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shevrock
July 8, 2008, 01:41 AM
Well i saw this section, and decided to look at black powder prices and such. is it cheaper to use a black powder gun for fun on the range, then say a 45[random caliber]. Basically I'm asking which is cheaper in the long run.

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Old Fuff
July 8, 2008, 02:16 AM
In a black powder gun you have caps (or flints) powder and lead balls. No cartridge case which is the most expensive component in a metallc cartridge.

It soould be clear which is the least expensive (excluding .22 Rim Fire).

shevrock
July 8, 2008, 02:38 AM
so what's a good little black powder revolver?

Smokin_Gun
July 8, 2008, 03:38 AM
Here's a couple; A LiL! one and a LiL Bigger one! and a Bigger one.!..

1863 .31cal Pocket Remington
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/07-07-08_1123.jpg

1858 .36cal Remington New Model Army (Navy or Army Police)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/07-07-08_1129.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/07-07-08_1122.jpg

1858 .44cal Remington New Model Army
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/06-09-08_1140.jpg

Bought these five in the last month for under $1000 including the War of Northern Agression Chess Set. Revs were bought on Auctions...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/07-07-08_1150.jpg

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp;jsessionid=TZEXO15QV5PHBLAQBBKCCOFMCAEFKIWE?id=cat20817&navAction=jump&navCount=1&parentId=cat20712&parentType=category&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&_requestid=141226

SG

arcticap
July 8, 2008, 04:12 AM
There's not much of a difference in the ammo costs between centerfire and BP revolvers unless a person casts their own round balls. And even then, if a person reloads their own centerfire ammo they can save some money that way too.
It can cost about 20 cents a round to shoot BP revolvers unless you buy a large quantity of components at a discount or find them on clearance.
I've recycled brass ammo cases for $1.40 - $1.60 per pound, so even if a person doesn't reload centerfire, they can receive a rebate on their ammo costs by recycling.
The savings in shooting black powder guns are that folks generally shoot less shots per session because of the additional time spent loading.
The ammo costs are pretty much a wash in the end. :)

shevrock
July 8, 2008, 04:25 AM
So where's a good place to get most of what you need?

oneshooter
July 8, 2008, 11:30 PM
Do you want a local shop? If so then we need to know where you are.
I purchase a lot on Auction Arms.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

moooose102
July 8, 2008, 11:46 PM
what you may not like is all the cleaning involved in bp shooting. make certain of what you are getting into before you buy. i do not like all the cleaning that HAS TO BE DONE IMMEDIATLY AFTER SHOOTING. my life is rather random, and i have to do some seriuous planning to have a big chunk of time in order to shoot a bunch AND do a complete tear down of the gun in the same day. i know when i go hunting, i will not fire a shot out of it unless i can kill. mostly due to the fact that i have to tear it down that evening. i may go all season with out ever firing a shot. i do change out the bp, however. by blowing out the old stuff with compresed air. then a quick wipe down, let it dry over nite, and reload the next morning.

arcticap
July 9, 2008, 12:27 AM
Many folks here recommend buying revolvers from Cabela's because they have a no B.S. return policy. Plus they sell most supplies and accessories.
There's a bunch of other places to buy from too if you want another brand beside Pietta, but their guns are more than satisfactory.

shevrock
July 9, 2008, 02:17 AM
Well, i actually love to clean my guns.not in a falic [can't remember how to spell it] kind of way, it's just fun. I do want to check my "local" stores first. theirs one that sucks near a gas station [ :D ] that i think had some good looking blackpowder pistols. I think i might pick up a cheaper one locally, and see how i like blackpowder weapons.

one other question. If i buy a 44. blackpowder, do i have to use 44 balls.

mykeal
July 9, 2008, 08:21 AM
It's important to use the ammunition the gun was designed for.

