Bad guys with a bullpup


PDA






Spyvie
June 29, 2008, 03:21 AM
I don't know what kind of rifle this is in the pic, but thats a criminal in the act of holding up a Circle K. The same guys are suspected of shooting up a couple of sheriffs cars and hitting a deputy in the arm last night. The really bad news is they got away.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9729331

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0628/20080628__cd26copshot2~p1.jpg

Police are searching for two armed men who fled on foot following a car chase in which the two men fired numerous gunshots at two Douglas County sheriff's deputies, striking one in the arm, authorities say.
The identities of the shooters, described as white men in their 20s, is not known. The pair abandoned an older Honda on and authorities say they believe they escaped the area on foot.
About 2,400 residents in the area were called this morning and warned to lock their doors and windows, stay in their homes and report any suspicious activity. Several roads were closed while SWAT team members searched
"We have two suspects on foot who are armed," said Lt. Alan Stanton, spokesman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. "That poses a high danger to people in that area."
In the afternoon, deputies reopened Highway 105 and Wolfensberger Road near Sedalia and allowed people to return to their homes.
Douglas County investigators said tonight the two suspects were also believed to be linked to a June 11 armed robbery at a Circle K store, at 23 West Wolfensberger Road, at about 3:30 a.m.
In that robbery, two white men in their early 20s, dressed in fatigues, held a store clerk at gun point with a rifle.
Police have released a still surveilance photo of that robbery.
The first suspect in that incident was described as a blond man, about 6 feet, 1 inch tall. The second suspect was described as having light brown hair, about 5 feet 10 inches tall with a black handgun.
Deputies told 9News that both men in the June 11 incidents were described as having slight builds and wore green bandanas over their faces. One of the men had a British accent, authorities told 9News.
In today's incident, deputies received a call of suspicious activity in the Silver Heights subdivision near Castle Rock at 3 a.m., Stanton said.
While two deputies responded in a marked and an unmarked car they got a second call of a burglary in progress, Stanton said. They were told that two men got into a car and were driving away from the burglary.
The deputies spotted a beige Honda and tried to pull it over, but the men fled, driving west on Wolfensberger Road.
The men then fired gunshots , shattering their own back window and striking both of the deputies' cars, injuring the deputy driving the unmarked car, Stanton said. The officers did not shoot at the suspects, he said.
The marked car had bullet holes in the windshield and the roof, and the unmarked car had a hole in the roof.
The injured deputy, whose identity has not been released, was taken to a local hospital where he was treated and released, Stanton said.
The Honda then stopped in a ditch just south of Highway 105 and the men ran into a nearby forest. Officials later found two 5-gallon and two 10-gallon gas tanks in the trunk of the Honda, which had been stolen.
"A couple of bad guys are in the area and (deputies) have no idea where they are at," said Allan Seitz, who has a home near Jackson Creek and was not being allowed to return to his house.
Larry Lewellyn said he also was barred from returning to his house on Oakland Drive this morning.
"Residents should be patient," Lewellyn said. "You have to be concerned about your safety. It's a different kind of society."
Emergency calls were sent out to homes within in a three mile radius of the area where the two men escaped. The calls notified residents that the men were still at large, and believed to be armed.
SWAT officers, deputies and police officers from Colorado Springs and Castle Rock went door to door warning people about the two men, Stanton said.
Highway 105 was closed from Highway 67 in Sedalia to Tomah Road and Wolfensberger Road was closed from Coach Line Road to Highway 105, Stanton said.

If you enjoyed reading about "Bad guys with a bullpup" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
moga
June 29, 2008, 03:29 AM
"Residents should be patient," Lewellyn said. "You have to be concerned about your safety. It's a different kind of society."

You can say that again.

I could be wrong, but I think the two bad guys on the lamb have more to worry about from the good folks from town more than the other way around.

