Fantastic GP100 D/A trigger pull!


PDA






bestseller92
June 27, 2008, 06:49 PM
I picked up my new GP 100 today, and I must say I'm thrilled with the double action trigger pull. It is quite literally the best DA pull I've ever had on any revolver of any make. Much better than that on my Sp101 (which isn't bad) and better even than the Smith K frames I've owned.

I've put not quite a box full of shells through the GP so far (I've only had it home an hour) but I like it a lot. More shootin' to come this weekend!

If you enjoyed reading about "Fantastic GP100 D/A trigger pull!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Gato MontÚs
June 28, 2008, 10:24 PM
Are you absolutely sure? I mean, I'm a Ruger fan myself, but, uh...

461
June 28, 2008, 11:10 PM
Got one like it myself. Feels like it came through a very good custom shop but I got it brand new. I've had it about five years and it's a keeper in every way.

LeonCarr
June 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
Looks like the rumors about Ruger QC improving are true. Most GPs need a little TLC, dry firing, a spring change, or a combination of all three to get an above average trigger pull.

Good to know things are looking up.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

craig_o
June 29, 2008, 03:28 AM
Got mine two months ago or so. It's smooth as silk.

Jim March
June 29, 2008, 04:37 AM
Huh. Yeah, we're getting a lot of positive reports on Ruger QC lately.

The current upswing seems to have started around the time when the "anniversary guns" started shipping in 2004-2005 era...my 2005-vintage Ruger NewVaq was an excellent critter indeed and others I checked out at the same time passed with flying colors too.

C-grunt
June 29, 2008, 07:35 AM
My new SP101 has a great DA pull. I'd say better than any Smiths I have fired...which isnt a whole lot. The SA isnt as good though. Just not a crisp as the 686.

greener
June 29, 2008, 10:16 AM
I always thought the S&W's had a "better" DA trigger feel. I think I've about decided that they are just different. The GP100 seems to allow you to "stage" the trigger easier than the Smiths. I have a GP100 and there is nothing wrong with the trigger pull. When I first got mine, I thought I was going to have to start doing some work on the trigger. I guess I have, lots of pulling the trigger followed immediately by a bang from the gun. I shoot mine almost exclusively in DA with darned good results.

Dienekes
July 1, 2008, 01:58 AM
I bought a virtually new GP-100 from an estate some years back that someone--never could find out who--worked on the DA pull and put in a trigger stop as well.

The DA on that gun is as good or better than any S&W I have ever tried--just outstanding.

My daughter tried it out for the first time recently and loved it. Best .357 I own.

duallydave
July 3, 2008, 04:36 PM
My GP100 was pretty stiff when new, but after going through it per the IBOK, it is VERY smooth and the stiffness is gone.

If you ask, what is an IBOK - go to rugerforum.net to find out.

Brad Johnson
July 3, 2008, 04:59 PM
GP100/SP101 trigger job in a box...

Wolff 10lb mainspring
Wolff reduced power trigger return spring
A dab of Flitz
A buffer-equipped Dremel.

Dissasemble. Use Dremel and Flitz to polish all internal surfaces. Reassemble with new springs. Enjoy.

Brad

FullEffect1911
July 3, 2008, 05:39 PM
There is just something about those GP100 triggers that I love. For some reason my GP100 has the best DA trigger of all my DA revolvers. So far I prefer it way over my new to me 629's trigger. However I don't believe the 629 has been shot DA that much. So I suppose time will tell.

Ceemack
July 3, 2008, 06:12 PM
Can you quantify "better"? What's the pull weight?

TOGGLELOCK
July 3, 2008, 10:47 PM
NO, YOU DON'T REPLACE THE TRIGGER RETURN SPRING ON A RUGER WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN AN OEM TRIGGER SPRING! You will alter the Transfer Bar Timing. Mainspring replacement is one thing. NEVER the Trigger Return Spring. Also, you need to run the factory bench tests and if you don't know which tests those are. You probably shouldn't be messing with that action!
TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Factory Armorer)

hags
July 4, 2008, 12:47 AM
I've replaced plenty of Ruger trigger return springs. With the possible exception of having to smooth out a too rough action for one of them to function "smoothly" I haven't had any problems.

Other than the sear/hammer hook engagement, the trigger return spring and the "smoothness" of the internal trigger parts determines your single action pull weight and contributes to your DA pull.

:D

hags
July 4, 2008, 12:55 AM
GP100/SP101 trigger job in a box...

