[c-bag]

I've read a lot of posts in this forum and i've noticed i don't see a lot of people talking about S&W autoloaders.

my question is, is there something wrong with their line of semi-autos in terms of function, do people shy away from them because of their political cowtowing, or are they simply a ho-hum gun that don't have much to offer.

thanks for helping out a newbie:)

[9x19]

The ones I have owned functioned fine, though they are somewhat "clunky" to me, their newest guns are severly over-priced, IMO, as well as being from a company with questionable politics, again, IMO.

Overall, they are definitely in the ho-hum stage. These days, I prefer Ruger's polymer framed semi-autos to the current S&Ws.

[firestar]

do people shy away from them because of their political cowtowing, or are they simply a ho-hum gun that don't have much to offer.

Yes and yes. Also, there are better guns for the money if you are talking new.

I think Ruger and S&W autos are sort of in the same catagory. They are both reliable and well made but most aren't tack drivers and are rather boring. Nothing wrong with S&W autos but most of them don't get people too excited either.

If I see a 3913 at a good price, I would snap it up but the full size guns don't do much for me.

[Al Thompson]

S&W has a bad rep with autos. The M39/59 pistols were OK with ball ammo, but truely sucked with JHPs. Over the years though, S&W fixed all the problems and the 4 digit autos are highly refined and work very well.

But, between poisioning the well with the 1st and 2nd gen pistols and the sell out, S&W is in a bad place for sales. The Sigma fiasco didn't help either.

I would buy a 3rd gen S&W (used) cheerfully. These pistols have great accuracy and run well. Look for the ones with a 4 digit model number. (5906, 6903, etc.) There are a couple of latest generation models with 3 digit model numbers, just post the model and we can clear things up if you want to buy one.

The 5906 I have will shoot with any SIG made and has served me well.

HTH

[Standing Wolf]

It's an engineering, manufacturing, quality control, and customer service thing. Smith & Wesson wouldn't understand.

[Poohgyrr]

Well, it's not like any of us here have strong opinions or anything. Picking which opinions (and the reasons) to agree with is a personal thing.......

I like some of Smith's auto a LOT. The 3900 series (include the 908's) are great 9mm's. I like the later 5906's and the 5906TSW's(no rail). I understand the old S&W asked Novak no less for help on revamping their old three digit series autos (like the 659's). Smith's are very dependable, reliable, accurate, great pistols. I just happen to prefer Hi Powers. Some of Smith's autos are too blocky for me.

As far as politics, well I would have to boycott Ruger and several others as well for the rotten things they have done in the past. I will not knowingly let the antigun politicians trick me into helping them. So I say prove your political beliefs by voting those politicians out of office. Anything else is hot air.:banghead: :cuss: :fire: ;)

[Spackler]

I've owned several, all have been great right out of the box (something I can't say about my Sig P225).

Overpriced? Maybe. I haven't bought a new one in several years, so I haven't bothered to price them. I did see a new value-series 908S for $429 today. Seemed like a fair price to me.

I look at my 4013TSW next to my P225 and I can't see a difference in build quality. And my 4013TSW ran right from day one.

[HSMITH]

Too big through the grip for the caliber and/or capacity, bad grip angle, bad politics, and putting a safety up in the slide is a hanging offense IMO.

For the most part it is the really poor ergonomics for a smaller handed shooter that keep me from owning one. If your paw is big enough to operate one there are some SMOKIN deals on used ones out there right now. A compact DA/SA might get a second look from me but that is about it.

[agony]

It seems that one of the long-standing gunshop clichés goes something like this; "I like S&W revolvers, but wouldn't ever get one of their autos."

Sadly, I believed this rhetoric blindly. Until I picked up an old-school 5906. Granted, it's heavy and a beast to CCW. The ugly rabbit-eared rear sight, though adjustable, leaves a little to be desired.