.44 revolvers use .451, .454 or .457 round balls. You can also use conical bullets with the same dimensions.

jacksonisr
July 9, 2008, 10:43 AM
In the long run you can most likely come out cheaper per round to go with a muzzle loading gun as far as ammo goes. Muzzle loader shooting, however, is all together different than handgun shooting. It does involve more load time and extra care with the firearm. I don't feel the difference in the cost should sway your decision because it will not be that signifigant. Muzzle loader shooters are a special breed and have their (our) own sense of enjoyment from what we shoot. Talk with different people who shoot muzzle loaders and make sure you are going that route because you want to shoot a muzzle loader, not just because it will save a couple of cents per round.

scrat
July 9, 2008, 12:14 PM
nice pics smokin gun


for sure if your looking for black powder check out cabelas.

a lot of people will tell you to stay away from brass frames. i have two of them and loaded correctly they shoot really good. i believe cabelas has the 1851 pietta for 139.99. a very good price. this is one of my most accurate guns

shevrock
July 9, 2008, 10:43 PM
I not making a choice of blackpowder, or normal because of price. it's a small factor, but i really wanna get into blackpowder shooting. The only problem i think is going to be how hard i ride my guns, before i get them "out of the field" and get them cleaned. Would that be a problem for a blackpowder revolver/rifle.

frontiergander
July 9, 2008, 11:19 PM
all i can say is, Stay away from the cabelas 1851 confederate navy .44 revolver! They sent me 4 replacements before telling me to pick out something else.

They are pure junk and my first and second one fell apart in my hand while shooting them. the replacements they sent me couldnt even fire due to them being froze up.

shevrock
July 10, 2008, 01:31 AM
Is a basic muzzle loading rifle [classic kind] any good. also i've got a civil war era one, that would be really stupid to try to shoot right?

Ifishsum
July 10, 2008, 02:16 AM
The only problem i think is going to be how hard i ride my guns, before i get them "out of the field" and get them cleaned. Would that be a problem for a blackpowder revolver/rifle.

It sure could be. My black powder revolver is good for about 4, maybe 5 cylinders full before it starts hanging due to fouling build up. At the very least I have to pull the cylinder, wipe down the front of the chambers and the rear of the barrel and I usually push a couple patches through the bore while I'm at it. And if you don't give it a thorough cleaning within 48 hours of shooting (preferably 12 hours) you will almost certainly get rust starting somewhere.

The rifle is a bit more forgiving as far as number of shots, but still needs cleaned very soon after shooting. I forgot to clean one for 3 days one time and rust was already starting.

Smokin_Gun
July 10, 2008, 03:04 AM
They are pure junkAll of UM Are? Or a run a bad luck? They must a been from a Northern Cabelas...What did you get instead and why din't you get the differant model after 2 fell all apart in your hand while shooting them, I'd a owned a piece of Cabelas ifin that happened to me.:cool:

SG

Rem700
July 10, 2008, 03:30 AM
There is always BP substitutes such as 777 or APP I have let both a 777 loaded shotgun and lever action rifle go a full year after fireing 50rds rounds thru each without cleaning and didnt have any issues, I would not try this with pyrodex or true blackpowder.

mykeal
July 10, 2008, 07:51 AM
I not making a choice of blackpowder, or normal because of price. it's a small factor, but i really wanna get into blackpowder shooting. The only problem i think is going to be how hard i ride my guns, before i get them "out of the field" and get them cleaned. Would that be a problem for a blackpowder revolver/rifle.
I can't really say if it would be a problem or not, as I don't know what you mean by 'how hard I ride my guns'. Certainly it's a problem if you abuse them, but if all you mean is you shoot them a lot, then no, I don't see a problem.

Abuse is very heavy loads, allowing dirt to get into the action and bore, allowing moisture to get in the action and bore, etc, the very things you shouldn't do to any firearm, smokeless or black powder. Specifically with respect to black powder, you can expect degrading performance if you shoot a lot without periodic cleaning - how often depends on how much shooting. Going a full year without cleaning any black powder gun is abuse regardless of the type of propellant used. Treat your gun with respect: keep it clean and dry.

Is a basic muzzle loading rifle [classic kind] any good. also i've got a civil war era one, that would be really stupid to try to shoot right?

What do you mean by 'basic muzzle loading rifle'? Is it an original 17th century gun? Many can still be used, others are simply dangerous. No generalization can be made without an inspection by a competent gunsmith. The same holds true of modern replicas - condition is very important, so before anyone can answer your question we'd have to have a reasonable description of the condition of the bore and action.

omarkw11@gmail.com
July 10, 2008, 12:29 PM
:uhoh:although i do recommend cleaning as soon as possible after shooting, it is possible to let them go a long time without a problem if you live in a dry climate. i live in west co (very, very dry).

frontiergander
July 10, 2008, 12:53 PM
the first '51 brass frame cabelas revolver, every time i would fire the pistol, the wedge pin and barrel would fly off the frame. They sent me a new wedge pin and it kept doing it, the next time out the entire wedge pin, barrel, cylinder AND cylinder shaft blew off all together. The pin that held the shaft on to the frame broke off.

the second one, same crap only the pin never broke, it just kept falling out and finally the hammer wouldnt pull back on it any more.

