Sig Sauer. Is it worth the $$


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Otis
July 1, 2008, 01:47 AM
Iím sure this question is in here somewhere but I have not been able to locate it. So I am sorry if this is a bit repetitive.

I have been tossing around the idea of getting into a Sig. I am leaning toward the P229 .40 cal. I like the looks and the feel of it and the reviews have been great. I have not had the opportunity to shoot one but it certainly reports as a great gun. My problem is I donít think I want to fork over the $800 to get one. I know that you can find them used for $500 - $600 but those are a bit hard to come by. So my question being; should I keep saving my pennys and pick up a Sig or just pick up an XD, Glock, etc... for half the price for the same reliability?

Thanks
Otis

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gtmerkley
July 1, 2008, 01:50 AM
Yes buy it its a Sig

Thernlund
July 1, 2008, 01:52 AM
Get the Sig. Buy it and and go forth, my son, comfortable in the knowledge that it was worth every penny! :)


-T.

smirnoff a
July 1, 2008, 02:18 AM
Sig is awesome. I have 229 stainless elite. It is 100 percent reliable and very accurate. Mine is a 40.

MJRW
July 1, 2008, 02:26 AM
At this point, a few hundred dollars is almost negligible. If it is within your reach, then don't base your decision on the cost difference. I've found that compromising on firearms simply leads me to be less happy with what I have purchased and I often spend money either trying to make the item perform like the one I wanted or I end up replacing it.

All that said, it is important that you base this decision on which one you actually like more. I think Sigs are great. But I think the Glock 19 is the most perfect weapon for me there is. If the Sig doesn't shoot better for you than the Glock or the Springfield, then it wouldn't make sense for you to get it even if it were cheaper.

In my opinion, you should make every reasonable effort to fire the weapon you intend to buy. Either through rental, friends, or politely asking at the range. I've found shooters to be friendly when you explain that you're looking to purchase one. It is almost like they're trying to get you to the join a club they belong to.

Unless you have a particular want of a .40, I'd recommend 9mm. It is softer recoiling and cheaper to shoot. The differences in energy and wound effectiveness are minimal. But a pleasant shooting experience that you can do more of because it is cheaper is very valuable. So, unless you've fired the .40 and loved it, do consider the 9mm.

antsi
July 1, 2008, 02:30 AM
If you really like the SIG, look into CPO (certified preowned).

However, if you like the XD or Glock just as well, get one of them.

I have SIGs and like them. I think if you find a gun that you really like, really fits your hand, that you shoot well - in short, a gun that really works for you - its worth paying for.

If you just want a SIG for variety in your collection you might want to consider picking up a German surplus P6 - they are a good value on the market right now.

If this is going to be your primary self defense gun, you can afford it, and it really works for you, I wouldn't worry about the price tag.

chabanais
July 1, 2008, 03:29 AM
I bought a P226 in .40 S&W and it is a nice firearm. Any of the ones you are considering will do the job but the Sig is the Mercedes-Benz of pistols I think.

nwilliams
July 1, 2008, 03:59 AM
You really can't go wrong with a Sig IMHO. Remember you don't have to buy a new one, used ones are usually just as good and won't cost as much. I got my P229 used for $500 and it included three mags, night sights and both the .40 and .357 Sig barrel.

I love my P229, its big and bulky but I love how it shoots and its my designated ccw...
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/Sig229-7.jpg

Lonestar49
July 1, 2008, 04:14 AM
...

And the satisfying reward of 100% dependable, reliable, and most accurate, out of the box, is worth the extra 200 and the wait.. (investment)

229RCT/9mm 229/40

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture281.jpg


Ls

Bill B.
July 1, 2008, 07:24 AM
And the satisfying reward of 100% dependable, reliable, and most accurate out of the box,

That statement says it all! I just have one but it's a keeper!

Disaster
July 1, 2008, 07:38 AM
Hope this thread doesn't dissolve into another rich vs. poor, Ford vs. Chevy affair.

I like Sigs. If a person has the money and also likes Sigs they should buy one. Sigs are workhorse handguns.

I don't own one, though. Why? Because I've got my money tied up in some other ventures right now and so I made a different choice...for now. I bought a couple guns for the price of a Sig and I don't feel that I compromised in any way. In fact, for my purposes, the guns I bought made better sense. The guns I bought are accurate and reliable and I can hit very precisely what I aim at.

Someday, when money isn't so tight and I'm feeling in the mood to expand my collection I will most likely add a Sig to it, but for now I'm perfectly happy with my choices.

The bottom line. There are a lot of good choices out there and Sig is one of them. You shouldn't feel compromised because you don't own a Sig, on the other hand you shouldn't feel embarrassed if you spent a little more to buy one than some other make. It really comes down to an individual decision.

nelson133
July 1, 2008, 07:44 AM
I own a number of pistols, but 4 of them are Sigs and their quality really stands out amongst the pack. They are durable, reliable and as accurate as anything I have shot. Where they really shine over most other pistols is ergonomics, they just feel right in your hand. I would highly recommend the brand.

GZOh
July 1, 2008, 07:54 AM
Real good gun!.. Would definitely get one, though I TOTALLY agree with antsi... get a Certified Previously Owned (CPO) SIG... they're basically 'new' and you're gonna save $250-300...
Call SCP Firearms (850-508-8336 and ask for Steve) tell 'em 'CZ Gene' sent you and you want the best condition CPO he's got!...
Have a P-229 (along with all my CZs) and it IS a great shoot!

leadcounsel
July 1, 2008, 08:38 AM
Better guns out there for less money. Look at Glock, XD, CZ...

I personally think that Sigs are only slightly more comfortable than H&Ks, which isn't saying much. I find both to be too unnecessarily thick.