But what a trigger! DA trigger is the best I've ever tried. And the groups are fanfreakintastic!

Mags seem reasonably priced, and are built like tanks. Some issues with the older grips...some tended to break on impact. Take-down isn't too bad; re-assembly is a little annoying at first.

Love 'em or leave 'em, but I've changed my tune about them.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pcc1e1715704037ede9dd1b61fe9d900a/fc7e3cf7.jpg

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Before I was able to afford SIG's, I owned and fell
in love with a blued Smith & Wesson 39-2, 9m/m.
When finances got a bit better, I bought a NIB
nickel 39-2; that was quite honestly the most
beautiful handgun I've ever seen or owned!:uhoh:
Later, after lusting after another nickel 39-2; I settled
on a nickel model 459. Being wider to accept the
double-stack magazine, it felt really huge. The sex
appeal just wasn't the same!

Finally, as times got really good I moved up to a
SIG-Sauer two-tone P226 9m/m that I bought NIB.
Now, I have put my trust in a West German SIG-
Sauer 9m/m P228; complete with high capacity
magazines.

I have also read good reviews on Smith's .45
caliber model 4506. A retired police chief I know
still swears by this firearm; even though he owns
many more.

I have absolutely NO experience with Smith's newer
self-loader's; so I will defer to other members who
might shed some light on the subject.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[10-Ring]

S&W semi-auto's are nice guns if the grips fit you :cool:

[caz223]

I bought a 5904 used for $239, and it came with two factory 15 round magazines.
I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but it WAS reliable.
I could reliably miss the target most of the time.
That said, it always went bang.
It digested loads that would give my CZs a bellyache.
I got rid of it as soon as I could.
I now have several SIGs in 9mm, and they are not for sale.
I will only consider a smith auto as a gun when there are few options available, like in 10mm. (Wish they still made the 10xx series.)
I do have many of smith's wheelguns, and of the many I have, only one gave me any problems at all.
Having only owned one smith auto, I won't condemn the whole line.
I won't actively seek out smith autos to buy, or to trade any of my guns for a smith auto, but they can't all be bad.
Can they?

[SouthpawShootr]

Nothing wrong with them. I have eight. A good amount of S&W bashing goes on in this forum, so I suspect that many S&W lovers post over at www.smith-wessonforum.com. Don't get me wrong, I love this forum, but this is the last place I would post a question about S&W autoloaders (except for maybe www.glocktalk.com). I don't put alot of round through six of my S&Ws, but none have jammed that I can recall. My favorites are my 5946 and 6906 and I shoot either one or the other everytime I go to the range.

[Coronach]

I carry a 4506-1 on duty. The gun is reliable. It is combat accurate. My complaints are:

1. Size & weight. Its freakin' huge. It dwarfs a 1911, and has the same magazine capacity. I mean, ***? Who thought that was a good idea?

2. Grip. The grip is narrow with a bad angle and a straight backstrap. Or, if you replace the grip with a hogue (I did), it is now fat with a bad angle and straight backstrap. Neither one really works for me, but the latter is better than the former.

3. Ergonomics designed for trolls. With my hand in firing position I cannot manipulate the safety, the slide stop, or the magazine release. Hey, at least they're consistent. You'll have to shift your grip to do anything besides fire the gun. :rolleyes:

4. The DA/SA trigger is...interesting. The DA pull is like dragging a dufflebag down a dirt road....long, gritty and tiring. The SA is much better, but compared to a truly nice SA trigger...well, lets not go there.

5. Muzzle flip/high barrel axis. One would think that a boat anchor of a gun like this would at least soak up the recoil, but due to the high barrel axis it tends to flip. Nothing uncontrollable or uncomfortable, but it does slow down the follow up shots.

Now, once you come to grips with all of that, you do have a very reliable shooter. My gun has jammed 4 times, I think (I'm over 20k), and never once with duty ammo (Hydras). It will go bang when you need it.

