[Lucky Jim]

Are these rifles worth buying? I have found one in just about perfect shape and I think I can reload if I don't mind paying the high brass prices and can use .308 bullets. Does anyone have any advice on these? They look pretty nice. I plan on shooting cast bullets so I would not really be hard on the rifle.

[scottsw1]

Lucky Jim,
Yese are really nice rifles and I say buy one! We have a dedicated forum on another board, here is a link. http://pub125.ezboard.com/fcollectorguns35625frm1

[Cosmoline]

Was Alaska worth buying?

Of COURSE! They're the best deal in C&R rifles now, bar none. My K-31 is THE MOST ACCURATE rifle I have ever owned. With some tweaking on the stock it shoots sub-MOA with GP-11 ball. Plus, it's faster than any bolt action except perhaps an SMLE. The 7.5 Swiss is basically a .308 improved, with a very sharp shoulder. Its accuracy is all the more remarkable considering its vintage (late 1880's IIRC). Basically, the Swiss got it right the first time.

But they look weird, and people don't understand them, and the collectors aren't too interested in them. So they go for a bargain basement price. All I say is, their loss can be your gain.

Graff & Sons is producing low-price brass, which is currently backordered but should be flowing again soon.

The ONE drawback of the rifle is that it was designed for GP-11, and you'll only keep that awesome accuracy if you stay close to the ball loads in your handloads. Still, that's not hard to do.

Did I mention that GP-11 is the best standard grade military ball ammo ever made? Each round is carefully sealed with wax which both keeps out moisture and helps keep the chamber cool. Accurate. REAL accurate.

The only C&R rifles that compare are the best Swedes and the best Finns, both of which will cost you more and have less consistent quality control standards.

There are scope mounts and special sights aplenty from the Swiss, and some good domestic extras as well.

My advice--buy five. Pick the best one and put one of Darrel's mounts on it along with a nice LER scope. You won't be disappointed.

PS--you can often find the name and address of the former Swiss owner under the buttplate. Some buyers over here have made contact with these old soldiers, much to their astonishment! I know of one case where the US owner was so moved by the account given by the old Swiss man that he sent his old rifle back to him. Apparently not all the Swiss wanted to switch over to assault rifles, and missed their old K-31's greatly. They're still used for competition shooting over there.

[swingset]

Don't forget too that you can resize .284 Winchester brass (one pass through the 7.5 dies then trim), then seat your standard .308 bullet and you've got 7.5 SR loaded up.

BTW, Cosmoline is exactly right, they are are incredible shooters. I have one scoped with a 9x scope, some slight tweaking done (not bedded), and I recently put 10 rounds onto a 4" gong at 300 yards with it (with about 10 witnesses who said I'd be lucky to get 3 on it).

People who dismiss them have no clue about them - what do the swiss make that isn't top notch??

[zpo]

Cosmoline:

I would appreciate some info on " Darrel's mounts". Thanks in advance.

[444]

They are terrific rifles. You need to buy one or two. I have two. You are jumping into this at just the right time because that brass from Graff's is supposed to be coming out any day now. Get it while you can. If you miss this opportunity, you are in trouble.

[Dave P]

Another vote to resize .284 Winchester brass. Easy to do, and it works fine - and saves $$.

[DMK]

I would appreciate some info on " Darrel's mounts". Thanks in advance.

Here you go zpo,



http://pub113.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85

[El Rojo]

I concur, but a few if you can. They are great guns. I have shot mine in quite a few of the THR Postal/Virtual matches. A very accurate gun.

[0007]

You might want to check out www.swissrifles.com. There's also a guy named "K-31" on www.assaultweb.net who is considered the resident Swiss rifle expert over there. He posts on the Moison(sp) and Mausers thread. I have two.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

DMK,

No joy on that link. Got another?

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Also, who's got nice K-31s for a lowish price right now?

[Stoney]

For anybody in the central Ohio area ,I saw two sharp K-31's in
the used rack at the New Albany Shooting Range. Price was around 130.00 $each.I Have two of these rifles and there both outstanding shooters.