I also think that's a lot of money for a DA/SA pistol with a long trigger reach.

But I'm biast and also think that the best handgun in the world is Glock and the most economical reliable handguns are made by CZ. Glocks are 2/3rds the price of Sig. If you want a DA/SA handgun, get a CZ for 1/2 the price of the Sig.

While I don't think that Glocks are the most comfortable in the world, they have the same trigger pull every time and all of mine have been 100% reliable for me and very accurate. And 2 out of my 4 Glocks were used.

So, my answer is NO, don't pay full price for a Sig. You may want to compromise by getting a used Sig for a few hundred dollars. If they are as 'great' a gun as everyone claims, they should be perfectly good used as new.

Frandy
July 1, 2008, 09:00 AM
I personally think that Sigs are only slightly more comfortable than H&Ks

Subjective, of course. In my hands, Sigs are far more comfortable than H&Ks. Yes, I've owned both.

I find both to be too unnecessarily thick.

Again, subjective. I change out the grips to Sig slim grips. More money, yes, but I have the option.

...that's a lot of money for a DA/SA pistol with a long trigger reach.

Yes, Sigs are a lot f money. And, spending more for a short trigger reduces the long reach. Yes, I know...more money spent, but I have the option.

I don't think that Glocks are the most comfortable in the world

We agree on that one.

So, my answer is NO, don't pay full price for a Sig.

I agree. I never have and I never will.

You may want to compromise by getting a used Sig for a few hundred dollars. If they are as 'great' a gun as everyone claims, they should be perfectly good used as new

To me, a used Sig is no compromise. All 4 of the used Sigs I have owned have been flawless over thousands of rounds.

enfield
July 1, 2008, 09:03 AM
Buy the Sig

bryanZ06
July 1, 2008, 10:00 AM
I have 3. A 220 ST, a Grade I P6, and a P226 X5. Get the SIG, you won't be disapointed.

wnycollector
July 1, 2008, 10:01 AM
I LOVE SIGs! I own three vintage west german's (P6, P220 and P226). That being said, if I wanted a .40 I would go to CDNN and buy the CZ 40B for $289. I bought one a few months ago and cant belive the quality, reliability and accuracy for LESS THAN $300! After 600 rounds the CZ will outshoot ALL of my SIGs.

FranklyTodd
July 1, 2008, 11:33 AM
Rather than an opinion, here's my experience.

I got rid of my Glock 26 and bought a NIB Sig P239 9mm w/3mags and Sig/Serpa holster for $750.

On paper, it's too big, too heavy, with too little capacity.

This is the best shooting pistol I've ever shot, bar none, including HK, Glock, etc., etc. I confess I have NOT yet shot any model CZ, but have heard good things.

The extra weight and ergonimics of the Sig makes 9mm (even +P) feel like a 22lr. I never have liked .40 (after trying it in Glock and HK), but I'll wager that I would like shooting it in this gun. I could even imagine a .357sig, it shoots so sweet.

Now the bad part - a big reason for paying the Sig premium is "To Hell and Back" reliability, right? Well, out of the box it fed FMJ flawlessly, and JHPs not well at all. I bought it June 19, shipped it back to Sig June 25, and haven't yet heard anything. So far customer service has been terrific (they paid for overnight shipping without complaint), but I have to reserve my final Sig judgment until it comes back and runs flawlessly.

I would say if you are going to continuously buy/sell/trade, stick with Glock-esque guns. If you are a buy and hold guy, get the Sig, over years and years the tiny bit of extra cash will be meaningless... Plus, take it from me, if you settle for less than you really want, you will still want the Sig!!! So you'll end up with a Glock you never shoot, and a Sig, too! :)

BTW, if you go used, check this out: https://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/SSP.aspx This is a good deal, IMHO, and if I ever buy a used Sig, I'll take advantage of this for sure!

rellascout
July 1, 2008, 11:41 AM
I am a huge Sig fan. I have owned or still own tons.

P220,P226 Navy, P226 Tactical CGI, P239, P229, P228, GSR etc... you get the picture.

These days I would say they are not worth the extra you pay. They simply are not up to the old standard but the prices still keep going up. They are not your fathers Sig Sauer.

Now if I were in the market for a P229 in 40 S&W I would buy this one.

Sig Sauer 229R Reverse Two Tone 40s&w Night Sights $639 delivered.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/229wood2.jpg

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_28_778/products_id/411535169

kcshooter
July 1, 2008, 11:48 AM
Try to find a range/gunshop that will let you shoot a Sig next to a Glock. You will be able to see very quickly why they are more expensive.
Buy the Sig. I've got a 229 and a 250. And yes, I have owned a Glock 19. One of the few guns I don't regret selling.

rellascout
July 1, 2008, 11:56 AM
If you are paying $800+ for a standard Sig P229 you are getting raped by your dealer IMHO.

There are soooo many good deals on Sigs everywhere. No one pays MAP.

There are used Sigs everywhere for $450 to $550.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/915997461/Guns/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/P229_40S_W_used_3_mag.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976815352/Guns-For-Sale/Gun-Auctions/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/P229_40_S_W.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/988386814/Guns-For-Sale/Gun-Auctions/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/Sig_Sauer_P229.htm

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8684039

MadMercS55
July 1, 2008, 11:59 AM
The P229 should be a safe bet. I think it is probably one of the best .40/357 pistols on the market. That being said, I agree with Rellascout, alot of what Sig is doing today is sub-par to their original German product line and at a much higher cost. My experiences with what they did to the classic P220 is a prime example. I had 2 Carry models and an ST that couldn't work right even after several trips back for repairs. I have several original P220's and problems like that would have been rare at best. If there is a Sportman's Warehouse near you, check the P229 out there. My local one had the P229 with rail and night sights for $729+tx. Not a bad price I thought, not sure if their pricing is the same everywhere though.

