[Bud Tugly]

We all know that proper fit is important to accurate and comfortable shooting with a rifle or shotgun. You can get a gun custom fitted to you, but how many of us really bother to do that? Most folks just make do with the gun as it came off the rack and then complain and/or get rid of the gun if they can't shoot well with it.

Shoes, hats, and shirts come in many different sizes because our bodies are all different and we would be uncomfortable if we got them even a little bit too small or too large. The same must certainly also true of rifles and shotguns.

So why aren't they routinely offered in various stock dimensions to fit different people?

[Blakenzy]

IIRC S&W and some other makers have introduced pistols with interchangeable backstraps some time ago. Some shotguns and rifles are available in youth models which have a shorter LOP. Other than that there is not much room to make a gun smaller without affecting the proper functioning of it.

[zinj]

Trying to make several different furniture sets for each gun would be extremely expensive and wasteful, considering that around 80% to 90% of shooters can get by with either standard or youth sized stocks (this coming from someone who is part of the 10% that is getting screwed).

[Bud Tugly]

Yeah, there are the youth models, but many guns aren't even offered in those. I find it hard to believe that some long-armed galoot standing 6'8" and a petite lady standing 5'1" can be comfortable using the identical gun.

I get it about the expense involved, but couldn't shoe manufacturers use that same argument and insist on offering their products in just one size?

[mnrivrat]

If the guns came in sizes like shoes, which ones would you stock ? And how many of each ?

Just would be impossible to predict , and to come even close to being cost effective it would have to be all factory order as that would be the least costly method of having different LOP, Drops, etc. Not cost effective by any method I can conceive of, and would significantly increase the cost of every gun manufactured using that type formula.

A couple other attempts are being made such as the Mossberg super bantom I think they call it - interchangable butt spacers for different lengths. Mossberg also has LOD spacers available for their shotguns, and Benelli includes a drop kit in at least their higher end guns.

I think that is about the best we can expect for factory variability.

[Bud Tugly]

Most hat manufacturers have gone to offering sizes in S, M, L, and XL. Couldn't gun makers at least offer those options?

Back in the days when many people only bought one or two guns in their lifetimes, I could see that it wasn't worth the extra bother. These days, though, most folks I know own more guns than they do hats or pairs of shoes. I know I sure do.

[Fast Frank]

That's one of the reasons why the AR15 Carbine is such an excellent rifle.

The six position stock isn't about making the rifle "Evil", it's about making it fit everybody.

It works. One of those six positions will fit just fine for any size shooter.

Also, My 11-87P came with two "Shims" under the recoil pad that allow a small length of pull adjustment. they are about 1/4 inch or so (I never measured them) I guess you could add more if needed, or remove them.

I like the fit the way it is, so I never messed with them.

[Brian Dale]

You said it, Fast Frank. I remember the smile on my Mom's face when she found the correct AR-15 stock length for her. She couldn't do that with Dad's old Springfield sporter, or with his 1100, either. She likes revolvers the size of Smith & Wesson J frames; she does not enjoy shooting Smith N frames.

OK, Bud; I just realized that handgun manufacturers have done what you're suggesting ever since there have been handguns. You posted,...shooting with a rifle or shotgun. ...so I surmise that you noticed it, too. For any lurkers who are slow, like me, I'll add what you left out of the OP:Shoes, hats, shirts and handguns come in many different sizes because our bodies are all different and...

I think that people buying long guns have just expected to "cut it down if it's too long; shim it and add a butt pad if it's too short," and variations on that theme, for a couple of hundred years.

Heck, we could start another aftermarket stock company and get rich, if we could predict what was going to sell (and isn't that always the key). Therefore, the second thing we'll do (after we all pick impressive sounding titles) is to hire a math whiz from the marketing/production/prediction/voodoo department of a major clothing, shoe or sporting goods manufacturer.

Do golf clubs, tennis racquets and the like generally come in a lot of different sizes? Bicycles have for years.

[highorder]

Bicycles have for years.

Bicycles have to come in sizes. The proportions of your legs must match the seat tube length or you will stress your joints.

[glockman19]

I thought they already did. J, K, L N, X frame revolvers, Ultra, Pro, Full size, Officer, 1911's also Full, Compact, Sub Compact Glock's.

[Brian Dale]

Glockman19, he's asking about long guns, here in the Shotguns forum. :)

[jackdanson]

My beretta px4 has straps, but I've never changed them.. stock seems to work fine. As far as rifles go, I like shorter stocks. Lots of people complain about the commie AK stocks, but I love em. Oh yeah, I'm 5-10 about 145 lbs.

