Stealth baseball bat?


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RyanM
July 7, 2008, 03:58 PM
With all the recent talk on sticks (at least it seems that way to me), I had an idea. Wood can really only be so dense. Most hardwoods top out at a specific gravity of about 1 (equal in density to water). But what about something like this?

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1089&step=4&showunits=inches&id=195&top_cat=60

Specific gravity of 2.71. A 33 inch length of that would weigh 31 ounces, so 1 ounce more than an adult baseball bat of the same length. But at 7/8" diameter, the force would be concentrated on a much smaller area. Plus, the weight isn't mostly at one end, so it would swing considerably faster.

Sure, you could go to the hardware store and just get a steel pipe that would weigh about the same per inch, but solid aluminum just has more class. Sort of like the "redneck katana" (3 feet of rebar with duct and skateboard tape for a grip), but lighter and more maneuverable.

And there'd be all kinds of ways to disguise a plain 7/8" diameter metal stick, if you feel the need. That'd be a helluva broom handle.

And I seem to remember reading a few years back that some meter readers swear by a 3-4 foot length of the thickest wall 3/4"-1" aluminum pipe you can find, for "discouraging" aggressive dogs. This'd be like that, turned up a few notches.

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alwilliam
July 7, 2008, 04:10 PM
I use 6061 in a lot of ways..its a good basic metal.

Now...ws127 alloy is a great alloy and super strong.

Goblin
July 9, 2008, 11:14 AM
I keep a junior little league alum bat in the house as a last ditch weapon!! That thing swings fast and easy!!!:)

highorder
July 9, 2008, 12:45 PM
I keep a junior little league alum bat in the house as a last ditch weapon!! That thing swings fast and easy!!!


Not to mention you can get one for $20.00 at any big box sporting goods store.... and its a ball bat, not some questionable weapon.

Pax Jordana
July 9, 2008, 02:51 PM
Mechanically.. sure, it'd work. Heck it'd pack a hell of a wallop.

Legally I dunno. A tee ball bat.. that's for teeball. Four feet of solid aluminum is.. what? Are you building a robot? Allergic to pine sap? better think up something good for when the cop goes, so what'd you hit him with?

Joe Demko
July 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
Go to the hardware store or even the tool aisles at someplace like Home Depot. You'll see scads of hitty, stabby, cutty stuff. Hitty, stabby, cutty stuff that can be used for other more mundane stuff besides being hitty, stabby, or cutty and generally doesn't provoke a lot of questioning from the po-po.

RyanM
July 9, 2008, 06:35 PM
Now I'm confused. A "tactical" shotgun with 8 rails, a flashlight, laser sight, red dot scope, night vision scope, 3 vertical foregrips, an old Knoxx drum magazine, and a Glock duct taped to the stock, is just peachy for home defense. But an aluminum stick is not. If you want to put great big holes in someone, you can use anything you want, because a justifiable shoot is a justifiable shoot. But if you just want to crack their head, maybe because you might be moving into a tiny apartment with paper thin walls soon, you need to use a farm implement or sporting equipment.

wheelgunslinger
July 9, 2008, 06:40 PM
depends on who you ask.
Some people think anything besides a break action 410 festooned with hello kitty stickers is a lever for the DA to pry you out of your home and into a jail cell. Much less a tactical 12 gauge belt fed highly optioned hd anti-intruder battery.

Pax Jordana
July 9, 2008, 07:17 PM
Ryan,

I understand your reaction, and I'm not thrilled with it either. ANY act of self-defense may have consequences depending on....where you live. as always. Accept the fact that to a prosecution lawyer, your shotgun has a bunch of little red infants stamped on it, and the 1911 was invented because Colt wasn't happy killing only six puppies before he had to reload.

Thing is, lots of laws protect guns, despite our constant alarmism. Not as many protect knives, and if you get into cudgels and stuff then the laws are those regarding 'other weapons for offensive use' or however the law words it (I'm too lazy to google.) So yes, sadly, the laws concerning firearms and NFW's may well be two sides of the coin.

Use a teddy bear in self-defense and you're still in a pile of crap. All I meant to say, and you'll see lots of people saying it if you read back, is that there are ways to make that pile shallower.

