[Redlg155]

While at the Pensacola Gunshow I found a pamphlet on the ground and decided to pick it up. The title was "Fight Terrorism" followed by a picture of the twin towers burning. Beneath was another message "Get US out! of the United Nations".

After reading through the pamphlet I thought enough to go ahead and visit the website (http://www.getusout.org/) . I also saw they were affiliated with the New American Magazine. I had a good freind that used to get a subscription, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the magazine.

Between remembering what I had read in the New American Magazine some time back and events mentioned in the pamphlet, a few of these things seem to be a bit far fetched. Pehaps they are correct and I need to do the research to verify. Or perhaps some things are taken out of context or issues magnified by creative journalism.

I found out a good bit by looking at the website, but I learn more by the opinions and views of others also. So tell me folks, are they right on the money? A bit extremist in their views?

Good Shooting
Red

[Mike Irwin]

Isolationist and America First is my impression.

Lot to be said for those positions, but in today's world not entirely possible.

[MitchSchaft]

I agree with 'em. http://www.jbs.org/about/weareask.htm
Check out their FAQ to get a better understanding of what they stand for.

[Gordon]

They are 100% right. I started tactical training in 77 in earnest instead of attending anymore meetings. I'm more of a "doer" than a listener:banghead:

[cheygriz]

I am a staunch Republican Conservative. I am also a proud, patriotic American veteran, male, white, heterosexual and a follower of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan. My "right wing" credentials are unimpeachable. Now, having said that:

I attended one of the Birchers organizational meetings a few years ago, and these lunatic right wing fanatics scared the hell out of me. To me, looney toons fanatics that hate freedom, and call everyone who disagrees with them a communist, or fascist, or infidel or heathen are all equally dangerous.

In my considered opinion, the Birchers are just as looney, just as dangerous, and just as anti-American as Ralph Nader and his loonie "Greens."

[dacinokc]

Even if there are merits to the positions expoused by the Brich Society, the general public perception of them is that as a group, they are extremist, not centralist.
Personally I am a centralist on most issues, so they are not for me.

[pax]

First time I heard the name, I thought they might have something to do with wood toilet seats -- but then it would have been the Birch John Society, wouldn't it?

pax

F.=I.W.

[schild]

I am a member of the John Birch Society, www.jbs.org . I joined because of their pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, anti-U.N. agenda. THE NEW AMERICAN magazine, while a little deep at times is an excellent source of the truth.
GET US OUT of the UN!!!

[JohnBT]

(5th try at posting this - Server not responding)

I first learned about them from a song on a folk album by the Chad Mitchell Trio 30 or 40 years ago - Live at The Bitter End. One of my favorite lines... "There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee", or maybe "Fighting for the right to fight the right fight for the Right"

Oh, oh, and before we get to the lyrics, for past 30 years there was a bookstore a block from my home called the American Opinion Bookstore. If you went in there and giggled just once at the Get U.S. Out of the U.N. bumper stickers or the Right-wing books (I mean right of even me) they kicked your butt out. Birchers all the way.

John

Lyrics: by Michael Brown

Oh, we're meetin' at the courthouse at eight o'clock tonight
You just walk in the door and take the first turn to the right
Be careful when you get there, we hate to be bereft
But we're taking down the names of everybody turning left
Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society, help us fill the ranks
To get this movement started we need lots of tools and cranks
Now there's no one that we're certain the Kremlin doesn't touch
We think that Westbrook Pegler doth protest a bit too much
We only hail the hero from whom we got our name
We're not sure what he did but he's our hero just the same
Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Socialism is the ism dismalest of all
Join the John Birch Society, there's so much to do
Have you heard they're serving vodka at the WCTU?
Well you've heard about the agents that we've already named
Well MPA has agents that are flauntedly unashamed
We're after Rosie Clooney, we've gotten Pinkie Lee
And the day we get Red Skelton won't that be a victory
Oh we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Norman Vincent Peale may think he's kidding us along
But the John Birch Society knows he spilled the beans
He keeps on preaching brotherhood, but we know what he means
We'll teach you how to spot 'em in the cities or the sticks
For even Jasper Junction is just full of Bolsheviks
The CIA's subversive and so's the FCC
There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee
Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society holding off the Reds
We'll use our hand and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads
Do you want Justice Warren for your Commissar?
Do you want Mrs. Krushchev in there with the DAR?
You cannot trust your neighbor or even next of kin
If mommie is a commie then you gotta turn her in
Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Fighting for the right to fight the right fight for the Right
Join the John Birch Society as we're marching on
And we'll all be glad to see you when we're meeting in the John
The John, the John Birch So- ci- i- teee.