Storm
July 1, 2008, 12:45 PM
By all means, a Sig.

Your money will be well spent towards top notch reliability, accuracy, ergonomics, design, engineering, execution and styling. Sigs consistently have some of the finest DA/SA triggers among production semi-autos. You really can't go wrong.

MarcusWendt
July 1, 2008, 12:56 PM
While I agree that the price of Sig Sauer Handguns is getting out of control, I still pay to have the best. I'm currently looking to get my daughter her first gun to compete with in USPSA and it will be a Sig Sauer.

I've owned and still own many Sigs. I also have shot or own Glocks, S&W, XDs, Walthers,and Rugers. As much as I want a less expensive gun to replace my love of Sigs, it just isn't happening. I shot my P226ST yesterday and it is just a dream to shoot, accurate as hell, and NEVER malfunctions.

I agree you need to get better price. Buds, or get a CPO Sig, you won't be sorry. If you don't you will always wonder.

Coronach
July 1, 2008, 01:27 PM
It always comes down to just one thing:

Do you shoot it well?

If yes, you should buy it. If not, you should buy something else.

Thousands of threads asking "which gun?" and very few of them with any indication of which one the OP shoots better in the first post. There is probably a reason for this: if the OP knows which gun he shoots better, there's almost no reason to ask the ubiquitous "which gun?" question. The answer is obvious. Rarely, we get a question of "which gun? I shoot both equally well." Then we can talk about the other merits of the gun.

Sure, we could give all of the recommendations in the world, but we're not you. If the consensus is that Sig is a great gun, you spend several hundred dollars and get one, and decide that you don't like the way it shoots, what have you learned?

MORAL: Go shoot one. A lot. Rent a gun and buy several boxes of ammo. Do it several times. Then you will KNOW if Sig is worth the extra $$$.

Mike

IndianaBoy
July 1, 2008, 01:57 PM
My constant companion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/gnieman/EDC/EDC010_reduced.jpg

gtmtnbiker98
July 1, 2008, 03:33 PM
I agree with many, Sig of recent isn't the Sig of the mid to late 90s. Once they stopped making the stamped steel slides and went to all stainless, the quality and reliability has dropped. Stainless aside, their QC has bottomed out, it is hard to get a new in box Sig without a blemish here or there. Four of the last five Sigs I've purchased has not been blemish free but I didn't sweat over it, they are not safe queens - they are shooters. But on the same token, when spending in upwards of $900.00 for a pistol, one should expect to receive a blemish free, perfect looking pistol. That simply isn't the case anymore.

Things got so bad with the P220s that they switched from the internal extractor to an external due to reliability issues. That should tell you something, how many P220s were produced in the mean time that were defective and are still defective?

Water-Man
July 1, 2008, 03:38 PM
Don't waste your money. Buy XD or Glock.

Old Dog
July 1, 2008, 04:17 PM
Wow, two pages and quite a few posts before the obligatory "Buy a Glock" remark popped up (at least this guy included the XD, though).

Apples to oranges anyway. For many of us, there's a big difference between a polymer-framed, striker-fired pistol and a steel or alloy framed hammer-fired pistol.

From my experience (over thirty years of carrying/shooting weapons professionally and as a private citizen/hunter), I will never compromise on quality again. Buy the best firearms you can afford. Personally, I'll go a month eating only rice and beans to scrape up that extra couple hundred bucks to get a better quality firearm, especially if it's to be used for self-defense or I want it to last a lifetime.

SIG-Sauer pistols are worth the money, IMO. But if it's your money, it's your choice. And to echo others, the CPOs are probably one of the best deals going on firearms, period.

rellascout
July 1, 2008, 04:29 PM
SIG-Sauer pistols are worth the money, IMO. But if it's your money, it's your choice. And to echo others, the CPOs are probably one of the best deals going on firearms, period.

Have you bought one in the last 6 month?

Thernlund
July 1, 2008, 05:14 PM
Don't waste your money. Buy XD or Glock.

BLASPHEMERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

Have you bought one in the last 6 month?

Yes. So?


-T.

thegoodfight
July 1, 2008, 05:26 PM
get a glock

phantomak47
July 1, 2008, 05:40 PM
Sig is worth the price, but I really started liking my XD-45, maybe even more than my P226...........

rellascout
July 1, 2008, 05:43 PM
Yes. So?

More and more CPOs are simply problem guns or parts guns from stuff left over. In the last 6 months I have seen more reports of CPOs going back to Sig for repair since the finishes were flaking off.

If you know the insides and outsides of the new CPO program it becomes clear that these are no longer take back guns but instead are problem guns being put back out into the market place. There was a time when all CPOs were trade in guns but this is no longer the case.

Look at the CPO P228s. They are mix masters. I had P220 SAS DAK. These were never sold as duty weapons. It went back for extractor problems.

I would take a verified used gun from a good source or fellow member over a CPO these days.

Thernlund
July 1, 2008, 05:46 PM
More and more CPOs are simply problem guns or parts guns from stuff left over.Mm. Hadn't heard that.


-T.

Golddog
July 1, 2008, 05:50 PM
CZ's have better triggers and better ergonomics for hundreds of dollars less.

I just don't get the Sig attraction.

MadMercS55
July 1, 2008, 06:03 PM
I've run across the parts bin CPO's at a couple local shops. One indication is the slide having an oval indentation on it, sometimes near the Sig Sauer logo or on the ejection port side. They removed the serial # or other such markings and mated the slide of say a 94 P226 to the frame of a current gen pistol to make a usable pistol. The price was right but I checked a few sources including a call to SIG and all confirmed the weapons were indeed a mix and match of different generation parts. I wouldn't buy one of them, but I've heard that the mixed P226 and P228's do work nicely. On a different note, if you like polymer and SIG, go for the SP2022, best of both worlds and mine is awesome.