ETA: as a weapon, heck yeah it'd be mean. When people say 'how about an aluminum bat versus a wood bat for SD?' it all comes down to your sense of style :evil:

EHCRain10
July 9, 2008, 07:20 PM
gotta think about how easy it is to explain a wooden cane, but not a metal rod, unless you can make the rod appear like a medical cane

RyanM
July 9, 2008, 09:38 PM
I'm really not sure how much shallower the pile would be come if I used sporting equipment or a tool or something.

Why do you own only a five-iron? Why was it propped in a corner instead of in a bag, with a head cover? You've never even played a game of golf, so why do you own a club?

Why was your baseball bat lying around instead of locked in a closet? This baseball glove right next to it is brand new and never been used. This baseball shows no sign of ever having been hit. Obviously, you don't play baseball, and owned the bat solely for bustin' heads. And furthermore, you attempted to hide your intentions from police investigators, by buying related sports paraphernalia.

Why was a claw hammer buried in the "victim's" head? When was the last time you hammered or pried anything? The apartment complex you live in forbids nailing things to the walls. Obviously, you have no legitimate reason to own a hammer.

Really, I'm a believer in using the best tool for the job. If I want to hit a piece of cork wrapped in leather that's thrown at high speed, I'll use a baseball bat. If I want to hit a tiny little white ball with dents in it lying on the ground, I'll use a golf club. If I want to hit a nail, hammer. But for apartment defense, when I'd like to have the option of grabbing something that can't go through multiple walls, really seems like a metal stick would work good. Heavier than a wooden stick, faster and more maneuverable than a bat, classier than a pipe.

Probably would make a helluva cane, too, if I bent one end. Wouldn't have to worry about it flexing or breaking, ever. Does aluminum alloy soften if it's heated with a blowtorch, and then go back to full strength when it cools?

Joe Demko
July 9, 2008, 10:31 PM
I own a hammer because I sometimes drive nails. I own wrenches to to tighten things. I own a hatchet and machete for cutting wood and brush. I really do all these things and I would feel comfortable having any of them in my home or car for that reason.
"Stealth" weapons that have no other obvious purpose aren't really that stealthy, are they?

Pax Jordana
July 10, 2008, 12:35 AM
OK, I have no idea how to start at this, but instead of getting down on ryan we should find someone who can weigh in on the feasibility of a solid aluminum cane - from there, the point is rather well settled, wouldn't you say?

aluminummetallurgistsandstructuralengineers.cn is down - who's good on this stuff?

RyanM
July 10, 2008, 02:16 AM
"Stealth" weapons that have no other obvious purpose aren't really that stealthy, are they?

If by "stealth" you mean something that is unrecognizable as a weapon in a court of law, when it's bent and bloodstained, there is no such thing.

I meant something more like something that isn't recognizable as an effective weapon on cursory inspection. Something that a burglar is unlikely to grab immediately on entering, in case I come back at an inopportune moment. What percent of burglars is it that go straight to the kitchen and get a knife, first thing on entering a house?

A baseball bat is a baseball bat and a wrench is a wrench. It's pretty hard to hide what they are, and everyone with double digit or higher IQ knows that stuff like that makes great improvised weaponry.

An aluminum stick with a broom head duct taped to the end, however, looks like a crummy broom, and pretty much everyone knows that broom handles are made out of pieces of wood that weren't good enough for the toothpick factory, or paper-thin metal sometimes, and thus make poor impact weapons. Brooms these days will bend and/or break if you sweep too hard, let alone clubbing someone on the head. In fact, wasn't there a video some months ago of some guy stabbing a jewelry store guard, while the owner attempted to beat him on the head with a broom handle, which just bent like a piece of cooked spaghetti?

If you start out with a plain old aluminum dowel rod, the possibilities are endless. Especially since a solid rod can be turned down on a lathe or otherwise made into different shapes, unlike a pipe. Some people talk about having a gun in every room of the house. If you can't afford that, a hidden-in-plain-sight aluminum stick with the heft of a baseball bat in every room might be at least some comfort, and wouldn't look as strange as having a different golf club or a pitchfork or something in every room. And it's only $10 per stick plus shipping. People pay four times that for a decent wooden cane that's less than 40% as heavy.