Mike

[fastbolt]

There's nothing wrong with the current "generation" of S&W TDA pistols.

I was VERY dubious when I learned we were going to transition to the "new" 3rd generation models in 9mm back in 1989. I was a die-hard Ruger & Colt owner when it came to pistols, and had only just accepted that my issued 686 would reliably function as a replacement for my issued 66 (that was in the days of the firing pin/bushing "upgrade", as well as a few other QC issues).

Since that time we've experienced something like upwards of a million rounds of 9mm, 45 ACP & .40 S&W being fired downrange for training & qualification ... and have seen some of our pistols used in actual shootings ... and all without significant problems. All firearms are going to experience parts failures from time to time. That's the nature of machines. We don't consider our parts failures to have been significant, especially for the number of weapons we have in service, and which mostly date from 1989/90.

The CHP hasn't exactly been displeased with their 4006's, either, according to the folks I talk to from time to time.

As far as Customer Service? I find their Lifetime Warranty for their current production firearms, and free shiping both ways in the event warranty work is necessary, to be reasonably decent for such things. I was discussing this with a stocking L/E dealer once, who has handled S&W and other brands. He's currently a stocking Glock L/E dealer ... And his thoughts were that S&W has the BEST customer and dealer service in the industry, hands down. Maybe he's in a position to have an informed opinion ... maybe.

Over-priced? Well, the Value Line compares favorably to other "less expensive" models of major manufacturers ... and the TSW line compares favorably to other higher-cost models. It also depends on where you're located, to an extent. Want to talk over-priced around here? Just price an HK USP or a SIG ...

Accuracy? It's more the shooter than the weapon ... at least until you start to reach the upper levels of skills and training. Sure, some weapons may be "easier" for some folks to shoot than others ... but that's just as much a training issue as an "objective" ergonomics consideration.

Ergonomics? Personal preference ... although necessity & adaptability can sometimes go hand-in-hand, if need be ... Also, no matter how nicely ergonomic the weapon may be, you can still find the shooter who just refuses to learn proper grip techniques, and insists the handgun fit his/her hand like a hammer or a baseball bat.

Levers, safeties, decockers, assorted control levers and magazine release buttons? A mixture of training and personal preference ... assuming you have the luxury of "preference" in the first place. Fine a skilled and knowledgeable person that prefers one design, and we can find another person just as qualified that prefers another ... and they're both "right".

Politics? I don't have the luxury of integrating my personal political philosophy with my safety equipment, and even if I did, I wouldn't willingly accept lesser quality equipment just to salve my social preferences.

A lot of people are "followers", especially when it comes to their pride of material possessions. They may seek some measure of validation in their ownership of things, and find comfort in being part of a "group" which agrees with their choices in life ...

Some people are just "brand name" conscious ... Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge ... but can't offer much in the way of immediate, current analysis between them when it comes to actual technical and reliability considerations. They must all be doing something right, or they wouldn't all still be in business ...

Some folks simply find comfort in owning what "respected" groups, entities and agencies have chosen to own ... trusting that such a selection by a respectable group automatically implies quality and wisdom.

I've become very impressed with my issued and personally owned S&W pistols ... I feel like the Maytag repairman when it comes to working on them, and I enjoy shooting an embarrassing number of rounds through them ...

Luck to you ... and why enjoy owning only one brand or design? Unless that's your choice ...

Are they the ONLY firearms I'd ever consider owning? Of course not ...

