[yhtomit]

The transaction is still truly in progress (stemming mostly from my inexperience with Gunbroker -- just signed up for an account this evening for this very thing), but if all goes to plan I'll soon be the owner of a Witness Elite Match in .45 ACP. It's either a late Heller-decision commemoration or an early Independence Day purchase; I solidified my plan on Heller Day, though, so I'll think of it mostly that way.

Assuming that it really *does* all go to plan, this will be the 2d gun for which this durn site is responsible. (This time, though, I'm again employed, which makes me feel less guilty ;))

So, does anyone have spectacular photos of their own Witnesses to share? I've been warming up to the shape of the Witness, and to the two-tone coloration of the Match versions, over the course of a few years now, and I'm confident -- or at least this side of hopeful -- that I'll learn to truly like it. Good precedent for this: I really didn't find the Cz-75 all that good looking, despite its great reputation. Feeling one led me to buy it, and shooting it makes me like the shape just fine, thanks. The Witness shape is different enough (and interestingly chunky enough) that I believe I'll have to learn to appreciate it all by itself. And if the reputation is accurate, I'm sure this won't be my last Witness.

Perhaps shall go rent a lane at Coal Creek Armory (unless I find a rentable / usable shooting place east of Knoxville, which would be convenient) ... haven't bought any ammo for months, time to find out what insane price it now commands.

timothy

[borntwice]

Congrats. I like my CZ 75 P-01, but I have never handled a Witness. In any case, enjoy!

[yhtomit]

Congrats. I like my CZ 75 P-01, but I have never handled a Witness. In any case, enjoy!

Thanks! I was heavily (heavily) considering a P-01, because I am very pleased with my Cz75, but like the look and size of the P-01 a lot. I went with the Witness instead partly because it's a slightly more unusual pistol (to me at least!), and because if I should against some high odds decide to start shooting 10mm, I could do so with a moderately cheap conversion.

Also, I'd like to have a single-action gun in the quiver!

timothy

[IdahoLT1]

Congrats on your purchase. You should be very happy with it. Im considering buying a 38 Super conversion

Heres my 10mm

http://i29.tinypic.com/2q8vmh2.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/nlblnn.jpg

[phrozenlikwid]

You MUST take a ton of pictures and give us/me a detailed range report!!

I was very close to pulling the trigger on one of those, but I have had other projects come up first. I hear such good things about them, I still might try and pick one up once my wallet gets replenished.

Specifically, tell me about this trigger I keep hearing about.... (if you get a chance!)

[SDDL-UP]

No matter what you think of the looks of a CZ-75/85/ SP-01 or a Witness, the ergonomics are excellent.

I have six and a half CZ handguns right now, but a Witness Elite Stock in 10mm is on my "to buy" list. Hmmm - How many rounds does it hold in 38 Super?

[yhtomit]

phrozenlikwid wrote


You MUST take a ton of pictures and give us/me a detailed range report!!

Pictures may precede range report by quite a bit -- I'll be traveling much of the months of July and August, though I hope to get in a box or two of ammo as a function check.

SDDL-UP wrote:

"No matter what you think of the looks of a CZ-75/85/ SP-01 or a Witness, the ergonomics are excellent."

I've warmed to the Cz, and the Witness *has* been growing on me -- I am a big fan of getting the most-gun-for-the-money, and I like utility over flash. Seems like the Witness pistols (in various permutations, not just the Elite Match etc) are very high on that particular graph (quality-to-price).

The Stoeger Cougar is on my list for the same reason.

A top end in .22 should save me a lot of money, too :)

Cheers,

timothy

[CZF]

You will be impressed!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/10test.jpg

[schmeky]

I'll post some pics of mine later this evening. I know "Craig" has some really good pictures as well.

Your gonna' be happieeeee""""""";)

I'm a 1911 nut, but I have become a CZ/CZ Clone lover. All I have shot for the past 3-4 months is my CZ's and Witness. I have some suggestions on your Witness if you don't find the stock grips to your liking. Try it first, then let me know.

[IdahoLT1]

How many rounds does it hold in 38 Super?

They are 15+1 from the factory, but there is a website that has mag springs and base plates that will increase the capacity to 25+1 and 29+1. http://www.henningshootsguns.com/shop/magazines.html

[wingman]

I recently purchased a witness elite match in 45acp, very nice, excellent accuracy, I replaced the factory grips with cz75b hogue grips. I've fired perhaps 400 rounds commercial and reloads,I did have 3 or 4 ftf with my 200 SWC reloads but I believe the OAL was incorrect. I shoot mostly 1911's however this pistol has an excellent feel recoil is minimal in part due to weight. The only other thing I may change is add a fiber optic sight. I think anyone who purchases one of these will be happy with it.

[schmeky]

I think you'll like it. I have installed the fiber optic front sight mine and I really like it.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/schmeky/IMG_0251.jpg

[wally]

How many rounds does it hold in 38 Super?

Same as in 9mm, 18+1, although the mags are hard enough to get that last round in I usually am satisified with 17.

