[skywalkrNCSU]

So I am getting ready to move out at the end of July and so my landlord comes by to drop off some paint and stuff for the guys moving in and she sees my reloading bench. I was not there when she came by so I didn't see her reaction but I get a call later and she had this kind of scared tone to her voice first asked me about the workbench and if I was taking it with me when I moved out (umm yes haha) and then she asks if reloading was against fire code. I told her that I did not think it was unless you had a certain amount of powder and primers, I wasn't totally sure but I know so many people who do it I didn't think it was an issue. So I tell her it is safe and all that good stuff and she seems okay with it.

Well this morning I get another call from her and she tells me, "I talked with a friend who is a police officer and he told me it is not safe to reload ammo in a confined setting like a townhouse" :scrutiny:

I wasn't really sure how to respond because I didn't want to come off as a jerk since I do want my deposit back when I move out and her son is one of my friends so I just tried to tell her how it wasn't dangerous, etc, etc. So then she just tells me that she does not want me to do anymore reloading while living there. To put her mind at ease I told her I wouldn't but I was still amazed that she was so scared of it.

Anyone else have a situation like this?

[Jeeper]

Since you are moving soon then who cares. If she gives you any more crap then send a simple letter asking her to respond in writing what city code you are breaking.

[skywalkrNCSU]

yeah I mean I don't really care because I am moving so soon, I am just glad that I didn't have everything set up months ago and she saw it then.

I didn't start this thread to complain really just wondering how others who have been in similar situations have handled it.

[steveno]

the cop doesn't know crap either

[Funderb]

no no no. Jeeper, that's a bit harsh.

You have to stand in her shoes.
She is concerned for her property, and your well being.
Considering she's the landlord, her property mostly, but that's life.

Find the code yourself, show her how you are within the parameters, and show her that the process is indeed safe. Make sure to have her come over in person.

Just because an LEO says so does not mean it is law.

Remember, take your time, don't get frustrated.

[wingman]

I've seen people "concerned" over my reloading bench I attribute it to media
madness with everything is scary tone.:banghead:

[skywalkrNCSU]

oh yeah and when she said the thing about the cop I really wanted to ask her if she thought all cops were complete guns and ammo experts but like I said it just wasn't worth it.

I would love to bring her over and show her how safe it is but unfortunately she lives a few states away (her son went to school here and so that is why she acquired the property).

[rodregier]

Lack of knowledge can make people fearful about all sorts of things...

Of course, we know how little official instruction is received by rank-and-file police officers about safe reloading practices and small-arms ammunition.

NFPA reference:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/nfpa.htm

Unless it's spelled out in your original lease agreement or local municipal code, they can't easily stop you. However, if you're planning on moving soon, probably not worth the arising conflict.

[Funderb]

just had to throw in the landlordian opinion there.
I know what you mean though.

Being a tenant is hard, because you have to deal with stupid landlords.
But so is being a landlord, you have to deal with stupid tenants!

[Old Fuff]

In some cities the fire codes cover storage and use of black powder, and that may part of the confusion here. I suggest that you check at a local station of the Fire Department, as they would know about any regulation - if there were any. Since the time is short I wouldn't to any reloading now - but I would check to see what the regulations really were, just out of my own interest.

[LongRider]

Ditto who cares you are moving, so let it slide. But as a point of education you give her a letter on your way out the door. Maybe ask her why she supports rapists criminals and terrorists by making it difficult for law abiding citizens from defending themselves or other against them.

[Seafarer12]

I would just keep doing what your doing since your moving out. If anything comes up I would check the lease and if there is nothing about reloading in it I would point that out.


Or if you want to be a smart a$$ ask her if you can still keep running your meth lab.

[scout26]

Don't pass up the opportunity to educate. Send her a copy of the NFPA and any local codes/ordinances involving reloading. IF there is nothign mentioned ask her to ask the cop which law you are violating.

Convert a fence sitter !!!

[no_problem]

You don't know if she will keep your deposit or how much she will keep.

If she keeps more than your fair share, I'd just take her to court. Leave the reloading stuff out since after you move, you will take the evidence with you.

[W.E.G.]

I told her that I did not think it was unless you had a certain amount of powder and primers, I wasn't totally sure but I know so many people who do it I didn't think it was an issue. So I tell her it is safe and all that good stuff

You need to have a more sure-of-yourself approach when dealing with the gun-shy.

If she keeps more than your fair share, I'd just take her to court. Leave the reloading stuff out since after you move, you will take the evidence with you.

uh.... what?

