I'm done with "high and left"


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Bayou Runner
July 6, 2008, 08:32 PM
I recently read somewhere on this forum that lite loads lob the ball out of a barrel like my pie-eater 1860 Army. That the recoil raises the barrel early enough to throw the shot off cause the ball ain't movin down the bore fast enough. Well, I got a chance to check that out today. Wish I'd a done this sooner! I set my flask to throw 35 gr. equiv. of Pyrodex P and loaded up. Then loaded up again, again and again. I had a ball, hit where I aimed and like I said earlier, "I'm done with high and left. You see, for years been shootin in the 23 to 25 gr. range and figured I just missed (a lot sometimes). Also read about shootin where you want it to hit knowin it shoots high and left, low and right or whatever. Not being much on an imaginary bullseye, I've never even tried to get the hang of this. After today, with the heavier loads I have a new respect spelled love for my Army. Not only did it run beautiful, but with more authority also. Didn't mean to go on sooo long, just wanted to share my good fortune.
P.S. I also read that the chambers will hold 40grs. ea. Hmmm!

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Voodoochile
July 6, 2008, 09:58 PM
Good shootin bud & glad you had a Blast.
No pun intended.

I've never put more than 35gr. FFFG into my 1860 so I can not accurately stae yes or no on the claims of it holding 40gr. but I do know that mine after loaded may take a few more grains but never tried.

I just found that my Pietta 58' NMA with 5.5" barrel shoots high & slightly left when I have a wad under the ball but shoots near POA but just a tad low without the wad, go figure.

Smokin_Gun
July 6, 2008, 11:14 PM
I'd like to see 40gr of Holy Black in an 1860 Colt.....with a ball on it and clear the forcing cone:rolleyes: An 1860 Pietta I got here only holds 35gr max. The only Colts that hold 40gr of BP are the Walker, Whitneyville, 1st, 2nd , 3rd model Dragoons. I like shootin' the 1860 with 35gr...does straighten out that ball don't it?:what:

SG

robert garner
July 8, 2008, 08:56 AM
Now that you've had one eye opened go 'head an open the other!
When you find where your printing Hitting at 100 yrds is fun !
robert

Bayou Runner
July 8, 2008, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. Smokin,I don't know how much more it'll hold, but like Voodoochile's, there's a little room left over after the ball is seated. We're talking 4 more grs of Pyrodex P to get to the big 40. I looked for what I had read on this (sixguns.com/range/CBSIXGUNS2.htm) pages 5 and 6 of 8 and found the article was speaking of an EMF 1860 Colt and a Navy Arms 1860 Colt. DGW's catalog says Navy Arms are mfg. by Pietta. Maybe I got one of these cylinders! Hopefully, the three I got are these. Don't know about printing at 100yds. Heck, I can't see that far where I shoot. Plenty trees and brush. If it was clear, I still couldn't see that far. Old eyes! Can work 25 to 30yds. though and plan on pointing with both eyes open till I get it right. Just a little something else to look forward to. Lord willing, I'll be making smoke in my woods Saturday.

Sagetown
July 8, 2008, 09:30 PM
robert garner quote: When you find where your printing Hitting at 100 yrds is fun !

I don't doubt the 1860 Army (PIETTA) will do every bit of that and more. A few years back I did some long distant shooting, just to see how far it would shoot in a straight line. The dirt field was several hundred yards long, and a few hundred yards wide at a gradual incline. At 75 to 100 yards they kicked up plenty of dust so you could tell if it dropped. But to my surprise that ole cap-n-ball revolver didn't show any sign of dropping at those distances.:eek:

Bayou Runner
July 9, 2008, 07:29 AM
Sage, That's good to hear. Wasn't the 1860 designed (sights set for) 75+ yds.? I don't know what I'd roll over at that distance, but it's good to know I could if need be. And I thought I was the only one who did some things just to see what the results would be....at least that's what my wife tells me!

kBob
July 9, 2008, 08:13 AM
Having a vapor lock as to who, but a Confederate General was killed during the War of Northern Aggression by a former sharp shooter using an 1860 Colt Revolver at a bit over 200 yards.

There was an article about it in one of the big name American Civil War magazines within the past year or two.

Don't recall whether the bullet was round ball or conical.

If I made such a shot my buddies would all scream "OP! SLOP! BRING THE MOP! YOU LUCKY DOG!"

-Bob Hollingsworth

DrLaw
July 9, 2008, 09:31 AM
Every now and then somebody comes up with something here that sticks with me until I try it. Kind of like that proverbial song you hear and cannot get out of your head. :banghead:

Dang you cursed mind-meddlers. Now I will have this thread running in my head until I can get out to shoot, which looks like it will have to be tonight! :D

The Doc is out now. :cool:

kBob
July 9, 2008, 06:26 PM
OK its official, my mind is going. The CSA General shot with a Colt 1860 from over 200 yards was Stuart The Knight, James Ewell Brown “Jeb” Stuart. Please don’t force me to move north.

The shot took place on May 11, 1864 in the Yellow Tavern fight.

The shot was made by John A. Huff a then private of the 5th Michigan Cavalry. He had won an award as best shot in the 1st US Sharpshooters earlier in the war.

Huff died on May 28, 1864 of wounds received at Haw’s Shop, Virginia.

A Confederate Surgeon questioned the validity of the claim that a 1860 Colt Army was used saying he believed the bullet to have come from a carbine. This may be because the bullet was a conical rather than a ball.