[MikeJ]

I purchased a 5906 around 1988 that came from a special run with brightly polished flats and ugly fake wood grips. I changed out the grips to the standard black delrin ones for aesthetic reasons and in every way I love this gun. It has a fantastically smooth DA trigger pull that is every bit as good if not better than any of my other DA/SA guns. It has been a great gun with zero malfunctions and fits my average size hands perfectly. My own observation of one of S&W's problems was when they were coming out with a new gun almost every week. I think they needed to concentrate on regaining the confidence of gun buyers that were skeptical due to poor reviews of their earlier models. I believe this could have been accomplished by promoting the quality of a select group of pistols rather than overwhelm the buying public with too many choices and not establishing a few guns with excellent reputations and model recognition. Think of this in terms of Beretta, Sig, CZ and others. Just my take on it, Mike

[Coronach]

Fastbolt-

Your statements re: customer service for LE used to be dead on, and maybe still are in your area. My department, however, is experiencing some problems with this. S&W is no longer making the 4506, and are being less than helpful with servicing our weapons. Apparently they want us to shift completely to a different platform.

Well, we might be. Glock.

Mike

[Sludge]

Well, I have a 5906 that I got in 1990 I think. It is the only handgun I have that has never had a malfunction if the bullets went bang. I normally play with a Glock and a 1911, and a XD at our IDPA matches, but I have on occassion took the 5906, and while some gave me greef over bringing it, it performed nicely. I still prefer the other handguns, for various reasons, mostly ergonomic, but that old 5906 is a good dependable gun in my book.

[Preacherman]

As others have mentioned, the ergonomics on the earlier-generation S&W pistols weren't the greatest, and the triggers were iffy at best. The third-generation guns are better in these respects.

My biggest beef about them is the @#$%& magazine safety! I want my carry guns to go BANG! every time I pull the trigger. If I have to do a magazine change while covering a downed BG, I want the option of being able to fire another round if I have to make him stay down. I can't do that with a pistol that has a magazine safety - so, I don't buy 'em.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Again Folk's-

While we are on the subject of Smith & Wesson
auto-loader's, what is your thought's and opinion's
on the Smith & Wesson model 669? I have always
envisioned this weapon as the perfect "hideout
gun" for plainclothes undercover narcotics officer's.
Some of you folk's that perform this dangerous duty
may want to jump in and share some experiences
you have had with this, or similar weaponary?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Big Mike]

My used police trade-in 6906 from KY Imports has digested almost 800 rounds in the past few months without a hitch. Last weekend I ran lots of CorBons through it and they proved to be very accurate. I find it is able to conceal very well and I like that. HTH, Mike

[VG]

what's wrong w/ S&W autos? I've read a lot of posts in this forum and i've noticed i don't see a lot of people talking about S&W autoloaders.

my question is, is there something wrong with their line of semi-autos in terms of function, do people shy away from them because of their political cowtowing, or are they simply a ho-hum gun that don't have much to offer. thanks for helping out a newbie
There are always a few people on every forum who post a lot, so the forum takes on a particular slant. Buying Smith & Wesson semi autos wasn't/isn't politically correct in some circles. Yep - that term cuts both ways - to me it means "groupthink."

S&W had a big LEA presence - which should make very little difference to most private owners. LEA's buy [often] different guns, sometimes with specs that aren't the same as civilian offerings, and the economics are wacky. Glock gave free guns to some departments when they realized they could take their old firearms in trade and sell them for more than their production cost - a great way to gain market share.

Smith & Wesson customer service is the best in the industry for us civilians, followed closely by SIG. Some PD Armorers are happy with them, and some are not - which is always true about all brands, just cruise over to Glocktalk.....

Smith & Wesson designs are not "me too" and there are a number of innovations they've produced over the years. Their manufacturing expertise is impressive and they are major suppliers of parts to other manufacturers.

Lo and behold, the free market tends to push prices where they need to be. S&W sales are booming, and the S&W1911 is selling like hotcakes at around $675 +/- $50. Buying an M1911 is a lifestyle choice (like buying a Harley) so that's perhaps not representative. But most shops sell a lot of Chief' Special 9's and .45's, 3913's, 910's, and SW1911's. Their Performance Center pistols are really nice.

