The Urban Battle Ax...


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Goblin
July 5, 2008, 09:27 AM
18" handle. 3 1\2" cutting edge. Ouch!!!

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/epstanton/mypics025.jpg

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kamagong
July 5, 2008, 09:39 AM
This is my UBA.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5320/christianhawk2li8.jpg

Landlocked Pirate
July 5, 2008, 11:44 AM
I can't quite make out the name brand on that fine-looking weapon. What kind is it?

Okiecruffler
July 5, 2008, 11:50 AM
Ah, you guys need to step into the future, or past or whatever....
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h234/okiecruffler/100_2750.jpg

Don't ask, a gift from a very strange friend.

GearHead_1
July 5, 2008, 11:52 AM
You are scary crowd.

AndyC
July 5, 2008, 12:06 PM
This is my UBA.
Gorgeous wood - what is it?

The Tourist
July 5, 2008, 12:19 PM
Since Wisconsin is so touchy on firearms and self defense, I've often wondered about customizing some garden variety CS axe with a mirror finish edge. Any potential home invader is going to wet himself facing that.

My only concern is the media blitz after the fact. To be sure, any attack is going to result in a major trauma, like the loss of a limb. Around here with this liberal bent, I'm sure I'd be demonized guarding my own home.

"Bipolar Biker Hacks Up Intruder."

Still, some of those CS axes are only thirty bucks on "Special Projects"...

Creature
July 5, 2008, 01:19 PM
Gorgeous wood - what is it?

That is tiger stripe or curly maple.

But this effect can also be achieved by "fire burnishing" a hardwood such as birch, walnut or dark maple using leather strapping wrapped around the handle and burnishing the handle over an open fire. This fire burnishing technique also "hardens" the wood and has been used for hundreds of years.

Fire burnished:
http://www.north-river-custom-knives.com/images/soh2.jpg
http://www.north-river-custom-knives.com/images/t-d29-1.jpg

Genuine curly maple:
http://www.twistednickel.com/itemsforsale/tomahawk1Lrg.jpg

armoredman
July 5, 2008, 01:36 PM
Okie cruffler, I like it! Is it real steel or a display model? As for using a camp axe or such for self defense, axes have been a primary defensive weapon for people for centuries. Can't beat the design as useful for both utilitarian chores and self defense if neccesary. Never runs out of ammo, either. :)

Okiecruffler
July 5, 2008, 02:08 PM
Honestly I couldn't tell you what it is. I would guess some kind of cheap steel. It is sharp after a fashion, but I haven't paid a bit of attention to it. In fact I had to dig it out of the closet to get a pic for this thread. It's back in the closet now. Was given to me by a guy who has a house full of flea market swords. He's convinced they are investments.

DAVIDSDIVAD
July 5, 2008, 03:39 PM
I can't even remember how I managed to do that.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/2840/p1040295gs4.jpg

Soap
July 5, 2008, 09:42 PM
I'm digging my AT VTAC so far!

CWL
July 6, 2008, 01:06 AM
Kamagong, is that 'hawk made by Louis Tortorich?

I have a 'hawk like that forged from a farrier's rasp.

shecky
July 6, 2008, 02:58 AM
Honestly I couldn't tell you what it is. I would guess some kind of cheap steel. It is sharp after a fashion, but I haven't paid a bit of attention to it. In fact I had to dig it out of the closet to get a pic for this thread. It's back in the closet now. Was given to me by a guy who has a house full of flea market swords. He's convinced they are investments.

That purveyor of fine zombie killing tools, Budk comes to the rescue!
(http://budk.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_05+BK1200)

Okiecruffler
July 6, 2008, 03:59 AM
Well, that answers that. Turns out it's solid, mirror polished, stainless steel.

TimboKhan
July 6, 2008, 04:31 AM
Anything that includes "Piercing spikes" has just got to be rad.

I have always sort of wanted a Tomahawk, but I just don't know where or what I would use it on as I don't anticipate going into battle anytime soon, and I already have a little hatchet for cutting up wood. Still, the idea of a handy battle-hatchet has always been a sweet siren song to me.

Timthinker
July 6, 2008, 06:36 AM
Some of our "battle axe brethern" may find the following true story interesting. Many years ago, a family friend and his wife returned home one evening to discover their home had been buglarized. This gentleman, a former U.S. Army boxer, grabbed a camping axe from his garage and instructed his wife to telephone the police from a neighbor's house. He then crept indoors with the axe raised overhead. Fortunately, no one was there. He later told my father that he felt confident that his old camping axe would have sufficed in case of trouble.

