Why no love for S&W poly autos?


PDA






rocinante
July 9, 2008, 08:48 AM
The only S&W poly autos that seem to get good reviews are the new M&P. What did they do so wrong with the Sigmas and the Walther hybrids and the rest of their poly offerings? Are they that bad?

If you enjoyed reading about "Why no love for S&W poly autos?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
SHOOT1SAM
July 9, 2008, 08:52 AM
I absolutely love my .40 Sigma VE.

Sam

Eric F
July 9, 2008, 08:55 AM
I had a walther s&w and liked it but the problem is that it was not a fully suported chamber and I had a side case blow out. I am no big fan of chambers that are not fully suported. The sigma was nothing more than expensive copy of glock to most folks. M&P is just really late on the sceene for polly guns and again too expensive for todays economy. Actually now that I think of it smith auto loaders as a whole are just not really popular. The all metal guns got a nich in Law enforcement because they had better safety features than 1911's and hi-powers in the early days of "lets get rid of revolvers"

Joseph85
July 9, 2008, 09:16 AM
I'd say from the constant and neverending posts on the M&P plastic pistol on THR and other forums, yeah, it's a popular and well accepted autoloader.

The Sigma has never gained popularity for two reasons: It's low priced so people generally think "low price equals low quality" and it has a 1,000 pound trigger pull.

As for the metal framed Smith & Wesson autoloaders, they're double action/single action. The striker fired and double action only designs are what's selling now. The only company that seems to get away with DA/SA is Sig and to a lessor extent Beretta with the 92 or M9 series.

As for the price, give or take, the M&P costs the same as a Glock or Springfield Armory XD. The Sigma quite a bit more less.

Just my own personal observations.

Disaster
July 9, 2008, 09:37 AM
Lets see....Sigma...bad trigger doomed it. Walther...selling about as well as most Walthers sell (Walthers are expensive and this limits their popularity.) M&P...good mix of good reviews and value priced marketing.

esq_stu
July 9, 2008, 09:49 AM
Had a Sigma (I did not pay for it). Sold it fast. Trigger was the worst I've ever tried. Workmanship was terrible. I never bothered to shoot it.

skywarp_
July 9, 2008, 09:52 AM
The stigma of the sigma follows them.

legion3
July 9, 2008, 10:00 AM
leaving the sigma out of it...are you kidding?
The M&P groupies take every chance to peddle the greatness of the gun. It seems to have lots of love...this police force is using it...that police force is using it...etc, etc.

Now Glock guys don't do this you understand. ;)

Storm
July 9, 2008, 10:04 AM
As for the metal framed Smith & Wesson autoloaders, they're double action/single action. The striker fired and double action only designs are what's selling now.

Defintely true. That said, I also see a lot of folks starting to really appreciate the quality of the older Smith metal frame guns. With all of the police trade-ins there seems to be a resurgence in interest in these guns, myself included. They have stellar reputations for reliability and service. They may not have the high tech aspects of today's polymer guns, but they are tried and true workhorses that have proven themselves with decades of meritorious service. Few semi-autos have served as well.

As to the Smith/Walther guns, cost defeintely had something to do with it, and if someone was going to drop the bucks they'd go with the Walther. It's a shame as owning both SW/Walthers and Walthers I consider the Smith version to be pretty much equal to the full Walther. Many Walther fans wouldn't agree with that, but having shot both side-by-side I don't see a lot of difference, and if you want a .45 as I did the Smith is the only game in town.

I've also heard some say that Smith didn't give the SW99 the marketing attention that it should have and that the introduction of the M&P interfered with the SW99 marketing efforts. I'm not so sure of that as the two guns don't really seem to have overlapped each other in timing.

The Sigma has had a bad rap since day one, especially as it was compared to the Glock, and that crappy trigger. I've heard that the gun has improved greatly but that the trigger still stinks. That said, my last trip to the outdoor range I witnessed a shooter doing some incredible work with a Sigma (a .40, I think) out at 85 yards.

wally
July 9, 2008, 10:43 AM
Don't forget the ill will generated by the previous owner's deal with the Clinton's.