Leave the reloading supplies behind during the move, with the idea the landlord will leave them in place as evidence in some petty security-deposit lawsuit? :confused:

[freakshow10mm]

National Fire Protection Association Recommendations for Transport and Storage

It is not law, it's a recommendation.

[Frank Ettin]

It is her property. It may be that if you have a written lease, and it doesn't prohibit reloading or storage of flammable materials or anything similar, you're probably alright. But if your lease expires or if you are on a month-to-month tenancy, your landlord could condition your continued occupancy on your not reloading, among other possible remedies she might have.

She may be behaving irrationally, but it is her property.

[trickyasafox]

thats the problem- we turn to our LEOs for a lot of advice, and they cannot be experts in everything. frankly I'd just C-clamp my press to the bench and take it down between sessions.

[evan price]

There's a good reason why cops are not lawyers.

Personally, say yes'm, and keep doing what you're doing. If it is not in the lease, she can wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which fills up first. It's YOUR home while the lease is in force and if it is not specifically forbidden in the signed lease she can wish whatever she wants. If she tries to hold a deposit, that's what small claims court is for.

[454PB]

It's probably a waste of time and effort to educate her, and as was already said, it is her property.

I worry more about a 5 gallon gas container or a 20 pound bottle of propane than I do about my powder/primer stores.

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm just wondering how she knew what she was looking at was a reloading press.

[coloradokevin]

You need to have a more sure-of-yourself approach when dealing with the gun-shy.

I was thinking the same thing.

The correct answer to an "is it safe" question is:

"Absolutely! People have a huge misconception about smokeless powder... It is actually much safer to store than gasoline, or even other flameable liquids". (or some other answer like that)

Then stop worrying about it. If it isn't in the lease, isn't against your local fire code (I doubt it is), and doesn't harm her property, then she really can't do much about it.

[71Commander]

I'm just wondering how she knew what she was looking at was a reloading press.


I think that the bullets and brass might have been a give away.:neener:

Any-hoo. What was she doing in your apt unannounced? Unless it's an emergency, they have to give you advanced notice.

[jaholder1971]

Ignore the bat, you're moving anyway.

You have to stand in her shoes.
She is concerned for her property, and your well being.
Considering she's the landlord, her property mostly, but that's life.


Bovine Scatology.

Landlords surrender certain property rights upon entering into a lease with a tenant. If the landlord didn't specify this couldn't be done on her property then his reloading is fair game within the law.

As long as he pays the rent on time, keeps the place clean and doesn't break any fire code it's really none of her business.

I'm sooo sick of this "Landlords and property owners are God, kneel before them" crap splattered on this board at times.

[theotherwaldo]

It's funny that she gets all upset about reloading materials, but probably sees nothing wrong with an attached garage.

Engine fires are much more common than anything started by reloading supplies!

[mattk]

Your local Fire Station guys wont know the fire code either. Thats for the Fire inspectors and they will have to look it up.

[hill billy]

Do have a window that opens onto a public walkway or is easily seen into? I would put my reloading bench in the window and proceed to load a bunch of large rifle cartridges while wearing only a banana hammock. But that's just me.








If it's not in your lease, either educate her or ignore her, whatever you do, don't roll over for her.

[Mr White]

Has she ever told you she'd take care of something and then didn't?

Is reloading specifically prohibited by your lease?

The equipment and components are there. She isn't. You only have a month left. Load away to your heart's content. She can't just keep your deposit becase she feels like it.

As long as you satisfy the terms of the lease and have not damaged the apartment, she has no legal means to keep your deposit.

I've been through this kind of fight before, from both sides. A magistrate will make a judgement based on local codes and the lease document. period. Not on what the landlord asked you to do or not to do after the lease was signed.

[Hook686]

... which is why there is a hazmat fee associated with gun powder and primers. I think the cop was correct, reloading in a confined space is unsafe, but then so is a propane heater, stove, natural gas heater, range/oven, electric space heater, iron, electric lighting, ...

I can understand the landlord. I suspect she does not want the place to burn down and then find insurance will not cover it, and/or she has law suits for having such an operation taking place on her property.