The point to this story is do not discount the sheer power of an axe welded by a large, determined person. The axe still remains a deadly weapon in the right hands.


Timthinker

Dionysusigma
July 6, 2008, 08:03 AM
Closest thing I have, except a few differences (made in 1944, square head, metal sheath, built like a tank, been through hell, etc.). Not sure of the country of origin, though.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_2007_30565343
http://www.coldsteel.com/92sfs.html

TimboKhan
July 6, 2008, 08:31 AM
The point to this story is do not discount the sheer power of an axe welded by a large, determined person. The axe still remains a deadly weapon in the right hands.

Word. My last point might have come across as me thinking that the ax was sort of mall-ninjaish, but the fact is that I would rather have an axe than a sword. Of course, if I were engaging in medieval style combat in general, I would rather have a halberd or spear than either, but the fact remains that I was being quite serious when I said that battle-axes were cool.

Dionysusigma
July 6, 2008, 08:44 AM
Of course, if I were engaging in medieval style combat in general, I would rather have a halberd or spear... Pfft. Minimalist.

Use a trebuchet. :evil:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Trebuchet_Castelnaud.jpg/800px-Trebuchet_Castelnaud.jpg

Timthinker
July 6, 2008, 09:02 AM
TimboKhan, I think we both agree that axes, spears and other edged weapons are just as deadly today as they were in ages past. True, blades have not been the primary weapons of soldiers for centuries, but they can still wreak havoc in determined hands. I hope to read some more commentaries about edged weapons here in the future. Until then, good luck.


Timthinker

TimboKhan
July 6, 2008, 11:15 AM
Use a trebuchet

Pshaw. Your trebuchet doesn't even have enough room to load even half of a dead rotting cow, or more than three severed heads. :evil:

As a side note, I was probably a sophomore in high school before someone informed me that it was "tray-boo-shay" as opposed to "Tree-bucket". Darn French and their stupid "words".

Edit to add: Wait, is that even a French word?

jahwarrior
July 6, 2008, 11:50 AM
you call those axes? p'shaw.

this is an axe:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/jaysin8308/Guitars/kra_axe.jpg

Creature
July 6, 2008, 03:09 PM
Cold Steel offers precision drop forged hawks made from medium carbon 5150 steel...for a very reasonable price. I own many hawks...custom and factory (over two dozen and counting).

http://www.ragweedforge.com/cs.jpg

The Trail Hawk is the one that I gravitate to and use the most out of all of them. It is light enough to be quick but heavy enough to use as a hammer or crusher.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/90t.jpg

Goblin
July 6, 2008, 04:51 PM
I would like the traditional "Hawks" more if they were more firmly attached to the handle. I don't see how any one could use them for anything practical!!!

Okiecruffler
July 6, 2008, 06:16 PM
Just remember, don't bring an axe to a tree bucket fight.:D

JShirley
July 6, 2008, 06:33 PM
do not discount the sheer power of an axe welded by a large, determined person

Hm. Don't discount the power of an axe wielded by a small determined person, either.

John, like axes :neener:

Soap
July 6, 2008, 07:21 PM
I would like the traditional "Hawks" more if they were more firmly attached to the handle. I don't see how any one could use them for anything practical!!!

What makes the traditional design so untrustworthy?

Goblin
July 6, 2008, 07:35 PM
They will slip down the handle!!!:)

Carl Levitian
July 6, 2008, 07:57 PM
The other problem with 'hawks is they don't look like something that you were using in the back 40.

These days, how something looks is very important in the aftermath of a conflict. P.C. is here to stay, want it or not. If I were going to use a hatchet as a self defence tool, I'd pick one from the hammer/hatchet selection at Home Depot. Take it out back at home and chop some stuff with it, get it smeared with sap and leave it alone. Grundgy and used is good. Equal to or even better than a 'hawk, is a roofers hatchet, with a blade on one side and a hammer head on the other side of the poll. Eastwing makes some nice ones with an all steel handle.

Merledog
July 6, 2008, 08:09 PM
I've always believed the larger Estwing axe, campers axe?, would make a great urban battle axe. I've used mine for years for trail clearing, and all kinds of miscellaneous chopping. Light, decent reach, chopping power beyond what you would think to look at it. Only problem is for heavy repeated blows the metal handle will start to bow, just reverse it and give some full power blows with the hammer end to an unforgiving stump or log and keep going. I always keep it within easy reach in the shop or garage. FWIW it throws pretty good too!

alemonkey
July 6, 2008, 09:12 PM
They will slip down the handle

I believe the handle is tapered, with the thickest part at the top, and very tight fitting. The ones I've seen didn't seem like they had any likelihood of slipping. The axe head wants to keep going up and getting tighter due to the momentum of the swing.

kamagong
July 7, 2008, 01:14 AM
Gorgeous wood - what is it?
Creature is right, it is curly maple.