[Redlg155]

You cannot trust your neighbor or even next of kin
If mommie is a commie then you gotta turn her in


Hmmm..I could have sworn I've heard something like that before. It rings with familiarity...


Good Shooting
RED

[Gordon]

I don't like all that rhetoric but ya know you scoffers, its all DOCUMENTED rhetoric which counts ALOT more than anybodies OPINION.:banghead:

[CWL]

Never understood all of the agendas of the John Birch Society.

They tried to keep flouridation out of our water, said it was a communist plot. :confused:

The actual John Birch was quite a hero, both a missionary and OSS operative. Until he was executed by communists in China, - he believed in and worked for active involvement by both individual and country in world affairs.

Always confused me how he became namesake for isolationist group.

[M1911Owner]

In the early 1980's I had a good friend who was a local John Birch Society leader. He got me to subscribe to their magazine for a couple years. It seemed to me that they were rather over the paranoid edge about the Soviets.

A few years later, the Berlin wall came down, and the Soviet Union crumbled. The archives of the KGB and similar organizations were opened. And out of the archives came the admissions that virtually all the "crazy" stuff the JBS had been talking about was the spot-on, accurate truth.

I haven't followed them since. But, my experience from then is that they sure knew what they were talking about.

[geegee]

I remember meeting up with a guy back in the 1980's who was a local recruiter/leader for the JBS. I met him for coffee a couple of times for discussion, and a lot of his (and their) positions made sense. Trouble is, once you start getting into it just a little bit, in no time you're stocking up on books about the Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations, The Bilderbergs, Freemasonry, ad nauseum. I mean, I'm pretty conservative and not completely convinced that some conspiracies don't exist, but at some point it's time to take off the tin foil hat and get out in the sunshine. :scrutiny:

All their literature does make for pretty interesting reading and discussion, but for too many of the folks I see involved with them it results in mind-numbing paranoia. I've got what I believe is a pretty healthy dose of skepticism where our government is concerned, but everyone isn't a commie plant!

And last but not least, the guy I met with in the early '80's....everytime we were talking and he got all worked up about something, he'd get that white spittle forming around his mouth. To me it was all too perfect an image for me of the JBS. geegee

[Wildalaska]

More right wing loonies, this time dressed up nice...

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Back in the late '60's I was at the Louisiana State fair (just sort od across the line from where we lived) with my parents. The usual boring grown-up exhibit booths of pots and pans, vacuum miracle cleaners, vacation lots and gee-gaw hucksters were all set up in the single-walled building next to the Midway (of course) where my little brother and I wanted to be spending our Quality Family Time that cold November night. Of all the exhibits I remember in any detail at all was the "Authentic V.C. Prison Camp Replica" exhibit complete with "exact replicas of bamboo splits, wire manacles and a tiger cage for holding captured US of A Servicemen".

Brought to you exclusively by the proud patriots of the JBS, of course. Complete with literature and membership applications.

My dad was a Goldwater Republican. Voted for Nixon in 3 elections, and Reagan twice. Active Army officer, served from the day he graduated from Texas A&M until he went Reserve around that time. I think that I had never seen him cry before that night.
..not even when he was given his papers for the Berlin Wall, not during Cuba. My Dad filled out his card, gave the man in the black tie a sawbuck or something for the jar, and we went on home early.

Last summer when he broke a hip and went to the hospital he told me to bring up his wallet so he could get some phone numbers of family he needed to call. In his wallet was that faded card with his name, in his hand. I guess some images stick with us for reasons we can't explain, and some ideas just seem very right and reasonable without much prodding given the circumstances and the experiences you've seen.

I'm very proud of my father. He's not what I or anyone who knows him would say is a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy nut, although growing up in East Texas you'd figure there's a Commie around every fencepost and pine tree to hear some folks say it.
My third-grade teacher even made sure we learned "The Ballad of the Green Beret" that year, in public school. When he and my Mom heard me sing it with my class, he told me that he hoped I'd never get to wear one myself. It wasn't for many years that I figured out what he meant by that.

Regards,
Rabbit.

What can be more strange than to see a people obliged to obey laws they never understand. - Michel de Montaigne, Essays, 1588

[PAshooter]

I tend to be a "right-leaning centrist" who firmly believes in what you might call "American Ideals" and liberty and the constitution... all that stuff. That having been said...

IMHO these guys are right-wing loonies. Putting flouride in the water supply was a communist plot? Yeah - good old american kids are supposed to have teeth full of cavities!