Perhaps she thinks of reloading as working with an explosive. Gun powder is not an explosive. I think gunpowder certainly adds to a burning situation though, and in the 'right' combination of closed space, air, and powder what appears as an explosion takes place. I do not even think a 'Ka-boom' is really an explosion.

as much a pain as it is to move, I support the property owner's right to not go alone with reloading on the property. Too bad the cop opened his/her mouth. But I suspect the landlord was looking for a supporting answer such as that. I see no reason to 'counterstrike' as seems to me to be suggested by some posts. The landlord does not like gunpowder/primers stored on the property, so be it. Why battle her ? Life is too short to adopt an attitude of, "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm smart, you're stupid; I'm strong, you're weak ..." Enjoy the journey, even if that means you gotta move.

Good luck in your new place.

[hill billy]

I support the property owner's right to not go alone with reloading on the property. So you support the landlord making up the rules as she goes along? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If it's not spelled out, she's going to have a hard time enforcing it, whether the op is moving out next month or next year. Parenthetically, most landlords/property managers are twits and treat the general public poorly. I have sat in court three times to retrieve security deposits(not for myself) that were ultimately rewarded along with heavy penalties (compared to the original amount) because most of these people treat tenants poorly and think they are dumb. Most of the time they get away with it. HAving said that, I'm sure they have their share of whacked out tenants to deal with as well.

[SR_]

Because this involves a friendship and you are close to the end of your lease, I think you did the correct thing. But, if you want to leave her a note, here's a suggestion:

Dear Mrs. X

Out of respect for you I did honor your request and my promise to not reload ammunition after xyz date.

However, I did not want to leave with you thinking that I did anything to endanger other tenants or your property. Consider:

> There are published safety guidelines for storing powder and primers in a residence - I did not exceed these guidelines,

> Reloading in a residence does not increase home owner's insurance rates (insurance companies do not see it as a problem),

> City codes/ordinances do not restrict reloading in a residence (because it not a problem),

> Fire codes do not prohibit reloading in a residence (because it is not a problem). One is not even required to advise the fire department that they have powder or primers.

The person you spoke with provided information that was obviously troubling to you. Please understand that the information that person provided is simply not accurate.

I value the friendship with [son's name] and would not want you thinking I did something inappropriate while a tenant of your property.

[Cosmoline]

Unless it's in the lease or against local law to reload the landlord has no right to add new terms and restrictions.

When you rent a place, it's YOUR PLACE. You have full possessory rights including the right to quiet enjoyment. A lot of landlords don't seem to comprehend this. They take your money but still believe you're staying at "their" property. Well it's not their property while you're a paying tenant. They merely hold legal title, and have sold possessory rights. So they can go soak head. It's none of the landlord's business unless you're breaking the law. And I know of no law against small scale reloading on residential premises.

[Cosmoline]

and in the 'right' combination of closed space, air, and powder what appears as an explosion takes place

Where the heck did you get that idea? If you're actually arguing that powder will spontaneously combust, I suggest you do some more research on the matter. This is ignorant fear mongering.

[Husker1911]

How many dozen times more dangerous is a turkey-fryer, or either propane or charcoal grill? Does she forbid their use, too?

That being said, I too, many years ago, had a landlord that freaked when he saw my reloading bench. I moved shortly after.

[gloriavoxdei]

I am a deputy sheriff and I can honestly say that most of the guys in my SO are completely CLUELESS on firearm laws. We are a shall issue state and I've heard guys say that permits are at the discression of the Sheriff!!! Needless to say, don't just go by what some lady says her cop friend said (she probably never talked to one of us anyway, I hear that one alot) and just look up the laws and ordinances. If it becomes a real issue than talk to your fire martial and the ATF office for your district, they will know more that a local about those particular laws. Local LE doesn't enfore those laws much anyway so there's no reason for the cop to have that knowledge. Be courties and educate, it's a great oppertunity to make all us reloaders and gun owners look good if you do it right :)

[ilbob]

the cop doesn't know crap eitherNot sure why anyone would think the average cop was an expert on anything, except copping.

[Matt-J2]

Seems to me the lady made a request, and you agreed to it. Not much to do about that, except view this as a way to ensure all the equipment gets packed nice and secure without having to rush at the last minute.

[Griz44]

I live in a major metropolitan area. I recently applied for an FFL to sell out of my home. With all FFL applications, an ATF agent comes to the premise, inspects the facility and does training for you in the paperwork and laws. I spent over 2 hours with the agent at my home, and she (yes she) inspected my safe, my locker, and my home for compliance, including my reloading room. The ATF has no issues with a residential reloading operation, even when a casting operation is also present. The only comment made was IF primer counts were larger than 10K, they need to be separated by 1" of wood or put in different locations. I also had to get a city occupancy permit for my business, which the city approved with all these same facts being presented. It is not a legal issue, simply a misinformed landlord. I would suggest that if you want to keep your friend, and avoid a possible black mark on your rental rating, that you honor your agreement. You are fully in the right to do as your wish, but is it worth the price you may pay for a month? Sometimes, a little give gets a lot of gain later.
So before the hawks tear into it, it is just my .02 worth, and it is just a opinion...