Kamagong, is that 'hawk made by Louis Tortorich?

I have a 'hawk like that forged from a farrier's rasp.
You're half right. The head was forged from a farrier's rasp by Ryan Johnson of RMJ Forge. I got it back in 2001 for the princely sum of $95. His prices have gone up a little bit since then.

Tom Krein
July 7, 2008, 01:44 AM
The tomahawk is a truly formidable weapon when wielded by a person that knows what he is doing. It has pros/cons, but when understood it can be very effective. It is not quite as versatile as a big bowie/dagger, but it has a lot of raw power.

Dionysusigma, I have one of those shovels in each of my vehicles. Much more under the radar in todays world and combat shovels are VERY effective, just ask the Spetznaz!

My friend Ryan at RMJ Forge makes some of the best Combat Hawks being made in my opinion! Here is a link to his site... LINK (http://www.rmjforge.com/)
He also makes some pretty kick @SS traditional hawks!

Tom

TimboKhan
July 7, 2008, 06:20 AM
Just remember, don't bring an axe to a tree bucket fight.

This made me laugh very hard... I am still laughing...

Soap
July 7, 2008, 08:17 AM
They will slip down the handle!!!

Naaah, physics are on your side! And a well made hawk has very good handle to head fit. Even if it does slip down (I've only seen it on cheap ones), just put it back to the top and drive some nails into the top of the handle.

Rupestris
July 7, 2008, 08:40 AM
I don't have an Urban Battle Axe.:(

But I do have a Suburban Battle Hatchet :evil: Its got some miles on it too.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg135/Rupestris/Fiskars002.jpg

Chris

Drusagas
July 7, 2008, 11:21 AM
My battle axe

younganddumb
July 7, 2008, 04:31 PM
why not use tar and feathers if were going mid-evil times over here

Okiecruffler
July 7, 2008, 06:29 PM
Tar has been declared an enviromental hazzard, and collecting feathers can get you charged with cruelty to animals. Closest we can come now is organic blackberry jam and hemp fibers.

Kosh75287
July 7, 2008, 06:51 PM
There's almost nobody out there who does NOT know more about edged weapon combat than me, so I defer to anyone who's even THOUGHT about the matter. But I was wondering what folks thought of that "WoodsmansPal" tool that's available. It looks a lot like a short, wide bladed machete, but with a reversed edge toward the top. I assume that the latter feature is for removing smaller limbs from tree trunks and such.

Joe Demko
July 7, 2008, 09:54 PM
Since we had at least one goofy fantasy weapon in the thread, I just thought I'd add that this (http://images.solidcactus.com/swblades/buswfrfifa.jpg) is the dumbest thing I own. It was only $35 and my love of all things Final Fantasy demanded one for the wall of my recreation room.

Rupestris
July 7, 2008, 10:17 PM
Oh... Jebus... :what:

Joe, you gotta post pics of the rec room. I gotta feeling theres a Lara Croft poster or figure or lifesize cardboard cut-out in there somewhere. If not that, a first edition anime graphic novel (comic book to us old folks) framed on the wall. :D

Kidding of couse Joe. I still got some diecast cars so don't feel like I'm pickin' on ya.

"Growin' up leads to growin' old and then to dyin'.
And dyin', to me, don't sound like all that much fun."
John Mellancamp

Have fun,
Chris

Claymore1500
July 8, 2008, 12:17 AM
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/f050aNFhIgNqNdgiblajWlYYNF2X78FQLLAev4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg

not a battle axe but it WILL part your hair.


Yes that is a M.N.91/30 next to it, just to show size, Also it weighs in a 9 pounds.

Timthinker
July 8, 2008, 03:47 AM
Kosh, during World War II, the U.S. government issued a booklet to its troops on how to fight with your machete. That booklet was entitled Fighting With U.S.A. Knife LC-14-B. You may wish to perform an online search for it. I hope this information proves useful.


Timthinker

TimboKhan
July 8, 2008, 05:25 AM
Kosh, the Woodsman Pal is a very well regarded tool that has been around an awful long time. If your into camping or clearing brush around the house or something along those lines, I suspect that you would be exceptionally happy with it.

Despite it's great reputation, it is still more or less just a machete and I would assume that it would have all the advantages/disadvantages of any other machete when used as a weapon, with the exception of the brush hook.