[glockman19]

Glockman19, he's asking about long guns, here in the Shotguns forum.
Duh! I should have read the entire post.
With regard to rifles, AR's have adjustable Stocks and my 6 position could be S, SM, M, ML, L, LXL.

[Bud Tugly]

Making a shim kit to adjust the stock dimensions or and adjustable stock are good things and pretty much an admission that one size does NOT fit all, but how many models even offer that much?

I had an old beat-up single shot once that just didn't feel right. I couldn't hit well with it and it felt like my neck and arms were in an awkward position firing it.

I took the recoil pad off and that felt better, but I didn't want to shoot it that way. Sawed off about 1/2" off the stock but now I had to sand down the edges of the recoil pad to get it flush with the edges of the shortened stock. AARGH!

I never got it to feel right and out of frustration swapped it for a different model that did.

If you're like me you probably have a bunch of guns but only a couple that just "feel" right and you shoot well. The rest mostly just gather dust and rarely get used.

I wonder if individual gun fit isn't at the core of some of our "I hate model X but love my model Y" arguments that crop up around here.

[TrapperReady]

To some degree, they do. Many manufacturers offer youth models of popular guns. These often do very well for kids, women and smaller-statured shooters.

Also, guns (especially target guns) often come with some level of adjustability. Beretta and Benelli autos come with shim kits and may have a couple sizes of recoil pad. Furthermore, some will have adjustable combs. These are all analagous to the replaceable backstraps on pistols.

Please note that changing LOP on a shotgun is far from having it "fit". If the LOP on a rifle is in the ballpark, you'll probably be able to shoot it pretty well. With a shotgun (pointed, not aimed), you also need to take into consideration things like pitch, cast (on or off), drop at comb, drop at heel, the rotation of the pad, etc...

IMO, having "regular" and "youth" models to get in the ballpark is a good start. After that, if you really want to tweak performance, you need to adjust a number of different variables. Enough so that it would be impossibly costly for manufacturers to make and resellers to stock the different variations.

[Hawk]

I recently called Browning wanting to know which recoil pad was shipped standard on the composite Cynergy and wound up impressed with both the product knowledge of nice young lady on the phone and the degree of adjustability.

The thing is shipped with the "medium" pad which gives 14-1/4" LOP.
The "small" pad gives 13-3/4"
The "large" is 14-3/4"
The included shim is 1/4", so LOP can be adjusted from 13-3/4" through 15" in 1/4" increments. (If one buys the "short" and "long" pads).

The comb is adjustable for height and you can buy both "cast-off" and "cast-on" parts. Fortunately, the height adjustment is a big enough PITA that I don't find myself fiddling with it in lieu of shooting it.

I'd hazard a guess that it doesn't get short enough for what I see in the HD threads but it should cover most everything for field and clay use.

As to why more aren't like that, I gather that the composite Cynergy sold like cold mashed potatoes in the US. It just looks "off" to many. I don't know if it or something similar would have shown up on articles less expensive than the Cynergy had it sold better. One would almost assume that it would if the market was there.

It would seem that shotguns don't come in sizes because we don't want them to. We stay away in droves. See the recent thread on "composite vs wood". Wood could be as adjustable for considerably more money but adjustments to a wood stock undertaken with a saw are hard to undo.

[ArmedBear]

Some guns do come in sizes, and/or with adjustable combs. They tend to be competition guns, though.

http://www.skbshotguns.com/over-and-under/trap/trap.php
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=009B&catalog_=B
http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_competition_guns_main.htm

[auschip]

Great, another thing that stores couldn't/wouldn't carry. I have a hard enough time finding shoes that fit, and they don't cost near as much as firearms.

:D

[ArmedBear]

Last time I was in Texas, it seemed that shoes did cost as much as firearms...

[auschip]

Depends on the shoes and the firearms. I have a couple pairs of custom boots that did cost more then some of my cheaper pistols. :evil:

[Hawk]

Last time I was in Texas, it seemed that shoes did cost as much as firearms...

Here ya go, AB. They're on sale for the next 12 days:
Texas Shoes (http://www.sheplers.com/mens/lucchese/034227.html)

These are the ones I suggest you get for hangin' out at the Beretta gallery:
http://www.sheplers.com/mens/lucchese/034359.html

[Hawk]

Some guns do come in sizes, and/or with adjustable combs. They tend to be competition guns, though.

My "Cynergy of Extreme Composite Adjustability" was a field model and pretty inexpensive as such things go.

Of course, it came from CDNN - that may not be saying much for its long term viability in the product line-up.

[jmr40]

The Steyr Prohunter comes with several spacers that can be used in different combinations to change LOP.

Traditionally with guns with wood stocks having a gunsmith cut the stock to to fit individual owners was very common.