New management has repudiated the deal, and what more can they do to PO the anti's than offer a rebate of two free hi-cap mags with an M&P or Sigma purchase (two free crippled 10-rounders for the non-Free states) so you end up with the pistol and four mags (three spares).

The metal S&W autos are fine if you like DA/SA guns. Model 59 was my first auto loader, traded it once I learned I'd never like DA/SA operation. Regret getting rid of it though.

Current production Sigmas are very good for the money if you can get by the trigger, lousy by most plastic pistol standards, but decent if compared to say Taurus revolvers firing DA. If you fire the Sigma, you really wanted to :)

--wally.

romeo212000
July 9, 2008, 10:48 AM
The sigma has a horrible trigger. They may have made some corrections to the new ones being produced but i know the old ones had a lot of firing pins and springs breaking.

FEG
July 9, 2008, 10:56 AM
For lack of a better description, there is also the issue of consumer expectations.

Let's say Ferrari started making pickup trucks. Nothing too fancy, just pretty solid half ton trucks. Would someone in the market for a pickup consider Ferrari? Where is the nearest Ferrari dealership to them, even?

I think this is part of it. When I think S&W, I primarily think of revolvers. When I go to most gun stores, they may have, at best, one S&W pistol for every three or four S&W revolvers.

skywarp_
July 9, 2008, 01:08 PM
Taurus sells cheaper guns with better triggers.

Disaster
July 9, 2008, 01:25 PM
Taurus sells cheaper guns with better triggers.

Definitely cheaper...not sure about the "better triggers." Care to name an example?

S&W is definitely one of the quality manufacturers. You can see it in the machinings. Taurus machined parts have tool marks and curled pieces of steel left on parts. I know. I have one. If you get a good Taurus it can be a great gun. However, you are more likely to get one with issues than you would if you bought a S&W, Beretta or Sig.

Mortech
July 9, 2008, 01:39 PM
I love the M&P , as for the older 2nd and 3rd gen S&Ws I grab all I can afford . Some how I just can't let my self buy a Sigma , its that damned trigger , sometimes I feel I have to use a comealong to shoot one .

ColinthePilot
July 9, 2008, 01:46 PM
A Friend bought a sigma in 9mm. He hated the trigger but did a trigger job and now the trigger is great, but the 1-2 jams per magazine has him wanting to sell now. He also walked away from the range the other day with green hands because his green polymer frame color was wearing off on his hands.

Storm
July 9, 2008, 02:09 PM
I love the M&P

I do also, and I think that the gun gets one heck of a lot of respect.

as for the older 2nd and 3rd gen S&Ws I grab all I can afford .

I'm in that mode as well having just picked up a 645, 3913, 5943 SSV, 5906, 4586 and a 4516-1 if it's still there when I get back to the shop. The police trade-ins clean up wonderfully with a little scour pad and steel wool or light buffing.

rocinante
July 9, 2008, 02:39 PM
As the OP I exempted the M&P from the no love list. So far it seems to be an unqualified winner. When I move to poly world it is definitely on my short list of pistols to consider.

I have a S&W 915 and love it. Even for the economy model I think it is a damn fine handgun. Reliable, accurate, eats and fires anything. I want a 5906 to go with it and share magazines.

So Sigma is the sour? The trigger can not be ignored.

falkon
July 9, 2008, 02:46 PM
I hate to say it but I think alot of it is that with the exception of the M&P, S&W has a habit of making god-awfully ugly poly autos. Not only is the sigma ugly, but it's cheap, and it looks cheap/feels cheap.

Storm
July 9, 2008, 02:50 PM
As the OP I exempted the M&P from the no love list. So far it seems to be an unqualified winner. When I move to poly world it is definitely on my short list of pistols to consider.