Okiecruffler
July 8, 2008, 04:17 PM
Since we had at least one goofy fantasy weapon in the thread

I must have missed that one.:neener:

CZ.22
July 8, 2008, 04:24 PM
I have a CS Pole Axe in my room. Something tells me a jury wouldn't be particularily friendly to me if I went all grim-reaper on someone with it.

I don't completely agree that you shouldn't use a hawk for defense- just don't use one that you've modded out with a P-cord handle and green paint job. If it looks more like something out of The Patriot, than out of Rambo, it should be fine. You might want to store it with an old-style hunting knife and buckskin belt.

rcmodel
July 8, 2008, 05:40 PM
the U.S. government issued a booklet to its troops on how to fight with your machete. That booklet was entitled Fighting With U.S.A. Knife LC-14-B.The LC-14-B is the Woodsman's Pal.

Here are the booklets out of one of mine.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Woodsmanbooks1.jpg

Note the very politically incorrect first line!
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Woodsmanbooks2.jpg

And the caricature of the Jap solder!
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/Woodsmanbooks3.jpg

As for fighting with one, it would really be more of a Fairbairn Smatchet then a Machete.
I sure wouldn't want to get smacked, chopped, poked, or hooked with one!

rcmodel

RogersPrecision
July 8, 2008, 05:47 PM
I'm proud to own an old copy of Soldier of Fortune magazine with an article by the late Jeff Cooper entitled 'Secrets of Moderrn Battleaxe Fighting'.
Autographed by Jeff Cooper himself!
:D

rswartsell
July 8, 2008, 07:40 PM
My grandfather worked in a coal mine when young and lived in coal company owned housing. Unable to afford firearms at the time he successfully defended a home invasion with one of these universal hillbilly tools. Later changed jobs, home, and weapon of choice.

Okiecruffler
July 8, 2008, 08:33 PM
I can't help but think that the sight of someone advancing with an axe in hand would have much the same effect on someone's attitude that the sight of SXS shotgun would have. We've been conditioned by movies to fear the axe.

rantingredneck
July 8, 2008, 08:38 PM
I have two Cold Steel Frontier Hawks (see Creature's Pic on page 1, far left).

I also have a Gerber Backpaxe that is RAZOR sharp.

Voodoochile
July 8, 2008, 09:37 PM
My Hawk from FL-Flinter.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/7323983/aview/Hawk.jpg

It has a very workable head as I've used it to chop some branches back around my back yard.

JShirley
July 8, 2008, 10:15 PM
I like axes. This is one made by HI, to which former moderator Kaylee added a custom red oak handle for me. (With Oleg and Scott T.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Jinete_delViento/scott-jshirley-oleg.jpg

In general, though, I like kukuris (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Jinete_delViento/?action=view&current=GRSAK1.jpg)even more....

JohnMcD348
July 8, 2008, 10:18 PM
I do personally know someone who has at least 1 confirmed kill with the good ole U.S. MilSpec Trifold.

Used during combat conditions when unable to get the free hand to his weapon.

p35
July 9, 2008, 12:39 AM
I have a couple of those double-bitted axes- here in former logging country they're common at garage sales and second hand stores. I've noticed that some just "fit" better than others- I like using the slightly shorter one a lot more than the long one. Lots of people assume that they're weapons- I keep one in the RV for firewood at camp and get some odd questions about why I have such a thing.

TimboKhan
July 9, 2008, 01:36 AM
In general, though, I like kukuris even more....

I can dig that. I have a cheapo CS Kukhri that I keep by my bed. Mostly it's used as a back scratcher, but I have on occasion taken it out and whacked small branches and whatnot with it. I actually bought it as a tool for my truck and it just has never managed to find it's way there. I guess it's more valuable to me as a backscratcher. lol. I would also add that there is no finer instrument for dividing up a watermelon, and it proved to be pretty darn effective on coconuts as well.

If your unfamiliar with the design, the basic advantage of the Kukhri lies in the weight-forward design of the blade. Someone smarter than me can describe the physics of why this works, but essentially the design allows for greater speed than a regular machete and thus a more effective transfer of energy from blade to target.

The Kukhri (or Kukri, I guess) is most commonly associated with the legendary Gurkha fighters of Nepal, although the design is neither attributable nor solely related to them. Though the Kukhri is an excellent field tool, it also makes a damn good weapon.

Still, I want a good tomahawk someday.

I can't help but think that the sight of someone advancing with an axe in hand would have much the same effect on someone's attitude that the sight of SXS shotgun would have. We've been conditioned by movies to fear the axe.