[Otto]

Landlord won't let me reload

If you're renting in Texas and signed the standard Texas Apartment Association lease , "bringing hazardous materials into the apartment community" is indeed prohibited.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

One thing I do suggest you do is once your stuff is moved out, make sure and take the time and effort to take pictures of how the place was cleaned up and ready for reestablishment. Also, know the laws of your state on what you are required to do to move out and what isn't required. Don't believe the landlord or office clerks. Know your rights by checking with a lawyer.

Once you've moved, demand your deposit back and insist on it. If they don't return it, take them to court and show the judge the photographs you took when you moved. Judges know landlords are often bad about not returning deposits and generally will side with the tenant in such matters.

FYI,

Dave

[earplug]

Fight it, you have nothing to lose, but the next person that moves in will be effected by her uneducated bias.
You reloading is safer then hair spray, spray paint, smoking, frying food and many forms of recreation.

[Deavis]

Unless it's spelled out in your original lease agreement or local municipal code, they can't easily stop you.

Funny how many people advise against the landlord's request on a forum where private property is considered hallowed ground. Turn the situation around and consider it for a second. It is her property and she can do as she wishes within the framework of the lease contract. Further, most leases have all sorts of clauses in them that she might be able to use against you. You are almost always at a disadvantage as the leasee when under sn industry standard contract, do not forget that. I recommend you take a step back and consider your options carefully, read your lease very thoroughly, and then decide if going against her is in your best interests. document everything.

[RugerSAFan]

I never had an issue, but I also made sure that the RCBS 2000 was covered and components were put away before announced entry by property management personnel (i.e. scheduled air filter changes). I did the same for the cleaning lady.

I just moved into a "new" older home. I won't set-up my reloading area until block windows are installed in the basement windows. I don't want nosy neighbors looking in. While I don't need folks permission to reload, no reason to flaunt it either. Especially those that don't understand.

I already took my son to task for mentioning to neighbor that the cellar was going to be a gun room....

[highlander 5]

When i bought my 2 family the tenants were the ones concerned about my reloading "habit". I explained that the "gunpowder" I use is safer than common gasoline. Most people have watched to many western where the bad guy uses "gun powder" to blow up the train trestle,the family ranch ect.

[Bush Pilot]

You could argue with the landlord until you're blue in the face and never win. Why not load up enough ammo to get you by until you've moved and have your press set up at the new location and move on with your life? This doesn't sound like a battle worth waging for 3 weeks of reloading, besides, you'll be busy packing and too busy to reload anyway.

[Cosmoline]

It is her property and she can do as she wishes within the framework of the lease contract.

The tenant also has property rights. She cannot interfere with quiet enjoyment beyond the confines of the lease or law. Some of them don't seem to understand that they cannot take money from a tenant then treat them as some form of serf. It doesn't work like that.

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm guessing a lot of these answers were give without reading all the posts. (or even the OP's posts)

1. He's moving.

2. He's good friends with the son of the landlord and doesn't want to trash that friendship.

3. He wants to get his security deposit back without a hassle.
(Did I mention he's friends with the son?)

4. He said the landlord lives far away so even if he did reload she would never know.
(did I mention he was moving anyway?)

I really don't see a problem here other than some woman is misinformed about reloading and ammo. (imagine that!) If he were staying the situation would be totally different but why rock the boat with a friend's family if you are already moving? The post above by "SR_" is a good one. In it he suggests informing her of the facts without rocking the boat by telling he he will reload anyway. Sounds all good to me...

[Hook686]

KEY WORDS hill billy, 'If it's not spelled out, ' You know for a fact it is not?

I suspect even a general clause prohibiting anything destructive, illegal, and/or hazardous would cover reloading. However I do not have the wisdom of the alleged contract to look at.

How the hell you went from "Originally Posted by hook686
I support the property owner's right to not go alone with reloading on the property.



to

So you support the landlord making up the rules as she goes along?


Would you care to explain this ?