If you want factual information about the S&W semi autos, as others have suggested, go to the S&W forum. They offer good value for the $$$. Simply put, my CS9 has been flawless.

http://www.capinc.com/files/cs9_and_target.jpg

[mlk18]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Smith & Wesson autos. In fact my first 9mm was the S&W 915. Since then I have purchased several more Smiths; 915, 908, 3954 and 5946. And I am looking to buy a 4586 right now. Every Smith & Wesson I have ever owned or fired has been accurate and reliable, with top notch fit and finish, good ergonomics and great sights / magazines. The DAO trigger-pulls put almost every other gun manufacturers DAO triggers to shame. And parts / accessories are everywhere. There are some haters out there who just bitch to bitch, but I say you can't go wrong with a Smith (and I am primarily a Glock fan). That is unless you buy one of their poly-framed guns, the Sigma was a failure in my opinion and the SW99 is following suit.

mlk18

[Mastrogiacomo]

It's part political for me so the only exceptions I make are with the revolvers, specifically the 686. The autos are uglier than Glocks and I don't like the trigger pull. My choice is Beretta, Glocks, and maybe a Sig or two. Why bother with the S&W auto when there are so many other better choices?

[VG]

The autos are uglier than Glocks

Sir, that is not possible. But to each their own....

http://www.smith-wesson.com/Products/Firearms/pc/images/952.jpg

[Blueduck]

2. Grip. The grip is narrow with a bad angle and a straight backstrap. Or, if you replace the grip with a hogue (I did), it is now fat with a bad angle and straight backstrap. Neither one really works for me, but the latter is better than the former-Coronach

Third choice would be to simply order the standard S/W grip with curved backstrap. Tried one on my 4506 as well as the Houge. Ended up right where I started with the flat stock grip, but can see where people might like the curved model.

[Tamara]

My only complaint about most of them is that they're so... so... average. They have average trigger pulls and average accuracy, they have great reliability, but so do most other name-brand autos, so they're average again there. They don't have the grip ergos and smooth decocker of a SIG, or the lightness of a Glock or USP, or the Italian film star looks of the Beretta 92, or the uber trigger and heritage of a 1911... they're just kind of... well... vanilla. :uhoh:

Some exceptions:

I think their Third Generation single-stack guns are top-flight, especially the xx13 series. I'd put the 3913, especially the slickly-packaged LS, in the first tier of single-stack toting 9mm's. The 69xx double-stack compacts are pretty handy little packages, too.

[Ky Larry]

I think Tamara has hit the nail on the head. They remind me of a Ford Taurus. They have no bad habit or good habits. They do exactly what they're supposed to do but nothing more. They don't make you mad but they don't excite you.

[ialevy]

I have nothing but love for my 952. But the double stack Smiths never did it for me.

[caz223]

I agree with Tamara for the most part, I re-read the posts, and there ARE smith guns that yank my crank, but they are few and far between.
Examples include: CS9, 952, PC945, 10XX series. And the venerable 669 which I forgot I liked so much.
A magazine a few years back updated the ASP design, and used a 669 as their base gun.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

My 1066 is one of the best guns I own, period.

Superb trigger, DA and SA. Magic balance. Ultra-reliable. Novak-style nightsights. I LIKE the ergononmics, believe it or not. I have average-to smallish hands, too. I got used to slide safeties with my Automags, so I like 'em fine. I like the mag safety as a "kill switch" copncept, but I otherwise never notice it.

The thing is unstoppable on full-house 10mm for hundreds of rounds for me, I got it used, and internally it shows almost NO wear and tear.

I guess I'm not surprised. It's a third-generation single-stack, just like all the rest of the good ones.

I think I'll get a 4506. And a 1006 if I can find one. Smith makes a grand 10mm.

[agtman]

Gotta agree with Hand_Rifle ....


If there were 2 kinds of 3rd Generation autoloaders where Smith really got it "right," it was with their 45XX- and 10XX-series pistols. (Can't speak for the double-stack guns, like their 5906s).