You can believe in liberty without being so extremely far to the right that everybody looks like a communist from where you sit. Supporting nutcakes like this is what gets all gun owners painted with the "right-wing extremist" brush - and does our cause no good at all.

Just MHO, you understand.

[Tamara]

If you want information about the giant prisons the Trilateral Commission is building in the Canadian wilderness to hold all the American patriots after the black helicopters attack, they're your source, baby. ;)

[PAshooter]

What Tamara said :)

[Joe Demko]

They're tools of the conspiracy. The Trilateralists, Bilderbergers, Elders of Zion, NEA, Bolsheviks, NeoNazis, UN, Darwinists, Jesuits, et.al. formed the JBS as a well thought out disinformation campaign. This is how it works: Put a bunch of red-faced and spitting right-wing cranks front and center. Now have this manifestly non-credible group spew information about the conspiracy as part of their generalized ranting about all things "unamerican." The public at large will then consider the all-too-real conspiracy to be just another lunatic fever dream. Thus, the Conspiracy operates in the open! Which brings us to cell phones and the nanobots in the drinking water...

[0007]

Just to throw in my opnion, I believethere is a differance between the views often expressed in the Bircher's magazine (New American) and the often further out views of some of the members of the organization. The mag often has news articles that you will NEVER see in the "mainstream" media, and usually they have second sources to back up the articles. Of course, like all things written, some of it is someone's opinion. But the key here to keep in mind is that the only way to form an intelligent opnion is to get input from all sides of the argument. They don't "like" Bill Buckley, George Bush, or Hillary... They can't be all that crazy.

[2nd Amendment]

There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow lines and dead 'possums...

I'm not a member but I can't see any problem with them.

[matis]

Pax,

Wooden toilet seats? You're a riot!

In my old, left-wing days, I thought they were right-wing fanatics who found communists under every bed.

Now that I'm "...to the right of Attila the Hun..." myself, and I've learned that McCarthy was quite correct about communists in the State Dept. and the rest of the US gov., that the Rosenbergs REALLY DID commit treason, that the UN does hate us and is on its way to becoming a world socialist tyranny... maybe I should go look them up, no?

Matis

[Topgun]

I am also a fan of Barry Goldwater.

however, RR is another story. Read ALL about him before loving him.

It took Reaganomics only 8 years to increase the national debt from $1 trillion to about $3.5 trillion!
Given the spending habits established by the legacy of Ronald Reagan the national debt is now about $5.5 trillion!
The interest cost on the national debt now run about $250 million a year! When RR took office they were about $53 million a year.

So, take a moment to reflect on this fellow who voted for FDR four times.

............
Other than that, a lot of what the Birchers espouse is very good. They seem to suffer from a lot of overzealous members though.

[schild]

What do we believe?

We believe the American system of government, a Constitutional Republic, is the finest yet developed by man.

We believe the traditional moral values of our Judeo-Christian heritage form the cornerstone of Western Civilization, and that the family is the basic and most vital unit of society.

We believe the free market system, competitive capitalism, and private enterprise afford the widest opportunity and highest standard of living for all.

We believe in the dignity of the individual. The Society welcomes and enjoys the participation in its ranks of individuals from every walk of life and from all ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds. Judging others only by character and ability -- as we wish to be judged ourselves -- our common bond is a love for liberty and our rejection of totalitarianism under any label.

We believe that the rights of the individual are endowed by his Creator, not by governments; that the proper function of government should be limited to the protection of the rights to life, liberty, and property; and that individual rights are inseparably linked to individual responsibility.

We believe in patriotism based on principle, not on pragmatism, personality, or partisan politics.


Sounds real crazy to me!!!



:)

[matis]

Sounds crazy to me, too, schild. The worst form of civilization -- except for all the others (with apologies to Winstopn Churchill).

Well stated, schild!

Matis

[Wildalaska]

Like I said, dressed up nice...

[MitchSchaft]

Like I said, dressed up nice...

I want some proof from you guys who think jbs is off.
Talk is cheap, put your money where your mouth is :D.

[Art Eatman]

My problem with the JBS has little to do with their stated position on many issues. It has to do with the behavior of some of their membership and some of their official people. The "some" seemed to be rather too large a percentage of them for me to give much credence to the organization. I don't pay much attention to what folks say or what they have writen when their actions are contradictory.

Now, this all dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s, not long after I got out of the Army.