ArfinGreebly
July 10, 2008, 02:31 AM
Well, if you have access to a lathe, why would you want to duct tape an aluminum shaft to a broom head?

The wooden broom handles are threaded at the end. So, match that thread, and off you go. It's clearly a replacement for that broom handle you broke, and it only makes sense that this one is stouter than the flimsy one you replaced.

Sweeping is still legal, most places.

TimboKhan
July 10, 2008, 07:05 AM
Not to mention you can get one for $20.00 at any big box sporting goods store

Pfft. Go to your local ARC or Goodwill or Garage Sale and you can find bats for under a couple of bucks. For playing, I want a new bat. For smiting, any old bat will do.

Really, I'm a believer in using the best tool for the job. If I want to hit a piece of cork wrapped in leather that's thrown at high speed, I'll use a baseball bat. If I want to hit a tiny little white ball with dents in it lying on the ground, I'll use a golf club. If I want to hit a nail, hammer. But for apartment defense, when I'd like to have the option of grabbing something that can't go through multiple walls, really seems like a metal stick would work good. Heavier than a wooden stick, faster and more maneuverable than a bat, classier than a pipe.


I sort of know what your saying, but the weight forward design of a bat lets you build up more speed, and the size of the bat lets you transfer a good deal more energy from the bat to the crook than a metal stick would. Also a good aluminum bat is going to have far more surface area than a metal stick at less weight. I am not anti-stick by any stretch, but for purely defensive purposes, I think the bat is superior. Walking down the street is where the stick comes into it's own, as walking sticks are common and abundant, to include metal shafted type things. For class and style, I would prefer an Irish walking stick, but whatever.

Interestingly, I made a post on the Kukhri the other day and said almost exactly the same thing about the transfer of energy and weight forward design.

hso
July 10, 2008, 12:11 PM
When considering an pure impact weapon I advise folks to look at pre-firearms weapons. These underwent a thousand years of development in perfecting the design and construction and were even used in WWI.

As an amusing anecdote, an SF buddy of mine that spent time in Somalia reported that the silvery aluminum baseball bat turned out to be a much better tool for crowd control than M4s. Everyone had a gun, but a shiny club made quite an "impression" upon anyone getting too close.

B00SS
July 10, 2008, 12:35 PM
I think the walking stick is a great idea. You can beat up the end a little and ==wala== "I've used it for walking."

TimboKhan
July 10, 2008, 04:22 PM
an SF buddy of mine that spent time in Somalia reported that the silvery aluminum baseball bat turned out to be a much better tool for crowd control than M4s.

I have mentioned a few times before that Ax handles were extremely effective both in a deterrence role and in actual use when I was in Somalia during Operation Restore Hope. If someone thinks they are about to get cracked in the grape by an ax handle or a bat, they are very likely to move it along.

RyanM
July 10, 2008, 08:54 PM
I sort of know what your saying, but the weight forward design of a bat lets you build up more speed, and the size of the bat lets you transfer a good deal more energy from the bat to the crook than a metal stick would. Also a good aluminum bat is going to have far more surface area than a metal stick at less weight.

It's sort of the opposite. If you whack someone with an object, and the object stops, 100% of the energy is transferred. A bat won't transfer a greater amount of energy, unless it starts with more.

And for a given amount of energy (when you're talking about the amount that a human arm can generate), greater concentration of force results in greater injury. Hitting someone with a rowboat paddle (the flat part) vs. a bat vs. a stick vs. a sword. They'll all break bones about equally well for X pounds of force, but the smaller the impact area, the more damage you get to soft tissues.

A lot of people that like slapjacks advocate using the edge, because of the greater concentration of force. Total force remains the same, but force per area increases dramatically.

TimboKhan
July 11, 2008, 08:52 AM
well, I am no physics major, so I will just assume you are right. I still would rather have the bat, though. Practical experience tells me that I can hit a baseball farther with a 28 oz bat that I could with a walking stick made of metal, so it stands to reason that I will be able to clock someone better with it.

Maelstrom
July 11, 2008, 09:28 AM
I still prefer to use a lead pipe in the conservatory.