Picard
June 29, 2008, 03:32 AM
I don't know what kind of gun that is, but is looks like the same one used by Jeremy Clarkson in this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XHHoYl1DuY4&feature=related

Skip to 1 min to see it.

PTK
June 29, 2008, 03:36 AM
Bushmaster M17S bullpup, looks like...

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as19-e.htm

Spyvie
June 29, 2008, 03:37 AM
It looks like one of these to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95

A QBZ-95, not that I've ever heard of it.

EDIT: Or maybe not...

PTK
June 29, 2008, 03:39 AM
Incredibly unlikely that it's that firearm - of the two, the M17S is more available and the QBZ-95 is virtually unheard of because it never made it into the USA (as far as I know), while the M17S was produced here.

That, and it has the M17S' ventilated foreend and carry handle optic mount. ;)

iowajones
June 29, 2008, 03:48 AM
No matter what the exact rifle is, bullpups are very distinctive guns. Combined with the dude exposing his haircut like that hopefully somebody will recognize him from either a gun store or range and they'll catch up with him.

H088
June 29, 2008, 04:18 AM
Are these guys total morons? Risking there life and freedom for a couple hundred bucks?

Some serious lack of judgment.

RX-178
June 29, 2008, 04:25 AM
With how they're dressed, and the weapons they've chosen to use, I think it's safe to say these guys aren't doing this for the money.

They're getting a thrill out of playing 'tactical terrorist'.

Gord
June 29, 2008, 04:32 AM
My vote goes to "airsoft."

You'd have to be pretty stupid (and rich - in which case, you probably wouldn't be knocking off Circle Ks) to use a bullpup as a holdup weapon. Expensive, rare and thus easily identifiable...

HK G3
June 29, 2008, 04:34 AM
Ya Airsoft was my first thought as well. Then I read the part about them shooting the officers' car.

RaspberrySurprise
June 29, 2008, 05:29 AM
I'm amazed the article didn't mention them wielding "assault rifles" or some other fear mongering nonsense. What is this, mall ninjas gone wild? I guess this is what happens when you mix video games, guns, and a criminal ethic.

PTK
June 29, 2008, 05:32 AM
In Colorado, they won't last long. :)

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
June 29, 2008, 05:43 AM
The Honda then stopped in a ditch just south of Highway 105 and the men ran into a nearby forest. Officials later found two 5-gallon and two 10-gallon gas tanks in the trunk of the Honda, which had been stolen.




So the couple hundred bucks they stole, should almost let them "break even" with the amount of Gas they purchased before the robberies? Maybe they thought the gas prices were "Highway Robbery"? Im here all night folks.

FCFC
June 29, 2008, 09:13 AM
About 2,400 residents in the area were called this morning and warned to lock their doors and windows, stay in their homes and report any suspicious activity.

Wouldn't it be appropriate to include a comment about firearms in the warning? Something like:

There is a pair of white males, in their 20s, who have just committed an armed robbery in this area. These men are armed and dangerous. One of the males reportedly has a rifle. You are warned to lock your doors and windows, stay in your homes, and to have ready access to your firearm for self-defense if you own one. Report immediately any suspicious activity you may observe.

Avenger
June 29, 2008, 02:43 PM
They didn't necessarily shoot at the officer's car WITH THAT RIFLE.

Spyvie
June 29, 2008, 03:20 PM
They didn't necessarily shoot at the officer's car WITH THAT RIFLE.

No, but reading between the lines it's hard to figure how a couple of guys with handguns could hold two sheriff's deputies at bay and manage to escape. They got hits on the LE cars while shooting backwards from a moving vehicle.

DoubleTapDrew
June 29, 2008, 03:30 PM
If the bullets that struck the LEO's cars were handgun, I'd vote airsoft. The pic is blurry but it almost looks like one of those bullpup AK rifles:
Compare:

http://ak47websites.com/images/system/norm.php?67E8F-00-6-8-07-010.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0628/20080628__cd26copshot2~p1.jpg

If they did use the rifle in the car they can add "with hearing damage" to the list of characteristics.

