So my neighbor gets robbed


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LtShortcut
July 9, 2008, 09:52 AM
Two ladies, mother and daughter, live down the street from me. The day before yesterday at 2230 an intruder kicked in their kitchen door, stole their purses and ran off into the night.

I was over helping to straighten out the door situation and without even really thinking I offered to give them one of my pistols (I have several small caliber revolvers that I use for "snake guns"). They declined the offer, the mother has a .38.

After getting home I got to thinking: "Could anything happen that would cause me to get into trouble if I had provided them with the means to protect themselves?".

Well, could I have gotten into some trouble? I have offered to give my friends pistols before and probably will again.

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Picard
July 9, 2008, 09:56 AM
Legally, if you live in a state which allows face to face transfers without background checks, then I'd say you couldn't get into trouble.

Eric F
July 9, 2008, 10:03 AM
Legally, if you live in a state which allows face to face transfers without background checks, then I'd say you couldn't get into trouble.

There are a tun of what if's in this.

As far as Va goes you can sell face to face or other wise give a pistol to some one but
they can not be a felon-no current easy way to check this
they must be 21
can not have purchased another pistol with in 30 days

the law can come after you however it is fairly easy to get out of these charges so they usually do not.

texas bulldog
July 9, 2008, 10:25 AM
i have often thought that i would be willing to give a gun to a friend or family member in need, but it would need to be someone i knew pretty well. i wouldn't want to end up arming a felon or drug addict because i was trying to help out. legally, though, i believe i would be fine in texas as long as they were an in-state resident and i had no reason to believe (as a reasonable person, of course) that they were in a prohibited class.

SsevenN
July 9, 2008, 10:36 AM
I met a couple while in my late teens, working with the Dad at a Smokehouse.

They had a Kid together and she had 2 previous.

We were good friends for years, then the Dad went to jail on a domestic for 1 year. (Not giving specifics)

Anyway when he was about to get turned out, I offered the Mom one of my handguns.

She refused after a long and hard internal debate.

Could I have gotten in trouble? Probably.

Was it the right thing to do? IMHO Yes.

LtShortcut
July 9, 2008, 10:38 AM
"There are a tun of what if's in this."

Yeah, sorry. I just don't know if any trouble could come up at all.

This is in Alabama.

I'm pretty sure grandma isn't a felon, but who knows?

ilbob
July 9, 2008, 11:02 AM
I am not generally in favor of loaning out firearms to anyone for self defense purposes. having said that, I might do so if I knew someone who clearly needed one for a short period of time. Like during a zombie invasion. :)

Seriously, it is a tough call.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
July 9, 2008, 11:03 AM
The "correct" answer is state specific.

Luckily in VA preemption laws prevent localities from passing local laws but not all areas are the same so the answer may even vary from town to town or city to city.

In VA there is no license required to keep & bear arms. Firearms are not registered and there is no waiting period.

You can't give/sell/transfer/gift a firearm to:
* someone under legal age (21 for handguns)
* someone who can't legally purchase a firearm (felon, mentally, i.e. will fail background check)
* someone who has purchased a firearm in last 30 days (CHP provides an exception).

Now as a matter of law you also can't verify any of this. There are no public records of felons, there are no public records of gun purchases.

In VA even if you gave/sold/loaned/gifted a firearm to a felon, mentally ill person, someone underage, or someone using you to get around 1 gun a month law that isn't automatically a crime.

The case would rest on what you knew or reasonably would be expected to know. A felon could say "no I am not a felon". Would you be liable. I don't see how. On the other hand if prosecutor could prove that you did KNOW the person would ineligible for handgun and provided it anyways you would be liable.

Key point is every state is different so it would be best to ask your local police and/or a state specific forum.

FCFC
July 9, 2008, 11:52 AM
I think the answer to the OP's question is yes.

There are so many fields that it would be possible to have trouble in: financial, liability, familyrelations, legal, etc.

25 years ago I lent my brother-in-law a handgun. Some folks had threatened him and he was concerned about the safety of his family. He had the gun for a couple months or so. What happened? Nothing.

But almost every day I thought about that gun and what could happen. It didn't ruin my day but it was on my mind...

I wouldn't do it today. Especially not in a situation as described by the OP. Way too many alternatives that could be brought to bear on the situation. And they already had a gun. Why another? I don't see the logic in that.

brickeyee
July 9, 2008, 12:51 PM
In VA there is no license required to keep & bear arms. Firearms are not registered and there is no waiting period.

You can't give/sell/transfer/gift a firearm to:
* someone under legal age (21 for handguns)
* someone who can't legally purchase a firearm (felon, mentally, i.e. will fail background check)
* someone who has purchased a firearm in last 30 days (CHP provides an exception).


The Virginia law for handguns is NOT 21.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-309
18.2-309. Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty.

A. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a dirk, switchblade knife or bowie knife, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity.

Minors are UNDER 18.