Sorry, I missed that! As to the M&P, Smith got this one exactly right.

I have a S&W 915 and love it. Even for the economy model I think it is a damn fine handgun. Reliable, accurate, eats and fires anything. I want a 5906to go with it and share magazines.

Yup, gotta love those common magazines. As to the economy models, I was looking at a 457 and I was very impressed. Maybe a bit more plastic than I'd like to see on a Smith, but they are fine guns. I'll opt for the 4516-1 instead, but that 457 (or 908) is still on my mind. What I'd also like is a primo Model 39.

As to Smith and politics, I think there can be no doubt that the Clinton compromise hurt them and the foreign ownership did as well. I really hate seeing locks on their revlvers (all of my Smith revolvers are pre-lock) and I was so danged happy when I got my M&P .357 sans lock. I think more than anything it's the principle of the thing.

One way or the other I certainly see a resurgence in S&W and I suspect a good part of it has been thanks to the M&P as well as all of the police trade-in 2nd and 3rd Gen guns that have and still are hitting the market. Hopefully not all of those departments are going to Glocks :)

SHOOT1SAM
July 9, 2008, 02:58 PM
As previously posted, I love my .40 Sigma VE. I've never shot a different one, so I honestly do not know what the rap on the trigger is. Maybe I just got super lucky, but my trigger is no problem at all.

Sam

jmr40
July 9, 2008, 02:59 PM
Early Sigmas not only had terrible triggers they had a habit of tearing up I had one in 1998 that required 5 months and 3 trips back to Smith before they gave up and replaced the gun.

I think they have got everything right on the M&P and I may buy one.

mr.72
July 9, 2008, 03:05 PM
A Friend bought a sigma in 9mm. He hated the trigger but did a trigger job and now the trigger is great, but the 1-2 jams per magazine has him wanting to sell now.

Nice job on the trigger, eh?

Leave them alone and they are 100% reliable. I have cautioned people against modifying the triggers because doing so not only voids the warranty but can affect reliability. The most effective trigger mod may result in light primer strikes, and the more common/easy mods may result in the sear not resetting so you may never get the trigger to break on a follow up shot. This is all ok for a range queen but not for a SD weapon.

I guess I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I hate that SA hair-trigger on 1911 type guns. I think it's a good thing to have to really mean it when you pull the trigger on a SD gun.

lazyeye
July 9, 2008, 03:06 PM
My college doommate had a .40Sigma. The trigger was heavy, and it was hard to control.
But if someone offered me one at a good price I'd buy one :D

basicblur
July 9, 2008, 03:55 PM
As a long time “student” of Sigmas, I think they originally started getting a bum rap by the Glock fans (how dare they copy a Glock)! If you get one of the later “E” (enhanced) models I see no problem with ‘em, and (from research) I doubt the earlier models had any more problems than Glocks etc.
I checked out the M&P since everybody raves about it, and I gotta confess I just don’t get it-kinda looks like a “gussied up” Sigma to me?
I know…I had a lot of folks in here tell me why the M&P was better than the Sigma, but other than a couple of possible points (out of around 10), I really don’t see it (if the Sigma fits my hand, why do I need changeable backstraps)?

Anywho…lots of folks gripe about the trigger but I have no problem with it, especially in a defensive weapon. I’ve seen way too many folks come to a gunsmith wanting to do some trigger work, and after he checks it out and asks ‘em what they’re using it for (self-defense) he advises they leave it alone. Sounds like wise words to me, as I think there are way too many folks looking for a hair trigger on a defensive weapon.
Personally I have no problem with the Sigma trigger-I pull it, the gun goes BANG, and the groups are tight (no FTF or FTE so far).

Not to pick on Glocks :D (never an option with me since they don’t fit my hand), but when doing my research before buying my first Sigma, I recall a couple of things the Sigma had over the all-mighty Glock, the most important being it was designed for a 40S&W so subsequent calibers were overbuilt. From what I understand, the Glock was designed as a 9mm and the subsequent calibers were built from the 9mm design-I think I like the Sigma approach better.