Sergeant Sabre
June 29, 2008, 03:32 PM
With how they're dressed, and the weapons they've chosen to use, I think it's safe to say these guys aren't doing this for the money.

They're getting a thrill out of playing 'tactical terrorist'.

A pretty safe bet.

This must be because of the Heller ruling! The blood is flowing already! If only the case would have went the other way, these kids wouldn't be doing this!

Z-Michigan
June 29, 2008, 03:49 PM
Looks like a Bushmaster M17S to me. They'll be caught soon.

RX-178
June 29, 2008, 04:27 PM
Now that I think about it.... a semblance of 'tactical' clothing (I see what looks like a vest of some sort, gloves, a headlamp...), semi automatic 'assault rifle' with a bullpup layout and a reflex sight... they rob a convenience store, then shoot at police, and it's timed conspicuously close to the Heller ruling.


Well, convenience store robberies obviously didn't pay for their wardrobe. Almost makes you wonder if any Violence Policy Center or Brady Campaign money contributed to their choice in weaponry.

yesit'sloaded
June 29, 2008, 06:19 PM
What caliber for crooks with a bullpup?

TexasRifleman
June 29, 2008, 06:21 PM
Airsoft for the intimidation factor, a real handgun in the pants in case things go way south?

Seems like an odd choice, I'm thinking toy.

yesit'sloaded
June 29, 2008, 06:26 PM
I would too except for the hits on the cars. Maybe some crooks saw Heat too many times and thought they could rob a gas station the same way with a different ending. Shooting at the cops like that means they are either crazy, stupid, or unfortunately good at what they do. The economy might be bringing rise to a new generation of motorized bandits.

Leanwolf
June 29, 2008, 07:32 PM
HO88 - "Are these guys total morons? Risking there life and freedom for a couple hundred bucks? "


There are plenty of bad guys out there who will cut your throat for five dollars and never even think twice about it.

L.W.

Scratchy
June 29, 2008, 09:46 PM
These morons are the reason I chose to protect myself.

4thPointOfContact
June 29, 2008, 11:30 PM
I'm going with a Bushmaster M17 or M17s as well; lack of forward sight base, plus the 5 ventilation holes on top of the receiver.

NeoSpud
June 30, 2008, 12:08 AM
I'll put in my vote for Bushy as well. The front vent holes on first glance made me think L85... good luck getting one here! Yeah, I'm pretty confident that it's the M17

Compare it to this photo (from Oleg's site, coincidentally!)
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/23193-3/bushmasterbullpup6746.jpg

guntotinguy
June 30, 2008, 12:18 AM
I have a 1975 Bullpup AK...nope thats not it...I agree it LOOKS like a Bushmaster M17Sand it looks like they almost wanted to be 'id'd' by the pic.

Stupid is as stupid does...this is why I am glad I have my CCW.

PTK
June 30, 2008, 12:28 AM
Of course it's an M17S. How could any of you doubt me in the first place? ;)

tntwatt
June 30, 2008, 12:36 AM
no doubt in my mind that it's a Bushy Bullpup.

PercyShelley
June 30, 2008, 01:52 AM
Freaky. I saw an M17S not too long ago in the southern Denver-Metro area in a store.

Obv. they're not so rare that I would think it's the same one.


Also, I'm betting real thing. I don't know that an airsoft version was ever made!

PTK
June 30, 2008, 02:12 AM
Percy: I see them for sale fairly often in this area, since October I've seen a dozen or so. Seem to be popular.

I also see them at the ranges I visit, too.

PercyShelley
June 30, 2008, 02:21 AM
Seem to be popular.

I also see them at the ranges I visit, too.

Indeed? I was under the impression that they were never particularly common, and they are no longer manufactured either.

I wonder if this has anything to do with all the police I saw on the roads tonight?

