[Labinnac]

I noticed last week that this wonderful piece of work is now available on video & DVD.

Has anyone seen it? If so, what are your thoughts?

I know the general story behind it but from reading the back cover it looks to be advertised like it isn't a serious thing. This has be confused because I thought it was supposed to be a serious anti gun film albeit riddled with half truths and outright lies.

Now I'm curious to see it for myself but I'm not going to pay cash money to do so. Whatever will I do?

Seriously, give me some deeper insight into this before I waste my time getting a copy of it and/or actually watching it.

Thanks,
Labinnac

[Keeper]

A lot of it is pure fiction or manipulated so badly it no longer resembles the truth. This is one of many sites that show him for what he is.

http://www.revoketheoscar.com/

[Don Gwinn]

As a documentary, it's excrement.

As comedy, it's funny in places.

I still recommend you see it if you're serious about RKBA. I predict the next generation of gun banners is going to be made up largely of people who saw Bowling for Columbine and it "like, changed my whole world or something, man.":rolleyes:

[Hkmp5sd]

Don't want to see it. I would buy a copy of Moore if he ever should appear on Cops, Scariest Police Chases or Crocodile Hunter, provided he is the subject of the episode and doesn't survive.

[BowStreetRunner]

i kinda want to see if out of curiosity....i tell people it is crap but i havent seen it, so how can i know?
but i would not contribute one dime to Moores coffers by buying it or renting it
BSR

[Labinnac]

I guess I'll have to put on my eyepatch, big gold hoop earring, and let the parrot sit on my shoulder for a while.

Aaaarrrrrgh!

That site was a good read btw. I never knew the depth of the cess pool until now.

[Geech]

I saw the movie. It's supposed to be a humorous documentary, but I never found Moore all that funny. A couple times I cracked a smile, but no more than that. I suppose if I weren't already aware of what a con it was, I might have felt a little different about the movie. I guess it was worth seeing once, just to see it all for myself.

A word of advice, if you've read all the various articles discussing the inaccruacies of the movie, you already know about 85% of the film. I assumed that these articles were just picking the lies out of the movie and there would be some real substance to it, but they almost serve as a complete dissection of the film. It really is just a big string of misleading information.

[Cosmoline]

As agitprop it's a great film. The entire piece is designed to persuade by film making technique. Fast cuts, loud music, and constant motion all keep the viewer from thinking too much about any point that's made. The film even suggests that the KKK founded the NRA! Yet this lie, like so many others, just slip on by.

It works well on folks who don't know any better, which may be why foreigners seem to love it. Worth watching if only to see how the next generation of antis are being created.

[wingnutx]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

has a thorough fisking.

[Standing Wolf]

I don't support anti-Second Amendment bigotry in any way, shape, or form.

[cobb]

I rented it this past weekend. I think all gun owners should watch it and see how the anti-gun folks like to really twist things to make their point.

I also learned something new, I didn't know Kmart supplied the ammo for the shooting at Columbine and it was their fault.:eek:

[SodaPop]

I know a guy that use to talk about buying Glocks, 5yrs ago. Now, he wants to ban all assault rifles and handguns (after seeing BFC).


In high school, his younger brother was one of those 'straight edge' guys that ran around condemning everyone for having sex before marriage, eating meat, drinking alcohol................... now he's living with his girlfriend.:rolleyes:

:scrutiny:

[greyhound]

Have y'all heard there's a "Teacher's Guide" included on the DVD special features?:cuss:

[Justin]

I would suggest that anyone who's serious about RKBA should see this movie, if only to be able to debate antis over it.

As for getting ahold of it without giving MM any dough, well, given that he's a Marxist I'm sure he would have no qualms with people passing around copies of the movie.

ARRR indeed.

A warning, though; while it's a wonderful example of emotional agitprop, Moore's storytelling technique is both scatter-brained and slipshod, at times going off on tagents that make absolutely no sense.

[Steve Smith]

Huzzah to Justin! You made e go to Dictionary.com today!

[Baba Louie]

Oh yeah,

even tho I hate giving the man any money... ya gotta know your enemy.

Even Sun Tzu thought so...

From Book III The Art of War

18. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle.

I'd say that the enemy here has read Sun Tzu or at least evolved their strategy into the necessary thought process the Chinese General taught.

Book I

18. All warfare is based on deception.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder,
and crush him.

21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
If he is in superior strength, evade him.

22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to
irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.

24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected.

25. These military devices, leading to victory,
must not be divulged beforehand.

26. Now the general who wins a battle makes many
calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought.
The general who loses a battle makes but few
calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations
lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat:
how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention
to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.