Wolff 10lb mainspring
Wolff reduced power trigger return spring
A dab of Flitz
A buffer-equipped Dremel.

Dissasemble. Use Dremel and Flitz to polish all internal surfaces. Reassemble with new springs. Enjoy.

Brad

That's right!

Brownell's sells a Ruger spring set with reduced power hammer and trigger return springs for the GP100.

I used stones and sweat for polishing but the results should be the same. Smoothing out the action parts with a stone or your Dremel is a great way to really smooth out the trigger action on the GP100.
Don't forget to polish all sides of the transfer bar as well. There are a couple of small stamped parts in the trigger group that benefit immensely from polishing.

hags
July 4, 2008, 10:19 AM
NO, YOU DON'T REPLACE THE TRIGGER RETURN SPRING ON A RUGER WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN AN OEM TRIGGER SPRING! You will alter the Transfer Bar Timing. Mainspring replacement is one thing. NEVER the Trigger Return Spring. Also, you need to run the factory bench tests and if you don't know which tests those are. You probably shouldn't be messing with that action!
TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Factory Armorer)

HUH?

could you explain this....


DON'T REPLACE THE TRIGGER RETURN SPRING ON A RUGER WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN AN OEM TRIGGER SPRING! You will alter the Transfer Bar Timing.

Maybe this is an opportunity for me to learn something but this doesn't make any sense. The transfer bar is physically connected to the trigger. When you pull back the trigger, the transfer bar moves up. When you release the trigger the transfer bar moves back down. Simple.
Nothing is reset until the trigger returns to the forward position. Unless your trigger is not returning to the forward position, which would make this a moot point, then there is no "timing" issue.
I may be wrong but I think a little clarification of this statement is in order.

An OEM strength trigger return spring will insure that no matter how rough the action is that the trigger will return forward. Most actions are not this rough and they all can be smoothed out greatly just by polishing the internals. You don't need a mirror finish just remove rough spots, flashing and contact points.

At least this has been my experience.

:D

PzGren
July 4, 2008, 11:17 AM
My GP100 has been worked over competely and the trigger is not bad. I shoot it only in D/A. Almost all my S&W have a better D/A pull . Nevertheless, among my S&W revolvers there are differences, too.

But then, the GP isn't shot a lot, I got maybe 5,000 rounds through it and still hope for it to improve.

Virginian
July 4, 2008, 11:45 AM
Completely agree with hags, there is no way a spring change is going to do a thing to the timing of the transfer bar, or anything else. Everything is physically connected, and the "timing" is controlled by the original dimensions. And, also as hags said, factory springs are strong enough to compensate for any sloppy workmanship or factory 'oversights'. If you make sure everything is smooth and there are no screw ups, you can utilize much softer springs for a much better trigger feel.
If single action accuracy is your ultimate goal, you will not want a softer hammer spring, because it will increase lock time, but a softer trigger spring won't hurt a thing. Otherwise high tech target rifles wouldn't have trigger pulls measured in ounces.

PzGren
July 4, 2008, 11:58 AM
NO, YOU DON'T REPLACE THE TRIGGER RETURN SPRING ON A RUGER WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN AN OEM TRIGGER SPRING!

Well Buddy, I did. I polished some parts and the action is improved. They don't teach you that at Ruger since their lawyers know how employees ( and a few shooters) screw up:D.

Stainz
July 4, 2008, 12:13 PM
My .454 SRH (same lockwork as a GP100) had a DA trigger to brag about - or at least I thought so... until I got my first S&W - a 625MG in .45 Colt. I got as far as the hammer spring in my SRH - and reverted back to the OEM due to ftfs - not very desireable anytime, but when you expect a .454 'Crack' and get a wimpy click, it is un-nerving.

I did trade the OEM springs in my 4" SP101, which has a down-sized GP/SRH lockwork, for the kit's weakest components. It popped all primers, too... and, after too much TLC (Thanks to Iowegan's instructions on the Ruger forum!), it became a real treat to shoot. Still cheesy sights and over-sized chambers convinced me I didn't need it, however.

Operationally, the trigger return spring resets the trigger - and holds the takedown plunger in place. Your 'timing' is affected as it would be with a S&W trigger block return spring - stronger means a faster return - and follow-up shot. Jerry Miculek believes in a weak hammer spring, and Federal-only primers, and strong return spring in his speed revolvers.