There was just too much of an attitude of, "I know the truth, and if you disagree with me you're some sort of ComSymp, if you're not already a full-fledged Party member." Some JBSers, when faced with disagreement in some smaller city or in a town, would begin a slander and innuendo campaignand, sadly, this was not a rare event. NW Florida was full of such doings.

The bottom line is that nobody tells me what to believe. Anybody who tries it is making a rather egregious mistake. The idea I should believe a JBSer because he quotes another JBSer as his authority strikes me as foolishness, at best.

Again, it's not the stated aims: I grew up on patriotism. It's the past behavior of a bunch of self-styled know-it-alls who had no tolerance for disagreement.

Art

[schild]

Incase anyone is wondering, the massive media campaign against the JBS that occurred in the late '50's and early "60's was lead by the Communist Party and liberal media. Sound familiar?

[Topgun]

"We believe the free market system, competitive capitalism, and private enterprise afford the widest opportunity and highest standard of living for all. "

I do hope that this EXCLUDES the so-called "free market" of Asian slave labor competing with US workplace rules to the INFINITE benefit to the "capitalist" corporations who have fired all US workers in the name of "free trade."

[chas_martel]

>There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow lines and dead 'possums...

Took the words right outta my mouth.

I am constantly amazed at how many people are shooting "us" in the foot by stating how moderate/centrist they are.

Jeeez, talk about being PC.

Tell me people, is extremism in the pursuit of liberty a vice?

We need to push HARD to work against our foes!

WWJTOYM - What would Jesus think of your moderation?

I guess you can just color me an extremist...............................

Crap to think I have come to a board like this and here crap like this. I guess I'll just go back to subguns.com! ;)

[schild]

Topgun- I think you'll find the JBS thinks China is a much greater threat than N.Korea or Iraq. I personally will go out of my way not to support China. The JBS have fought against NAFTA and other "Free Trade" agreements.
I don't seek members or converts for the JBS, just trying to help people find the truth. :)


www.jbs.org

[dacinokc]

It seems the JBS feels there is a grand conspiracy afoot, with several evil parties behind all things bad. The Trilateral commison, the UN, the Jews. This is also the stuff of the clan. Both groups feel there is a secret comspiracy, and only they know the truth, and if you are not one of them, then you are un american.
Sorry but I spent too many years in the military in far off places to take that from them.
The problem is the conspiracies don't exsist, and there are no evil plots by evil parties, no matter how much they want it to be that way. The "facts" they expouse are beliefs, not gods word in stone.
The proving is up to the JBS to provide to the rest of us. It is not up to "us"- Non JBS types to prove there is no conspiracy, that by the nature of the statement is not possible.
So if you need the greater purpose of conspiracy to understand the world around you, that is fine, but it may just not be based in reality.
Freemasons, Trilateralist and the councl of 33 eh?
:rolleyes:

[MitchSchaft]

The problem is the conspiracies don't exsist, and there are no evil plots by evil parties

And so only you know the truth, eh? And what does being in the military have to do with anything?
My point is, I would like to see a valid argument instead of talk.

I'm too new to all this to put up a decent argument :o .

[dacinokc]

Regarding my time in the military, my point was I am not inclinded to give favor to those who declare I am somehow un-amercian because I do not believe in the same set of conspricies they do.

No, I can't say, or would I ever declare, that only I have the truth, nor do I attempt to. I have become far less of an absloutist over the years, and would be the first to say there are other points of view and beliegs than mine, and I try to be tolerent of them. These are opinions afterall, not sheer truths of the world.

JBS on the other had does declare they have the truth. It is up to them to prove their truths, with facts, that can be substantaited from sources other than themselves. And their practice of tolerence of others opinions might add to their credability.

[Gordon]

I love the sound bytes and opinions of so many of the "centrists" accusing JBL of anti semitism and racisism ect. Sounds like the Democratic plank to me: all feelings and no factual substance. I guess you people couldn't read the JBL doctrine as quoted by Schild? Or choose not to read it . The 2nd amendment is in trouble because of (the lack of) thinking like that. Of course you are entitled to your OPINION just dont slander patriots please. Go do your shooting and let these people do their research and documentation. I'll be doing my shooting too. They just served to show me my targets, I'll handle the tactics. By the way Fluoride is poisionous and builds up in body, lowers fertility rate and lowers the IQ and is a toxic waste that corporatate greed wants to sell to gubbermint, even my liberal county gov was on to that one and voted permantly NO the most liberal co. in CA.!!:banghead:

[106rr]

I think the Birchers have been drinking too much of that FLUORIDE. The trilateral commision stuff is nonsense. Please cease and desist. This stuff is ancient.