My 10mm 1076, which I've carried and shot for years now, has been flawless in reliability, and is very accurate with a variety of 10mm loads, both mild and hot.

A more recently acquired 1006 has thus far proven equally reliable, and I believe it may demonstrate just a bit better accuracy than the 1076, but I'm withholding further judgment as I'm still testing it with different loads. (Presently awaiting a shipment of MCNETT's toasty DoubleTap 10mm ammo
http://www.doubletapammo.com/main_site/index.html )

Smith did indeed make a grand 10mm pistol. And their 45s I've fired over the years weren't the least bit shabby either. :)

:cool:

[VG]

My only complaint about most of them is that they're so... so... average. They have average trigger pulls and average accuracy, they have great reliability, but so do most other name-brand autos, so they're average again there. They don't have the grip ergos and smooth decocker of a SIG, or the lightness of a Glock or USP, or the Italian film star looks of the Beretta 92, or the uber trigger and heritage of a 1911... they're just kind of... well... vanilla.

S&W manufactures from scratch more than 80 handguns. Few of them are clones ala Kimber Springfield et al - most are original designs. They make budget lines like the 908/910 and "Smith & Walthers", the "standard" products like the 3913, the Tactical series with more and better features and fitting, and the premium pistols from the Performance Center. And that's not focusing on revolvers. With a product line that broad, their center mass almost defines the average.

[Tamara]

S&W manufactures from scratch more than 80 handguns. Few of them are clones ala Kimber Springfield et al - most are original designs.

That only does them any good if they're original designs that folks want to buy.
They make budget lines like the 908/910 and "Smith & Walthers", the "standard" products like the 3913, the Tactical series with more and better features and fitting, and the premium pistols from the Performance Center. And that's not focusing on revolvers. With a product line that broad, their center mass almost defines the average.

I didn't kick your dog, I merely offered my opinion on the average third generation S&W auto. Look, I bleed blue & white; I own twenty-three S&W wheelguns; I work at a S&W stocking dealer. I know what their product line is. I just find most of them dull.

I have no problem recommending one to someone who wants one, I just think they're a little too pedestrian for my personal tastes. (Perhaps this feeling isn't all that uncommon, as all the middle-of-the-road 3rd Gen Autos seem to have disappeared from the 2003 Catalog; nothing left but Value Series guns, TSW's, the LS and CS guns, Smith & Walthers, and the Stigma. (I don't give the TSW's much longer, either, unless they replace that hideous grafted-on rail with an integral one; I've got a 3913TSW and a 4006TSW growing cobwebs in the showcase as we speak...)

[Hamonrye]

I have had fantastic customer service from S&W. Not one complaint.

[DigMe]

Me too...amazing in fact. The one time I had to use it I received my pistol back with new barrel and mags WITHIN 1 WEEK! Pistol has been flawless since.

brad cook

[Berg01]

Two very good values in CCWs that I've seen are the S&W 457 in .45 ACP,and the 908 in 9mm. Very good triggers out of the box (with the potential to be outstanding with an action job), excellent sights, very accurate, and reliable as the day is long!

[AndABeer]

nuttin wrong with them, the 10mm flavors are THE most reliable pistols I have ever used, they even feed empties when I want to practices misfire drills not that I've ever had a misfire with good ammo

recently replaced the grips on my frame decockers from the curved backstrap to the palmswell style (didn't know they existed until recently), and I defy you to find a better feeling pistol (to me)

DA trigger is smooth as a baby's rear, SA is crisp and light, shoots very well when I do my part

God and my own skill willing, I WILL take a deer this year with my 1026 as it handles the hot loads quite easily

[Alan Fud]

Smith & Wesson auto's aren't cheap and I could buy any other quality gun for tha same amount of money (and maybe even have some change left over) yet I own more S&W Auto's than all of my other guns combined ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f106.jpg
... 'Nuff said. http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/vb/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Hamonrye]

Some one commented how the S&W and Ruger were average. I dissagree. I own 3 Rugers and 2 Smiths and would not trade them for anything. I have had Sigs, Colts and numerous others but the Smiths and Ruger will not leave my collection. They are reliable and dead accurate. I carry a P90 daily and would bet my life on it.