In any case, I, the S&W fanatic who recently divested himself of his last four Ruger revolvers (Okay, I still have an Old Army... and a MKII.. they were gifts from my wife.), tried current GP100s at different dealers around town - oddly all at $489 - and found them identical in quality, both physical appearance and lockwork action. Sad, huh?

Yes, I agree - this type of QC has been missing. Triggers that don't feel like moving a broomhandle around in a bucketful of sand have been overdue. I first noted the smoother lockwork in the new 4" .44 Redhawk. Having just sold my 5.5" SS .45 Redhawk, I was astonished. The GP100 was even slicker - and lighter. I am impressed... maybe just enough so...

Nope, I just bought a new 627 Pro and a LNIB 64 - I have 4" .38 & .357M covered, I suppose. Still, if they resurrect the partial lugged grey 4" SS GP100, I'm there!

Stainz

hags
July 4, 2008, 12:46 PM
Operationally, the trigger return spring resets the trigger - and holds the takedown plunger in place. Your 'timing' is affected as it would be with a S&W trigger block return spring - stronger means a faster return - and follow-up shot. Jerry Miculek believes in a weak hammer spring, and Federal-only primers, and strong return spring in his speed revolvers.

Yes, but that's not at all what was implied by the statement:

NO, YOU DON'T REPLACE THE TRIGGER RETURN SPRING ON A RUGER WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN AN OEM TRIGGER SPRING! You will alter the Transfer Bar Timing.

He didn't say you'll slow down trigger return.

The speed of the hammer return is almost imperceptively changed if all other things are equal. You will have a lighter return and if all internal friction and impedances are removed then the speed of the return change is nominal.

Like I said, these are just my experiences. :D

Dollar An Hour
July 4, 2008, 03:19 PM
I too got lucky with my 3" stainless GP100. It had a terrific trigger out of the box. Purchased nearly 3 years ago.

SP101s, meanwhile, tend to be horrible out of the box.

And yes, Ruger DA triggers invite staging of the trigger more than S&W's which just kinda pull smoothly straight through. It's a matter of getting used to one or the other I guess.

don95sml
July 4, 2008, 04:22 PM
duallydave said:
My GP100 was pretty stiff when new, but after going through it per the IBOK, it is VERY smooth and the stiffness is gone.
If you ask, what is an IBOK - go to rugerforum.net to find out.
This is good advice. Even if you think your Ruger trigger is pretty good, you'd be amazed at how much better you can make it. IBOK stands for Iowegan's Book of Knowledge. You need to register on the Ruger forum to use most of it, but registration is free, just as in this forum. The updated link to the forum is www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/ .

Confederate
July 4, 2008, 06:51 PM
On my Security-Sixes, I've had to reduce the trigger pull, by filing down the shoulders of the mainspring retention guide. Once that's done, then comes the monotonous job of dry firing the gun. After awhile, the gun becomes remarkably smooth and the action does seem like it's been worked on.

Out-of-the-box Rugers improved dramatically by just being played with. I'm not sure I like the Wolfe single action spring (it seems a bit Mickey Mouse), but I've no complaints with mine. No Ruger I've seen will touch my Smith 686 and 629, both of which I've worked on.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/GA-34.jpg

PzGren
July 5, 2008, 12:39 AM
No Ruger I've seen will touch my Smith 686 and 629, both of which I've worked on.


I agree with that ( applied to my guns ) but want to add that I find the action of Ruger's Six Series better than the GP100/ SRH. My Service Six comes very close to the better Smiths.

TOGGLELOCK
July 5, 2008, 08:38 AM
I'll explain this fully. You cannot replace the trigger replacement spring because you can compromise a safety system in the Ruger system. Works like this: Hold the on the assembled T/G (Trigger Housing Group) in your hand. Rock the trigger rearwards and you will see that the spring does very, very little, if nothing to change the overall trigger weight of the action. But here's the thing. There is a factory bench test that checks the Transfer Bar Timing and safety system of the transfer bar. When the trigger return spring is weak, you cock the gun. Pull the trigger with a wooden dowel in the bore and the dowel/pencil should be ejected. Then to test the Transfer Bar Timing do the following. You cock the gun with the wooden dowel/pencil in the bore and tap trigger with a plastic screwdriver handle. The triggger should jump foward and the dowel SHOULD NOT not be ejected from the barrel. In short, when timing is correct, the transfer bar will not contact the firing pin unless you deliberately holld the trigger to the rear when the trigger is activated. Also, you're single action engagement will be insufficient if you don't keep this spring in a given weight. You'll feel a small stub when pulling the trigger. This does not effect the mainspring power and you can check this for sufficiently tuned or balanced. Hey I've even seen a Ruger batter and destroy it's own transfer bar because the double action sear letout was not correct. Transfer bar timing is key! Hammer spring weight is one thing. But avoid screwing around with your trigger return spirng. About all you'll get with the trigger return spring is flat spots and a compromized single action engagement. The hammer spring can be changed and as long as you get firing pin protrusion and good ignition - that's all that matters. It's amazing what you can do to smooth out a Ruger Double Action. But watch your springs and issues like Double Action Sear letout!
TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