[Wildalaska]

Go do your shooting and let these people do their research and documentation. I'll be doing my shooting too. They just served to show me my targets, I'll handle the tactics.

That is exactly what we are talking about. Gettin ready to hunt down and kill "enemies" huh?

BTW, I rmember seeing Birchers selling copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion at a gun show a few years back...yep a real bunch of patriots...

[Gordon]

How cum "birchers"(read bigots) are selling books in direct conflict to their creed as quoted by Schild ,oh yes you choose not to read what they actually believe in. And dont worry Wildalaska you aint on my list, unless you want my gun.

[cheygriz]

I've had a few Birchers tell me that the Jews "need to be controlled." When I asked if Hitler was "controlling" the jews, I was told they didn't approve of Hitler's methods, but that Zionism was the biggest threat in the world, because the Zionists controlled the communists.

I've also been told by Birchers that blacks were inferior to whites and orientals. "A little farther back on the evolutionary scale, you see."

I've also been told by Birchers that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Humphrey, JFK, Nixon, Ford and even Geo. Bush (the elder) were "card carrying communists."

And I'm supposed to find anything they say credible??????

Incredible, perhaps, but ceretainly not credible.

[Wildalaska]

And dont worry Wildalaska you aint on my list, unless you want my gun.

I see...and suppose I seek reasonable laws pertaining to firearms, does that put me on your list?

How about a Supreme Court Justice who rules against your view of the 2nd amendment, is he or she "on your list"?

Dont you think you should refrain from such inflammatory statements, if not for your own sake, but for the sake of the entire movement..??? We are advocationg putting people on lists here????

And I again challenge you..stop talking..grab that M16, walk down the street with the press watching and fight your arrest in court with the whole of the USA watching..or is it becasue you beleive that the US courts are controlled by some...nefarious entity?

[Gordon]

Yes!:banghead:

[schild]

When I joined the JBS a member came to my home to talk to my wife and myself, the purpose being to see if we dressed in camo or were anti-semantic or held racial predjudice. AFAIK "klan" members are not welcome or allowed in the JBS. Every group has a few wackos, aren't there liberal gun-owners?

[RikWriter]

I remember quite clearly being dragged to a meeting by my parents in the early 80s that turned out to be a JBS meeting. Had all sorts of loony-tune BS about the Illuminati, the Trilateral Society and the Bilderbergers. I've talked to quite a few Birchers at gun shows, set up at their tables with the New American magazine, and to a one they seemed like fruitcakes.

[Topgun]

NAFTA, Hillary, Dianne, the UN, GATT, or the PRIVATELY OWNED (yes that is correct) Federal Reserve bank that determines YOUR destiny.

So......they must be nuts.

[Gordon]

I am , and have been for 20+ years a raving Zionist, I promote an all black Presidential ticket of Alan Keyes and J.C. Watts (with Condalezza Rice as Sof State).As I said in other thread I'd join pink pistols (allthough I'm a breeder) and IMHO JB society is accurate in information (never heard about TR and the others being called commies in my 10 years of activity) . I'm sure there are wacko JB fringe members as in all other organization a few who pervert a good thing. funny everybody seems to "know" about that minority. That said I think all that rhetoric and getting stirred up is unhealthy. I have stood up in meetings and said " lets get out shooting(at targets) and tactically training"- my last meeting! I think they thought I was FBI agent provocateur so paronoia IS not healthy, shooting is REALITY.:banghead:

[2nd Amendment]

I see...and suppose I seek reasonable laws pertaining to firearms, does that put me on your list?

Yes, considering any reasonable laws were enacted decades ago.

How about a Supreme Court Justice who rules against your view of the 2nd amendment, is he or she "on your list"?

Absolutely.

Dont you think you should refrain from such inflammatory statements,

To what end?

if not for your own sake, but for the sake of the entire movement..???

So, it is more beneficial to the "movement" to be a group of kowtowing appeasers sacrificing Rights a little at a time as opposed to taking a stand and drawing the line which should have been drawn 60 years ago or more?

We are advocationg putting people on lists here????

Certainly. We are on theirs. Know thine enemy.

And I again challenge you..stop talking..grab that M16, walk down the street with the press watching and fight your arrest in court with the whole of the USA watching..

I fully expect to wind up doing something similar.

or is it becasue you beleive that the US courts are controlled by some...nefarious entity?

Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?

[matis]

2nd amendment,



Quote:
Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?



Both, actually!

Matis

_________

[bogie]

My problem with the birchers isn't one of semantics - it's that every time I see/hear one in public, they're generally a member of the tinfoil hat brigade...