[Hook686]

Yesterday, 11:10 AM #33
Cosmoline
Senior Member



Join Date: 12-28-02
Location: Raggedy Edge of the Verse
Posts: 14,462

Quote:
and in the 'right' combination of closed space, air, and powder what appears as an explosion takes place

Where the heck did you get that idea? If you're actually arguing that powder will spontaneously combust, I suggest you do some more research on the matter. This is ignorant fear mongering.
__________________



Boy do you enjoy leaping off the edge ?

With 14,000+ posts I assume you are informed enough to reasize that the ignition takes a souce of ignition. Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...

I saw no reason to explain that which seemed self evident. Why did you deem this 'ignorant fear' ?

[kingpin008]

Any-hoo. What was she doing in your apt unannounced? Unless it's an emergency, they have to give you advanced notice.

Wrong. At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.
------------------------

Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...

Hook - First, primers don't spontaneously combust. It just doesn't happen. They're detonated by shock force, not heat. So that's right out. As far as your other examples (gas flames, electric igniters, open flames) well, those risks are present in ANY home or apartment, regardless of whether or not the tenant owns or uses reloading gear, so I fail to see the connection. And further - the ownership and use of reloading gear or components would in no way make any of those possible ignition sources any more risky - if they're going to start a fire, they're going to start a fire. Yes, smokeless powder does burn, and a lot of it will burn, well, a lot. But so will cleaning products under the sink, hairspray and perfumes in the bathroom and bedroom, and pretty much anything else you'd find in an average household. So I think what Cosmoline meant by "fearmongering", was that you seem to be misinformed about the dangers of certain reloading components, and by presenting them as fact, you were providing essentially false information that could scare people away from reloading.

[Ian Sean]

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.

That being said, I wouldn't have any issues with a tenant reloading.

Basically your up the creek now, you told her you wouldn't, so to stay on the straight and narrow, pack up your gear and wait till you move. She has it in her head now that it is dangerous..........thank your lucky stars that it happened now and not when you first moved in.

At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.


In my agreements...I give 24 hours notice for a routine inspection, with the exception of emergencies such as electric, water, furnace, fuel etc...

[Cosmoline]

At least in my state (and I suspect at least a few others) landlords have the legal right to enter unannounced into any property that they own, whether it's currently being rented or not, for a number of reasons - including suspected property damage, tenants who have been reported using the premises for illegal activity, and so forth.

You should check your code and give us the citation. Most states follow the URLTA or a varation, which limits access to "emergencies" or if adequate notice is given. Besides, a landlord barging in at 3 AM is going to have no heart or lungs.

[Cosmoline]

Obviously, to me anyweay, the primers present offer that, in addition to other plausible souces such as gas flames, electric igniters, open flames ...

I saw no reason to explain that which seemed self evident. Why did you deem this 'ignorant fear' ?

I'm sorry to jump on you but that sort of "hazardous" rhetoric is very popular among the antis. If something is "hazardous," that is an opportunity for government to regulate the bejesus out of it. It's easy to see how they can craft a back door attack on gun rights. If powder and primers are "hazardous," then surely ammo is hazardous so you should have to have a federal license to store more than 100 rounds, etc. etc. We have to be careful about the terms we use here, as we are being watched.

You cite primers in your latest post, but primers do not just go off. They require a precise impact. You can have powder and primers stored in their factory containers in an enclosed space without creating a dangerous situation. Moreover as you know, smokeless powder in factory containers does not "explode" even if someone is nutty enough to open the container and drop a lit rag inside. It's less of a fire hazard than a big tub of vegetable oil near the stove. And MUCH less than a turkey fryer.

Handloading is not a "hazard." It's considerably LESS dangerous than typical automotive work. Oily rags and gasoline are a good deal more dangerous and actually can spontaneously combust in the right circumstances. Woodworking can create extremely dangerous clouds of fines which will go off like a bomb, believe it or not. Unless you are a complete loon and do it over a lit stove or something, handloading is a SAFE activity, not a hazard. I am not creating a hazard by doing it, anymore than I'm creating a hazard by having firearms on the premises.

[dalepres]

It is her property. It may be that if you have a written lease, and it doesn't prohibit reloading or storage of flammable materials or anything similar, you're probably alright. But if your lease expires or if you are on a month-to-month tenancy, your landlord could condition your continued occupancy on your not reloading, among other possible remedies she might have.

She may be behaving irrationally, but it is her property.

And it's his home. What if she says he can't own a handgun there? It's her property.

If what he is doing is legal and safe - according to code and regulations, not her or an anonymous cop's opinion - then he can do what he wants in his home.