9MilMan
June 30, 2008, 10:47 AM
I'm an airsoft aficionado and never have I ever seen or heard of an M17s being in production or ever being released here in the U.S. or overseas in Japan or China. The only bullpups in airsoft are the Steyr AUG, the FAMAS and I think there's an L85, but they are rare. There has never been any sort of M17 on the airsoft market. Those guys robbed a convenience store with the real thing. Never have I heard of this rifle until this topic, but I may look into one as I like the idea of a bullpup.

gym
June 30, 2008, 12:18 PM
It looks to me that they may be practicing for something bigger.Possibly getting down their tactics and angles. Also checking response times.

grimjaw
June 30, 2008, 12:20 PM
Looks like Airsoft to me.

jm

J Star
June 30, 2008, 12:25 PM
I'm with Drew, looks like an AK bullpup. Good criminal weapon, cheap gun, cheap ammo.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 30, 2008, 12:30 PM
I think it looks more like an AK bullpup than an M17S. But the picture lacks enough clarity to say for certain. Also could be airsoft, too.

jerkface11
June 30, 2008, 12:30 PM
Yeah AK bullpups are so cheap and easy to find that everyone knocking over gas stations has one. We'll ignore the AR mag sticking out the bottom of the thing.

Spyvie
June 30, 2008, 12:43 PM
Another story, not much more info yet.

"What concerns us are the assault weapons and the military style," Stanton said. "They were wearing ballistic vests."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jun/29/search-still-2-robbers/


Two men wanted for a residential burglary and the shooting of a Douglas County sheriff's deputy over the weekend are the same suspects believed responsible for a brazen store robbery earlier this month using assult weapons and wearing bullet proof vests, police said Sunday.

"That's our concern from a safety standpoint," said Lt. Alan Stanton, spokesman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. "These individuals are a danger and we need to make sure they are apprehended."

Deputies have been working nonstop pursuing leads since the men fled early Saturday morning after crashing the car they stole and disappearing into the a rural wooded section of the county southwest of Castle Rock, Stanton said.

The Saturday incident began when deputies responded at about 3 a.m. to a burglary in progress in the Silver Heights subdivision near Castle Rock. During the pursuit along Wolfensberger Road, the suspects shot out the rear window of the stolen car and fired on two deputies.

One of the deputies was wounded in the arm as the chase neared Wolfsenberger and Colorado 105, Stanton said.

The pursuit continued south and east of 105 until the stolen Honda crashed on Dakan Road five miles west of 105, he said.

The injured deputy was treated and released, he said. Deputies set up a perimeter and made 2,400 calls through the emergency notification system to residents, warning them to lock their doors and report anything suspicious.

Sunday, police became convinced the two men in their early 20s were also responsible for the 3:30 a.m. armed robbery of a Circle K convenience store in Castle Rock on June 11.

"What concerns us are the assault weapons and the military style," Stanton said. "They were wearing ballistic vests."

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/spyvie/20080628__cd26copshot2p1.jpg

chris in va
June 30, 2008, 12:59 PM
My vote is for the Bushmaster too. Look at this pic closely, you'll see all the features line up. Ejection port, 223 mag, top handle, where the barrel sits and the pic rail. Note the bottom picture has 5 holes on top...same as in the vid capture. That seals it for me.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9192/30900sanh3.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7776/bushmasterm17s2df2.jpg

Now what's scary is these are young guys dressed out in expensive combat gear. A) where did they get all this stuff (bought it legally??) and B) why rob a silly convenience store with it? Something's up, hope everyone is on alert out there.

BTW, do you think the LEO's are aware what they are using?

Bullseye57
June 30, 2008, 01:13 PM
From the picture, it appears that BG-1 is sweeping BG-2 with the muzzle of the rifle as he covers the surrendering clerk.