Coupla years ago, I took a nonshooting girlfriend to a gun show, and met one... After getting away, I was almost ready to espouse that gun control is a GOOD thing when applied to some folks...

Then there was the guy who had a table at a show, who was actively campaigning for a republican congressional candidate, who went off on a rant about having been once abducted by aliens...

[Wildalaska]

We are advocationg putting people on lists here????Certainly. We are on theirs. Know thine enemy.


OK and just so Im clear, the original statement referred to shooting enemies...you share that view I suppose?

In other words, I and others who do not think like you are on a list to be be shot.

[2nd Amendment]

That would depend. Will you be coming after me? No? Then it isn't likely I'll be shooting at you specifically. In a general sense though, yes, those who "think differently" may get shot at if they insist on forcing their differing views down my throat. Rather the same as if I tried to force mine on "you", if you see the point...

[Joe Demko]

Wouldn't the world be a lovely place if we could just round up certain people and shoot them? Too bad we can never all seem to agree on just who those people should be.

[MitchSchaft]

No it wouldn't be. I guess you misunderstood him saying that about people who would come for his guns.

[2nd Amendment]

Maybe if someone were to post a poll...?

[RikWriter]

Gordon said:
I'm sure there are wacko JB fringe members as in all other organization a few who pervert a good thing. funny everybody seems to "know" about that minority.

If they truly are the minority, then I have never MET the majority. I guess that means the JBS needs to choose more carefully who it wants to represent its ideas in public forums.

[Gordon]

Who exactly and where exactly is a representitive of the JBS presenting JBS views on a public forum? O yeah the New American, please show me one example of any racist, homophobic or other bigoted quote from this official publication. I'll be waiting a long time I'm sure, but not for the sound bytes of unsubstainal opinon.:banghead:

[Redlg155]

I did a bit of looking in the New American website and found this..

The New American Issues in Focus (http://www.thenewamerican.com/focus/)

The pretty much list their stance and articles concering the following...
· Abortion
· Attack on Conservatives
· Bosnia
· Capital Punishment
· China
· Chinagate
· Communism
· Congress
· Conspiracy
· Constitution
· Constitutional Convention
· Council on Foreign Relations
· Cuba
· Drugs/Drug War
· Earth Charter
· Economics
· Education
· Elections/Campaigns
· Energy
· Environmentalism
· Family
· Flight TWA 800
· Flight KAL 007
· Government
· Gun Control
· Health/Health Care
· Homosexuality
· Immigration
· Impeachment
· International Criminal Court · Iraq
· John Birch Society
· Kosovo
· Media
· Military
· National Service
· NATO
· Oklahoma City Bombing
· Organizations
· Panama Canal
· Patriot Movement/Militias
· Pearl Harbor
· People (36 Profiles)
· Police State Threat
· Population Control
· The Presidency
· Property Rights
· Race in America
· Religion/Traditional Values
· Russia
· Support Your Local Police
· Taxes
· Term Limits
· Terrorism
· Trade
· United Nations
· U.S. History
· Vietnam War
· Waco
· World Bank/IMF
· Year 2000 Computer Bug

Made for some interesting reading, although my head started to hurt after a while. :D

I know there are many followers, but does anyone know of how many active members the Birch Society has? How does the organization recieve financing?

Good Shooting
RED

[JohnBT]

I did a quick Google search on John Birch Society Membership and found that:

JBS does not release membership numbers.

Estimates seem to range from 5,000 to 60,000 based on calculations and statements of members and former members.

John

[RikWriter]

Gordon said:
Who exactly and where exactly is a representitive of the JBS presenting JBS views on a public forum? O yeah the New American, please show me one example of any racist, homophobic or other bigoted quote from this official publication. I'll be waiting a long time I'm sure, but not for the sound bytes of unsubstainal opinon


I never mentioned racism or homophobia. I said the John Birchers I MET (not read, not saw on the internet but MET) in real life at the meeting I attended and manning tables at gun shows were spouting conspiracy theory crap like nonsense about the Illuminati, Trilateralists and Bilderbergers, not to mention the supposed "detention camps" being built, Soviet vehicles seen on US rail cars for use by Russian troops to disarm us, etc...