hags
July 5, 2008, 10:16 AM
I'll explain this fully. You cannot replace the trigger replacement spring because you can compromise a safety system in the Ruger system. Works like this: Hold the on the assembled T/G (Trigger Housing Group) in your hand. Rock the trigger rearwards and you will see that the spring does very, very little, if nothing to change the overall trigger weight of the action. But here's the thing. There is a factory bench test that checks the Transfer Bar Timing and safety system of the transfer bar. When the trigger return spring is weak, you cock the gun. Pull the trigger with a wooden dowel in the bore and the dowel/pencil should be ejected. Then to test the Transfer Bar Timing do the following. You cock the gun with the wooden dowel/pencil in the bore and tap trigger with a plastic screwdriver handle. The triggger should jump foward and the dowel SHOULD NOT not be ejected from the barrel. In short, when timing is correct, the transfer bar will not contact the firing pin unless you deliberately holld the trigger to the rear when the trigger is activated. Also, you're single action engagement will be insufficient if you don't keep this spring in a given weight. You'll feel a small stub when pulling the trigger. This does not effect the mainspring power and you can check this for sufficiently tuned or balanced. Hey I've even seen a Ruger batter and destroy it's own transfer bar because the double action sear letout was not correct. Transfer bar timing is key! Hammer spring weight is one thing. But avoid screwing around with your trigger return spirng. About all you'll get with the trigger return spring is flat spots and a compromized single action engagement. The hammer spring can be changed and as long as you get firing pin protrusion and good ignition - that's all that matters. It's amazing what you can do to smooth out a Ruger Double Action. But watch your springs and issues like Double Action Sear letout!
TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

Uh?

I thought the transfer bar was meant to be battered.

I don't understand how the transfer bar can be out of time with any one component of the trigger group. It is physically connected to the trigger.

What in the world does the trigger return spring have to do with single action engagement?
I suppose you could argue that you get a better engagement because there is less initial resistance when you're manually cocking the hammer.

The hammer spring can be changed and as long as you get firing pin protrusion and good ignition - that's all that matters

I achieve this regardless of what trigger return spring I use.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the trigger return spring's function is to return the trigger.

I'm not familiar with the term "letout". Could you explain this nomenclature?

hags
July 5, 2008, 10:18 AM
No Ruger I've seen will touch my Smith 686 and 629, both of which I've worked on.

I agree with that ( applied to my guns ) but want to add that I find the action of Ruger's Six Series better than the GP100/ SRH. My Service Six comes very close to the better Smiths.

In single action my Smith 27 and 28-2 are way better than anything I have come across including my Rugers, although they come close.
Double action is another story.

PzGren
July 5, 2008, 11:35 AM
The transfer bar is a drop safety feature and will only allow the firing pin to be stricken by the hammer while the trigger is pulled.

As long as it transfers the hammer blow with the trigger pulled, there is no extra timing necessary.

To reduce the trigger pull it is standard procedure to reduce the trigger return spring weight by anybody working on guns. All the trigger return spring has to do, is reset the trigger and to do so against friction.

If you want to reduce the weight of the trigger return spring, you do not compromise reliability if you reduce that friction by polishing. The reduction of the trigger return force might slow the reset of the trigger ever so slightly but as long as the trigger resets positively it is no problem.

Firing pin protrusion isn't affected by a normal change of spring weights but reliability can suffer from a hammer strike to weak to compensate tolerances in primer hardness.

hags
July 5, 2008, 12:30 PM
The transfer bar is a drop safety feature and will only allow the firing pin to be stricken by the hammer while the trigger is pulled.

As long as it transfers the hammer blow with the trigger pulled, there is no extra timing necessary.

To reduce the trigger pull it is standard procedure to reduce the trigger return spring weight by anybody working on guns. All the trigger return spring has to do, is reset the trigger and to do so against friction.

If you want to reduce the weight of the trigger return spring, you do not compromise reliability if you reduce that friction by polishing. The reduction of the trigger return force might slow the reset of the trigger ever so slightly but as long as the trigger resets positively it is no problem.

