[mtnbkr]

I live in a solid, middle-class community in Manassas, Va. Unfortunately, it is right next to a ghetto*. The street that my cul-de-sac connects to goes through our neighborhood and on through "the ghetto". The line of demarcation is so distinct, you can tell exactly where one community ends and the other begins. Neither I nor my wife have ever had a problem with these people. In fact, the few times I've spoken with any of them, they've been polite and friendly**. Plus, the residents of my community are all friendly and polite as well***.

That said...

We have a problem with the residents of "the ghetto" driving through our neighborhood at a high rate of speed while ignoring traffic signs and such. One of our neighbors down the street almost got hit by one of these "unfairly disadvantaged youths" while out walking her dog. She yelled at him to watch out and to obey the stop sign (not in so many words). He stopped, got out and threatened to "get his homeys and take care of her". She did the right thing by shutting her trap, dropping the dog off at the house, and going "elsewhere" for a couple hours.

What is the correct response that will keep this from happening again? In other words, if someone threatened you and your family like that, what would be a strong, legal response? Would the police even do anything about this?


Chris


*complete with crackhouses, illegal aliens, gangstas, and the like...haven't heard any gunfire or serious disturbances yet...

**the local LEO's make an effort to patrol "the ghetto" regularly, do a lot of community outreach, and bust crackhouses whenever they are discovered. From what I've heard, they have really cleaned things up there, but it's still rough.

***We've even tried to start a community watch program, but it can't attract enough people to get off the ground.

[MJRW]

You talking about Georgetown South?

[mtnbkr]

Was I that obvious?

Chris

[WYO]

I moved far away for the sake of my family. The police aren't going to fool with a "he said, she said" complaint of a threat, and they probably don't have the resources available to station an officer to deal with the aggresive driving.

[Leatherneck]

Was I that obvious?
Only to those who are familiar with Manassas/Georgetown South.

I'd say it's inadvisable for anyone not in a group to confront those types, no matter how much it makes you fume inside. Even if armed, the consequences long afterward (revenge) outweigh any sense of satisfaction one might get from "ripping them a new one." And, if one had to resort to lethal force in self-defense, there would be a cloud hanging over the successful defender who "started the confrontation."

Carry if you're able, know your limits, then get the hell out of Dodge. JMHO.

TC
TFL Survivor

[fish2xs]

>> what would be a strong, legal response?


Move out. Otherwise you're screwed.

[Leatherneck]

Was I that obvious?
Only to those who are familiar with Manassas/Georgetown South.

I'd say it's inadvisable for anyone not in a group to confront those types, no matter how much it makes you fume inside. Even if armed, the consequences long afterward (revenge) outweigh any sense of satisfaction one might get from "ripping them a new one." And, if one had to resort to lethal force in self-defense, there would be a cloud hanging over the successful defender who "started the confrontation."

Carry if you're able, know your limits, then get the hell out of Dodge. JMHO.

TC
TFL Survivor

[mtnbkr]

Well, moving is not possible at the moment. It's not as if we plan on living here longterm though. I figure we'll be out of here within 5 years regardless of the 'hood.

We've been here two years without a single problem other than a parking space dispute with some people on a nearby street (still part of our HOA though). It was resolved amicably and we haven't had a problem since. Also, our neighbors all tell us that they've never had any problems.

I think the problem was due to our neighbor being confrontational, a problem she has too often around here (parking, traffic, etc). Still, a threat of violence is a threat of violence. I want to know the best legal response should it happen to me or my family.


Chris

[fish2xs]

stay squeaky clean, unconfrontational and armed. always
back away from threats, remaining cool until you are forced
to blow their heads off...

'the gravest extreme' has good general advice on what you
usually can and cannot do - ie. being at home, being on
the street, etc. read it. it only relates to self defense
firearm situations though - not speeding.

basically, if someone wants to speed on your street, there
is nothing you can do about it other than call the cops - FWIW.

for what you want covered... sucking it up until you move
seems like your only option. threatening situations are
covered in the aforementioned book.

best of luck!
-phil

[Mike Irwin]

Petition the HOA to install speed bumps on the street.

Ask your local LEA for increased enforcement during times when homeys play drag strip.

You're in a particularly bad situation with a pregnant wife.

As Stef and Pitr see if they can sic the Crud Puppy on them.