-Professor Plum

hso
July 11, 2008, 12:02 PM
If the "stick" you're swinging has the same mass center then the only thing that changes with the force applied is the length and the contact surface.

If, OTOH, the "stick" is weighted forward you move the mass center forward increasing your angular momentum and increasing the force applied (assuming you're hitting everything about 4" down from the end of the stick). Bats, Kukris, Axs all hit "harder" because the center of mass is moved forward out towards the end of the "stick" being swung.

TimboKhan
July 11, 2008, 03:17 PM
Hso said what I was trying to say in a much more intelligent manner.

1010011010
July 11, 2008, 05:17 PM
Does aluminum alloy soften if it's heated with a blowtorch, and then go back to full strength when it cools?High strength aluminum alloy parts are often mechanically bonded because welding makes the metal brittle. If you're just lookin' for a thwackin' stick, though, you can probably find an alloy that will work.

If we're talking about the physics of striking someone, a solid rod is not the way to go, because most of the force you build up (and transfer upon strike) goes to angular momentum. A lightweight rod or tube with weight at the end would work best.

A stabilized wood dowel (http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?ITEM_ID=5877&DEPARTMENT_ID=65) with one end drilled out and hammered full of lead would work well and probably be lighter and cheaper than an aluminum rod of the same size/weight.

wulfbyte
July 11, 2008, 06:42 PM
I think there would be a vibration problem using a solid aluminum rod for a strong swinging strike. It would be great for thrusting though, if the ends were nicely rounded.

TimboKhan
July 12, 2008, 02:40 AM
It would be great for thrusting though, if the ends were nicely rounded.


This is going to sound like a dumb question, but how effective could a thrust with a walking stick type of arrangment be? It doesn't seem like it would do that much to me, but then I honestly don't know about thrusting.

RyanM
July 12, 2008, 04:04 PM
How effective is a straight punch compared to a hook? If you know how to put a good amount of body weight behind it, a thrust can still be pretty effective, and is generally a lot faster than a swing.

On the weight and balance, a stick may not hit quite as hard as a baseball bat, but it is going to be faster to swing. Half-staffs have been used by pretty much every culture on earth.

ambidextrous1
July 12, 2008, 04:18 PM
Has anyone considered what a formidable weapon a carpenter's saw would be as an improvised edged weapon? It has about the same weight, heft, and striking surface area as a machete.

Would you prefer smooth or serrated cuts? :eek:

2TransAms
July 12, 2008, 04:43 PM
Oh,I thought this thread was gonna be about the Easton Stealth bat. I actually swing one,the composite handle flexes more to give you more "pop" on contact and cuts down on vibration.

:p

Robert Hairless
July 12, 2008, 05:39 PM
Sweeping is still legal, most places.

Careful. It often depends on whom you sweep with.

leadcounsel
July 12, 2008, 06:17 PM
What's wrong with a 20 gauge shotgun with buckshot?

If you live in a cramped apartment, a swinging weapon may not be the best choice because you may strike door jams, walls, furniture, etc.

Consider a shorter weapon - as HSO suggested, look to history. If you must melee, consider the modern equivalent of a warhammer or waraxe such as a nice Estwing 20 oz. carpenter hammer or a roofing hatchet. I have a $30 Estwing carpentry ax/hammer that I take camping. It's perfect for hand to hand self defense too. Or why not a nice 7" Kabar knife?

I agree that distance is your friend, but you don't sound like you have the room to swing a big weapon if you live in a small apartment.

jhansman
July 13, 2008, 12:18 PM
FWIW, my son was recently charged with (get this) felony possession of a deadly weapon by the CHP for having an aluminum bat in the front seat of his car. Nevermind that a ball and glove were with it, he was arrested and we had to post $2200 in bail to get him out. Can't tell you how angry I was, especially since the charge has now been reduced to a misdemeanor, but I'm still out the bail $$. His hearing is later this month. Word to to the wise...

22Hicks
August 13, 2008, 12:18 AM
The stealth

22Hicks
August 13, 2008, 12:21 AM
The stealth is the leader in composite bats. Their great if you've got the skill. Otherwise it's probably not worth the extra cost. Good information at www.baseballbatreviews.ruqqa.com

Australian Shooter
August 13, 2008, 01:50 AM
A "tactical" shotgun with 8 rails, a flashlight, laser sight, red dot scope, night vision scope, 3 vertical foregrips, an old Knoxx drum magazine, and a Glock duct taped to the stock, is just peachy for home defense.