Some of this was gleaned from “Who Was Who in the Civil War” edited by John S. Bowman (2001 reprint) World Publications Group, Inc.

The rest from hazy recollections of articles in magazines over the years.

-Bob Hollingsworth

KiltedClaymore
July 9, 2008, 08:36 PM
Really now?! i just learned something! i knew he was shot with a pistol, but i was always under the impression that he was shot at close range! lucky shot...i still think southern boys shoot better though. :evil:

arcticap
July 9, 2008, 09:35 PM
It was exciting to read about the battle and Pvt. Huff's shot, but the actual distance seems to be...unknown. :)

Below is the text from a park brochure on the Battle of Yellow Tavern (May 11, 1864) including a summary of the battle.....


...As the Federals withdrew, Private John A. Huff of the 5th Michigan Cavalry hurriedly fired his pistol into a group of mounted Confederates by the Telegraph Road. J.E.B. Stuart clutched his side. His head dipped and the general's plumed hat fell in the dust. he calmly whispered, "I am shot." A trooper supported Stuart while another led his horse to the rear....

http://www.nps.gov/frsp/yellow.htm





From Wikipedia:
...As the 5th Michigan Cavalry streamed in retreat past Stuart, a dismounted Union private, 48-year-old John A. Huff, a former sharpshooter, turned and shot Stuart with his .44-caliber pistol, from a distance of 10-30 yards.[2]...

[2] ^ Smith, p. 242; Salmon, p. 283; Starr, p. 107; Thomas, p. 292; Edward G. Longacre, writing in a June 2004 Civil War Times article, claims that Huff's shot was from 400 yards (370 m) away, an arguably impressive feat with a pistol; in his book, Lincoln's Cavalrymen (p. 268), Longacre states that Huff was able to advance "close enough" to Stuart to shoot him in the abdomen, although he was not aware at the time that his victim was Stuart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yellow_Tavern

Bayou Runner
July 9, 2008, 09:50 PM
Thanks gentlemen for the additional 1860 Army History. Can't read or learn too much about something so favored, although I'm gonna have to figure out how to see a bit farther. It's a combo of old eyes and glasses. Ya'll's (that's plural possessive for ya'll) contribution will be printed and added in my binder. Saturday should be a rather smokey day around this part of south Louisiana. Smokin, I just finished seatin 6 balls over wads that are over 40 gr. equiv. Pyrodex P. A tad more effort than the norm and the forcing cone was cleared. When I say a tad I mean a tad cause I always seat the balls on the firm side. Nothing crushed, just compressed! Read that Taffin article again and just had to find out for sure. Next step should be a blast...pun intended. One thing I failed to mention and this comes from the FWIW column. Last Saturday morning when in the patch of woods I use, the skeeters were really hungry till I made some smoke. While there was smoke in the air, there was no problem with them pesky little buggers. Now, to wait till this Saturday....

Niner
July 9, 2008, 09:52 PM
A hit that takes out General Jeb Stuart at over 200 yards with an 1860 Colt? If it happened that way the aim must have been about like the elevation on a howitzer at 5000 meters.

I'm with the doctor

A Confederate Surgeon questioned the validity of the claim that a 1860 Colt Army was used saying he believed the bullet to have come from a carbine. This may be because the bullet was a conical rather than a ball.


I can agree that more or less powder at pistol ranges may work in individual guns for individual shooters. For me less than max loads work better.

AdmiralB
July 10, 2008, 10:38 AM
There are a lot of conflicting accounts. I've read 200 yards, 400 yards...but most indicate a distance of more like 30 feet.

The fact that it was a 44 cal revolver seems agreed, however.

kBob
July 10, 2008, 12:36 PM
Actually I have less trouble believing the 200 yard accounts than the 30 as I find it difficult to believe that Stuart would have been that close to retreating union troops or close enough that Huff could slip up that close un noticed.

I also have difficulty that Huff could have escaped from 30 yards or less with out being shot down by members of the escort after having shot one of the most belovied of CSA commanders in front of some of the most experiences and sfficient cavalrymen of the age.

While I joke about slop and luck Huff was a good shot. I have used my 1911 style auto with 200 grain .45 SWC to plink out to 200 yards. I suspect that load is much like a 180-190 grain conical out of a .44 M1860. If Huff was simply shooting amongst them I don't doubt he tried for the group nor that Stuart was unlucky that day.

My doubt was that Huff made a single shot at a lone horseman and hit him basically Center of mass intentionally at that range.

-Bob Hollingsworth

AdmiralB
July 10, 2008, 12:56 PM
Apparently Stuart was leading, or at least encouraging, a charge and was shot by a retreating Union soldier (Huff).

The short distance is relatively well-documented in print.

There is also anectodal suggestion that the pistol was in fact a Remington, won by Huff in a shooting contest.

Sagetown
July 10, 2008, 04:52 PM
:)Niner; if you ever get a chance to do some long range shooting with one of these 1860 Army's, you're going to be amazed at the power and zip these black powder revolvers have. It is one more pleasant experience for sure.

robert garner posted - - Hitting at 100 yrds is fun !
:D I believe he's on to something . :)

Sage

Niner
July 10, 2008, 05:39 PM
Sagetown, I'll give it a try next time I go to the range, although I have little faith at the moment of me hitting any target smaller than a UPS truck........broad side facing me.

Sagetown
July 10, 2008, 05:55 PM
Yea ! Alright Niner :D

Wow!; with a target that size you could draw an image of a guy with a white feather in his hat, and I bet you'd hit it.

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