[rick_reno]

Get together with some of your neighbors and build some speed bumps. Do it during the week and "look" official (orange vests, flag person(s), borrow some cones and use them) - that way if any police happen to drive by they'll be less likely to hassle you. Asphalt is cheap, and it should slow the homies down.

[Smurfslayer]

That's what they're paid for. The situation you describe was as mine but a few years back, only I was in a townhouse 'hood in Maryland. My wife came home one night to find someone parked in our assigned spot, so she parked behind them & offloaded her groceries. On her last trip out, some
"disadvantage youths" guests of a neighbor surrounded her car and made it clear that she didn't want to involve the police :confused: what for? who knows...

This situation was resolved peacefully, but the next day, I confronted the neighbors, after filing the police complaint. I made it clear there would be no more BS like that, ever, and that his guests better not ever come back. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't for at least 3 or 4 years. At least nobody my wife described to me or she ever saw.

Previous advice about moving is no doubt the best course. If you're locked in for a while, get on good terms with the police. If they have a 'hood resource officer, they'll be glad to help. Don't be afraid to be a landlord if you have to - Safety trumps financial stability...

Bear in mind, that in the situation you describe, the woman cannot be held "blameless" in the encounter pursuant to court decisions in the Commonwealth regarding the use of ( lethal, at least ) force. If she challenged with anything remotely confrontational, she initiated the conflict, and thus cannot be "excused" or "justified" allowing the situation to escalate. You mentioned "not in so many words" so perhaps she did not profane, or threaten, but just in case that's how it went down, be cautious. OTOH, if politely telling the disadvantaged youth to slow down, she was right to do so.

Now - disadvantage youth gets out of car... and threatens her ?

Evaluate as any other threat, act accordingly...
For starters - Cover ? Cell / 911 ? back off, give some distance ?

Is D.Y. armed or substantially larger than her ? Still present?

stationary or still coming ?

Still coming is an escalation beyond my tolerance at this point, but each person must make that judgment on their own.

HTH

[BrokenPaw]

Only to those who are familiar with Manassas/Georgetown South. There's a reason that those of us who live in the woods surrounding Manassas venture into town as infrequently as possible.Asphalt is cheap, and it should slow the homies down.If you put down just the right amount of asphalt, you can make the bumps low enough for regular cars to traverse, and high enough to stop a "lowered" pseudo-streetracer to high-center itself.

Not that I would promote, encourage, foment, incite, suggest, advocate, endorse, condone, or support any such action. Or laugh really hard if you did do it, either. :D

-BP, not fond of "Honda Civic Type R" street racers.

[Partisan Ranger]

My solution: Move to Winchester:D

No homies out here, well, at least not in the burbs. Downtown Winchester has its scarier areas, though.

[brownie0486]

My first thought was "it's time for videoman".

Document the situation over a period of time with videotape that can be set with time and date on the film. Newspapers from that day videoed in between "shots" of offensive behaviour that day document the day it was taken.

Video can be from a front window in the home, or another advantaged spot where the homeys do not see your actions.

Keep the police up to speed on your actions and documentation. The he said/she said of the situation will be evident to a court, prosecutor and the police.

Brownie

[mtnbkr]

HOA installed speedbumps aren't an option. The street in question is a City owned street. I need to start calling the police when I witness speeding/wreckless driving, but never seem to have my phone handy. :rolleyes:

I really need to put the local LEO's number on my cellphone's directory. That way, I can report it as it happens.

Chris

[rick_reno]

I assumed it was a city owned street. If the "powers that be" won't deal with your and your neighbors problem - then you either have to vacate or deal with the problem yourself.

[Standing Wolf]

Would the police even do anything about this?

They would where I live; in most parts of both coasts, however, I'd guess not.

[bogie]

Some areas in St. Louis have been blocked off (big ol' planters with trees in 'em) and roads turned into one-way drives... It seems to help - people can't cruise through, so they go around unless they live there.

[XLMiguel]

Raise Hell with local delegate, cops, anyone else you can think of, after all, "It's for the chilldren". How about a HOA petition to PW County for speed bumps? First get cops to to a 'speed survey' w/ mobil radar unit. Build documentation of the problem, even if you have to [help] make some up. Just the presence of that is often enough to modify behavior in some cases. Squeeky wheel gets the grease - be very squeeky. Good luck

[labgrade]

Funny.