R,
Bullseye


http://guntalk-online.com/images/guntalk_logo_sm.jpg (http://guntalk-online.com/forum/index.php)

J Star
June 30, 2008, 01:15 PM
The picture is blurry, and half of the gun is against the black floormat in the background, so it's hard to say.

Having said that, I appreciate you living up to your screen name, Jerkface. I'm sure you can tell the difference between a 30 round AR mag and a 30 round AK mag from that picture.

jlbraun
June 30, 2008, 01:24 PM
Jstar, he might be a jerk but he's right. It's definitively a Bushmaster M17s. That magazine doesn't have the pronounced curve of a 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 magazine.

SN13
June 30, 2008, 01:29 PM
It does look like he's sweeping the other dude with his barrel, but look closely, he seems to be tipping it upward as he does... maybe to avoid pointing it at his buddy.

polik6887
June 30, 2008, 01:32 PM
for all the people saying that these guys arnt commong crooks because of the gun, perhaps it was stolen. then again cool looking guns probably go for bigger bucks on the black market.

Spyvie
June 30, 2008, 01:35 PM
for all the people saying that these guys arnt commong crooks because of the gun...

The gun, the vests, and the fact that they shot up the cops and got away are all pretty uncommon for common crooks.

Cyclimus
June 30, 2008, 06:31 PM
Hasn't been mentioned yet but from what I've seen of this it appears that these two might have had some military or police training. I concur that it does seem he is elevating his barrel to avoid sweeping his accomplice which is a very unconscious thing someone with military training would do. I also agree, this seems to be a practice run for something... these guys are outfitted for some serious mayhem.

cxg231
June 30, 2008, 07:15 PM
Almost makes you wonder if any Violence Policy Center or Brady Campaign money contributed to their choice in weaponry.

:neener: ;)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2112/2272556897_e989648cb2.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/novena/2272556897/)

The Wiry Irishman
June 30, 2008, 09:14 PM
Huh. Not often you see rifles used in holdups.

HK G3
June 30, 2008, 09:19 PM
I'm just surprised this isn't being carried by national news outlets to further their "Zomg guns are bad and skeery!" stance.

TexasRifleman
June 30, 2008, 09:22 PM
I'm just surprised this isn't being carried by national news outlets to further their "Zomg guns are bad and skeery!" stance.

It confuses them. They expect everything to look like an AK47 and they are not sure how to respond when it doesn't.

jerkface11
July 1, 2008, 01:37 AM
That magazine is WAY too straight to be an AK variant. If you can't tell that you aren't getting enough range time.

As for the media expecting everything to look like an AK I don't think that's it. They don't even know what an AK looks like in the first place. Half the time when they say AK47 the picture is an SKS or FAL.

usmarine0352_2005
July 1, 2008, 01:42 AM
Not too long before these guys get caught.


I give them until Tuesday or Wednesday before their caught.


:fire:

4v50 Gary
July 1, 2008, 01:45 AM
Concur. I hope they're caught and that weapon confiscated.

justin 561
July 1, 2008, 03:03 AM
I surprised only 1 person even thought it was stolen. It is most likely stolen, anyone who buys a gun like that from a local dealer is going to be identified pretty quickly. Chances are the gun is stolen, there is NO way this is airsoft, as I have NEVER seen or heard about any M17S airsoft rifle. Again, my bet is stolen. This gas station stick up may have been for something bigger, a lot of banks get robbed in Col. or maybe a Jewlery store.

jackdanson
July 1, 2008, 04:16 AM
Yeah, that hair and gun is going to lead to an immediate catch of these guys.

Mp7
July 1, 2008, 04:32 AM
The HEAT-DVD should be banned...... itīs just too dangerous IMHO

Dksimon
July 1, 2008, 04:32 AM
It does seem like they are wearing an overload of gear to knock off a gas station.

Most idiots that rob a gas station usually put pantyhose or actual panties on their heads.

I agree, Its probably practice for a more lucrative heist.

If you enjoyed reading about "Bad guys with a bullpup" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!