[Tamara]

Now we're in the "You made fun of my favorite gun!" portion of our program. Granted, I've only owned a 39, 59, 659, 645, 915, 5904, 5906, 4006, 1006, 3913, two 3913LS's, and possibly others I'm forgetting, so maybe I'm not experienced enough with Smith autos. I know I said horrible things about them like "they're reliable" and "they have decent accuracy and trigger pulls", so maybe you can forgive me for saying horrible things about them like "they bore me to tears."

Sincerely,
Tamara (who still wants a 945 and a 52)


PS:
Smith & Wesson auto's aren't cheap and I could buy any other quality gun for tha same amount of money (and maybe even have some change left over)

When you find a place that sells SIGs and good 1911's and P7's for the same price as S&W autos, maybe even with some change left over, let me know please. ;) What turns your crank my not turn mine, and vice versa. Vive la differance! :cool:

[Alan Fud]

Walked into Firearms Plus in Fort Lauderdale Florida to buy a 229 and saw a 4006TSW for the same price and walked out with the 4006TSW.

[Tamara]

Walked into Firearms Plus in Fort Lauderdale Florida to buy a 229 and saw a 4006TSW for the same price and walked out with the 4006TSW.

Nothing personal, but they're either deep-discounting their 229's or marking up their S&W's more. Check wholesale prices on both. ;)

I've sold all my S&W autos. Can I say "'Nuff said!", too, or is it that my tastes are just different from yours? ;)

[Alan Fud]

"Nuff said" was making reference to the photo showing the dozen S&W pistols which I own and indicating that I put my money where my mouth is and am not merely praising one company or putting down another company just to hear myself speak.

With regards to "deep-discounting" one brand and/or "marking up" another brand ... I wouldn't know about that (maybe they've been ripping me off all of these years as far as I know) but when comparing shelf price, S&W pistols were just as expensive as Beretta's and Sigs and more expensive than Rugers & Taurus.

That said regarding shelf price, I've have chosen S&W to protect me and my loved ones -- it's not the money (because that is a wash), it's the accuracy & reliability of the guns.

I have emails from people who have told me that they've traded in their Glocks & Sigs for S&W and weren't sorry. As you, yourself, said; people have gone the other way as well in trading in their S&W's for other brands.

With the exception of my 659, I have never had a S&W auto malfunction on me and at 50 feet, it is more accurate than I am (when you hit your forties, your eyes ain't what they use to be and gone are the days when I could hit the X-ring on a B-14 target at 25 yards).

[Tamara]

"Nuff said" was making reference to the photo showing the dozen S&W pistols which I own and indicating that I put my money where my mouth is and am not merely praising one company or putting down another company just to hear myself speak.

Well, personally, I was only doing it to put down a company just to hear myself speak. ;)

[SnWnMe]

There is a used 4586 in my local gun shop. I must say, if this gun's action is representative of Smith's DAO triggers, we don't need anymore crunchentickers. I could hardly believe that such a short and light trigger stroke was cocking and releasing the hammer. I would've bought this 45 if I were in the market to scratch that particular itch.

I saw somewhere that Smith's (nice) trigger set up necessitated the high bore axis design. I guess you can't get something for nothing.

[Tamara]

Smith's DAO's are, on average, nicer than anyone else's true DAO's except for Beretta's.

Ruger sometimes lets a really nice DAO out of the shop, too. I think with S&W and Ruger, it's because they have wheelgun experience; I couldn't tell you why Beretta's slickslides have such sweet DA triggers...