CWL
July 1, 2008, 06:05 PM
I have a SIG P229 in .40SW

Paid $350 for it.

Well made and absolutely accurate.

Grip is too big for my hands. Trigger pull is too long for me. Don't like to shoot DA.

Bore axis is too high for what I am accustomed to (compared to M1911s and P7M8).

I dropped a .357SIG barrel into mine and now I don't shoot .40SW anymore.

Now tell me what my experiences with my P229 has to do with you?

Coronach is right. Only buy it if it feels and shoots well for you...AND if you can afford it.

BlindJustice
July 1, 2008, 06:20 PM
Sig Sauer has a great web site - I had noticed the C.P.O.Sig Pistols
icon on the Pistols main page but hadn't gone to the trouble of reading
what this Certification means.

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=55&productid=201

SOunds like the factory takes care in keeping up their high standard
for thier product with the LEO trade-ins.

ALso FWIW - SIg has added their version of the 1911 recently - and reading about everytthing they put into thier 1911s, no investment cast
internal parts etc. for the price they compare very well to S&W
and others in that middle range of 1911s.

I am pretty much sold on a P239 in 9MMx19 for a CCW option
for the next handgun purchase.

R-

Omaha-BeenGlockin
July 1, 2008, 06:45 PM
Get the Glock.

Simply a better gun for less money. More durable and reliable.

I've owned 3 Sigs and that all came up lacking in one way or another--the last one I had was problem free---just too heavy. And yes the quality has gone down since they stopped making stamped slides.

RobNDenver
July 1, 2008, 06:46 PM
Otis,

Buy the P229. You will find that it is soon your all time favorite. It is so accurate, and its recoil so manageable that you will really appreciate this pistol. I put CT Laser sights on it, and my wife and I both think it is the best gun in our collection. . .

I bought mine for about $600 from a dealer near me- 5280 Armory in Arvada. Came with a blue case, extra magazine and of course a trigger lock. . .

BlindJustice
July 1, 2008, 06:51 PM
Noow after going back and reading page 2, after commenting
after page 2 about some CPOs being mis-matched I'll
go with NEW, and not a roll of the dice.

but No. 1 I need to get up to SPokane and go to Sharpshooters Target
range, they advertise they have over 70 handguns for rentals.
They gotta at least have a Sig or two.

Question about Sig Triggers, would the Sig 220, 226/229 & 239
be similiar in DA/SA travel/pull?

Randall

FranklyTodd
July 1, 2008, 07:18 PM
I am pretty much sold on a P239 in 9MMx19 for a CCW option
for the next handgun purchase.


+1 Can't wait to get mine back from Sig, and hopefully it will feed hollowpoints! It is a great shooter. Can't say how it carries yet, had to send it back while my purchased holster was in transit... :(

kcshooter
July 1, 2008, 07:25 PM
Get the Glock.

Simply a better gun for less money.I don't know anyone who has actually owned both guns that would share this opinion.

Was this sarcasm?

yhtomit
July 1, 2008, 08:04 PM
But I'll echo at least one of the posts above, in that there are guns that are to my mind just as good which cost quite a bit less. I've heard (and now it's in my head, must admit to repeating) that a Cz is "a poor man's Sig." And frankly (setting aside resale or collector value, thinking only of what I'd rather have on hand to fire), if you offered me a brand new Cz-75 or a current-model similar-sized Sig, I suspect I'd take the Cz -- esp. if it's in Stainless :)

The times (just a few) when I've fired a Sig, it's not that I didn't enjoy it (I did!) and it's not that it wasn't reliable (no problems), it's just that the sigs I've fired (I think all model 226) have felt slightly bland and lifeless in the hand -- which is to say, my hand. Hand geometries and preferences vary, of course.

And so far, I've been luckier than evidently some have -- which is to say, lucky enough not to have as much time or money for ammo as I'd like! -- and had no problems with my Ruger P345, the feel of which beats the Sigs I have actually fired, to me.

I've been tempted by the bargain Sigs at Gander Mountain, and I suspect that I could learn to love them more than I do now, but the ergonomics of my Cz have led me to growing certainty that a Tanfoglio / EAA Witness is in my near future -- I could get that *and* a Ruger LCP (for instance) for about what I'd pay for certain models of Sig.

YMMV, but that's my thinking :)

timothy

thatguy123
July 1, 2008, 08:06 PM
I don't know anyone who has actually owned both guns that would share this opinion.

Was this sarcasm? I own both, and perfer the Sig by a large margin. Although I do sip Glock Kool-Aid, I think no one builds a more reliable gun, but my Sig has given me no reason to doubt it's reliability either.

BlindJustice
July 1, 2008, 08:50 PM
For the record, I've yet to shoot a Sig, I do have the following
so I have something to compare a SIg against,
S&W 1911 full size .45 ACP
CZ 75B - 9MM Luger
I got the 75B for the follwing features.
* DA/SA with the thumb safety like a 1911
that gives a Cond. ONe carry option.
* All steel for soaking up recoil
* rep. for reliability & accuracy has proven true
* and it's slide rails inside the frame which is like
the famed for it's accuracy the Sig P210 I also
like because it makes the slide smaller as a side feature.
But they're both a bit heavy for an all day CCW so the
single stack SIg P239 8 shot with an optional 10 shot mag
with the plastic extension around the mag that extends the
grip is appealing.