Firing pin protrusion isn't affected by a normal change of spring weights but reliability can suffer from a hammer strike to weak to compensate tolerances in primer hardness


Ok, so you said what I said a little more eloquently. :neener:

I really don't know where all this "timing" talk is coming from.
I would dare to say there is no risk or danger in replacing springs as long as they are strong enough to reset the trigger and drop the hammer with sufficient force.

Jeez, how many of us have done this? I don't see a problem with it and there is absolutely nothing mystical about it!

TOGGLELOCK
July 5, 2008, 02:37 PM
The Transfer Bar is sure meant to be "battered". But when the Hammer release is prior to the Transfer Bar fully elevated, edges of the Frame can touch the bar and you get gashes. Look inside the frame. The Transfer bar does not move straight up. Yes, I saw one with small gashes on the front corner. Hammer release before the bar is fully elevated. Not at all a good thing. Should have photoed that one for all the gun board skeptics.
TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

TOGGLELOCK
July 5, 2008, 02:41 PM
Letout is the Adjustment on the Double Action Sear. On a Ruger, done from the top of the part with a 6 inch #2 cut Pillar File. You adjust (file) until you end hammer jump. On a S&W it's done on two surfaces - called the long cut and the short cut. Trigger return spring when weak can be all that stands between the correct speed of the trigger returning and the transfer bar "ducking". Transfer bar is a passive safety and the trigger return when weak will create a flat spot in your engagement. Trust me! Letout is proper adjustment of the Double Action Sear. Yes, that part is handfit and factory controlled for all those that want to tinker with their wheelguns. Although two revolvers work practically the same, the fitting issues could be as different as night and day. You will never see cutting and ratchet equalization or pawl fitting on any so called gunsmithing publications! Home gunsmithing does have it's limits! TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Certified Law Enforcement Armorer)

hags
July 5, 2008, 04:14 PM
At the risk of getting this thread moved....

But when the Hammer release is prior to the Transfer Bar fully elevated, edges of the Frame can touch the bar and you get gashes.

This has nothing to do with the trigger return spring strength. I believe the transfer bar is at full height long before the hammer releases.


Also, if the trigger is returning properly, and that's what we're talking about here, then the "reset" is taking place, period.


Trigger return spring when weak can be all that stands between the correct speed of the trigger returning and the transfer bar "ducking".

Let me just say that you cannot have one without the other. The transfer bar retracts at the same rate as the trigger moving forward. This is because they are physically attached. No?

Transfer bar is a passive safety and the trigger return when weak will create a flat spot in your engagement.

I don't see the transfer bar as a passive safety at all. It's put there by people who don't think I'm smart enought to handle a firearm safely and that they need to protect me from myself.
What engagement are you talking about and, how does the transfer bar accomplish that?


Home gunsmithing does have it's limits!

That's kind of offensive and elitest. It does have it's limits only so far as I cannot afford the same level of equipment that the Ruger factory must own. However, I can tell you one thing, there is no limit to the home gunsmith's QC which, in my experience is miles beyond any factory QC.

As far as pawl (or hand as everyone else calls it) and rachet fitting, I'm tired of replacing these parts so that my SAA stay in perfect time. If the manufacturers wouldn't cut corners so that the guns are easier/faster to assemble we'd all be better off. Ok, so that was a little off topic.

TOGGLELOCK
July 5, 2008, 09:47 PM
First hand knowledge of home gunsmithing, consider this. Another Firearms Instructor had a Ruger Double Action that had action binding. The cause? The Wolff Spring kit that he installed! Yes, the action was binding. "Elitist" "Offensive", come on now. A misfit double action sear can cause damage to the transfer bar and we've seen all types of action binding with spring kits and bad home gunsmithing. You don't see the transfer bar as a passive safety? I suggest you call Ruger Service. Maybe they can enlighten you. Besides screwing up your actions timing with those redundant reduced trigger return springs, you create all types of problems from your single action surface engagement to your transfer bar. One more thing. The transfer bar is not at full height by the time the hammer is released. A misadjusted sear letout will alter the timing of the hammer release and transfer bar topout at hammer release. What does the trigger return spring have to do with single action engagement? Well, for one it provides opposing engagement lock force against the hammer spring force when the gun is cocked. Too light and you'll have absolutely no opposing force to keep the two engagement surfaces tightly locked. You'll get a flat spot and slipping of the two parts when you put the slightest force on the trigger. Action binding, flat spots in the single action letoff? Seen plenty of that with so called home gunsmithing. You also stated: " Firing pin protrusion isn't affected by a normal change of spring weights but reliability can suffer from a hammer strike to weak to compensate tolerances in primer hardness". That is completely false. The first thing we look at when a ignition problem crops up is the hammer spring. Firing pin protrusion is definately affected by too light hammer springs, but nowhere near the problems you get with reduced trigger return springs. If you choose, make sure your work is always double checked by somone that does have the training.
TOGGLELOCK (Certified Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

