[U.S.SFC_RET]

The watch was placed there to give you an idea as to the size of the stump.
Solid oak stump. I used a Sig Sauer P226 to kill this stump. :D



http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/USMILRET/IMAGE_230.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/USMILRET/IMAGE_233-1.jpg

[Funderb]

that looks like a burned oak stump to me!
haha.

more- looks like fun.

[psyopspec]

If the Ents break in the in middle of the night, those bastards won't get far.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Heat treated but solid through and through. :neener:
There is a point. an inexperienced shooter who might find themselves in a tight situation if they ever have to use deadly force. The shooter may not realize that those rounds are going straight through. The BG getting shot at won't probably know it due to the situation that both are in. Rounds will go behind the target and kill or wound bystanders. Bullet selection is key here. Ball ammunition has been well known to be more dangerous because of the fact stated. With Jacketed rounds that open up and cut, mushroom the BG will at least have a better chance of at least knowing he is hit.
I heard somewhere that JHPs are not allowed in New Jersey? If anyone can elaborate on that one for me I would appreciate it.

[lazyeye]

My "fast" 124gr FMJ 9mms will go through 20" of pine.

[Mastiff]

I shot 38 Supers and 7.62x25 Tokarev at a willow tree we were taking down. It was still alive at the bottom, but most of the rest of the tree was dead. It was getting dangerous with the huge branches falling off.
I aimed at a section about the size of my head were a large branch had been cut off even with the trunk. All the bullets hit and dented the wood. Not a single one penetrated, they all bounced off. This really surprised me, especially the Tok as that ammo is supposed to be a great over-penetrator.
FWIW.

[edw8ri]

Was this round JHP or FMJ? It would concern me if JHP would punch all the way through a stump like that.

[kcshooter]

I agree. Overpenetration has always been a consideration of mine. Know what's beyond your target, and try not to hit it. I personally wouldn't carry FMJ for that reason. For those who argue that they are more reliable, if your gun won't feed HP's, it's broke. Fix it before carrying it.

In New Jersey, only active law enforcement can carry hollowpoints. (I think you can buy them and keep them for use at the range or at home but not on a carry weapon.) If you live there, look into expanding full metal jacket rounds (EFMJ).

[RCouch]

Not trying to minimize the effect of the 9mm on the trunk, but if burned (like it appears to be) it will be more brittle and inclined to splinter more. While clearing land in San Marcos TX, I plinked at a number of oaks I was going to remove and none of them splintered like that and did not have that pentration. I was using a Browning 9mm and jacketed slugs.

[machinisttx]

Go back and do it again with a .45 Colt and 255 grain hard cast SWC's at 1200 fps....:D

[U.S.SFC_RET]

You are going to get over penetration with 9mm ball. If you are using ball in your house then there is no protection for the loved ones who are in the other room. www.theboxotruth.com or something to that effect. I am no idiot and spent time inspecting military equipment returning from the middle east. Know your small arms, know your side arms.
I never liked the fact of using a pistol as the primary means of defense in the home. People tend as a whole to think a pistol as a primary defense.
My recommendation is.
12 gauge pump #4 or #3 buck and you pattern that gun for distance with #4 or #3 buck. 1 yard, 5 yards 10 yards.

House dog preferably German Shepherd Dog because they are good with children and when primed out they are protective like nobody's business. Send the dog first and you second.

[mattk]

Sir! How dare you? HOW DARE YOU? Everybody knows that 9mm is worthless and would bounce right off a tree stump without leaving a dent.

On a serious note, any chance you can recover the bullet? Might be neat to have a look at it.

[DrLaw]

Just for comparison, I had some .45 ACP 230 FMJ at a bowling pin shoot the other day. Pins were set at 50 yards. We had to pick up the pins we shot for the next guy. When I picked up the pins, I could not find a hole anywhere in the first one. I saw a dent, but no hole. That makes me believe that the dang thing just had to bounce off. :eek:

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[doc540]

"My recommendation is.
12 gauge pump #4 or #3 buck and you pattern that gun for distance with #4 or #3 buck. 1 yard, 5 yards 10 yards."

I respectfully disagree.

If one MUST choose a 12ga for home defense, #6's are the largest size shot I would use. Anything larger is prone to overpenetrate and involve others which you didn't intend to involve.