ANd yes I have shot my shooting Buddy's Glock G19 - once
when it was the first day at the range and also last saturday after
he changed the spring and followed some online video to drop the
trigger pull, but even he admits it's mushy. He liked my CZ for
the weight with slow aimed fire as well as the sights are way better.
I don't like the grip angle, and the mag release sucked I had to look
down to figure out it isn't a round button, wth? but the show stopper
was the PLASTIC magazines A Big Dog chew toys don't belong in guns.
\
Randall

ZeSpectre
July 1, 2008, 09:01 PM
I think the current price for a new SIG P229 is getting out of hand but if you can find one for $650 or less then by all means give it a try.
I had an XD-40 that I liked a lot...until I got my SIG and then the XD just started gathering dust until I sold it to a friend.

Still it's really what gun works for YOU. Either would certainly do the job.

basicblur
July 1, 2008, 09:17 PM
Iíve got a P229R (357 SIG/$650 NIB), XD40SC, and USPC 40.
Can tell little/no difference in any of Ďem AFA accuracy, function, etc, though I think the USPC40 is the softest shooter of the bunch. I also like the civilian carry options of the USPC in Variant 1 (round in chamber, decocked, safety on).

Unless you have some compelling reason to buy the SIG over the XD (fits your hand, like a decocker, etc) I see no reason to pay extra for the SIG over the XD.
ĎCourse, Iím a pragmatist!

MarcusWendt
July 2, 2008, 02:13 PM
Have you bought one in the last 6 month?

I have and I have NO problem with it.

FranklyTodd
July 2, 2008, 03:37 PM
I also like the civilian carry options of the USPC in Variant 1 (round in chamber, decocked, safety on).

In my opinion, this quote hightlights the first thing a buyer of a CCW piece should do, figure out what operation he/she wants. DAO (incl. DAK or LEM), DA/SA (or C&L, or both), or striker-fired trigger (XD, Glock). Each of the different options can be carried safely - I would not judge anyone's decision. But, before picking a brand, it helps immensely to pick the action one prefers, as it really can narrow the field!!!

All of the pistols mentioned are good quality, and if well maintained should be completely reliable. Glock has a reputation that even if you maintain it poorly, or pour sand through it, it will still be reliable. Impressive, but I don't do that, so it's not compelling for me.

The USPc point above is a good valid point, and a good way to carry. Others prefer a long initial DA pull to provide an extra margin of safety. That's what I've decided for myself (Sig DA/SA). Others are completely comfortable using a striker fired pistol with no other safties (not counting internal safties). Some like a 1911 SAO w/safety. I sometimes carry a Kahr P9, which is striker fired with no safety, but with a looonnnggg pull. Not saying it's better - it's 100% personal preference. Whether Glock or Sig is "better" just isn't framing the question properly. Comparing Sig & CZ, valid, comparing Glock & XD, valid. Comparing Sig & Glock just doesn't make sense to me, unless you really narrow the comparison - like which is more [fill in blank here - accurate, reliable, etc.]. Which one is "better" overall includes too many subjective variables for us internet kibitzers to answer intelligently except as to our own preference. For ME Sig is better than Glock and worth the extra money, but I would never suggest that as being true for everyone.

rellascout
July 2, 2008, 04:21 PM
Comparing Sig & Glock just doesn't make sense to me, unless you really narrow the comparison - like which is more [fill in blank here - accurate, reliable, etc.]. Which one is "better" overall includes too many subjective variables for us internet kibitzers to answer intelligently except as to our own preference. For ME Sig is better than Glock and worth the extra money, but I would never suggest that as being true for everyone.

I disagree with you on this one.

The comparison between a Glock and a Sig is 100% do able.

Glock is lighter, Glock is cheaper, Glock is polymer, Glock has a lower bore axis, Glock has fewer moving parts, Glock's reliability is second to none. Glock has a better finish. Unsupported chamber in some calibers. Glock is DOA striker fire only etc...

Sig is stainless steel slide with a alloy metal frame. Sig is heavier. Sig has a higher bore axis. Supported chamber, Nitron finish is just okay, Sig blue finish is lousy. Sig has traditional rifling in it bore. Sigs come in DOA, DA/SA, SAO

These are facts. They are all valid points of comparison. They are facts. They are not subjective. Your feelings about one or the other or the reality that one works better for you is subjective but a comparison is not subjective at all.

FranklyTodd
July 2, 2008, 04:29 PM
I disagree with you on this one.

The comparison between a Glock and a Sig is 100% do able.

Well, assuming I tell you that I prefer a DA/SA action, or to carry C&L w/safety, or the option of either a la USPc, which Glock do you recommend?

You kind of pulled my words out of context - my point was that picking the operation of the gun is paramount, and should be done before any brand comparison makes sense.

I explicitly said that on individual elements, comparisons could be made, but if one doesn't want a striker-fired, no-safety gun, the Glocks are not a good choice. Would you agree with that? Their weight, reliability, finish, etc. are all irrelevant at that point.

crebralfix
July 2, 2008, 04:35 PM
I have both. I carry both. Both Glock and SIG function well for the purposes of defense and gun games.

However...SIG has yet to come out with a very compact 9mm pistol. SIG's P220 is excellent, but large (not as large as Glock's Model 20/21, which is shorter than the XD 45). For a 45, I prefer the P220, but for 9mm CCW...a Glock 26 and 19 combo is really difficult to beat. Even the XD is a bit bulky...though S&W M&Ps are putting some heat on Glock.