PzGren
July 5, 2008, 11:25 PM
Home gunsmithing does have it's limits! TOGGLELOCK (Ruger Certified Law Enforcement Armorer)

Oh my!

In Germany you can call yourself a gunsmith after a three year training program, but cannot go into business for yourself until you can obtain a master degree. How would those dudes laugh about police armourers with two weeks training!!!

I am a home gunsmith, if you so want, but I can caustic and rust blue guns. The Kuhnausen S&W revolver manual explains how to fit and adjust the hand, which is the S&W equivalent to the pawl in a Ruger. It is easy to follow for any intelligent person and becoming officially a gunsmith, does not automatically increase anybodies intellectual capacities.

hags
July 5, 2008, 11:40 PM
Well, first let me say that as a dealer I can sign up for and attend these so called armorer's classes. From Glock to Sig, Stag/CMT to Bushmaster and Colt.

Most that I've been invited to are 2-3 day courses. The "law enforcement" classes with the exception of say pistol training or a carbine class are exactly the same as the "normal" classes.

I'm not impressed by the police armorers I am aquinted with. Routine maintenence and parts replacement is the name of the game.

So, unless you're a top name pistolsmith you're probably working for Gander Mountain or a police department who seem to be the biggest employers of "gunsmiths". Neither of which is impressive.

hags
July 5, 2008, 11:58 PM
First hand knowledge of home gunsmithing, consider this. Another Firearms Instructor had a Ruger Double Action that had action binding. The cause? The Wolff Spring kit that he installed! Yes, the action was binding.

So, are you a firearms instructor or gunsmith, maybe both.

I'm sure the action was binding, if you simply install the lighter springs they may not have the force neccesary to overcome the resistance and friction caused by rough and gritty internal parts that, as already mentioned should be polished.



You don't see the transfer bar as a passive safety?

Reread my response, it was tongue in cheek and aimed at Ruger's PC policies.


Besides screwing up your actions timing with those redundant reduced trigger return springs, you create all types of problems from your single action surface engagement to your transfer bar.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You can actually check single action sear engagement after you cock the hammer. The spring weight either holds it there or it does not.

You'll get a flat spot and slipping of the two parts when you put the slightest force on the trigger. Action binding, flat spots in the single action letoff? Seen plenty of that with so called home gunsmithing.

Sure, I'm sure alot of guys think they can get away without a fixture when stoning the sear/hammer engagement surfaces. If you change these angles and their relationship then you have greatly affected the trigger pull. No mystery there.

You also stated: " Firing pin protrusion isn't affected by a normal change of spring weights but reliability can suffer from a hammer strike to weak to compensate tolerances in primer hardness".

Wasn't me.


Firing pin protrusion is definately affected by too light hammer springs, but nowhere near the problems you get with reduced trigger return springs. If you choose, make sure your work is always double checked by somone that does have the training.

The trigger return spring affects firing pin protrusion? Not too many
Ruger trained gun techs around here. I have done work on hundreds of firearms. With the exception of trying to reduce trigger pull weight, creep and pretravel on my stock 10/22 before buying a KIDD I've never had a problem.

TOGGLELOCK
July 6, 2008, 12:25 AM
Hags, you're only motivation is to argue. Nothing more, nothing less. While some manufacturers offer Armorer Schools. I believe Ruger is only open to law enforcement.
TOGGLEOCK (Certified Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

bestseller92
July 6, 2008, 12:27 AM
Hags: Love the GP100 you sold me.

Yes, I'm Corpsepowder on GunBroker.

Fishman777
July 6, 2008, 01:45 AM
I am happy that your GP100 trigger was great out of the box. My trigger was extremely smooth, and after about a year, it is even better.

PzGren
July 6, 2008, 08:01 AM
There is only so much you can learn in any school. To be a good 'smith, your brain has to be connected to you hands. If you try to draw a doggie for a kid and you hear it delightedly say : "moo-moo", you might never get there.

