Reliability Standards for CCW - 2?s


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FranklyTodd
July 9, 2008, 12:42 PM
Obviously reliability is paramount in a defensive firearm.

I purchased a pricy NIB auto for CCW that would not feed hollowpoints (brand has overall great reputation for reliability - don't want to cloud this thread with brand issues). Disappointing, but not the end of the world (better to have problems out of the box than develop them over time). The factory customer service has been great: bought it June 19, sent it to them June 26, they just notified me it's on its way home.

My two questions:

(1) When I get it back, I will of course run the problem ammo (Winchester Ranger T-series 9mm +P) through it. If it jams X out of the first 100 rds, I'm taking it back to the store and demanding my money back. What number should X be? Is it unreasonable to dump the gun with ONE jam out of 100? Two?

(2) Assuming it is appearing to function perfectly, how many rounds before I trust it for CCW? Should I be more leary of this gun, and thus run a higher number of rounds through before trusting it, or would the standard number be sufficient? (std. for me for an auto would be approximately 3-400 total, with about 100 being carry ammo)

I look forward to opinions - thanks!

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gtmtnbiker98
July 9, 2008, 12:50 PM
I "typically" will carry a gun after 200 or so trouble free rounds out of the box. Since the gun has proven problematic, I don't think that I could carry it at all. I have zero tolerance for an unreliable firearm.

Should you elect to keep it, I would run at a minimum, 500 additional rounds. If it proves to function as advertised, then I would keep it. Anymore failures would result in a rapid sell. Just my opinion.

FranklyTodd
July 9, 2008, 12:57 PM
Since the gun has proven problematic, I don't think that I could carry it at all. I have zero tolerance for an unreliable firearm.

That position has crossed my mind, believe me. Probably the answer will just make itself apparent. I will shoot it a bunch, and I'll either feel good (confident) about it or not.

It is still is nice to get others' opinions. Thanks for yours!!

esq_stu
July 9, 2008, 12:57 PM
I'd look at a couple of things:

1 - Is there a recommended break-in period and if so, has the gun been shot that much;
2 - What is the overall record of reliability for the gun (no make/model posted).

If you went over a recommended break-in period and still experience one out of 200-300 FTFs that can not be resolved, there's a problem. By "resolved" I mean something obvious like weak mag springs, dirt, rough chamber walls, etc.

If the make/model has known problems, consider dumping it.

Regardless, the problems need to be resolved or you shouldn't carry it (IMO).

lazyeye
July 9, 2008, 12:58 PM
1. In my opinion a CCW gun (assuming you have a choice in the matter and aren't using literally the only gun on the planet) should be %100 reliable for at least 50rds of your carry ammo. That would prove to ME that it is a reliable gun/ammo combo
2. 50rds should do it to trust the ammo. But thats me.

FranklyTodd
July 10, 2008, 02:33 PM
OP here. The question, at least for me, has been answered.

The gun in question is a Sig P239 - a model not usually known for problems. It returned from Sig last night, and I went to the range today for a long lunch... ;)

After 150rds of Winchester T-series +P JHPs (the exact ammo that was choking it before) and 100rds of WWB, I am completely satisfied, and have complete confidence in carrying this fantastic pistol! :D:D:D

Sig customer service simply could not have been any better - completely courteous, paid shipping both ways, and made the gun perfect very, very quickly. :D

Erik
July 10, 2008, 02:59 PM
Here's my take on things:

You have to determine ammunition compatabilty, and reliabilty. For semi-autos, I like to see 200 or so rounds of a given load run through to determine ammunition compatabilty. For reliability, another 800 or so, for a grand total of approximately 1000. For revolvers, I find 500 problem-free rounds through them to be the arbitrarily comfortable number for me to carry them. It is less of a function test than giving the parts which might fail a chance to do so at the range instead of in the field.

My current semi-auto pistol had approximately 2500 rounds fired through it before I first carried it. The one before that approximately 1500 and the one before that approximately 2000. My current carry revolver had 500 - I was anxious, what can I say?

As for what is reliable, I consider a non-ammunition related failure rate of 1/1000 to be acceptable. Any more than that and it is time to ID the problem and either fix it if possible or move-on to another gun.

JDGray
July 10, 2008, 03:26 PM
Man, I was guessing 1911 on this one:D

My P239 9mm has been perfect with any ammo, glad Sig took care of you!:)

The Lone Haranguer
July 10, 2008, 10:34 PM
(1) When I get it back, I will of course run the problem ammo (Winchester Ranger T-series 9mm +P) through it. If it jams X out of the first 100 rds, I'm taking it back to the store and demanding my money back. What number should X be?
Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. A big goose egg. ;)

BUT - is this the only brand of hollowpoint ammo you've tried? Sometimes you can get a gun that will not function well with certain load(s) - in other words, X load may not be compatible due to bullet shape, pressure/velocity or whatever. If this is the case, I suggest trying a sampling of different loads - at least some of which should be standard pressure - before condemning the gun.

FranklyTodd
July 10, 2008, 10:51 PM
I suggest trying a sampling of different loads - at least some of which should be standard pressure - before condemning the gun.

I agree if it was a used gun, or I was otherwise coerced to keep it, but being brand new (and expensive) I was not willing to accept a finicky gun. I would have rather taken it back for a full refund, and started over!

Alas, after a trip home to N.H., all is well! (see post #6)

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