GZOh
July 2, 2008, 04:36 PM
'Is the SIG worth it?'... Don't know, depends on YOU! Have a bunch of CZs and several months ago bought a Sig P-229 (9mm)... Excellent gun, excellent shoot (nice recoil and VERY accurate), fits my hand perfect, like the looks, built like a Tank, and I really, really like it!! I think coronach made one of the key replies when he asked... 'Do you shoot it well'... 'Do you like the way the Gun shoots?' It kinda has to start right there...forget all the marketing hype, the fan clubs, the gun's history, etc... Does it fit right in YOUR hand and do you like the way it shoots?'... Then, again as C said, RENT THE GUN AND SHOOT IT!!! You gotta be 'nuts' to spend $800 on 'hype and BS'... SHOOT IT (put in 100-200rnds), then you'll know if you 'love it' enough to spend that money!! If you like the shoot (and wanna drop the $700-800), SIG's a great company, that makes a super-quality product and totally stands by it...
as ZeS said "If you can get a NIB Sig for $650, get it"! If you can get that NIB price, it makes it sweeter!
After reading this yesterday, went out to the range with my SIG-229 and my CZ P-01... 150 rnds later, nothing has changed for ME!... I would take that CZ over the SIG anytime... Fits better, shoots better, feels better, and I'm about $250 'richer'... but again, that's ME!

rellascout
July 2, 2008, 04:39 PM
Sure I personally own no striker firing pistols.

I did not take your statement out of context at all. In fact I think what I am saying is that without these valid points of objective comparison how would a new shooter know that they like a Glock action over a DA/SA.

Your original statements assumes too much knowledge.

I personally can shoot anything you give me. I don't prefer Glocks but I can shoot almost as well with a Glock 19 as I can with my P228. I personal preference is BHP and 1911 but that does not mean I can't get business done with the S&W 642 in my pocket. My point is that you don't have to pick just one action. You don't restrict yourself to one so why are you advising others to?

rellascout
July 2, 2008, 04:44 PM
'Is the SIG worth it?'... Don't know, depends on YOU! Have a bunch of CZs and several months ago bought a Sig P-229 (9mm)... Excellent gun, excellent shoot (nice recoil and VERY accurate), fits my hand perfect, like the looks, built like a Tank, and I really, really like it!! I think coronach made one of the key replies when he asked... 'Do you shoot it well'... 'Do you like the way the Gun shoots?' It kinda has to start right there...forget all the marketing hype, the fan clubs, the gun's history, etc... Does it fit right in YOUR hand and do you like the way it shoots?'... Then, again as C said, RENT THE GUN AND SHOOT IT!!! You gotta be 'nuts' to spend $800 on 'hype and BS'... SHOOT IT (put in 100-200rnds), then you'll know if you 'love it' enough to spend that money!! If you like the shoot (and wanna drop the $700-800), SIG's a great company, that makes a super-quality product and totally stands by it...
as ZeS said "If you can get a NIB Sig for $650, get it"! If you can get that NIB price, it makes it sweeter!
After reading this yesterday, went out to the range with my SIG-229 and my CZ P-01... 150 rnds later, nothing has changed for ME!... I would take that CZ over the SIG anytime... Fits better, shoots better, feels better, and I'm about $250 'richer'... but again, that's ME!

Just hope you never have to sell that P01 because it is a dog used. You would be lucky to get $400 for it.

I also do not think renting is always all it is cracked up to be. It is often expensive unless you are on good terms with the range. They are not always the best maintained guns. I have never shot a range gun that was in as good condition as any of my personal pistols. Plus often times it takes more than one session to know if a gun is right for you. I owned a 75B which had a dream trigger and seemed to fit me. Shot it several times with decent performance but one day after about 100 rounds I noticed I was always changing my grip to shoot it properly. The sweet trigger was compensating for this non-standard hold so the groups were okay but I realized this thing just does not fit me. I sold it here on THR and the owner ribs me all the time that I cannot have it back. I did not come to this conclusion until after about 300+ rounds and 6 months of ownership.

To me the issue with the OP questions is that Sigs are not worth $800. Now it might be worth $650 but that is up to you. I have never paid more than $600 for a stock Sig. Everyone I have ever owned and then sold I did not loose a penny on. Every single time I get what I paid because I shop smart and buy cheap and sell cheap. A well taken care of Sig will hold its value better than most gun except maybe for Colt.

Yeah I know never sell your guns but that is BS. Sometimes you have to or just want to. They are only hunks of metal, and sometimes plastic, after all.

FranklyTodd
July 2, 2008, 04:46 PM
[F]or 9mm CCW...a Glock 26 and 19 combo is really difficult to beat.

Assuming you like Glock, I don't dispute that a bit! I've had 2 Glocks - most recently a 26 - and just couldn't like them, despite my best efforts. :o Honestly I bought them because the LEO discount was so strong. I got both Glocks for $398 each.

I dumped the Glock 26 for a Sig P239 and as for both shooting it and carrying it, I like the 239 MUCH better, mostly because I personally prefer the DA/SA action.

Of course the 239 wouldn't feed hollowpoints, and so 6 days after buying it NEW for $750, it's back at the factory. Go Sig!! :banghead:

I shop smart and buy cheap and sell cheap

I'm making fun of myself about the $750 I paid - please don't pile on about that - if the thing runs like a Sig should when it gets back, I don't really care about the money.

My point is that you don't have to pick just one action. You don't restrict yourself to one so why are you advising others to?

You are right - excellent point. I think I'm projecting too much of my own bias. I have shot for 25+ years, but only carried for 1. I went through a lot of angst deciding what was best for me for CCW. I found over time that I personally despise the Glock safe-action system, for me - trigger pull too light, and too short. I strongly prefer the DAO j-frame and the DA/SA Sig. I make allowances for an LCP because there is nothing like it size-wise, and the trigger is still longer and firmer than a Glock. I have a Kahr that was received in trade for the Glock, so I shouldn't count that, as I'll probably sell it. Having said that, the trigger is much closer to having a DAO feel than Glock, IMO.