I did not go to armourer's school, I did not learn stockmaking but this is my last project and the grip panel sits tight even without a screw.
Oh, and I am ex-military!!!

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/gripsinprogress03001.jpg

hags
July 6, 2008, 10:26 AM
Hags, you're only motivation is to argue. Nothing more, nothing less. While some manufacturers offer Armorer Schools. I believe Ruger is only open to law enforcement.
TOGGLEOCK (Certified Ruger Law Enforcement Armorer)

Not really, I'd have prefered a direct response to my questions and responses.

You state that changing the trigger return spring is a no no, that is contrary to my experience and contrary to hundreds of people I've talked to first hand and probably thousands that have done it.

You say that the trigger return spring weight influences the single action sear engagement. Ok, explain how!

I have credentials that allow me to qualify for "law enforcement" only armorer schools. I can even write them off on my taxes. I have received unsolicited invitations to attend many armorer schools. As of right now I just do not have the time to do so. I'm sure that attending these schools would be beneficial to myself and certainly my business.

For right now I enjoy selling and sharing my sport. I enjoy dealing with people who have the same passion and interest in shooting sports.

hags
July 6, 2008, 10:31 AM
There is only so much you can learn in any school. To be a good 'smith, your brain has to be connected to you hands. If you try to draw a doggie for a kid and you hear it delightedly say : "moo-moo", you might never get there.

I did not go to armourer's school, I did not learn stockmaking but this is my last project and the grip panel sits tight even without a screw.
Oh, and I am ex-military!!!

You made those from scratch? WOW, very, very nice!!!!!

I too am ex military.

hags
July 6, 2008, 10:37 AM
Hags: Love the GP100 you sold me.

Yes, I'm Corpsepowder on GunBroker.

My pleasure, I think the Ruger GP-100 is the best revolver going right now. Either the 4" or 6" you just can't beat the build quality, trigger, sights or accuracy. They handle the heavy loads with ease.

Thanks again for your business. :D

Stainz
July 6, 2008, 11:44 AM
I am dreadfully sorry, but new SRH/GP100s and SP101s were 'rough', trigger wise, due to the spring's dragging on that hole's roughness - and that would continue with Wolff springs having been installed, too. In fact, it would become more noticeable with the new lighter DA pull. The fault isn't the wound spring - made of wire - it's the poor QC and allowable roughness in the hole it drags against! To 'improve' a Ruger - at least until recently - required proper-sized drills (or reamers), mops with Flitz, etc, rifflers (I used shaped emery boards!) and TLC. See the Ruger Forum for detailed instructions. The lowered trigger return spring helps on both ends - it secures the trigger group on one end and returns the trigger on the other. And, unless I am experiencing severe dementia, that hammer block is directly connected to the trigger. The hammer spring only change, without cleanup of the roughness/burrs, is of little value. Fortunately, some, certainly not all, 'cleanup' can occur with an extended clean/oil/dry-fire repeat regimine.

Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I've been an amateur metalworker since getting my then antique SB 9" lathe over three decades back. I have a small mill, too. I, too, was in the service (USN '69-'72). I also have credentials... I am a retired college instructor. I've been to a few 'schools'... but this is a hobby forum - and I am definitely a hobbyist 'gunsmith'. I try to remain open to new theories... but I find your discussion re the 'timing' and trigger return spring, as many others have, a bit difficult to accept.

Now, back to my original post re the 'new' GP100s - I really was impressed. I'm not about to sell a S&W to obtain one, of course, but they are nice - and certainly less expensive.

hags
July 6, 2008, 03:41 PM
Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I've been an amateur metalworker since getting my then antique SB 9" lathe over three decades back. I have a small mill, too. I, too, was in the service (USN '69-'72). I also have credentials... I am a retired college instructor. I've been to a few 'schools'... but this is a hobby forum - and I am definitely a hobbyist 'gunsmith'. I try to remain open to new theories... but I find your discussion re the 'timing' and trigger return spring, as many others have, a bit difficult to accept.

I'm assuming this wasn't directed towards me. :(

ceadermtnboy
July 6, 2008, 04:34 PM
In my opinion, Ruger has a nice trigger pull but it is very different from the S&W. I have never seen a Ruger GP-100 that was as fast in double action mode as the S&W. The same goes for the Colt Python. For that reason if you are wanting a competition or combat revolver, I think you would be better served with a S&W. I own both, but like my S&W trigger actions much better than the GP-100 I bought six months ago. The GP-100 is a great truck,hunting, or bedside gun and I have more confidence in it lasting through thousands of rounds, so I am glad that we are privaleged to have two great American made revolvers to pick from.