#3 and #4 buck at close range will shoot through not just an interior wall but an exterior wall of many materials softer than brick. That size buck could even get your neighbors involved in addition to any other family members inside your home.

That's my understanding of shotguns for home defense (which I don't recomend, but that's another discussion).

[The Bushmaster]

You must have some really soft oak where your from...I doubt that a 9mm X 19 can do that to a real oak. My 25 yard pistol range is amongst live oaks and only one of my handgun bullets has yet gone through and through any of them even the small one about that size as you pictured. My .357 magnum from a Ruger 6.5" will, but my 9mm X 19's? Not so far.

Army huh...I didn't know Army knew how to tell "sea stories"...:D

[TimboKhan]

Having been shot with a FMJ 9mm round, SFC is correct, it will zing right through you. The only reason the guy behind me didn't get hit was because of the angle of the bullet. I have no reason to doubt that had it hit him, he would have been badly wounded as well.

As far as penetration goes, I for one do not particularly worry about it. House walls are not bowling pins, treestumps or anything particularly substantial. A .22 will penetrate through a house wall and retain enough injury to badly would or perhaps even kill someone on the other side. I am of the opinion that knowing what your round will do is smart, worrying about something that is virtually impossible to control is a waste of time. That doesn't mean that I am advocating using a 7mmRemMag as a home defense round, but it does mean that I am not worrying myself over whether or not I should use a .357, a .45, a 10mm, a .40 or a 9mm, #6 buck over #4 buck or anything else.

I would also add that it is possible to be at close range and miss with a shotgun. Not really all that applicable to SD, but my buddy and I were at the range a couple of months ago and I watched this guy fire from the hip at a bunch of soda cans on the ground about 15 feet in front of him and he missed every one of them with three shots. That's honestly one of the most amazing things I have ever seen, period. I mean, I know that a shotgun requires aiming and a good deal more effort than the movies would have you believe, but even from the hip I simply cannot fathom how he missed them all three times.

[callgood]

Sir,
At some point you may want to rid yourself of that stump. Add one measly millimeter to your nine, and you can remove the stump and most likely pull up the roots as well.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/callgood/6102pix859080562.jpg
S&W Model 610-2

Just be careful the roots haven't spread to your foundation. When they come up your house may shift off your property.:D

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I will stick with the #4 buck.

Trust me that is an oak and that is cheap winchester white ball.

It was more than several rounds that went through that oak. I never seen soft oak in my life, I am from the country. With the exception of SM who is a member I can probably out country most of you in a heart beat. ;)

[hankdatank1362]

I can probably out country most of you in a heart beat.


Oh, I'd take that bet. :cool:

[La Pistoletta]

Hey, I'm one thousand miles and an Atlantic Ocean away from civilized society, do I win? ;)

[Double Naught Spy]

That is one old cracked and crazed "solid" stump.

[ExSoldier]

I can't stand the "BOX O TRUTH" except that it's fun.

It bears no validity in self defense issues. Unless you're attacked by gallon jugs of water.

As long as my primary carry environment is South Florida, I'll stick to my MagSafe loads and RBCD (http://www.rbcd.net). Otherwise my loads are Winchester +P's 124gr JHP or maybe Cor-Bon Duplex in colder climates.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

That is one old cracked and crazed "solid" stump.

Penetration was about 4 inches on a couple of rounds, no more than 5" at the most.

[rhubarb]

Wimpy oak.

Some friends and I were shooting a couple of years ago and I was going to show how well I could shoot by shooting a 1" diameter mesquite limb off with my 9mm. I shot, it moved, but there was no hole in sight. We cut into it with a machete and found the bullet right in the middle. One of the guys decided to show me how the manly 45 LC would massacre the measly mesquite with its big hard-cast bullet. The shot left a gray smear on the trunk of a mesquite. No penetration.

It's hard to find a straight enough mesquite to cut a board out of, but you could cut a big enough slab to make body armor.

[Confederate]

Very impressive, especially the muzzle blast! Look what it did to that stump, and from 35 feet away!

[novaDAK]

I can't stand the "BOX O TRUTH" except that it's fun.

It bears no validity in self defense issues. Unless you're attacked by gallon jugs of water.

Check out the earlier Box of Truth on that website that shows how many pieces of sheetrock (drywall) standard rounds will penetrate. Divide by two and you get the number of actual walls it would penetrate in your home assuming it doesn't hit anything hard like furniture or studs.