I think there is something too that. If someone advanced on me with a tomahawk or a kukhri, I would beat feet pretty quickly. Thinking about it, I would probably be more intimidated by either of those than a katana or something similar. Not that I have a preference about getting whacked by any of them, but I suspect that the Axe or the Kukhri would inspire more immediate fear in me.

Not as much as a tree-bucket though.

Nivek
July 9, 2008, 01:57 AM
Here's my choices...

The closest I have right now (S&W Micarta)
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/navy47/SWML.jpg

Future aquisitions (SOG Fusion "Battle Axe" and "Tactical Tomahawk" respectively)
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/navy47/fu99070.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/navy47/fu99069.jpg

p35
July 9, 2008, 06:21 PM
I have a couple of those double-bitted axes- here in former logging country they're common at garage sales and second hand stores. I've noticed that some just "fit" better than others- I like using the slightly shorter one a lot more than the long one. Lots of people assume that they're weapons- I keep one in the RV for firewood at camp and get some odd questions about why I have such a thing.

Reverend73
July 11, 2008, 12:54 PM
I have an RMJ forge Eagle Talon Tomahawk. I carry it hear in Afghanistan. I'll post pics in a bit. It took a little work to get in mounted in an accessible position but it turned out pretty good. Best battle axe made IMHO.

leadcounsel
July 11, 2008, 04:15 PM
Estwing makes a very versatile ax/hammer for around $30. I have one for camping. Great multipurpose tool for hammering tent stakes and cutting wood and defense.

Reverend73
July 12, 2008, 09:39 AM
Here's the pics I promised:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc111/machtig26/battleaxe001.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc111/machtig26/battleaxe002.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc111/machtig26/IMG_2891.jpg

wheelgunslinger
July 12, 2008, 09:45 AM
That's a really interesting mount point.
Nice.

DAVIDSDIVAD
July 12, 2008, 12:25 PM
That is really neat.

Do you put your packs on top of it, and keep the handle portruding?

Wolfman_556
July 12, 2008, 04:44 PM
I'm not urban, so here are my rural battle axes:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/Wahya/HPIM0271.jpg

Nikdfish
July 12, 2008, 06:22 PM
This one is pretty compact, but has a nice edge. It feels good in the hand...

http://www.skhowell.com/images/IMGP1057bweb.jpg

Nick

rbmcmjr
July 12, 2008, 10:01 PM
What are the dimensions on the Talon? I have Ryan's "Crash Axe":

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/rbmcmjr/rmjhawk.jpg
It is 18" from top to bottom and 6" from the hammer to the blade edge?

Reverend73
July 13, 2008, 12:30 AM
The talon has and 18" handle as well and I think from the tip of the spike to the axe blade is also 6"

I haven't worn a pack with it yet. I'm not infantry, I'm navy;) I'll have to try it with my assault pack though, usually all that crap stays in the MRAP or Humvee.

AmishFury
July 13, 2008, 01:44 PM
i keep an old hatchet i picked up at a rummage sale for 50cents in my truck... it was dull and rusty when i bought it but it sharpened up nicely

i don't think of it as an urban battle axe but should a situation pop up where i need to go viking on someone it would do the job

sm
July 13, 2008, 02:37 PM
I gotta garden hoe.
I "learnt" the fine art of "hoe-down" from grandma, and other mentors and elders.
I used to have various axes, hatches, and the like, but life is life and stuff happens.

Still, one Friday night, with a full moon, 3 youths were drunk/stoned, and trespassed onto property where a family BBQ was in progress. Just drove through a closed fence, and exited with inexpensive K Mart machetes.

Sobriety happens fast when good stiff hickory handle meets behind the knees, and the touch of a sharp garden hoe to ear draws blood.
Blood is interesting in the light of a full moon.
Youths don't like seeing their own blood...

Law shows up, and two of us just standing there with a garden hoe, others sorta grinning, with the youths lassoed and tied to fence posts.

"You coulda shot 'em" Deputy said.
"Nah, we just touched up garden hoes and shovels today, and needed to see if sharpened well enough".

I like a bit of reach with a stick, and a stick with a sharp hoe blade is pretty darn useful.
Just a garden hoe, honest!

CZ.22
July 13, 2008, 03:38 PM
Garden hoe- you know, I might actually prefer this to an ax.

I also like reach, but more importantly, hoes are more balanced. I prefer balanced things, more useful for both offense and defense, and more accurate.

Also, a longer, handle, enable someone to both hit with a blade, and handle, quaterstaff style.

The primary weapon of the Maldhari of India is a type of hoe/axe, called a kuwadi (or kudwadi, my memory might not be quite right). They use it for many things, including fending off lions in the Gir wildlife preserve. (look it up, there are lions there)

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