LtShortcut
July 9, 2008, 02:46 PM
I wouldn't do it today. Especially not in a situation as described by the OP. Way too many alternatives that could be brought to bear on the situation. And they already had a gun. Why another? I don't see the logic in that.

by: FCFC



I didn't know they already had a gun until after I offered to give them one of mine.

rondog
July 9, 2008, 03:07 PM
Probably not a good idea. How would you feel if the gun you gave them was taken away and then used on them?

DragonFire
July 9, 2008, 03:33 PM
If you're only asking about criminal charges, I can't help you, but if you're asking about generic "trouble" then the answer is YES.

If you only loaned them the gun, if they used it on the next BG and only wounded him, I think you very easily could have been involved in the lawsuit that would most likely follow. Whether justified or not, any shooting involving that gun would automatically involve you.

I'm not sure I wouldn't have made the offer you did, but I'd have set it up on "paper" to show that I sold them the gun, even if both parties knew it was only a loan. That might minimize your involvement.

How would you feel if the gun you gave them was taken away and then used on them?

Sounds kind of "anti" to me, so it's better to leave them defenseless, just in case?!

Cougfan2
July 9, 2008, 03:47 PM
I only did it one time. A good friend of mine was working the graveyard shift doing security work. His wife was home alone at night. She had a former slug of a boyfriend that got out of the Kansas State Penn and found out she had married my buddy. He started making threatening phone calls saying he was going to kill her. My buddy asked me if he could borrow one of my shotguns and I agreed, but only after taking them to the range and making sure she could safely operate the shotgun.

When the Shawnee County Sheriff came by to take her complaint he asked her if she had any protection and she said yes, she had a shotgun. He told her that if the guy came over and tried to get into the house to shoot him and if he fell outside drag him into the house. He then handed her his card and said "If you can't drag him into the house, call me and I'll do it for you.".;) Keep in mind, this was back in the 70's. Anyway the guy self terminated in a car wreck a few days later so problem solved.

novaDAK
July 9, 2008, 07:30 PM
In VA there is no license required to keep & bear arms. Firearms are not registered and there is no waiting period.

You can't give/sell/transfer/gift a firearm to:
* someone under legal age (21 for handguns)
* someone who can't legally purchase a firearm (felon, mentally, i.e. will fail background check)
* someone who has purchased a firearm in last 30 days (CHP provides an exception).


The Virginia law for handguns is NOT 21
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-309

18.2-309. Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty.

A. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a dirk, switchblade knife or bowie knife, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity.
Minors are UNDER 18.
Thanks for saving me the time to write all that. The law stated by Happiness Is A Warm Gun only applies to purchasing from a dealer.

You have to be 18+, NOT 21+, for private sales.
The one handgun per 30 days law does NOT apply to private sales.

I've bought several handguns when I was 18 and I studied the law before doing anything so I know the above info is correct.

HIcarry
July 9, 2008, 08:09 PM
In Hawaii, it is illegal to "loan" someone a handgun, and long-guns can only be loaned out for a period not to exceed 14 days.
A quick and convenient sale or gifting wouldn't be possible as the receiving individual would have to have a permit to aquire, which takes about 14 days to get.
Check your State laws carefully...

makarovnik
July 9, 2008, 08:48 PM
Initially you would get in trouble. Some lawyers and a couple of thousand dollars later you would be cleared. First off if there was another incident and the gun was fired; say bye bye to you gun. Next you would have to prove that you were not involved and get testimony from your neighbor that you loaned it to them on such and such a date. Like I said, you would be cleared but it'll cost you. The police department and the local legal system just loves to use these scenarios to extort money from you.

I'd get the gun back (if you can). It would not be funny if there was another "break in" at that home and your gun was stolen. Think about that very carefully and let your imagination run wild.

If they really need a gun, do what I did for my brother. Tell him to get his CPL then sell the gun to him and turn in a private gun sale transfer form REGARDLESS of whether or not the state law requires it.

Prepare for the best but expect the worse.

Sebastian the Ibis
July 9, 2008, 08:53 PM
I'd say ask a lawyer to be sure. But it would just be cheaper to just give them the gun through a FFL and not worry about it.

justin 561
July 9, 2008, 08:54 PM
I don't think that giving them a pistol would help them, as the guy probably would have moved on and found another house to rob. Or waited till later on when they were gone.

FCFC
July 9, 2008, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure I wouldn't have made the offer you did, but I'd have set it up on "paper" to show that I sold them the gun, even if both parties knew it was only a loan. That might minimize your involvement.

This kind of suggestion is poorly thought out. It's simply a subterfuge, often easily discovered when scrutinized.

Lying about stuff involving guns is not a very good idea. Sure, you can create little pieces of paper that say one thing when the reality is another. Sure you can get away with it sometimes. But what's the point?

XD Fan
July 9, 2008, 09:52 PM
Of course there could be trouble, but I am not sure that I would not have made the same offer after taking them out to the range for instruction.

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