[Gordon]

And what documentation do you have to prove those subjects are"nonsense". Here is one source of Russian recently declassified documents that prove , yes they did infiltrate US Gov to the highest levels, and yes they had a lot of "fellow travelers" who proved and are now proving "useful idiots". "The Sword and the Shield - The Mitrohhin Archive" Christoher Andrew and Vasili Mitrohhin - Basic Books (not in ANY way associated with JBS) But just keep believing in the anecdotal slander as research takes(ugh) too much time.Or just drop me a line on the innocence of the Builderburgers based on the minutes of their last meeting...:neener:

[PAshooter]

RikWriter, WildAlaska, and the rest. Give it up. You know what they say about arguing on the Internet being like competing in the Special Olympics...

Just put your tinfoil hats on and shut up.

[Bainx]

I agree with them about getting the U.S. out of the U.N.
We owe the UN nothing. We are a soverign nation and don't need them helping to form our domestic policies. Period.

It's bad enough when you read on the entrance sign to the Great Smoky Mountains......"The Great Smoky Mountains National Park,
An International Biosphere Reserve".
The Biosphere Reserve refers to the U.N. "Man and Biosphere"
doctrine in which the U.N. aims to get control of national parks and other pieces of real estate world-wide.

Don't believe it?
1. Drive to the park entrance and read the sign
2. Surf into U.N. website and read about the "Man and Biosphere" doctrine.

Oh and by the way, the U.N. has a doctrine about "limiting small arms"world-wide. Thought you might like to know.

Please don't even get me started on the pure junk science of "Global Warming", championed by the U.N.

[RikWriter]

Gordon said:
And what documentation do you have to prove those subjects are"nonsense". Here is one source of Russian recently declassified documents that prove , yes they did infiltrate US Gov to the highest levels, and yes they had a lot of "fellow travelers" who proved and are now proving "useful idiots". "The Sword and the Shield - The Mitrohhin Archive" Christoher Andrew and Vasili Mitrohhin - Basic Books (not in ANY way associated with JBS) But just keep believing in the anecdotal slander as research takes(ugh) too much time.Or just drop me a line on the innocence of the Builderburgers based on the minutes of their last meeting


What evidence do *I* have? Listen fella, if I walk up to you and claim that invisible unicorns live in your garage, it's not up to YOU to prove me wrong, it's up to ME to prove I'm right.
And you're bringing up red herrings AGAIN...I never mentioned Communist infiltration, so don't put words in my mouth.

[schild]

Reguarding cost of membership and number of members, Family(?) membership for my wife and I is $60/year, subscription to THE NEW AMERICAN magazine is $39/year(26 issues?) Even if you don't join the magazine is very good. I had a subscription for five years before joining.
I don't have an answer to the number of members, but there are just under 40,000 paid subscriptions to THE NEW AMERICAN.

[dacinokc]

As a patroit, and an attourny, I will defend the rights of anyone to belive what they do, no matter how opposite of mine, so I wish the Birch members here well.
I am personally very pleased to see the number of independent minded, thinking sceptics here, it does my heart good to see that level of thought on the part of my fellow membersmembers here.
The easy course of life is to belive what appeals without finding out for yourself the independent facts, to not have to come to hard decisions on your own. It is easy in life to adhere to a doctrine to have a artificial moral high ground over others and in turn hard to stand up to others questioning you patriotism if you don't think exactly like them.
So the the JBS members, I wish you well, and to the others in this string, I say congratulations to staying the hard course.

[PAshooter]

dacinokc:

Very well put. I wish no one here any ill will... and certainly none based upon their beliefs. Whether or not we agree, reasonable people can disagree without becoming disagreeable.

Thank God we (still) live in a free country where differences of opinion are not only tolerated but are a basic part of our national character.

I wish all here well - and celebrate the beliefs we have in common (like, for example, the RKBA).

Molon Labe :cool:

[Drjones]

Even if there are merits to the positions expoused by the Brich Society, the general public perception of them is that as a group, they are extremist, not centralist.

You do know that being a Constitutionalist will get you branded an "extremist" by the communists in this country, don't you?

[Zundfolge]

I always hear about how wacko right wing extrimist The John Birch Society is, then I meet some JBS members and they aren't the wacko conspiracy theorists we always hear they are.

I can't help but wonder if much of the anti JBS attitude among many conservitaves and libertarians isn't part of a liberal media "divide and conquer" tactic. Remember the same sources who tell us the JBS is a bunch of wacko extremists say the same thing about the NRA.


While I don't agree with many JBS positions (like opposing flouride in water for example) I do believe they are more on "our" side then the DNC.

[CaesarI]

This is what I got based on a cursory examination of the material:

-Pro-Life
-Death Penalty up to States, generally support it.
-View China as a threat.
-Anti-Communism (duh)

"Prior to the advent of the income tax in 1913, of course, the federal government had to rely heavily on tariffs because few other revenue streams were available, and so had a powerful incentive to set tariffs at a level that would maximize revenues.