Course, I am a pragmatist, which puts me at odds with the majority of the populace.
I also come to the ‘Net looking for information, not affirmation…which really makes me a one percenter!

mr.72
July 9, 2008, 04:24 PM
+1 basicblur. well said.

makes me wonder if Ruger is going to get this kind of backlash over their overt copy of a Kel-Tec.

FLA2760
July 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
"I absolutely love my .40 Sigma VE".
A big +1 to that. I like my 40VE so much I got the 9VE too.

FLA2760
July 9, 2008, 04:47 PM
"Taurus sells cheaper guns with better triggers". But their customer service is the worst and Smith CS is great.

mr.72
July 9, 2008, 05:53 PM
A Sigma is cheaper than a Taurus...

FieroCDSP
July 9, 2008, 07:15 PM
The customer service quality and "Made in the USA" did it for me. I bought a Sigma as my first handgun, and switched up to the M&P a few months later when my dealer started handing them out at $399. I trust the Sigma to go bang when I need it (backup HD gun), but my M&P is my favorite. Almost 3K rounds now, no recent failures (those failures being on hand-loads), and the trigger is sweet for a factory job. It doesn't compare to the Burwell triggers, but it's nice.

The only complaint I have about the M&P series is that I can't afford more of them. :D

M&PVolk
July 9, 2008, 08:22 PM
I was surprised when I went shopping for my carry gun that S&W didn't get more love. I picked up an M&P at the GS and it fit my hand great. That combined with the rebate/mags and lifetime warranty sent me over the edge.

At my CCW course, the instructor and several others kind of bashed on S&W, but outside of those with 1911's, I outshot everyone else with my M&P. There was one student with a Sigma, and she shot it quite well. I had the instructor check out the M&P after the class, and he did concede that it was better than he thought.

I say get what you want and be happy with your choice. The Sigma is a good gun for the price and the M&P, IMO, is every bit the gun that Glock, XD's, or H&K's are. I guarantee that if you ever have to use either in a SD situation, the BG isn't going to know the difference.

varoadking
July 9, 2008, 08:35 PM
As to the M&P, Smith got this one exactly right.

I don't care for the droopy dustcover...that alone keeps me from buying one...

kennedy
July 9, 2008, 08:36 PM
love my all metal DAO .40 smith, M&P 40 next on my to buy list, shot a friends sigma, and it felt to light.

makarovnik
July 9, 2008, 09:02 PM
M&P is a good gun. Dare I say better the the more expensive Springfield SD line. Why are the plastic Springfield's so expensive? Could it be to pay for all the over advertising last year?

blkbrd666
July 9, 2008, 09:18 PM
Sigma ugly...like Glock.

mbott
July 9, 2008, 09:21 PM
VAROADKING states
I don't care for the droopy dustcover...that alone keeps me from buying one.

And just which Glock had issues because the dust cover rail will not support the weight of a M3-type light?

--
Mike

varoadking
July 10, 2008, 07:35 AM
And just which Glock had issues because the dust cover rail will not support the weight of a M3-type light?

Dunno...and what does have to do with the fact the M&P dustcover is droopy?

Personally, I have no need for an M3-type light or any other such do-dads, so your question is lost on me...

jlh26oo
July 10, 2008, 07:50 AM
I thought everyone LOVED Sigmas? Isn't "Sig" short for Sigma, because all I hear is how great they are, how reliable, ergonomic, accurate etc. I'd say there is MUCH love for Sigmas! :uhoh:

mbott
July 10, 2008, 07:59 AM
Dunno...and what does have to do with the fact the M&P dustcover is droopy?

I suppose it shows that "looks" are less important than the inability to "function". As to being droopy, mine don't appear to be so inflicted, but the next time I think about it with a straight-edge handy, I'll check.