[dalepres]

By the way; paint is hazardous as well. What in the world was she doing storing it in the OP's home?

[KINGMAX]

Who's liability insurance is going to write the check if something happens.

[SR_]

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.


Having gone to court supporting my father (a landlord) I can pretty much say, with great certainty, that the clause you're talking about will be read by the judge anyway he/she wants to read it - not necessarily the way you want to read it.

[ArchAngelCD]

Who's liability insurance is going to write the check if something happens.
You're kidding, right? After all the examples given in this thread for things in the home that are actually hazardous you actually asked that question?

Please take a note,
-Smokeless Powder DOES NOT explode.
-Primers won't go bang unless that are struck in the proper place with sufficient force.
-Since there is nothing illegal about reloading and it's no more hazardous than most things in the home there will be no problems with the Insurance companies on the outside chance something did go wrong.

[Hook686]

Reloading Safety



Part of the responsibility of being a reloader includes the safe handling, storage and use of gun powder. It is vital that you practice all the recommended precautions before, during and after the use of our products. Below are links to some of the methods we advise you follow when handling gun powder.



General Safety Guidelines
Important Safety and Health Precautions


To perform in a gun, powders must ignite easily and burn rapidly. These characteristics require use of common sense to avoid accidents.

YOU MUST OBSERVE THESE PRECAUTIONS:

DO NOT smoke when reloading.
DO NOT use spark-producing tools.
DO NOT mix powders of different kinds.
DO NOT leave powder where children can get it.
DO NOT try to load when distracted.
Avoid an open fire or working near spark-producing machinery.
Pour out only the amount of powder needed for immediate work.
Check the powder measure each time it is used. Make sure the settings have not been accidentally changed. Check-weigh "thrown charges" frequently.
Clean up any spilled powders. Use a brush and dustpan; do not use a vacuum cleaner. Dispose of spilled powder as described in the SAAMI pages of this Guide.
Store powder only in its original container, which was carefully designed for this usage. DO NOT REPACKAGE. Do not purchase or accept any Alliant powder not in its original, FACTORY-SEALED container.
Be sure the powder container is completely empty before discarding. Do not use the container to store other powders or materials, or for any other purpose.
Always keep in mind that smokeless powder is an explosive material and highly flammable. It should always be stored and handled in such a way as to avoid impact, friction, heat, sparks, or flame.
Wear safety glasses when reloading.
This material contains nitroglycerin. Inhalation, skin contact, or ingestion may cause severe headache, nausea, and lowering of bloodpressure.


Alliant warns me that the powders I reload with is a hazard. I do not think I am 'fearmongering' by simply pointing out what the manufacturer warns about. Wanting to believe it is not a hazard does not make it so. Be careful with it ... and that includes the thought to not store very large quantities in your home and store primers separate from the powder among others.

One can argue that it is no more more hazardous than x,y,z, or not explosive like x,y,z, but the manufacturer lists it as an explosive material containing nitroglycerin. Argue the degree to your hearts content ... sort of what lawyers do in court ... but it is an explosive material and thus hazardous.


http://www.alliantpowder.com/safety/reloading_safety.htm

From CCI:


Primer Storage and Safety

Modern primers, with proper storage, have incredibly long shelf life (in spite of rumors to the contrary that ran amuck in 1993-4). For storage and safety, primers must be left in their original packaging. Find an area with low humidity and reasonably constant temperature. High humidity combined with big temperature swings can degrade primer performance. Any dehumidifying equipment must be flameless to avoid accidents. Check for local regulations regarding the quantity of primers that can be stored in a residence and adhere to those regulations.
Modern primer packaging is designed to protect primers from mass detonation in the event they are in a fire or the package is dropped. In a fire, current packaging design results in a series of small "pops" as individual primers cook off.
Never store primers near exposed flame or sources of static electricity. Never smoke while handloading.
Never store primers in a tightly closed metal container like a ammo can. To do so is to risk a devastating explosion complete with deadly metal fragments from the can. Such confinement can make the discharge of one or two primers instantaneously progress to a high-order event, involving all primers in the can.
Never store primers in bulk, that is, removed from their factory packaging and placed in another container. When loading, dump out only ten to twenty primers at a time. When the session is over, return all primers to their original containers before putting them away.
If you use primers tubes for automated feeding, keep tubes clean and oil-free. Clean dirty tubes under water and dry thoroughly before returning them to service. Do not store primers in tubes; return them to the original packaging at the end of the loading session. Take care to avoid dropping loaded tubes. Never alter a tube, or use a tube not designed for your loader.
Primers are best stored in a vented wooden box or cabinet with a loosely attached door or lid. This allows the pressure to vent in the case of fire or a few primers detonating in the container. Wood acts as insulation to slow the transmission of heat to the primers.
Mark primer packages with the date of purchase and use them in the order received. This rotates your stock so no box is forgotten.
All reloading components, including primers, must be stored away from access by children or persons with impaired judgment.
Always wash your hands thoroughly after handing ammunition or ammunition components.
Above all, apply a healthy dose of common sense to primer handling, as well as all your handloading activities.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/safety/primer_safety.aspx