Having a billion guns for the range is cool, I just think, and this is where I probably took the thread way off track, when deciding what to carry, the action one is comfortable using is a big consideration, and should be decided WAY before brand. I loved many things about Glock, but not a couple deal-breaking things, so the gun was useless to me for carrying.

rellascout
July 2, 2008, 05:06 PM
Man I cannot believe that your P239 did not feed hollow points. I have never heard that one. They will polish the feed ramp. Check it our carefully because sometimes they take too much off IMO. If they do demand a new barrel.

I am not knocking what you paid. I count myself lucky. These days I am not shopping for carry guns or defense guns so I can shop smart and be patient. Nothing I have to have this minute.

These days Buds gun shop is a great place to get deals on Sigs. They have become a clearing house for Sig overstocks and closeouts. Lots of NIB Sigs for under $600.

If you are looking for a 9mm the Sig Pro Sp2022s that are selling for $459 are a steal with 3 mags, all German manufacturing with proof marks and Ifalon finish which is much better than Nitron. The triggers on these are incredible. No camming in DA and a slick SA.

http://lib.irismedia.org/sait/guns/handguns/sig_Sp2022.jpg

FranklyTodd
July 2, 2008, 05:11 PM
Check it our carefully because sometimes they take too much off IMO. If they do demand a new barrel.

Not to continue to take this thread off track, as I already have, but how on earth will I know if they took too much off?

My plan was to run 500rds (at least 200 of it my SD hollowpoints) through, and if it runs perfect, I'll be happy. If it jams, I will take it back to the store and they will give me my money back. They don't know that yet, of course, but I think the consumer protection statutes are on my side. ;)

Being a lawyer sucks 98% of the time, but every once in a while it pays off...

These days Buds gun shop is a great place to get deals on Sigs.

If mine gets fixed, I'm not in the market for another. If it still doesn't feed, I probably won't get another Sig... Buds had my gun for 705 with 2 mags IIRC. I got 3 mags and the Sig branded Serpa holster. It was by no measure a steal, but I didn't get raped. It was $849 retail, with LEO discount $756.

1BLINDREF
July 2, 2008, 05:31 PM
Back to the OP - Sig Sauer. Is it worth the $$

If you shoot it well, and it fits your needs and you can afford to buy one - then yes.

It all comes down to individual preference and how a particular gun shoots for a particular person.

There are many guns out there that will go bang when you pull the trigger (and some that go KABOOM - Glock :neener: :neener: sorry - I couldn't resist).

Try a bunch of them and buy the one that you like and can shoot the best.

GZOh
July 2, 2008, 05:40 PM
rella... you make a couple of real good points, but I kinda disagree with you alittle. The 'used' gun market is always difficult and very few guns EXCEPT the SIG (maybe H&K) maintain their value. There's a tremendous SIG following (and rightfully so) that always supports prices (even with the Sig-CPO guns) and that's good. YOU may find this hard to believe, but alot of 'gunners' buy quality guns they like, and DO really KEEP 'EM!... I still have a 6" .357 S&W from 1980, a Ruger Mark II from '85, etc... I've been fortunate to never have-to sell any guns.. So I try to buy QUALITY, enjoy 'em and Keep 'Em Forever! Never had to sell a CZ, but I NEVER saw a used P-01 for UNDER $400... love to have seen one!
Regarding SHOOTING A GUN FIRST... Agreed, rental guns are usually NOT in the BEST condition but they can give you a good 'feel' and a pretty good indication of what to expect. You would have to be a semi-moron to spend $800 on a gun based on what the 'cheerleaders' are telling you! SHOOT IT, then become a cheerleader!!
Regarding the Sig-2022, totally agree with you... one helluva deal for $460... and a great way to get inot a Sig!!

rellascout
July 2, 2008, 05:52 PM
I tried to sell a P01 here for $475 with a High noon holster and no takers. Finally sold the holster and kept the gun. Never got an offer over $400 for the gun itself.

Wife wanted to keep it anyway.

You forgot Colt on the list of high resale value. Better than Sig or HK. I keep most of my guns. Others are simpy a dime a dozen. If you sell a Sig P239 you can buy the same gun 1 year later at the same or lower price. Things like the P228 or P225 are different because they are not made or imported anymore. Those are keepers. Others go in and out of the rotation.

I think the real issue with Sig these days is that they have gone for volume over craftsmanship these days. They have grown from abut 80 employees to over 300 in the past 2 years and it shows in the products. They need to get back to old school German QC or they will loose their reputation.

Don't get me wrong I am a Sig fan. It kills me that the new product is not the same as the old. I wish it was just in my mind but I got hit will a bad CPO P220 SAS recently which Sig fixed and I sold.

I had never had problem with a Sig before that and in the end it was not the issue as much as the company I took issues with. From the top down to the CSRs Sig thinks their **** does not stink.

GZOh
July 2, 2008, 06:23 PM
rella... think about it, aren't you now a much happier person now that you didn't (couldn't) sell that P-01!... What do they call it 'karma' or 'fate', or something like that!
.

Chem Geek
July 2, 2008, 11:09 PM
If you like them they're worth the extra money. It's my opinion that for a DA/SA style pistol, Sig's are one of the best. CZs are cheaper, but I haven't personally felt a CZ trigger that comes close to my P226's trigger, and I've shot quite a few now. So my personal bias would be that while CZs are perfectly nice guns, they are not on par with a Sig. I haven't shot enough HKs to pass a judgement, although I liked the one that I shot.