(End of brief Sun Tzu quote-fest)

Do any of the above notations seem germaine in the War On Gun Control?

Others are watching this film; giving 13 minute standing ovations... 13 minutes folks... FWIW even the President of the US doesn't get many 5 minute standing ovations... awarding little statues of man and sword...

It does shape peoples thoughts, at the very least it helps them form or strengthen their basis of opinion.

Only by really watching it and discussing it aloud, amongst yourselves ... yelling at the screen if you must ... will you be able to appreciate what you/we are now up against. Then, when next you enter into spirited debate with someone opposing a 2nd amendment POV and agreeing w/ BFC, you can sandbag them. Moore's use of ironic bovine excretia in an attempt to make... a lot of money and maybe a statement.

I always like to join in discourse with people who don't have a clue... for a bit. Why should the enemy be any different? One must know where the enemy is coming from and why, before one may effectively head them off at the pass. Even then, any victory is a fleeting one, a delaying tactic only.

And any day you get to read a little Sun Tzu is a good day.

Adios

[Hkmp5sd]

As for getting ahold of it without giving MM any dough, well, given that he's a Marxist I'm sure he would have no qualms with people passing around copies of the movie.

It's been on Kazaa for quite a while. I'm sure he wouldn't mind you downloading a free copy. After all, I'm sure he considers getting his message to the masses is more important than making money and obeying copyright laws.

[Baba Louie]

greyhound,

You make an excellent point sir.

Schools WILL be watching this and discussing it... teaching it...

You'd darned well better buy it and watch it with your kids and get to them first. Invite their friends over, brainwash them, er, I mean, TEACH them as well as your own kids, so that when it DOES come up at school, at least there'll be someone to offer a counterpoint in class.

Darned if ya do, darned if ya don't.

Adios

[Beav]

Can't bring myself to rent it. I get a sick feeling when I pass it up at Blockbuster kind of like when you guys post a link to one of those screwed up forums. :barf:

[Drjones]

Can't bring myself to rent it. I get a sick feeling when I pass it up at Blockbuster kind of like when you guys post a link to one of those screwed up forums. EXACTLY.

BFC is a total joke, and that is the understatement of the century. Moore is the same excuse for a human being who is currently making a film that is supposed to show how the Bush admin. is responsible for 9/11.

Yeah, yeah, know thine enemy and all that....but right now, for me at least, it's not worth the heartburn.

[NewShooter78]

I rented it so that I could argue about it with a few demo's that I know who think he's god's gift to man kind. I'm going to read his book, "Stupid White Males (or Men, I can't remember just now). I found everything in there that was totally about guns, and gun control to be a complete falsety. He makes his point by using the most extreme examples from the smallest percentage of gun owning Americans. He is totally biased, and this is not a documentary as it only shows a one-sided view of the issue. This is what he does. He says that he likes to work in non-fiction, but he in fact takes real life and creates fiction out of it.

I recomend all of you see it one way or another. I'm sure all of you know a left winger out there that will greatfully lend you their copy, as I'm sure they'll be buying it up as fast as they can. You do need to know your enemy, and MM is our biggest enemy in the entertainment industry.

I am also proud to say that I have yet to sell one copy of this where I work (music and video sales at the largest bookseller in the country; you figure it out :D ).



Don

[BigC]

Not One thin dime of my money will go to that walking zit factory.

[BryanP]

I went out looking for a bittorrent link to download an Arrrgghh! Matey! version of BfC just so I could see what people are talking about (no, not even $ to a rental store, thanks). I finally found it but not before having to plow through pages of things like people saying how wonderful it is and how disturbing it is that all these "gun nuts" can get whatever they want. Urp. Sickening.

[Partisan Ranger]

That DVD is good for one thing: target practice!:evil:

[dpsychs]

I gotta side with the "know thine enemy" fellows. I've found that even if you've done all the reading and know all the ways this film is BS, you can't make a credible argument when you end with, "but I haven't watched it." And make no mistake, this one "documentary" will likely have more impact on mainstream attitudes than a couple of decades of politicking. It is important for gun-owners to be able to counter this message.

I recommend buying/renting a copy, and then getting as many of your friends, kids, kids' friends, friends' kids, etc. together to watch and talk about it. Make liberal use of the pause button. Those of you who may be on NetFlix or other rental service, order this one, and hang on to it for as long as possible, making sure that YOUR friends see it (and understand it).

If we all do this, we will not only minimize the impact of this lousy film, we can offer up a lesson to our friends and our kids about the necessity to question the messages about guns put out by the media - and show the extremes to which they will go to tell a convincing lie. All for pennies per viewer...

