Gun taken (stolen) stories by anti(s)?!?!


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mike7465
July 8, 2008, 10:15 PM
So when ever I hear some anti talking about carrying a pistol they always say someone will come up and take it from you.
So I googled a lot, and I can't find any suck stories.
None.
Pretty weird huh?
I bet when I do find one, it will turn out to be propaganda.

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Reddbecca
July 8, 2008, 10:20 PM
It's not that it can't happen, it's just that nobody's ever been careless enough to actually let it happen.

Harvster
July 8, 2008, 10:22 PM
Check Clayton Cramer's self defense blog. There are some instances of peoples guns being taken away from them. Many more where the BG's gun gets taken.

Yellowfin
July 8, 2008, 10:23 PM
I am equally skeptical of the assertion that open carriers are deliberately targeted by criminals preemptively, which is an argument against OC that gets trumpeted loud and often.

mike7465
July 8, 2008, 10:24 PM
Anti(s) never use logic, just feelings. This is why they will not debate the points with you.

bthest86
July 8, 2008, 10:25 PM
Lots of police have been killed with their own weapon after having it taken from them. It certainly does happen. But not enough for it to justify such a mindset towards carrying a sidearm.

h-word
July 8, 2008, 10:28 PM
Isn't that the whole reason for concealed carry? They can't take your gun if they don't know it's there.

Typical anti whining.

mike7465
July 8, 2008, 10:34 PM
"Yellofin-
I am equally skeptical of the assertion that open carriers are deliberately targeted by criminals presumptively, which is an argument against OC that gets trumpeted loud and often."


This is what lead me on this search. I heard that statement from a few anti(s) about open cary, and wanted to see how often it happened.

psyopspec
July 8, 2008, 10:34 PM
So I googled a lot, and I can't find any suck stories.

Good thing. Those kind of stories aren't welcomed on THR.

mike7465
July 8, 2008, 10:38 PM
Been reading Cramers blog.

Great stuff.

Geno
July 8, 2008, 10:41 PM
Here's a "good" one for the antis: 5 teens get 1 year of probation each for firearms theft. Link: http://www.topix.com/forum/county/ottawa-mi/TMLN95ILP1E4KHVEA

Where is the punishment?!

Doc2005

Weimadog
July 8, 2008, 11:08 PM
My wife has a great response for this.

"Taking a gun away from somebody isn't so easy, and if it is so easy, I'll just take it back from them."

The Crazy Gobbo
July 8, 2008, 11:23 PM
Anti(s) never use logic, just feelings. This is why they will not debate the points with you.

A fine approach to take in an argument is to ask them if they feel that way, if perhaps another event in their life is influencing their judgement, or if they are going to provide you with Uniform Crime Report equivalent statistics/studies that show their opinion to be a factual assertion. Don't be too mean.

Depending on whether or not you have bothered to do your own homework, you may confront them with your blindingly neutral evidence to the contrary, or just ask them to try again when they have bothered to consider that there are two sides to an argument and that they should respect your right to ask for evidence. Grade school applications of fairness should be readily apparent if not intimately comprehended by them.

Depending on your acquaintance you may also take hold of their hands and begin chanting kumbaya in order to help rid them of their fear of theft. Some gushing comments about empathy and feeling the same way they do, for the sake of the children, challenge we all have to face etc... won't go amiss.

There is the off chance this causes them to freak out, the combination of illicit and over the counter drugs circulating in their system causing them to see a massive and ungainly yet strangely intoxicating, heavily armed pink fuzzy panda on the huggy time warpath, but you're armed for just this eventuality. They did cover aborted drum circle gathering escape and evasion at your CCW class, eh? :p

Most people I have met (remember, it's not anecdotal(s), it's data!) who react with hostility toward guns just want a nice, fuzzy answer. Give it to them. The next time you meet you may start them on their path of service for citizenship. Plant the fuzzy seed! :p

Reddbecca
July 8, 2008, 11:28 PM
This is my idea for dealing with antis and their pure feelings tactics. The basis of this idea is based on the full metal jacket design of bullet. You use a logical argument, but you wrap it up in emotion to disguise it.

JackBurtonJr
July 8, 2008, 11:46 PM
There's an easy answer to that which has shut up a number of anti-freedom folk.

It's two parts, and you have to get them to play along with the first part.

Start in telling them about all the websites that feature story after story about successful firearm self defense directly from the news media. There's Cramer's blog, righttokeepandbeararms.com, gunnewsdaily.net, and many more. Show them that the reason for these sites is to give factual "stories" for those just like you, on the pro-freedom side.

And then ask them... "if there were actual stories in the news media that were commonly happening about people who attempted to use a gun for self defense but had the gun taken away from them by the bad guy, wouldn't it make good sense for sites such as Brady to feature them prominently on their website?:

"Shouldn't there be whole websites devoted just to those types of stories?"

"Well... where are they? Why can you go to Brady's site and not find a story archieve such as that? Why do you think that is?"

Let's use the silence of the anti-freedom sites to work for us.

rainbowbob
July 8, 2008, 11:48 PM
"Taking a gun away from somebody isn't so easy, and if it is so easy, I'll just take it back from them."