Dropping a package of primers seems to pose a risk per the manufacturer.

Stay safe.

[TexasSkyhawk]

It is her property and she can do as she wishes within the framework of the lease contract.

Landlord here..........my house ...my rules...

My rental agreement has a clause that pretty much can be construed to mean ANYTHING I want it to...haven't had to use it, I have had good tenants and I try to be a good landlord.

So, I guess I'll rewrite the contract on our rent house to state "No blacks, no whites, no hispanics--only mixed breed tenants and guests allowed."

And then I might toss in something like "No macaroni and cheese may be cooked in the property" since tenants invariably always get a little in the dishwasher and it tends to stain the dishwasher. . .

"Only 40 watt lightbulbs may be used in order to prevent overheating of light fixtures and thus helping prevent a housefire."

"Curtains must be closed at all times so as not to encourage potential burglars from snooping, and thus possibly causing damage to the property by breaking and entering."

Hey, my property, my rules.

Right?

:rolleyes:

Some folks need to become familiar with the Fair Housing Act (and basically the only "landlord" that can discriminate against you or unduly control what you can/can't do is the author of the Fair Housing Act--the U.S. Government itself).

Jeff

[Matt-J2]

I'd like to point out that a lot of the more hazardous items mentioned here aren't allowed in many apt buildings. Turkey fryers, gas/charcoal grills, gasoline/propane/kerosene, lit cigarettes, lit candles, etc.

[Ian Sean]

TexasSkyhawk, besides you,who said anything about discrimination against a tenant? Or violating the Fair Housing Act?

I have in my rental agreements certain stipulations on prohibited activities in MY property.....and I must give the tenant a 24 hour notification for routine property inspection with the exception of emergencies for MY property.

One of the prohibited activities for instance is "not conduct a business enterprise or commercial activities on the premises".

My general clause for "other activities or tenant restrictions not specifically defined" is basicallly a CYA statement if I get a real problem tenant that needs to be evicted.

What is wrong with that?

Lighten up Francis.

[jackdanson]

Because this involves a friendship and you are close to the end of your lease, I think you did the correct thing. But, if you want to leave her a note, here's a suggestion:

+1 that would be the classy way to go.

[Cosmoline]

Alliant warns me that the powders I reload with is a hazard.

It warns you not to eat it or cook with it, and to to pay attention when you use it. That does not make handloading a hazardous activity. It is NOT hazardous unless you're an idiot and smoke while you're doing it. Or leave it where kids could play with it. The same could be said about many household products, but unless misused none of these are hazardous. It's not hazardous to clean my floor with clorox based chemicals, it's only hazardous if I'm letting kids eat them or bathe with them. You see the difference? Nearly everything in the modern world is potentially dangerous and has umpteen safety warnings, but that doesn't mean the proper use of these things constitutes a hazard. Everything has a warning on it.

Simply put, handloading would only be a hazard if you were violating very basic and common-sense safety rules while doing it. If you store your powder in factory containers and pay attention to your loads it is not hazardous. When I handload I am not posing a hazard to other people in the building. To suggest otherwise is offensive fear mongering.

[Geno]

What the heck were reloading, depth-charges?! :rolleyes: I can't see much else being "dangerous". Sounds more like fear of the unknown. In nearly 24 years of reloading, I have had zero mishaps, and only one primer ever went "pop". That sounds pretty safe to me. :)

[TexasSkyhawk]

My general clause for "other activities or tenant restrictions not specifically defined" is basicallly a CYA statement if I get a real problem tenant that needs to be evicted.

What is wrong with that?

Because in almost inumberable instances, your general clause is not only non-enforceable, but could also subject you to civil rights violations--something our sue-happy Feds are more than happy to pursue against heavy-handed landlords.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings over this. I rent out a house and I've had some real losers as tenants. I've also had some ideal tenants. I feel that as the property owner, I should be able to call most, if not all of the shots when it comes to how I want my property treated and utilized.