But once the income tax became the primary source of revenue, the federal government was free to set tariffs on the basis of "protectionist" or "free trade" policies -- either making tariffs so exorbitant that imports would be curtailed or eliminating tariffs depending on the prevailing political climate -- without regard to the resulting loss in revenue. "

Generally not protectionists per se... it seems their objection is one of giving foreign bodies like the WTO the power to control our laws.

-Anti-Nationalized Healthcare

-"Homosexuality is a chosen behavior with self-destructive consequences. " yeah, you can guess where this goes :rolleyes:

-Pro gun

-Anti-Publik Skuls

-OKC bombing: Believe there was a "cover-up"

-CFR paranoia

-Anti-Taxes, Fully aware of the "hidden tax" of inflation. Note the belief in reverting back to "tariffs for the purpose of raising revenue"

-Pro Religion and "Traditional Values.

-Anti-Immigration

-Anti USA PATRIOT Act.

-Anti-Public Service, a big surprise, almost mirrors the ARI's anti-forced community service.

-Pro ABM defenses.

-Fuzzy on the drug war. Believe drugs imported into the country are a Communist conspiracy.

-Pro Private property. Oppose federalizing land for wilderness purposes.


Anyway... there are some bits that are a little "out there" but the rest of it is solid enough it makes you at least wanna consider what they're saying. A lot of their stuff has good source citing, a lot does not.

I tend to think they're kind of "right wing" Libertarians. Definitely not WSJ sorts either though.

-Morgan

[Drjones]

Thanks for all that, Caesar.

If beliefs like that get one painted a "right-wing whacko extremist" even by conservatives, then count me in because I agree with almost all of the above points.

:)

[rock jock]

Where do they stand on Coke vs. Pepsi? (and I don't mean new coke because that was all just a big commie conspiracy that thank john moses browning was stopped by ronald reagan a true american to be sure except for when he made a treaty with the aliens to let them use our brian waves to power their spaceships that look coincidentally like the goodyear blimp oh where oh where is my tinfoil hat when i need it.............)

[Drjones]

I'm considering joining them.

Are they effective? Do they actually accomplish stuff?

I looked at their self-proclaimed accomplishments on their website, but want your guys' opinions.

[CaesarI]

I ain't heard about'em in any news in forever. I'm an Objectivist (or at least I call myself one), which means I get to disagree with the Libertarians on a few issues, and the Republicans on a few more.

Half the time, I think Bill Buckley might've had the right idea. The other half of the time, I wanna arrange my life so as to minimize the amount of money the government gets from me.

The "Right" I find, more than the left, suffers from people who don't compromise, because they are far more moral than those on the left. We fractionalize ourselves by doing this. Reading a bio on Bill Buckley I read about all sorts of great people who left him because of a strong disagreement on a single issue. You never read about the Left doing that.

Change I think, is best affected from within. So even though Buckley and Rand never got along, I think the Republicans are philosophically, more in agreement with me than the Democrats. I also think they're our best chance at reachieving freedom. How did Franklin phrase it? "We have to hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

But ask me at a different time of the month (for the record I'm male), and perhaps you'll get a different answer.

-Morgan

[schild]

If you subscribe to THE NEW AMERICAN for one year you will know if you want to join. FYI- I was a little suspicious when I first subscribed so I gave them a slightly misspelled version of my name to see if they sold their subscription list. They did not.

[Dilettante]

I haven't read the New American much for about 20 years. Around that time I had a subscription--a present from right-wing relatives.
Of course the culture has changed in 20 years, and maybe JBS has too.
What I remember was one issue's cover interview. It was with a doctor named Paul Cameron, who doesn't like gays. He still shows up now and then.

On the outside, and on the inside near the front, was a warning. I don't remember the whole thing or the exact words, but it was roughly

This issue contains material that may be offensive to decent Americans. To provide information to protect your health we have had to print graphic descriptions of the disgusting practices of homosexuals.

Around that time, my relatives heard that I wasn't wild about the New American, and they gave me a subscription to Conservative Digest instead. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Another memory: when Joe Biden's history of plagiarism came out, I looked up an old issue and found that Conservative Digest had most of the story a couple of years earlier.

A few years after that, I saw another New American cover with a picture of Yeltsin and some Chinese leader shaking hands. Apparently the breakup of the USSR was just a cover to get us off our guard. :rolleyes: