I have a question for LEOs, their families, and those who know LEOs.


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cambeul41
July 9, 2008, 09:35 AM
It seems to me that the opinions of working LEOs toward CCW is of more concern to us than are the politically influenced pronouncements of appointed officials.

I find myself wondering what percentage of the spouses and other family members of LEOs have, or are encouraged to get, CCWs. I would imagine that that percentage would be indicative of what those LEOs really think.

Is that percentage significantly higher or lower than the percentage of CCW holders in the general population -- or is it about the same?

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Eric F
July 9, 2008, 09:47 AM
I have lost of LEO friends some married some ccw some family members CCW some dont. All in all I think it is mostly random.

Harvster
July 9, 2008, 10:06 AM
I would venture to guess that the number of LEO family members that carry is probably a little higher than average simply because there is more exposure to guns and perhaps some more familiarity with the concept in general. However, I know of LEOs who adamantly support the notion that only police officers should be able to carry firearms.

LtShortcut
July 9, 2008, 10:44 AM
I'm a MP officer that encourages everyone to ccw. I'd love my wife to learn the basics and carry a revolver, but she has no interest.

Robert14
July 9, 2008, 11:06 AM
I am LE & my immediate family has the carry permits. That being said, I would not charge or give a citizen a rough time over carrying a weapon without one, even though state law requires the carry permit. It would be a misdemeanor offense in Tennessee (unless used in the commision of a crime) and we are given some levity in how we handle misdemeanor offenses. When you stop someone, you can tell if they are up to no good or not. Cannot say the same for the younger officers fresh out of training. A lot of LE families carry, not because of the exposure to weapons, but because some of the criminals we put away may look us up upon release and our families make great targets for their revenge.

WC145
July 9, 2008, 11:20 AM
I'm a LEO, I have one although I don't need it, my father has one, my ex-wife went to the class but never got her permit. My current wife isn't interested in carrying but she does know how to use my guns and how to access them.

I have no problems with concealed carry permits. IMO, if you are a competent, law abiding citizen, you should be able to carry (within the law - no felons, crazies, etc).

Leadbutt
July 9, 2008, 11:25 AM
Before I retired my thoughts on CCW was this,, if you jumped through the hoops to get one then you where a good guy/gal until proven other wise

Lets see three wifes and only one got and carried, the other two whated nothing to do with it.

All my sisters know how to use firearms and one or two of them hunt. Several brother in laws carry, even my 85 year old mom carrys a Bernidelli{sp} 22 short auto, for keeping them damn dogs out of her trash :p

TallPine
July 9, 2008, 11:36 AM
we are given some levity in how we handle misdemeanor offenses

I'm glad to hear that. People take things way too seriously these days :)

A-190
July 9, 2008, 12:02 PM
Retired here.
I have no problem with the general population carrying. Those that will take the time to follow the law, get the training, get the proper paperwork, will not and have never been a problem for the cops.
Our problems have always been and will always be those who don't follow the law.

Never could understand the myth that lawful CCW's will cause blood in the streets.

Now regarding the family. Wife never was interested in the handguns. Her favorite for home defense was and still is the twice barrel shorty.:evil:

Son has a CC , middle daughter just back from IRAQ has no problems with guns, youngest daughter, I shudder her being around any type of tool......:what:

Old Dog
July 9, 2008, 01:30 PM
While I do not wholly disagree with this statement
It seems to me that the opinions of working LEOs toward CCW is of more concern to us than are the politically influenced pronouncements of appointed officials.I'd submit that one will find in existence vastly differing attitudes, depending on region and other demographic factors, among the nation's law enforcement community. Additionally, no matter what an individual officer's attitude toward legal civilian carry, most officers will go along with their states' laws.

Ultimately, it is the actions, and the politically-influenced attitudes, of both appointed and elected officials that citizens need to be far more concerned over rather than the opinions of their local constabulary.

In this state (the original shall-issue state), citizens with CPLs have been a fact of life for so long, most LEOs have never known any different system and have had to deal with the concept for their entire careers, hence the (usually) calm acceptance of lawful concealed carry (now, open carry up here is another story).

Virtually all of the guys (and gals) I work with encourage their spouses, significant others and children to at least consider the option to carry.

Those LEOs of my acquaintance who have seen the worst and most violent examples of human behavior toward others fully comprehend and support the need for citizens to be able to carry a firearm for defensive purposes.

At any rate, my wife has a CPL and routinely carries. My oldest daughter (now living out of state where she cannot carry) enjoys shooting, thoroughly understands the need for young women to be able to defend themselves by every available means, would carry if she could ... my youngest daughter (still a teen) loves to shoot and bug me to take her to the range (and wants her first carry pistol to be a SIG P-228 like her mom's).

CountGlockula
July 9, 2008, 01:53 PM
Most LEOs don't want to take their work home with them, therefore CCWs are out of the dinner table conversation.

Also, most LEOs that go into the academy are firearms illiterate-which is a big plus to their firearms instructors. Therefore, have no concepts of CCW in the early stages of their career. Until they've added more experience in their belt; and realize that they've met the worst of worst type of individuals out there...they see no need of CCWs for law abiding citizens.

Just my thoughts, so don't take this as golden. If I offend any LEOs out there, I apologize...but it's just my critique.

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 9, 2008, 02:00 PM
I'm also an MP and soon to be civilian LEO, and I CCW and encourage everyone I know to as well.

wheelgunslinger
July 9, 2008, 02:29 PM
Tallpine beat me to the punch on that one:
I'm glad to hear that. People take things way too seriously these days

Lots of LEOs in my family. I'm the only non-leo who carries.

caltek1911
July 9, 2008, 02:41 PM
My brother is a LEO, carries off-duty, and believes all law-abiding citizens should carry. His wife does not (mostly neutral but coming around), my younger brother and dad both have CCWs, but I don't as I'm not allowed in CA and I'm usually not in PA long enough to get it.

LiquidTension
July 9, 2008, 03:09 PM
I'm a LEO. Also a CWP instructor.

MD_Willington
July 9, 2008, 04:11 PM
1 ex RCMP - no opinion on ATC in Canada, yet has no problems with law abiding residents owning any firearm.

1 ex MP - my grand father, same opinion as above.

Locally, 2 Moscow Idaho police officers, 1 town Marshal. They both don't seem to have any problems with CC or firearms ownership

jaak
July 9, 2008, 04:19 PM
i have family members, by marriage, that are or were former law enforcement. they are ignorant about CCW and gun laws in general. i tried to tell one of them that my friend had silencers for almost all his weapons, and he tried to call the atf on my buddy... he didnt even know the guy.

every chance i get, i make fun of him. he is one of my least favorite people. actually, i cant stand his entire family(dads wife)

sarge83
July 9, 2008, 05:09 PM
My brother in law is a leo. He started as a patrolman and worked his way up to chief of the dept. 25+ yrs experience. When KY was debating concealed carry permits, he testified before the state legislature committees for concealed carry and directly contradicted the statement of the states 3 large city police chiefs and made them look like the bumbling, politician butt kissing fools they are.

In one case right before the legislature passed concealed carry he was asked to address a local woman's club and after the speech he was being questioned by the women. The leader of the club made the statement, "of course you are going to be opposing the proposed concealed carry legislation..." He replied absolutely NOT. Which stunned her, but brought little reaction from the other women.

He told the group that in the county we live that over the years he had pulled over many people who were carrying for protection or that he strongly suspected was carrying and he did not arrest them for carrying when they had only been speeding or pulled over for some minor infraction. As he said this he was watching the reaction of the women in the crowd and said about 70% of them begin to nervously clutch their purses close to them. He figured if he had searched the purses he would have found several illegally carried handguns just from their reactions.:uhoh:

After concealed carry passed in KY he became an instructor for the course and encourages concealed carry when speaking to civic groups.

Old Dog
July 9, 2008, 07:24 PM
"CountGlockula" said
Most LEOs don't want to take their work home with them, therefore CCWs are out of the dinner table conversation.

Also, most LEOs that go into the academy are firearms illiterate-which is a big plus to their firearms instructors. Therefore, have no concepts of CCW in the early stages of their career. Until they've added more experience in their belt; and realize that they've met the worst of worst type of individuals out there...they see no need of CCWs for law abiding citizens.
And I'd have to disagree with all four of his basic statements. Remember, because one may be able to make certain presumtive statements about how things may be in California ... doesn't mean that goes for most other parts of this country, particularly where the majority doesn't have to live daily with the curse of urban, liberal attitudes , where also most children grow up without exposure to (legal) firearms in their household and the prevailing local culture.

MedWheeler
July 9, 2008, 10:37 PM
In reviewing the replies here, I'd say that both the OP and "CountGlockula" are out of touch with the majority of the LE community. I'm a former LEO who never had, nor knew any other LEOs who had, an issue with private citizen's exercising of the Second Amendment rights. Florida had just passed its landmark CCF law when I entered the field, making it the first "shall-issue" state, and the media had been predicting streets awash with the blood of the innocents. None of us in the LEO community feared this, nor did we ever observe any hint of it. Also, in my academy class of 44, two were previously un-exposed to firearms on a personal basis. That is hardly a majority in that sampling.
Once on the streets, I treated the very few CCF holders I encountered with the same respect due anyone else in their given situation. In fact, I can only recall two, both traffic violators who offered the courtesy of informing me they were carrying. I checked permits, but not their weapons. I can't recall specifically if they were cited, but the majority of those who were cooperative and courteous with me were not, so they probably weren't, either.

Edit: In reviewing the opening post, I see that the OP did not actually render an opinion as to whether or not the general "rank-and-file" members of the LEO community support private CCW practice or dislike it. Therefore, I cannot say he is "out of touch" with that community.

jaholder1971
July 9, 2008, 10:50 PM
My late father was a cop, he supported CCW but never got to see it,he died in 2001 and KS didn't get it until 2007.

He wasn't legally allowed to carry post retirement, but it was an unwritten thing that retired LEO's in Topeka could CCW without worry or prosecution: No cop nor porsecutor was going to bust a retired cops' chops over carrying his old duty piece, especially since the department either allowed the officer to buy it at trade value or it was given to them on retirement, depending on the labor agreement at the time.

I know a number of retired and full time cops giving CCW classes.

Erik
July 10, 2008, 01:06 AM
"I find myself wondering what percentage of the spouses and other family members of LEOs have, or are encouraged to get, CCWs. I would imagine that that percentage would be indicative of what those LEOs really think."

I disagree. For example, I know anti-2A LEOs whose spouses carry; they justify it as being necessary because of their status as LEOs.

Erik, who puts the number of pro-2A LEOs at approximately 85% in his experience.

sacp81170a
July 10, 2008, 06:39 AM
Erik, who puts the number of pro-2A LEOs at approximately 85% in his experience.

I would agree with a number in that range. I'm an LEO and a CCW instructor, so you can guess my attitude. My wife has her CCW, the wife every officer I know (who is married) has a CCW. I'm not saying that's a general circumstance, just that it's true in my small circle of acquaintances.

ronnieevans40
July 11, 2008, 12:57 AM
I am a LEO in AZ and I carry off duty. That is a personnel thing. The CCW at least gives some degree of background and training and can help your basic civilian. Most honest people who carry have a CCW. Those who are not honest will have a gun no matter what. I am one that feels guns are not the issue. It is people. Guns do not kill. People kill. An gun left where a child can get it is not the problem it is the person who left it out. England has very tough gun laws so of course now they are dealing with knives. Take away guns and they will be after golf clubs LOL.....My friends all carry with CCW, my girl could care less, and I for one support the individual right to keep and carry with the proper training and a CCW

armoredman
July 30, 2008, 12:57 PM
I have been wearing the badge for 6.5 years. I carried legally since I was 16, and CCW since the law went into effect. I have met very very few LE who dislike CCW permit holders, or, in this state, law abiding citizens who open carry lawfully. I reccomend CCW, but open carry is certainly a lawful option here in AZ.
In all my time here, I have met one LE who stated semiauto military style firearms and high capacity magazines should be restricted from civilian purchase/use, and even that one was pro CCW.


Oh, and yes, my wife has her CCW permit, and regularly carries her CZ-2075 RAMI 9mm.

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