Invest in a good quality revolver. I havent touched a pistol since that one, and its been a good 10years.

shevrock
July 10, 2008, 02:23 PM
By ride them hard, i mean i shoot and shoot and shoot, in one setting. I went through 50 shotgun shells in 20 minutes. And all of those were fired accurately, and safely. I can go through 22 really fast as well. I treat my guns great afterwords.

I was wondering, what's the recoil on revolvers and such. Is it like the same caliber weapon, just non-blackpowder.

frontiergander
July 10, 2008, 02:44 PM
recoil is nothing in a .44cal black powder revolver. Its like shooting my 22 mag.

shevrock
July 10, 2008, 04:14 PM
REALLY:what: I thought it'd be like a real 44.

frontiergander
July 10, 2008, 04:39 PM
heck no. A real .44 like mine shoots a 240-250 grain conical VS a round ball that weighs maybe 80-90 grains. Im not even sure what a .451 ball weighs to be honest.

arcticap
July 10, 2008, 05:10 PM
From Speer:


0.451
137 grains

0.454
140 grains

0.457
143 grains

Shung
July 10, 2008, 05:33 PM
recoil is nothing in a .44cal black powder revolver. Its like shooting my 22 mag.

BS :)

Load a .44 with 2grams of black powder and a conical bullet, and it will rock enough (like a 38special, at least)

frontiergander
July 10, 2008, 05:35 PM
they dont kick at all with round ball and 28 grains of pyro p. Its a good thing i never loaded one of those conicals in that '51 confederate navy or i probably would have blown off my hand.

Have a good quality revolver if you want to shoot conicals out of it!

Smokin_Gun
July 10, 2008, 10:30 PM
the wedge pin and barrel would fly off the frame. They sent me a new wedge pin and it kept doing it

Have you ever heard of kitchen table gunsmithing? If you shoot C&B Guns especially Colt pepro Revs it's just a given that you need to know how to fix, tune, adjust and BP Rev.

All you had to do with out any of these skills was buy an 1858 Remington and not the cheapist Rev that Cabelas sold.

Or Tap the wedge in the '51 Reb so it stayed, or stone the back of the wedge with an India stone so it fit right.

I ain't exactly Rocket Science, but if you don't know what the problem is there are always these forums to ask in.

Happy Shootin',

SG

frontiergander
July 10, 2008, 10:37 PM
It was junk, pure and simple. If i wanted to rebuild the pistol to make it reliable, i would have had bought custom made. But for $100, what can you expect.

Cabelas even said the pin holding the cyl. shaft never should have come out on me. Im not the only person to have trouble with this model of revolver.

Im pretty much done with revolvers though. I always had a hankering for them and the single shots but to me, i just dont have a use for them.

shevrock
July 11, 2008, 01:41 AM
Is breaking down a bp revolver, as difficult as a normal revolver. I only it's difficult because i feel like i'll screw up putting it back together. :D

Tomahawk674
July 11, 2008, 02:21 AM
Single action revolvers are quite simple to take appart and reassemble, specially when compared to double action revolvers.

Smokin_Gun
July 11, 2008, 02:33 AM
recoil is nothing in a .44cal black powder revolver. Its like shooting my 22 mag.



Guess you may have needed to do a little more research before you went and bought the cheapest that Cabelas had, like I said previously. Apparently you still haven't done any research or you just don't listen to anyone giving you valid info.

Here's some more valid info, A Colt 3rd generation Signature Model 1st Dragoon with an R&D Conversion Cylinder housing six .45 Long Colt 255gr flatnose soft led boolits sittin' on 35gr of "real" Black Powder....a LiL' more kick than the rat fart pyrodex and a 144gr round ball you are so aquainted with. Or you can load 50gr of BP behind that 144gr round ball and feel that.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Colt3rdDragoonPlusRDconvertion-1.jpg

???


SG

gtmerkley
July 11, 2008, 02:41 AM
much cheaper.

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