jpg

Another choice; the 458 Lott. And yes, it does work for rabbit.

[H&Hhunter]

.38

That one at the bottom of the picture is looking at me like.........Ah crud I'm going to have to say it..:D


LIKE I OWE HIM MONEY......


That other cat looks like he eats real well. Probably the man eater of Orange County. I'd definitely take him on a PAC permit if the opportunity ever comes up.;)

AND of course you know that grumulkin didn't go to Africa to shoot kitty cats with his .375H&H. Sometimes you simply take the opportunities offered at the moment with what you have in your hands at the time.

Nice RSM but it doesn't look very used. It needs some thorn scratches to make it look more DGR and less safe queen.

[Grumulkin]

AND of course you know that grumulkin didn't go to Africa to shoot kitty cats with his .375H&H.

You're right.

http://www.orchardphoto.com/d7zo6.jpg

I had my 375 H&H Mag. along but ended shooting all except 2 animals with my 460 S&W Magnum including a Klipspringer at 180 yards. I didn't want to leave with the 375 H&H Mag. "unbloodied" so used it with solids for Jackal and African Wildcat. With solids, I got less hide damage.

[.38 Special]

Yeah, I'm just having some fun. I just had a mental image of a trophy mount. I'm sure the non-hunting house guests would have had some comments.

And yeah, the Ruger is actually the discontinued Express rifle in .30-06, bought as a set with a .416 Rigby. Being as I'm fairly useless with a rifle they're both still in like-new condition. :o

[.38 Special]

http://www.orchardphoto.com/l11zse39.jpg
LOL!

Ross Seyfried wrote up wrote a piece about shooting jacks with a .577 Nitro. Said that even with solids he ended up with bits and pieces. "Their little hides just couldn't contain the hydraulic displacement" was the quote, I believe.

And you know, there is a thread around here someplace about a fellow with a rat problem. Have any of the .700s been delivered yet?

[MCgunner]

OMG, shootin' cats and horses will get you prison time in Texas, ya know....ROFL! Nice horse. :D

[koja48]

You're downright proficient with that 460 & it DOES perform! Congrats!

[86thecat]

And yes, it does work for rabbit.

Bunny's head blowed up!!

Grum, What scope are you using on your Lott?

[mtngunr]

My sub-7lb old Sako AV 375 H&H is about as fine an all-around rifle as can be imagined....wonderful accuracy, shoots to the sights no matter the load, and if you can't put it down with a 300gr solid, you need more practice.....30-06 trajectory with 270's.....recoil about on par with slugs out of a 12ga riot-gun, perhaps a bit lighter.....

[TimboKhan]

I would think that time and repeated success would speak well of the .375H&H.

Now then, without accidentally starting some sort of weird caliber war, I have a question in response to this statement:

Couple years ago, I spent a day at Brady Ranch in Florida on a photo safari. Frank Brady told me that he has seen these water buffalo soak up 5 or more 30-06 bullets before toppling over. These were modern Premium bullets!

If you were going to use a .30-06 to shoot a Cape of Water Buffalo, wouldn't you want to use solids? I konw virtually nothing about shooting either, so for all I know thats a dumb question, but it seems to me that with a caliber not necessarily suited to a big animal like a Cape Buffalo would benefit from the penetration that a solid offers.

[Grumulkin]

Grum, What scope are you using on your Lott?

First of all, I use Talley quick detach rings so I can easily change scopes or use the iron sights. I have 2 scopes I use on it. The one used for the rabbit was a Leupold VX I 2-7X scope. This one works well with 350 grain bullets but doesn't have enough adjustment for 500 gr. bullets. My other scope for the Lott is a Nightforce 2.5-10X scope.

If you were going to use a .30-06 to shoot a Cape of Water Buffalo, wouldn't you want to use solids? I konw virtually nothing about shooting either, so for all I know thats a dumb question, but it seems to me that with a caliber not necessarily suited to a big animal like a Cape Buffalo would benefit from the penetration that a solid offers.

I think you're right.

[moojpg2]

enough said