--
Mike

Ske1etor
July 10, 2008, 08:43 AM
I had a Sigma 9VE and it performed flawlessly. Sold it to my dad because I wanted to graduate up to a .45 and couldn't afford to upgrade without selling the Sigma. He purchased it from me and it has never failed on him. Sure, the trigger is heavy, and it may not be the most accurate firearm out there but dammit, it is better than a HiPoint.

ilsrwy27
July 10, 2008, 12:37 PM
Earlier in this thread someone said they would buy a Sigma if they found one for a good price.
FYI at the last gun show I went to I spotted them for $239 which I think is very affordable.

I have a M&P 9c and I really like it. The trigger on it was not the greatest as it was slightly gritty/inconsistent.
Things have improved a lot after 1000 rounds though, so I'll hold off a little longer before deciding if it will get a trigger job or not.
It's a great gun regardless and I am planning on buying a second M&P soon.

Storm
July 10, 2008, 01:33 PM
I don't care for the droopy dustcover...that alone keeps me from buying one...

I'm not familiar with that issue. What's up with that?

[FH]K96
July 10, 2008, 03:53 PM
Defintely true. That said, I also see a lot of folks starting to really appreciate the quality of the older Smith metal frame guns. With all of the police trade-ins there seems to be a resurgence in interest in these guns, myself included. They have stellar reputations for reliability and service. They may not have the high tech aspects of today's polymer guns, but they are tried and true workhorses that have proven themselves with decades of meritorious service. Few semi-autos have served as well.

I agree. I have been so impressed with an old 39 and newer 908 that I am thinking selling one of my 1911s and picking up 4506 or 4566.

I have shot a Sigma a long time ago... I only recall it having fairy good ergonomics.

mr.72
July 10, 2008, 04:27 PM
$239 for a new Sigma is a no-brainer. Last gun show I went to they were more like $299-349. Locally they are available for $329 and there is a $30 or 2-free-mags rebate. I was quite pleased to get mine when they had a $50 PLUS 2-free-mags rebate.

Now maybe for $500 it's not the best choice. Maybe for $400 there is something better. But for sub-$300 after rebates, it's very hard to argue that a Sigma is not just about the best deal out there if it meets your features/specs requirements. Of course if you are looking for an aluminum frame single stack .45 then it's not for you :)

basicblur
July 10, 2008, 05:26 PM
$239 for a new Sigma is a no-brainer.

Ain't it though?
I just sold 2 never-fired Sigmas (SW9VE/melonite & SW40VE two-tone) for $225 each.
Yeah, yeah...I can hear the peanut gallery now: "if you love Sigmas so much why did you sell 'em?"
Well I don't "love" em (they're inanimate objects and I'm a pragmatist), but at one time I had 6 of 'em! I’m down to 2 now-if I sell the used one I’ll definitely keep the last one.
Back when I bought mine, S&W was giving away some darn nice range bags, travel duffles, police bags, etc and all of ‘em were well under $300. I basically got a nice set of travel luggage fer buying the Sigmas and ended up selling my first two for a profit (and still have the luggage) to former co-workers interested in inexpensive self-defense weapons.

I’ve since moved on to fancier, and unfortunately more ‘spensive stuff, but I’m not going to say nicer since I have no problems with the Sigma.

The Lone Haranguer
July 10, 2008, 10:19 PM
For those who think the M&P is a "gussied-up Sigma" - have you actually tried examining, handling and - if possible - shooting one? I suspect you didn't. As for myself, I was very impressed with the full-size 9mm I shot as a rental, enough to purchase a 9mm compact, which has functioned perfectly from the very first round.

I am a fan of the old-style, metal-frame Smiths as well, my favorite being the accurate, light and slim 3913.

basicblur
July 10, 2008, 10:31 PM
For those who think the M&P is a "gussied-up Sigma" - have you actually tried examining, handling...

Actually, I have-AFA shooting one, nope.
After handling/examining it (and being unimpressed) I saw no reason to shoot one as I have no complaints 'bout how the Sigma shoots and groups (and fer ‘bout half the price, donchaknow)!

Now I'll grant ya the M&P is probably a fine pistol, but I just can't see why I'd want to pay more money for a gussied up Sigma?

But like I said…I’m a pragmatist!

Tom Servo
July 10, 2008, 11:30 PM
For those who think the M&P is a "gussied-up Sigma" - have you actually tried examining, handling and - if possible - shooting one? I suspect you didn'
I'm not a fan of the Sigma because of the trigger. Other than that, no complaints. They're quite reliable from what I've seen.

The M&P, however, is a nice gun. It's the only polymer striker-fired pistol that I'd say has a good trigger. It has a clean, predictable break, and the ergonomics are excellent.

Of course, all my Smiths are all-steel, but I've been tempted by the M&P.

1911user
July 11, 2008, 01:42 AM
I had a sigma (new generation) and am glad I don't now. S&W really messed up the trigger pull on it. I understand why they did it (make it reliable with +p+ ammo). Then the M&P came out with the same hinged trigger arrangement and had to beat off comparisons to the sigma. The 2 pistols are not even close to the same design.

S&W screwed up twice with the sigma; first (and most obvious) is the trigger/sear arrangement resulting in a heavy pull and second was the non-standard light rail. Somebody at S&W must have thought it cute to have a proprietary light rail that very few lights would fit. At least the M&P uses a standard light rail and has a decent trigger pull.

gtmerkley
July 11, 2008, 01:43 AM
I love the model 10! but not the auto's so much thats just me.

basicblur
July 11, 2008, 02:12 AM
Removed

TCW
July 11, 2008, 02:31 AM
Shot a Sigma once. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Bad trigger.

fastbolt
July 11, 2008, 02:22 PM
S&W polymer-framed pistols?

I generally don't get emotionally attached to firearms. Granted, I enjoy owning some more than others, but over the years of my LE career my interest has become mostly focused on their practical value and attributes when carried as defensive weapons on & off-duty.

As a firearms instructor and armorer I've been fortunate in the regard that I've had a fair opportunity to become familiar with a number of the handguns used in the LE field. I've also been able to attend a number of armorer classes over the years (more than Baker's Dozen ;) ).

I've attended armorer classes for the Sigma, Glock, SW99/P99 & the M&P (7 classes altogether for those models).

I own a couple of Glocks.

I own a couple of SW99's. I also carried a SW99 (.40 S&W) as an issued weapon for a few years and helped support and maintain about 50 of them over the last several years.

I own a M&P 45.

I never particularly cared for the Sigma trigger, although I've always thought the grip angle and ergonomics were very good. There have been a number of changes, revisions and refinements in the Sigma line since I attended the armorer class. I was told that the Sigma line benefited from some further refinement within the last few years, and its actually one their strongest selling lines (despite its often vocal detractors among internet forums). I have little doubt the budget cost helps its attractiveness.

While I like many things about the 99 series line, I think the M&P design offers some noticeable advantages among its features in many respects. I've mentioned this in other threads.

One of the things I've noticed over the years is that Walther is sometimes seemingly slow to ship parts here for the 99 series. Not all that uncommon to be told that parts are back-ordered from Walther.

I won't be getting rid of my Glocks, SW99's or my M&P 45 ... although I could see "retiring" my standard size SW99 (.40 S&W) and G27 to the back of the safe and eventually replacing them with similarly sized standard & compact M&P pistols chambered in .40 S&W.

FWIW, S&W has been doing very well with the new M&P pistol series. Although it was only released in January 2006, S&W has won contracts in slightly over 80% of the LE pistol evaluations/bids when the M&P was considered among the candidate pistols. Over 330 agencies so far, last I heard. Not bad for a new pistol design on the market for just a couple of years. Granted, its received some minor revisions and refinements since its initial release ... but Glock continues to make upgrades, revisions and refinements to its model line, too, you know. ;)

I think S&W will do well with the M&P line.