[Futo Inu]

Cosmoline, thanks for the info. How is it that the K-31 is so fast of an action to cycle, as you say? What I mean is, when I handled one and cycled the action keeping my head in firing position, the result was a very painful bruising/cutting of my right check (visible for over a week), from that big ring. Thus, I concluded that the only way to shoot them was to lower rifle from shooting position between each shot, in order to work the action sans the sharp pain. This would be much slower than other actions, such as a Mauser. If you cut the ring off, then it would make sense. :confused:

[vertigo7]

There's a gun show this weekend here in my neck of the woods.. if I find a K-31 in good condition, it's coming home with me.

[IMtheNRA]

I heard on one of the Swiss boards that K-31s are $89 right now at SOG (Southern Ohio Guns?).

[Dave R]

SOG's website says $99. Maybe its a special?

[Cosmoline]

Futu--I think you're holding your head way too close to the action. That's something I've noticed a lot of folks do who are used to shooting scoped rifles. The K-31's are designed to be shot with the head well back, rather than up near the action. At least that's my impression.

[Duncan Idaho]

I love mine.

[Futo Inu]

Well, since there's only ONE area (approximately) on the stock where the optimal cheek weld can found, holding my head back from where I would put it on every single other one of my rifles is WHOLLY unacceptable, and is a flat-out design flaw in the rifle, period. Sure, one could learn how to hold one's head too far back from what is normal/comfortable/conducive to quick accurate shooting, but why would you?

So, the question becomes, what harm is there, if any, in removing all or part of the ring? What in the heck does was the ring designed to do? Obviously, it's for putting a finger or thumb into, but is this in order to "de-cock", or what?

[444]

It is your safety for one thing.
It allows you to quickly recock in the event of a misfire.
It allows you to lower the firing pin without snapping it.

[Futo Inu]

Thank you 444. I see uses 2 and 3, but exactly HOW is it a safety? You mean it is THE safety? If so, does it turn to engage then? And, can it be replaced by a smaller ring or otherwise shorter, graspable part, whether ring or otherwise - anyone make such a thing that you're aware of? Probably only needs 1-1.5" shortened off of it.

[444]

Yeah, you pull it back and turn it 90 degrees clockwise for the safety. There is a slot there for it.

[Biff]

Cosmoline-

Was that you shooting the Schmidt Rubin on range C at Birchwood Saturday afternoon?

[swingset]

Well, since there's only ONE area (approximately) on the stock where the optimal cheek weld can found, holding my head back from where I would put it on every single other one of my rifles is WHOLLY unacceptable, and is a flat-out design flaw in the rifle, period. Sure, one could learn how to hold one's head too far back from what is normal/comfortable/conducive to quick accurate shooting, but why would you?

I find no such problem with the K-31, and can with the cheek weld I use cycle the bolt without relenquishing my position on the rifle, just as I can with a SMLE.

Perhaps the problem is the designers used their military technique as a guide, while you prefer a more modern, "face on the action" style of shooting. I was always more comfortable with the English Musketry style, in which is the weld achieved with head to the mid-rear of the stock. You're comfortable shooting one way, and might find the K31 impracticle for that method, but realize it isn't a design flaw.

[Detritus]

could one of you nice K-31 owners post a few pics please ?? :D

saw a Schmidt-Rubin in one of my fave gunstores reacently, and it differs from the pictures i've seen in various placs on the web the past day or so, adn i'm wondering if the rifle in question might be a different model or variant of the S-R...
(all teh pics i've seen show an all metal bolt handle, the gun i saw at the shop had what looked to be wooden knobs on the end of the bolt lever.)

after all teh talk i've seen here at THR about these guns i am hooing to get a shot at owning one i teh near future (currently unemployed or the gun in question would already be IN my safe!)

[swingset]

If the bolt handle on the one you saw was Red or Wood, chances are 9 out of 10 you saw a 1911 Carbine, the earlier version of the K-31. There was also a 1911 Long rifle. They are very similar, but not identical to the K-31. You can really tell when you see them side-by-side.

Here is a comprehensive comparision:
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

[Detritus]

looks to be a 1911 long rifle, though (and i may be mistaken) the example i saw i believe had a hooded front sight..... but again i may be dreaming that detail.

thanks, the gun in question had a blond colored (birch maybe??) stock, very clear and clean, like i said if not for being unemployed that beauty would now be in my safe and i'd be looking for a source of reloadable brass... (there needs to be a "drooling like a fool" smiley)

[vertigo7]

Update: Went to the gunshow today and found a table with a half-dozen K31's on it. All priced at $275.00 and up, and two over $400.00. :what: They all looked as if they'd been chained to someone's truck and dragged around town for a month. Used / milsurp rifles are fine with me, but these rated as "destroyed" in my book. I thanked him for his time and left quickly.