However, the Law--and piles upon piles of precedent and case studies--says otherwise.

Jeff

[dalepres]

I think you're right, hook686. Reloading is hazardous and it should be banned. Thanks for clearing that up.

[TexasSkyhawk]

Dropping a package of primers seems to pose a risk per the manufacturer.

So does cleaning the toilet, per the manufacturer of Scrubbing Bubbles (Dow Chemicals).

As well as cleaning the overn, per the manufacturer of Easy-Off.

As well as spraying for cockroaches (which for some reason landlords never seem to want to do), per the manufacturer of Raid.

As well as drying your hair with a hair dryer anywhere there is water or a source of water nearby.

Somehow, we've all managed to navigate the hazards and pitfalls of such behavior up to this point.

Must be because of all the attorney-inspired warnings from the manufacturers. :)

Jeff

[Frank Ettin]

As far as reloading being hazardous, a lot depends. For instance how careful you are in general? There also the question of how much propellant and primers you may have on hand. A couple of pounds of powder and a couple of thousand primers is one thing. And then there are the competition trap shooters I know who may keep 10 to 20 pounds of powder and 10,000 primers around.

And yes, reloading may be a very safe activity when you follow the rules and are careful. But how does your landlord know how careful you are? Is the landlord supposed to assess how safe you are and monitor your adherence to proper safety procedure?

Propellant and primers are very flammable. A large quantity on hand could turn a small fire started in other ways into a major conflagration.

The landlord has invested his (or her) money to buy and maintain the property he rents to you. Yes you rent it as your home, but he's the one who put up the money and incurred the debt to buy it. It's his skin in the game -- not yours. You just pay the rent each month and, perhaps, minor maintenance, if that. You expect the landlord to keep paying his mortgage and taxes and to be responsible for major maintenance. As a tenant, you have no capital investment on the line.

True, many types of restrictive condition are now illegal in leases. But I sympathize with a landlord that wishes to exercise what controls are permitted by law and the applicable lease to protect his property and investment. Of course, if he hasn't properly protected himself in the lease, you're probably free until the landlord corrects that oversight.

If you want the greatest freedom, save your pennies and buy your own house. If you can't afford a house where you now live, move to somewhere you can afford to buy. Life is largely a matter of trade offs. If you really want to live in a particular place and can't afford to buy a house there, the trade off is that you must rent and accept certain restraints imposed by the person who actual owns the property you rent.

[BEARMAN]

You did the right thing ,to make sure you get your deposit back and also not mess up a freindship with her son. . But how did she store and secure the paint and thinners that she brought over for the next tenent. Depending on how and where it is stored, you may be in danger (just a possibility). Paint , thinners and rags are maybe more dangerous than smokeless powder and primers.

[Hook686]

Yesterday, 09:31 PM #67
dalepres wrote:

I think you're right, hook686. Reloading is hazardous and it should be banned. Thanks for clearing that up.


I'm really not sure how much you think, or how well you think dalepres, for at no point did I promote the banning of reloading. In fact I noted that I reload. However I do not think I am brain dead ... Alliant points out that the powder I reload with contains nitroglycerin. I do not consider this a minor point and exercise appropriate caution, for I most certainly do consider nitroglycerin (as in dynamite) a hazard, I'm surprised you do not.

A bunch of folks seem to think that having other hazardous products in their a rental unit somehow justifies having gunpowder and primers in that rental unit. Each person is certainly free to think in any manner they choose ... unless of course one happens to be the landlord ... then all sorts of legal codes and standards are sputtered. I'm sure glad none of you were ever my landlord.

[Ian Sean]

I'm sure glad none of you were ever my landlord

I stated earlier...I am a landlord....and as a reloader myself I would have no problem with reloading activity in my property.

Unfortunately the thread kind of went of topic a bit discussing landlords and tenants rights and what not.

I rent out a house and I've had some real losers as tenants. I've also had some ideal tenants..

I have been blessed myself....I have real good tenants and I do my damndest to be a good landlord.

[syh]

In regards to the post about nitroglycerin, the warning seems to be addressing the medicinal qualities of it, not the "go boom" qualities.

"Inhalation, skin contact, or ingestion may cause severe headache, nausea, and lowering of bloodpressure."

Certainly you've heard of nitro used as a cardiac medication, which lowers blood pressure, sometimes causing headaches and nausea.

The other danger from containing nitro are listed in the other warnings above.