[Nightcrawler]

That 1006 is pretty sharp looking. I saw a 1076 once; trigger wasn't great, and I didn't like the location of the decock lever. But that 1006 is pretty durn sweet...

Bet they're real hard to find, right? Because I've been hankering for a 10mm and that big 5" barreled dealy looks like just the ticket.

[SnWnMe]

Here's a 1006

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976378188.htm

[9x19]

What turns your crank my not turn mine...

Tamara has a crank? :uhoh:

Another shattered illusion... :evil:

I find Ruger's P-Series to be preferable to the regular line of S&W pistols, and superior to the budget line of S&Ws.

I have no experience with S&W's "Tactical" line, other than handling at shops and shows, but they didn't impress me as being enough better to justify the asking price, when compared to their lower priced siblings.

[denfoote]

Go check out a Smegma...er...I mean...Sigma. Try to pull the trigger!! Then, you will understand!! ;)

[tex_n_cal]

My ex still owns a 5904 that I bought her some 15 years ago - it hasn't jammed in all that time, that I recall.

My brother has a on old 39, and a 745, and loves both.

On the downside, I have seen one late model 9mm Smith that jammed like crazy.

Their guns are too bulky, at least for me. I have drooled on a 952, but the silly thing has too bulky a grip - silly for a single stack target 9.

All that said, the modern 41, the 945 and 952 are made like fine watches. If the ergonomics work for you, I'd say they are safe bets. The 3913/14 is also a neat compact 9.

[farscott]

As someone who has standardized on the 1911 platform for autoloading pistols, the S&W 3rd Generation autoloaders feel and work like something alien. The S&W grip is definitely blockier although my small hands seem to handle it fairly well. The S&W is a lot wider than the 1911. The controls do not seem to fall to hand like my 1911's do, and the triggers are a whole new ball of wax to someone used to a 1911. The S&W autoloading pistols sure seem to have more parts than my 1911's, and detail stripping is a bit more complicated. As such, I was never comfortable with the S&W product line, even the single stack 3913NL.

On the other hand, I cannot remember anyone mentioning extractor failures or tuning in the S&W autos. And the S&W pistols seem to come from the factory with a lot of features that I found myself adding to my 1911's. Novak sights, decent but not aggressive front strap grip treatments, nicely dehorned edges, and smooth actions are all standard. Still the pistols never seemed to grab me the way other designs did. I think Tamara nailed it with her "boring" comment. The S&W 3rd Generation autoloaders really are the pistol equivalent of the Ford Taurus. Reliable, American made, but not very exciting.

I have never been a fan of S&W's autoloaders or the .40 S&W cartridge until I tried a 4006. This was a pistol I did not want in a chambering I did not want. My local dealer got the pistol when the Alaska DPS got new service weapons, and he suggested I would like it. I resisted, but the price was right, and the free range rental with ammo and money-back guarantee persuaded me to try. Much to my surprise, the combination fits me like a glove, and I can shoot it as well as one of my custom 1911's (which suggests I need more practice with my 1911's). The pistol is heavy and seems to soak up recoil.

Would I use the 4006 as a carry pistol? No. I have way too much muscle memory with the 1911, the thinner 1911 is easier to conceal, and I really struggle with the slide-mounted decocker. If I never got used to the 1911, my answer might be different. For a range gun, I really like the pistol.

[The Reverend]

I currently own (2) third generation S&W firearms both of which are .45acp.
My 4506-1 is a great weapon! I guess my experience is different from some as the trigger pull is excellent, and being the size I am I have no trouble hiding the large weapon. I would only rank the Sig P220 ahead of the 4506 in a realistic way. The weight and ergonomics are indeed something to get used to, but as with any firearm practice...practice..practice.

The second S&W is have is a 4516-2. A beautiful example of what a compact .45 should be. The only change I am contemplating is having the bobbed hammer replaced with a standard one. Other than that, the weight, balance, and shootability are excelent.

Good shooting!