TOGGLELOCK
July 6, 2008, 05:28 PM
Yes Hags, attending the school would be beneficial to you. I seem to recall only one school that offers non law enforcement personel. The Revolver school is given by Ruger on a limited basis. I seem to remember our Armorer Instructor speaking of giving a class at the Colorado School of Trades. He also told me that many of the Gunsmiths had been enlightened about many issues dealing with parts replacement and proper repair protocol.

Question #1 for all our hobby gunsmiths: You overadjust your Double Action Sear - What mechanical problem will you notice and what changes will you see in double action? Single action?

Question #2: A new Double Action Sear is installed. How can you tell if it needs to be fit?

My learning went up tremendously since attending my first Revolver Armorer School and close to 500 hours later - a sure am still learning. :)

Gunner4h1r3
July 6, 2008, 08:45 PM
I also have one in SS with a 4" barrel and the trigger pull in DA is smooth as butter. The SA is crisp as it should be. Good gun to have and built like a Mack truck.

TOGGLELOCK
July 6, 2008, 11:15 PM
Was great being at the factory and seeing Ruger Revolvers of all sorts getting the Serial Numbers stamped on the Frame. Just sitting in the assembly area watching Fitters install parts and assemble. I was truly in heaven. Love the Heat Treatment Facilities with the large tanks of Argon Gas with caution "Danger Do Not Insert Any Part of Body into Furnace" "Suffocation can can result"!

Seancass
July 7, 2008, 02:13 PM
I've had my GP100 less than a year. it's got around 1000 rounds through it and many more dry fires. The trigger on it is so bad that it should probably go back and get checked out. I've said this before, but about once every other cylinder it'll jam up and be impossible to pull the trigger in DA or cock in SA. Then a very slight nudge to the cylinder and it'll be fine. Needs checked out. About a week ago, i did find a round that this gun LOVED. before i messed up it put 5 rounds at 2.5 inches at about 30-40 yards. with a 4in bbl, thats awful good for my shooting. I guess this gun is a love/hate thing for the time being.

PzGren
July 7, 2008, 02:41 PM
Was great being at the factory and seeing Ruger Revolvers of all sorts getting the Serial Numbers stamped on the Frame. Just sitting in the assembly area watching Fitters install parts and assemble. I was truly in heaven.

Hey, I know what you mean, I visited many breweries. One just outside the mile-high:).

It is always good and useful to see an assembly site, to get training there is another great benefit.

I would not turn an offer down to tour a gun manufacturer and have to remember to ask a friend for a favor, who has the necessary connections.

Fishman777
August 25, 2008, 04:19 PM
I wouldn't say that my GP100 has the best factory DA trigger, but it was excellent.

My GP100 was every bit as smooth as the 686p that I handled the day that I bought my 4" GP100. The GP100 trigger pull might have been a tiny bit heavier than the 686, but it was very close. After I felt the trigger and saw that the finish was clean, I pulled out the plastic and bought the gun on the spot. I've felt a few Ruger triggers that were absolutley horrid, and I've felt ones that were really, really nice. I've seen a lot more nice ones than bad ones in the last nine months or so.

Drgong
August 25, 2008, 04:39 PM
I ALMOST got a GP100 the last time I went gun shopping; it had the best DA pull I ever have seen. Alas it was a little large for my needs

mgregg85
August 25, 2008, 06:44 PM
I dryfired a new gp-100 at a gun shop and it felt a lot better than my old one.

Big Mike
August 25, 2008, 07:11 PM
Interesting, my 2006 SP101 has a heavy trigger pull. I would clasify it as neither silky or smooth, but consistent.

BigBlock
August 25, 2008, 07:52 PM
My new GP100, dated July 30 '08, also has an amazing trigger. For anyone to say their Smith came with a better one would be an insult. DA is light and smooth, and the SA is better than the SA trigger in my Blackhawk! You simply can't make a better trigger than that, you can only copy it.

GP100man
August 25, 2008, 07:57 PM
i`ve seen a GP that was home trigger jobbed & miss fired 50% of the time when shot DA.
found that the owner had (shined )the da dawg too much & hammer would let go way before the transfer bar was in place .
ive always said the acid test is to shoot a ruger as slow as you can pull the trigger DA


GP100man

If you enjoyed reading about "Fantastic GP100 D/A trigger pull!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!