[Gewehr98]

Note the red handle:

http://mauser98.com/schmidt.jpg

[DMK]

DMK, No joy on that link. Got another? You can't get the Parallax forum to open or the just Darrell's banner at the top? I can't get the banner to open either, but keep an eye on the forum and you'll see when they become available.

[HarryB]

This is my 1940 K-31 with one of Darrell's Scout Mounts and a Cheep NC Star 2X pistol scope

http://photobucket.com/albums/0803/HarryB3/8330b9c5.jpg


Close up of the mount:
http://photobucket.com/albums/0803/HarryB3/c75c736d.jpg

View from the top shows that the loading/ejection port is not blocked by the mount or the scope:
http://photobucket.com/albums/0803/HarryB3/5f89c88c.jpg

The scout mount bolts onto the rear sight "housing(?)" and requires no permanent alterations. The rifle can be quickly restored to its original configuration for collectors concerns...



They all looked as if they'd been chained to someone's truck and dragged around town for a month. Used / milsurp rifles are fine with me, but these rated as "destroyed" in my book.

All the K-31s I have seen show substantial stock wear, especially in the butt. They were used in rocky mountainous terrain in and out of the snow. I wonder if being tripoded with two other rifles with the butt in the snow is what contributes to what looks like water damage int he butt stock.

Accurate little buggers. I can ring the 300 yard gong with great frequency with this rifle and the GP-11 ammo. And I considered myself an average shot...

GET ONE WHILE YOU CAN!!

[444]

"All the K-31s I have seen show substantial stock wear, especially in the butt. "

I have read a lot of speculation about this. One theory is that they carried their rifles slung muzzle down and the back of their helmet rubbed against the stock. I also read something having to do with riding horses. You would think the real reason would have been found out somewhere along the line.

[Futo Inu]

and man oh man is it sweet! In another older thread here on THR about Schmidt Rubins, Tamara described hers as "delicious" - lol - well, I have to concur, this rifle is one tasty nugget - I'm in love. The straight bolt is so smooth and so fast, and the thing is so well made, it's unreal that they come up with something this good in the late 1800s. Also, the front sight adjustment method, via the angled channel, is quite ingenious, but I think the single *best* thing about the rifle is the unequivocally satisfying and LOUD *Click* of the 6-round magazine when she finds home! :) As far as the ring hitting you in the cheek, yes it still would for the position I like on the buttstock (even for iron sight use), but I simply lower the rifle just a smidge below the line of sight to cycle it - maybe 3 inches. Also, just in case, I removed a tad bit of steel from the sharp left rear edges of the ring, making the edges more rounded - this will thus result in a bruise instead of a bruise and a cut in the event of some accidental face-slamming.

This one's stock, BTW, for some reason is in pristine condition, all the way down. :confused: I checked the bore at the gunshow and it's pristine as well (always take a bore light to gunshows, if you don't :) ). It was from a private collection, to boot. :) It was marked $225, and I paid $210, and they guy threw in a pretty decent "modern" sling at no charge. He also gave me his phone number so I can buy his reloading dies for it. He said that on this one there is *no* markings under the buttplate. :( I must get another one of these, then maybe another, then..... Oh, I shot 12 rounds yesterday, and I did not get that great of groups (only about 5" at 50 yards), but I've yet to determine whether this is my poor ability with irons or a dud rifle. I'd imagine it's my ability - gonna scope it and find out. :)

[444]

"I checked the bore at the gunshow and it's pristine as well "

These rifles were issued to the Swiss citizen/soldier. These rifles were inspected annually and if the bore was worn from improper cleaning rod usage or whatever, the soldier had to PAY to have the barrel replaced out of his own pocket.
In other words, all the bores on these rifles are pristine.

[BowStreetRunner]

man you guys are making me want one of those real bad
how long do you think the current prices (a steal of a rifle for 100 to 150 bucks) will last?
BSR

[natedog]

I heard that the stock wear is from the cleated boots the soldiers would wear/ when they put the rifles stock to the ground, it would rub up on the boots....