The Witness Elite Match is a wonderful gun for the money, easily amoung the best you can get for the price. In .45ACP its what the CZ97 should have been!

www.henningshootsguns.com has some mag extensions and followers to let you get 24+1 in .38 super or 170mm mags for 27+1 capacity.

--wally.

[yhtomit]

"The Witness Elite Match is a wonderful gun for the money, easily amoung the best you can get for the price. In .45ACP its what the CZ97 should have been!"

I love descriptions like that! I enjoy shooting .45 more than any other caliber that I personally have shot (won't rule out some new favorite down the line), which is why I went with the .45 rather than 9mm. But it's also because I'd been lusting after a Cz-97 for a while, but for a) $100 less and b) a slight broadening of my humble collection (different maker, different country of origin, different look) I figure the Witness will hold me for a bit.

Could you describe what you like about the Witness *better* than the Cz-97?

Now I will go mutter about economic realities.

timothy

[wingman]

Could you describe what you like about the Witness *better* than the Cz-97?

For me I picked the elite over the CZ97 because of the grip,the Witness
is basically the same grip as the cz75b which I prefer and I believe the
overall balance is better on the Elite Match

[neviander]

I just got a Witness Elite Match in .45, I love it so far, but I'm holding back a range report...the first time I got to shoot it I only got to put about 40 rounds through it, then I got called out for work. I'd like to really put it through it's paces and get the sights right before I lay down any kind of judgment. I am NOT disappointed at all right now though :)

How many rounds does it hold in 38 Super?
I know you can get 25 round magazines for the EM chambered for 38 super

[schmeky]

I have a Witness Elite Match 45 and a CZ-97. I have read the EM is a better gun than the 97, and in some cases this is true, especially if you consider the price of the EM.

Out of the box trigger (SA) goes to the EM, no doubt
Ergonomics - EM in stock trim, this is a close one
Accuracy - a tie
Build quality - a tie (I don't like the cheap roll pins in the EM and the mainspring is b_tch to change)
Reliability - a tie, they both use a ramped barrel and have nearly identical magazines
Sights - EM since they are adjustable and the front is easy to change to FO

I prefer the CZ-97, but only after you spend some money, thus putting the CZ in a higher cost bracket than the EM. If you're stretching your budget to get a new EM as opposed to a 97, the EM is a better "bargain".

I think the 97 is, with some minor mods, a better gun overall though.

[hags]

I have a Witness Elite Match 45 and a CZ-97. I have read the EM is a better gun than the 97, and in some cases this is true, especially if you consider the price of the EM.

Out of the box trigger (SA) goes to the EM, no doubt
Ergonomics - EM in stock trim, this is a close one
Accuracy - a tie
Build quality - a tie (I don't like the cheap roll pins in the EM and the mainspring is b_tch to change)
Reliability - a tie, they both use a ramped barrel and have nearly identical magazines
Sights - EM since they are adjustable and the front is easy to change to FO

I prefer the CZ-97, but only after you spend some money, thus putting the CZ in a higher cost bracket than the EM. If you're stretching your budget to get a new EM as opposed to a 97, the EM is a better "bargain".

I think the 97 is, with some minor mods, a better gun overall though.

Cheap roll pins in the EM? Could you expound on that? The CZ pins are as cheap if not cheaper.
Also, the EM uses a firing pin stop as opposed to a roll pin to secure the firing pin. Arguably the firing pin stop is a better method.

[schmeky]

hags,

The EM uses sheet steel roll pins for bearings surfaces for the trigger and hammer. CZ uses a hardened slip fit pin for the hammer.

The EM uses a very short mainspring angle bored into the grip frame, you have to remove the hammer to replace it, which means you have to remove the sear block. The CZ uses a full length mainspring that can be changed externally very easily, and the longer CZ mainspring means less stacking in the DA mode (when compared to the EM).

I like the FP stop on the EM, but in thousands of rounds with my CZ's, there has never been an issue with the firing pin/block mechanism.

For most, these are non-issues. I just like the build of the CZ better.

[hags]

I don't want to be argumentative because you make some good points......and like you said they are really none issues.

However, the roll pins in both the EM and CZ function as needed. You could, if desired change them out for any of your choice.

Yes, it is a little more involved to change the mainspring in the EM, but, IMO the triggers are usually so good that they do not require changing.

They are both fine guns, but I do prefer the EM to most CZs. I have shot a CZ-97 although not extensively. It is a nice handling gun.

[trickyasafox]

G-d I want one of these in 9mm its next on the list- mind if I ask you guys about what you paid for them?

[schmeky]

hags,

We're not arguing at all, just expressing opinions. You're right, they are both very fine pistols. I am fortunate enough to own both.

[IdahoLT1]

Mine was like $535 out the door after my local gun shop ordered it from their supplier. It did take 2 months for mine to come in because the 10mm's are very popular.

[wingman]

I purchased my elite match from the following they are super nice to deal with.

http://www.rrarms.com/index.php