Glocks are less expensive, but great weapons. If you like the trigger on a Glock, I'd say get a Glock. The only reason I hesitate on getting a Glock is that the trigger is so different from the DA/SA Sig trigger. While I'm sure I can get used to it, I still prefer the DA/SA Sig trigger. As a result Sig's are worth the extra money for me.

I also think that the Sig QC issue is totally over blown. While I think it has lowered as of late, I think all the internet banter about it makes it seem like Sig is putting HiPoints in the blue boxes now. While the occurrence of marred or problem Sigs has increased, I think the vast majority are still very fine weapons. But that viewpoint may be colored by my feelings that the internet mostly brings out the complainers and makes pretty much any little problem seem overblown. Just ask about the Walther P22 on this board, and you'll see what I mean. :)

Oh yea, big +1 on the German SP2022. I checked one out that SCP Firearms had, and they're SWEET. Oh, if I only had the extra flow....

SubSolar
July 3, 2008, 01:58 AM
Sigs and Glocks are my favorites. For .40 S&W I prefer Sigs, have two, a 226 and 226ST on the way. Glocks are best in .45, in my opinion. G21SF is probably the ultimate self defense handgun. Glocks have a better finish, cheaper, less parts, hold more rounds and are more reliable when neglected (dirty, no oil, etc). Sigs are more accurate (for most people), thinner grip, have more trigger system options.

abrink
July 3, 2008, 02:05 AM
Go for the sig. You won't be disappointed. You might as well get a used one because there's not much you can do to those guns that will make them jam once every thousand rounds! Besides the don't feel like a f*ing block of wood in your hand (glocks!)

They are accurate but it takes time to learn how to shoot them. I notice this more with sigs than any others. However like i said before if you do learn how to shoot them well, they won't disappoint you!

Sharp669
July 3, 2008, 03:30 PM
I'm thinking about getting a Sig as well. A p220. I saw one that is a bit older from either germany or west germany without light rails for about 440$. They also had a certified pre owned with rails (stainless) for 640$. Given some of the concern raised about the CPOs from sig, I am more inclined to go with the older used 220. What do you all think? Are those good prices?

Lonestar49
July 3, 2008, 03:40 PM
I'm thinking about getting a Sig as well. A p220. I saw one that is a bit older from either germany or west germany without light rails for about 440$. They also had a certified pre owned with rails (stainless) for 640$. Given some of the concern raised about the CPOs from sig, I am more inclined to go with the older used 220. What do you all think? Are those good prices?


...

I think ya should go with the older P220n/r one, definitely will hold more resale value up the years IMO.

Price seems good.. But ya might want to wait until the SIG (CPO a/o 220R) Blaster, errr.. Master, chimes in with his thoughts.. ;)


Ls

robctwo
July 3, 2008, 03:45 PM
I am a former Sig owner. I had the 226 Sport Stock and the 220 Sport Stock. The 226 is German built and considered by many on the Sig Forum to be the best Sig built other than the 210. I had zero malfunctions with tens of thousands of rounds through the 226, and thousands through the 220.

I also have a CZ75BD and a BHP. Both fit my hand better, neither has even close to the trigger on the 226.

Once I started shooting 1911s I realized that the Sig grips were a bit big for my hands. I sold both to finance a Les Baer 9mm PII. Did I make the right choice? For me yes, for many, no. If my hands were just a bit bigger I would still be a Sig owner.

jws527
July 3, 2008, 05:24 PM
You're going to get a lot of subjective feedback when you ask a question like this. Just keep that in mind.

The first handgun that I owned was (and still is - I still have it) a Sig. A two-tone P229 with a .40 barrel. It was a CPO model that I bought at a gun show for $550 - came with two mags, the CPO (red) box, all of the manuals and documentation and whatnot, and brand new night sights that. Mind you, I didn't know much about the Sig line at the time - I was going on my uncle's feedback and brand recommendations (Glock, S&W, Sig - Sig being his favorite) and simply chose the one that felt most comfortable in my hand. I also wanted a larger caliber, and the .40 fit the bill. Also, this was well before I was into collecting, so I figured there was a good chance the gun I purchased would be my only gun, and I wasn't concerned about spending a little extra cash to get a "good" one.

My buddy was with me, and he also purchased his first handgun (HK USP compact in .40).

I'd been shooting before - mostly rifles, some handgun - but I'd never shot a Sig. In that sense, I took a risk...and got very lucky. To begin with, the gun that I purchased was a very early production model with a German made frame. So early, in fact, that the barrel even has a matching serial (rare for the P229, from what I hear). Despite this, it was in meticulous shape. Most importantly, however, I went shooting with aforementioned friend and after putting about 300 rounds through each of our pistols, we unanimously agreed that my Sig was a much better choice - both fed reliably, but the Sig's DA/SA trigger was much better than the DAO trigger of the USP and we were both turning in remarkably tight groups on a 10 meter range despite being handgun novices. I felt vindicated, and he traded his USP on a Sig of his own. There isn't much more to say than that.

I've bought and sold numerous pistols since then, but that P229 is still with me. It's the one gun I would trust and depend on in a self defense situation - because I shoot it well and because I know it will absolutely fire when it has to. My only regret was in choosing a gun chambered for .40 - if I could do it all over again, I'd have picked up a P228 (9mm) instead. The P229 is the same gun (same grip/internals) as the P228, though slightly heavier thanks to the beefed up (milled) slide. The .40 is a bit snappy and a touch expensive to shoot.

This all said - what works for me won't necessarily work for you or anybody else. You can buy a gun that will do the job (e.g. Glock or XD) for less money. I have nothing against Glock from an objective standpoint - they're accurate and they work, though I don't like the way they look and they just don't really seem to have any "soul." I liken it to the difference between BMW and Lexus - both are respected names, but is the premium for one worth it? That's up to you to decide.

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