Beat me to it! I don't know where I first heard this - but I got to use it on an "anti" friend recently (Yes...I DO asociate with them).

The subject came up and he said, "I could never pull a gun on anybody - they'd just take it away from me!"

I laughed and said, "If it's so easy - just take it back!"

He was speechless and looked stunned - like the Earth had shifted orbit and he couldn't figure what had just happened. Priceless!

Cesiumsponge
July 8, 2008, 11:58 PM
Arguments made by the other side are almost always emotional. When you try hammering for some raw sources of data that haven't been spun and weaved by VPC or the like, you won't find any.

Deanimator
July 9, 2008, 12:03 AM
I've been demanding examples from anti-gunners that didn't involve cops trying to apprehend someone for easily TWENTY years. Nobody's EVER been able to.

rainbowbob
July 9, 2008, 12:13 AM
Another one is..."If you pull a gun, the bad guy will get mad an pull out their gun and shoot you!"

justin 561
July 9, 2008, 12:20 AM
Another one is..."If you pull a gun, the bad guy will get mad an pull out their gun and shoot you!"

If it gets to that point you'll already have an advantage having your weapon already drawn.

rainbowbob
July 9, 2008, 12:25 AM
If it gets to that point you'll already have an advantage having your weapon already drawn.

Uhhh...yeah! I guess I should have added a "smilie".

jrfoxx
July 9, 2008, 12:32 AM
Excellent point, JackBurtonJr. If peopel's guns, including those who open carry, were getting snatched even at the rate of 1 per year, I'd think VPc, Brady campaign, GunGuys, etc would be ALL over it.Not only would they feature it on theire website somehwere as proof of how carryign a gun is bad, I'm sure they would make sure the media picked up on the story and ran it too.

justin 561
July 9, 2008, 12:35 AM
Uhhh...yeah! I guess I should have added a "smilie".

I know it was sarcasm, just pointing out what the situation would be.

rainbowbob
July 9, 2008, 12:54 AM
I know it was sarcasm...

Sorry about that! ;)

rainbowbob
July 9, 2008, 12:57 AM
I'm sure they would make sure the media picked up on the story and ran it too.

On the other hand - I'm surprised they don't just make up stories and print 'em anyway! I guess they figure that would be much easier to refute than absurd conclusions based on junk science.

mike101
July 9, 2008, 05:59 AM
"A fine approach to take in an argument is to ask them if they feel that way, if perhaps another event in their life is influencing their judgement, or if they are going to provide you with Uniform Crime Report equivalent statistics/studies that show their opinion to be a factual assertion. Don't be too mean."

It's a reasonable approach, but you are not dealing with reasonable people on the anti-gun blogs (Huffpo/Helmke). Asking them to provide sources for their information will get you ignored. And if you persist, you will be accused of harassment, and you will be called names.

But please do persist. Nothing does our side more good than a bunch of hysterical antis.

Mr White
July 9, 2008, 06:31 AM
I think a lot of the misconception of having one's gun taken away is just people projecting their fears and TV/movie influenced mindsets onto everyone else.

They envision scenarios where they are incapable of pulling the trigger and a tough criminal like they saw on TV grabs their gun and kills them. (most likely after delivering a long and eloquent speech about being prepared or knowng ones limitations) They figure that if they don't have the ability to shoot, and they see themselves as a normal person, then no one except highly trained police, soldiers or Marines will be able to pull the trigger when the situation calls for it. They fail to realize that not everyone is scared and weak; that some of us know deep down that if it ever comes down to it, we won't hesitate to make the choice that keeps us alive.

ptmmatssc
July 9, 2008, 09:49 AM
I saw a news segment recently about a group who did an OC BBQ in a public place ( a park I believe) . Anyway , the reporter had asked about this very thing , having their guns taken from them . Funny thing was that they said :go ahead and try to grab it out of my holster" . He couldn't .

It was simple . The people there had the mind to have good retention holsters to prevent the very thing the antis say would happen . I think more and more people use holsters made for retention , and many more holster manufacturers make their holsters with this in mind .

Anyways, like others have said , you don't hear stories about it since it isn't a common occurrence .

AJ Dual
July 9, 2008, 09:58 AM
Lots of police have been killed with their own weapon after having it taken from them. It certainly does happen. But not enough for it to justify such a mindset towards carrying a sidearm.

And comparing the police and a regular open-carrier is apples and oranges.

The motivations of the criminal in dealing with both will be vastly different. For the criminal, the Police is the first point of contact with the entire apparatus of the state; prosecution, court, and incarceration or other sanctions. The motive and reward (escape) to do something as desperate as try to grab an officers gun is much higher, because the Officer and the police in general will not quit once the initial contact is over, they will pursue the individual indefinitely, call in backup, keep records etc.

The individual armed private citizen can/will call the police, but the risk/reward ratio is vastly different for the criminal, and simply fleeing and selecting another presumably easier victim later makes much more sense.

They may not be moral, but most criminals are (quasi-, at least) rational.

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