[Wayne D]

I kinda want to see if out of curiosity....i tell people it is crap but i havent seen it, so how can i know?
but i would not contribute one dime to Moores coffers by buying it or renting it


Ditto

[wingnutx]

Get it fromt he library, or download it with a file-sharing program.

I have kazaa downloading it right now.

[Keeper]

http://www.rachellucas.com/archives/cat_michael_moore_is_a_liar.html

This lady shreds him to bite size chunks

[SodaPop]

I just rented it!

I was expecting it to far worse than it was.


I basically thought it was a blind view of European history (gun violence is lower in Europe even though Fascism and Communism didn't kill anyone).

The Canadians get free health care even though they pay more in taxes.:rolleyes: Lets interview teenagers and see what they think.:scrutiny:

I thought the movie was more about anti-Americanism than guns.

[glocksman]

I went out and rented the DVD so I could watch it again.

Some random thoughts:

Now that I know what to look for (thanks to the hardy site) and have the original Heston speech to compare it to, the clever editing used during that segment and immediately rolling into Tom Mauser's speech about 'Tec-9's aren't for deer hunting' reveals just how contemptible Moore's tactics are.

That's not something a documentary filmmaker does, that's the tactic of a Goebbels protege.


The 'Brief History of the USA' segment is even worse. Moore claims that he wrote it.
But to see it, you'd think it was written by Howard Zinn while tripping out on LSD.

Surprisingly enough, Marliyn Manson seems to have the biggest insight into part of the problem. He comes across as reasoned and thoughtful.

What is surprising is when Moore and Tom Mauser causally dismiss the US's past history and culture as a factor that partially explains why the US is more violent.
Then immediately after that segment, he rolls into the 'Brief History' where he seems to blame it on slavery and it's aftermath. :confused:


Also, it is an antigun movie. A cleverly done one at that.

By his demonizing of the NRA, Moore is discrediting the pro-gun cause.
The NRA isn't the only organization out there fighting for the rights of gun owners, but it is the one that the great majority of non gun owners think of when the phrase 'pro-gun' comes to mind. Moore knows this. Otherwise why the focus on the NRA when he deals with gun groups (other than the Michigan Milita segment)?

When he (falsely) links the NRA to the KKK, Moore is planting that seed in the viewer's mind that pro-gun means racist.

Also, by his 'editing' of Heston and immediately rolling into Tom Mauser going on about Tec-9's, Moore is falsely presenting Heston (and the NRA by extension) as being both belligerent and uncaring.

There's other instances of Moore's outright lies and fabrications about the NRA in the movie. Read the Hardy Law (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html) page for more examples. Every time the NRA comes up, Moore presents it in an unfavorable light even if he has to outright lie to do it.

Discredit the organization, and by extension, you discredit the cause. An old tactic, but an effective one.

From a film technican's point of view, the Heston Denver speech sequence is brilliant editing and is the perfect lead in to the Tom Mauser antigun rally footage.
As propaganda, it's brilliant. The NRA is depicted as uncaring, belligerent bullies.
Moore would have done well directing Der ewige Jude for Joseph Goebbels had he been around then.

For a documentary, it's a joke. :barf:

[greyhound]

I saw it. It was c**p.

Canada good, Europe good, US bad.

White people are afraid of black people.

The media helps promote this fear. (I kinda agree with this one).

NRA = KKK

And so on with the usual leftist garbage. Remember, this WILL be taught in school, and combined with the lack of young people getting into shooting like they used to, is a definate downer for the fight to keep 2A rights.

[NewShooter78]

The NRA should push to not have teachers show this in school. It has no factual basis, and it is nothing more that a propagandist tool. If this is taught in school it should be shown as an example of how not to argue a point of view in a rational, sensical manner.

To paraphrase a movie; Michael Moore's head is so far up his as:cuss: that the lump in his throat is his nose.

[greyhound]

For a spot-on review of Mikey's opus try:


www.rachellucas.com


(scroll down to the August 22 entry)

[MAKOwner]

Whatever you do, don't rent or buy this to put money in his pocket to make more of the same, and encourage others to make more of the same due to his success. If you want to watch it, it can be found all over the Net for download, Kazaa being the easiest most likely.

I didn't think it was as antigun as I had feared, but it certainly wasn't a good "documentary". I caught alot of the mistruths and funny business, but it was interesting to read that hardylaw.net page on it http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html , really pisses me off to think of all the thousands of people who bought this movie hook, line, and sinker. Even to this day I'll occasionally see someone posting about how good it was, and how full of "painful truth" it was on non-gun boards. I can only post up that link and shake my head, luckily many have seen through the crap after being shown how full of BS it was...