I'll always have a personal preference for a nicely done traditional double action trigger design (DA/SA, if you prefer) for common defensive pistols, but I became accustomed to the Glock, and I've quickly learned to become accustomed to the M&P trigger, as well.

skoro
July 11, 2008, 06:24 PM
I'll admit right up front that I'm more of a revolver guy. I have a bucketful. But I also have two M&Ps; a full size 45 and a compact 9mm. Both are very good shooters and fit my hand extremely well. The interchangeble backstraps really do allow you to get "the" grip you want. Both have devoured all kinds of ammo (good and bad) without so much as a hiccup. They're easy to disassemble, clean, and reassemble. Both have nice crisp "2-stage" triggers.

I have no complaints whatsoever. I think S&W has done a good job with these pistols and they'll probably be a big success. Anyone who's in the market for an auto pistol should definitely keep the M&P in mind. I comparison shopped and chose the M&Ps over Beretta, Springfield XD, Glock, and Kahr equivalent models at the local gunshops. To be honest, any of the others would have been equally as serviceable, I'm sure. But the M&Ps just fit so well.

varoadking
July 11, 2008, 06:36 PM
I don't care for the droopy dustcover...that alone keeps me from buying one...

I'm not familiar with that issue. What's up with that?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/MP.jpg

The opposite of the Glock pigsnout...

basicblur
July 11, 2008, 07:02 PM
I'm not familiar with the droopy dustcovers, but from what I see in the picture of the M&P I’m wondering in it was designed that way?
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.

BS or not I can’t say, but apparently that was S&W’s story and I assume they were sticking too it!
I’m wondering if the gap on the front dustcover of the M&P is (also) there for a reason?

MaterDei
July 11, 2008, 07:17 PM
The quality of the plastic on the Sigma trigger is very impressive. As hard as I pulled it, it never broke.

I really hated that gun.

jgorniak
July 12, 2008, 07:26 AM
SW9VE was my first purchased gun. Never had any other autos to compare it to, so nothing was expected (other than trigger pull = bang).
A few autos later, and I still love this gun.

Ske1etor
July 15, 2008, 01:23 PM
I tell you what... all these folks in here complaining about the trigger on the sigma. Here is a test for you. Shoot one group with your favorite pistol. Now, find someone with a sigma and ask them if you can shoot a couple hundred rounds through it. Do so over the next few days/weeks, whatever. Then return to your favorite firearm and shoot another single group. If you got worse, you need to trade in your firearm for a bullet proof vest and hope for the best.

It is an affordable, combat accurate firearm with Smith and Wesson customer service and they are giving away all kinds of stuff right now when you purchase one.

Onesiphorus
July 15, 2008, 03:00 PM
I like my Sigma 9mm. $285.99 NIB and a slimmer profile than any Glock or boXD. Trigger gets better with use. My 3913TSW has the best trigger reset in the industry, but it's not plastic. Sold my M&P Compact 9mm because a Glock 26 was easier for me to conceal. I love my 1911SC, but it's metal too. Guess I don't know the answer to your question so I'll quit mumbling now.

shooter58
July 15, 2008, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.

Anyone who has worked in composite materials will tell you it's called the
"coefficient of thermal expansion". Yes, the composite material and the metal do expand at different rates when heating up and can cause a serious binding condition.

gopguy
July 16, 2008, 01:01 PM
The first Sigma pistols were OK. But after the lawsuit and Glock's victory in court, the next series of them, with the required changes were not up to snuff. They never recovered from that...

rcmodel
July 16, 2008, 01:25 PM
I know the feeling.
I bought a Baby Browning several years ago.
Just because it was so cute.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/Baby2.jpg

Still, it weighs more then my P3AT.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/BabyBrowning.jpg

rcmodel

If you enjoyed reading about "Why no love for S&W poly autos?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!