We've been dealing with an""ad hoc "we want to form an association to further the hobby of a local AH!" committee" for over two years.

I won't go there, but, it's a private (dirt road) that the Sheriffs won't enorce the posted speed limit.

Yada.

Frustrations to no end & the likely outcome is we'll have to foot a leagl bill against the next-doors to prevent their own Naziism. $10K min versus a "ruling" by the CO SC.

My vote was a rented "this is your speed"/portable-thing sign & when exceed by 15 MPH, it shot 10 feet of logging chain through your windsheild, was "voted down."

Bummer.

[WilderBill]

How about speed bumps of the " someone dropped a couple of bags of cement in the street right before it rained" variety.
Be careful not to balock drainage or you can cause other paoblems.
At one time we had a problem on my street where bubba would hit a dip fast enough to leave the ground every time he came through and the local homeys were running the stop sign at the cross street of the same intersection.
I expected the two problems to cancel each other out sooner or later, but the local PD decided to just keep a patrol car at that intersection for a couple of days.
That was enough to change behavior for a while. Still, I sorta miss the "flying Chrysler". :p

[SIGarmed]

The correct thing for your neighbor to have done was to get on the phone and make a police report and get what happened on record. Did she get the plate number?Nothing was accomplished but what the idiot stop sign runner wanted. She got scared and left. That was the whole idea behind what the thug did.

I hope the police in the area will help out.

[cuchulainn]

As part of the other good suggestions here, I'd add:

1) Don't just complain. Make it formal. Collect a petition of your neighbors and present it at an upcoming council meeting.

2) While you're collecting signatures, seek out those neighbors who are connected in some way and enlist them to whisper in a few ears.

[brownie0486]

Keep the video rolling on incidents, if you don't, 300 people can say one thing and it's still the "he said, she said" scenario as far as the cops are concerned.

Violations need to be in their presence or documented in other way like the videocam. Then when they say, no way hose', that wasn't me, you have the evidence to put some meat into the cops teeth where they casn actually do something about it.

Brownie

[Smurfslayer]

Good suggestion on the video -

Only caution I have - check with the magistrate's office or local commonwealth's attorney's office on the legality of taping - particularly if you are recording sound... Without creating a discussion of reasonable expectation of privacy, this is a good idea on how to get the local cops to pay attention...

You could also get a couple of "role players" involved to portray the "innocent pedestrians" ;)

"hey, is that a news crew?"
"No, it's VIDEOMAN!" :D

[Quartus]

Do-it-yourself spedbumps have gotten people arrested and fined. Not right, but reality.


Low profile, video tape, cellphone ALWAYS on you, and keep the pressure on the local politicians. They respond to pressure.


And tell your mouthy neighbor to get herself shot in some other neighborhood. You don't want the flying bullets on your street, and she can expect to be sued if she attracts them.

[brownie0486]

Yes, video without sound is certainly always okay.
You may run afoul with sound as it may violate the "bugging" laws as mentioned.

My take on the video and sound from years of the PI work is that if it is in the public domain, there is no right to privacy in ones conversation, particualrly if the actions/words are able to be readily heard by anyone in the imediate area.

So if the video roles from the livingroom window to the cul de sac on a maintained/public road, the actions of others could be taped and recorded who would have no expectation of a private conversation and would expect others to be ableto hear them were there people around.

It is best to check with your local states DA for your district or research the laws relative this on the states website just ot be safe.

Imagine the guys reaction when the DA charged them with making threats to another at an altercation and the BG denies saying it [ making it a he said/she said situation ], then the video roles for the jury and they hear and see his actions and threats.

Pretty sure it would be case closed on this one if the evidence couild be preserved accordingly.


Brownie

[Jesse H]

I hate speedbumps.

Yes my car is lower, it suspension is advantageous for spirited driving and Sunday SCCA events. It's no lower than the stock Corvettes, Camaros, Ferraris, Porches...that I see running around.

Sorry for the off-topic drift, I hate speedbumps. Everybody else suffers because of a few idiots...alot like gun control.

[Quartus]

You may run afoul with sound as it may violate the "bugging" laws as mentioned.



Public place (the street) + video taping with sound = no problem. Plenty of case law that says there is no expectation of privacy there.