Not in Australia, it ain't. This is because by the time you open the gun safe, then getting the keys to open the ammo box, getting the ammo and trying to load the weapon, you would be killed by the BG already. A metal baseball bat is great for HD in Australia, but I much prefer a sword to a bat though because like a baseball bat, you do not have to keep a sword under lock and key (except for Victoria, but I don't live in that s**thole anyway).

Zip7
August 13, 2008, 02:42 AM
Speaking as a parent of a HS baseball player, I've spent more money on baseball bats than on firearms in the last ten years. They all break about 30 days after the warranty goes out - and that's just from hitting baseballs with them. I've got to buy another one before the end of the year.

Now if someone broke into my house, and I had to grab a bat to do battle with them, no problem - we have bats everywhere. But I kid you not when I say if the first one I grabbed was a Stealth or a TPX Exo, I would put it back and grab another one - a cheaper one. I can't afford to mess up the good ones.

Todjaeger
August 14, 2008, 12:16 AM
Stealth baseball bat for HD?

I'm actually surprised at members suggestions... Going to the effort required to manufacture a "beatstick", with the intention that it doesn't at first glance look like a beatstick sounds to me like an unnecessary waste of time, money and effort.

If one wants to have something available and concealable in their home, in case they want/need to bludgeon an intruder, then something like an ASP (http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=BA035) would seem to fit the bill, being easily concealled and having a small impact area. Depending on the local legal code, it might be illegal to have though.

I would suggest something more readily available, legal (at least until used to club someone) and dual purpose, which is always a bright idea (pardon the pending pun), particularly for nighttime intruders. I'm surprised no one suggested something like a 4 or 6-cell D battery Maglite (http://www.maglite.com/anatomy_spare_D.asp). Having something like this near ones nightstand is easily explainable, and being over 3 lbs and nearly 2ft long, would do quite a number if someone was hit with it. Yes, that is the voice of experience, don't ask.

As for "legal" issues, if someone was to use anything to harm someone else, depending on the jurisdiction in which they lived and the circumstances, it wouldn't matter what was used. Anything has the potential to be used as a weapon, and someone could be charged for using potentially anything. Depending on the right (or wrong) circumstances, if someone hurt an intruder by collapsing their stack of Guns & Ammo (or any other publication...) onto them, there still exists the potential for legal repercussions. The only way to really avoid any possible fallout, would be to do nothing. So keep yourself and family safe, and let the rest fall where it may.

-Cheers

FourNineFoxtrot
August 14, 2008, 02:34 PM
Personally, I wouldn't use something specially crafted as a blunt instrument. The legal concerns have been covered pretty well already. Aside from that, don't use something you don't want to lose, because you aren't likely to get it back, afterward.

I keep meaning to get a bat. A real wood bat, with a ball and glove. Jhansman's story is both scary and, frankly, unsurprising. Probably I could carry the bat, ball, and glove, behind the seat in my truck, particularly if I put it all in a bag. But it's never a sure thing, is it?

p35
August 17, 2008, 02:31 PM
In college I had an old car that suffered from "bead leaks"- the tires would suddenly lose their seal on the wheels and go flat overnight. Tire shop said they'd done all they could about it.

I kept a steel pipe about 30" long by 3/4" ID on the floor of the back seat. We called it a "cheater bar"- maybe folks still do- slip it over the end of the lug wrench and you had plenty of leverage on the lug nuts that the yahoos at the tire shop overtightened with an air wrench.

Would it have other uses in a pinch? Probably;).

Could I explain it to a cop? I did at least once, but those were the days when a buck knife on the belt was standard equipment, so they didn't get excited about much.

Navy joe
August 17, 2008, 09:57 PM
A good car item is the standard car lug wrench. Complete the bend to 90 deg, weld another shaft and socket onto the end in line with the long beam of the wrench for spinning off your lugnuts faster. presto, sidehandle baton.

PAOLO721
August 21, 2008, 08:40 PM
The beauty of a baseball bat, is that even foul tips count.;)

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