I caught the Top 10 battle rifles for the Military on Milittary channel
the other day, and it gripes me that they do the best fighting ships as well
as FIghter planes and tanks, but Service pistols are not featured.
So, without getting into specific models/makes of handguns - what would
be 5 areas of criteria to judge a top 10 list for service pistils.?
and for each area rank them on a scale of 105 with 5 being the highest
Let's first say Reliable is a given for a servidce pistol
1. Caliber / NUmber of rounds Capacity
2. Length of service
3. Numbers Produced/Ease of of Manufacture
4. Innovations/Manual of Arms /how easy to use
5. Was it copied by others ????
I can think of candidates
Service life - 1911 - 1983 = 72 years USA
Browning Hi Power
1935 Belgian - and the Brits also say 1940 - 1980?
'75 to PResent and certain y copied to a great degree
Svc LIfe 37 yeaars
SHort Service life but easy to manufacture with it's stamped parts
and the first full size DA/SA
Glock M17/19 - list some countries that have it.
What was the French pistil they adopted after backing out on the P-35? It ended up influencing the Sig 210 frame/rail design.
WHat was the best Soviet pistol?
THe Brit Webley get a big nod for service life as well as the
M1917 deserve at least honorable mention?
Perhaps we could come up with a list where those guys on the History channel would consider our list?
If you enjoyed reading about "Discuss the Criteria for Military Service Pistols" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
June 26, 2008, 03:37 AM
In no particular order, I think the 1911, Nagant 1895, P38, P08, Schofield (Russian AND US), Colt 1873 SAA, Webly Mk. 6, Hi-Power, would be on top. That's 9 if I count both versions of Schofield. And I'll explain why in a second.
1911--Amazing service life, incredible pistol and design, great history.
Nagant 1895--Served for a long time with the Soviets and some other interesting countries, bizarre design, durable.
P08--One of the first Semi-Autos adopted.
Schofield (US)--Quick reload capability, more "outside-the-box" thinking than another SAA ripoff.
Schofield (Russian)--Same as the above, but it's more sexy looking. And, IIRC, .44 Russian was almost a precursor to .44 Special.
Colt 1873 SAA---First cartridge-loading design for the US.
Webly Mk.VI .455--It's just spiffy, and served the English pretty well.
Hi-Power--First hi-cap semi-auto, used by both sides in WWII.
That leaves one spot open for later thought. I know for certain what it wouldn't be, but I"m not here to start a flame war or "anti"-thread. I'd explain more on the criteria, but it's near 3AM, and I'm tired.
June 26, 2008, 07:09 AM
FWIW, the Hi-Power was still in use by the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) as late as 2006, although it's being replaced by the Glock 17(?).
The British Army was still using the High Power as late as 1998; I don't know about after that.
And, I saw 2 M1911A1s in a U.S. Army Arms Room just yesterday, here in Korea.
Freelance Tax Collector
June 26, 2008, 10:45 AM
As I understand it, the reason the US military doesn't adopt weapons like the Glock for mainstream use is the lack of an external safety. Those tend to be a big deal for criteria.
Carried a Berretta, it's a good gun, but not for me.
June 26, 2008, 04:12 PM
THe COlt SAA is graded down for being a 5 shooter to safely carry
as well as only a 25 year general issue weapon.
Wasn't there a Russian semi-auto the TT33?
The luger is downgraded for it's manufacturing nature of fitted parts,
and in the field it must have had to have been kept very clean.?
points scored for
Browning HI Power - 1rst Gen Issue Hi Cap.
P 38 - firs full size gen issue DA/SA
CZ 75 - doesn't really breakground but it combines
the High Cap. with DA/SA Cocked & Locked as well as the
Sig 210 like slide inside the rails.
S&W DA Revolver - if the M1917 were also combined with the
S&W .38 Victory model it offers as much use as the Webley
since in many ways the webley stuck around because the Brits were
too broke to replace it.
1911 - where do you start from the 1914 Norwegian, 1927
Ballester Molina to.... and the design was copied into other platforms
with the 9mm used. Polish Vis Radom etc.
Browning Hi Power - Canadian Ingalls, Argentina, Hungarian,
heck the Chinese copied the 1911 BHP and P-38
CZ 75 - Italian, Turks, and Israel besides other Cxech companies
June 26, 2008, 04:20 PM
I would ad the Tokarev, the Makarov, broom handle Mauser and even the CZ52 for consideration. I will agree the 1911 will be tops. Behind that I feel should be the CZ75 as the 2nd most copied handgun(but I am biased.) Although the P08 Luger has the mystique behind it.
The broom handle Mauser. The Russians liked the round so much they based the 7.62x25 on it for the Tok
The Tok replaced the 1895 Nagant (slowly) and was much more effective
The Mak replaced the Tok
The CZ52 served for more than 30 years so there is service length.
June 26, 2008, 04:59 PM
NO list would be complete without the TOK & MAK.
They fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and numerous other wars.
Half the worlds armies were armed with them from prior to WWII through the cold war & they are still used in limited numbers all over the world.
Probably more of them have been produced then any other service pistol in world history.