Where do Anti's come from?


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Sebastian the Ibis
July 9, 2008, 09:59 PM
My Uncle, who is a bit of a lefty, was in Central Asia speaking with some people that had been offered a chance to move to the USA courtesy of Uncle Sam. They were asking him about all America, what it was like and whether they should move here etc. So he thought the best way to explain America was to start with the Bill of Rights. He explained the First Amendment, and they nodded. He explained the Second Amendment and their eyes lit up. “You mean we have guns? We can defend ourselves?” For both my uncle and the soon to be emigrants a light bulb went off. America is truly a great place to be because the government trusts us enough to have guns to defend ourselves and shoot back if need be.

I was thinking about this story the other day and I was wondering: Is there anyone who has lived under a despot or through a revolution/civil war that does not support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms? I doubt it, but I'd like to know if anyone has ever met one.

Most of he Cubans and older Jews I know are armed to the teeth here in Miami. And the rest are probably just a little quieter about it.

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KiltedClaymore
July 9, 2008, 10:07 PM
i know where antis come from. they come from the north :neener:

La Pistoletta
July 9, 2008, 10:10 PM
Kant.

gripper
July 9, 2008, 10:13 PM
I'd say that they come from a diseased mindset...one that is determined to make its own cowardice and irrationality into a virtue....and then mandate it!

ClickClickD'oh
July 9, 2008, 10:15 PM
i know where antis come from. they come from the north Doesn't do much to explain Alaska.

Fear breeds anti's.

yeti
July 9, 2008, 10:19 PM
i know where antis come from. they come from the north

And don't blindly blame all of the North East either, all 49 other states have draconian gun laws compared to Vermont, and we were here before most of the rest of ya's!:neener::neener:

Just Jim
July 9, 2008, 10:25 PM
All the governments that have killed their people by the millions have been socialist and they all took away the rights of the people to own guns.

Socialist start as a party for the people and ends as a government that kills it's people. Hitler, Stalin and Mao, all socialist and all mass murderers.

Socialism is alive and well in this country, just look to which party wants to take away your guns.
jj

shdwfx
July 9, 2008, 10:25 PM
Where do anti's come from?

Ask your mother. :neener:

22-rimfire
July 9, 2008, 10:48 PM
Our schools are teaching our youth to be fearful of firearms, not the person yielding the firearm necessarily. What do you expect?

Just Jim
July 9, 2008, 10:50 PM
Our schools are teaching our youth to be fearful of firearms, not the person yielding the firearm necessarily. What do you expect?

Because your schools are run by socialist. They must have an anti gun message to get control of peoples lives. They can't control an armed populace.

jj

Picard
July 9, 2008, 11:01 PM
Recipe for an Anti:
-2 cups of a comfortable lifestyle
-1 tablespoon of apathy

-Mix thoroughly

Note: You musn't add any logic or real firearm experience or else the recipe fails miserably.

-Add 15+ years of emotional anti-gun brainwashing

-Take out of the oven and you have fresh anti.

joop
July 9, 2008, 11:16 PM
People who are against guns are victims of the mainstream media, apathy, fear, and emotion. They try to justify their position by calling us "gun nuts" but really, who are the ones justifying their position based and feelings and not logic?

Efforts would be better spent lobbying for better after school programs than increasing gun control, but a new junior sports league is not as sensational as gun violence. Mainstream media doesn't help either, since the antis soak up whatever the media says.

guntotinguy
July 9, 2008, 11:19 PM
Fear breeds anti's

+ 1

Thats it actually...an unfounded fear with irrational attitudes,and oftimes thats why 'we need guns to protect ourselves'.

doc2rn
July 9, 2008, 11:24 PM
Academia, anywhere they think that the power of GFZs is working.

TexasSkyhawk
July 9, 2008, 11:32 PM
It's been said that "Misery loves company."

So do Cowards.

It's easier for Cowards to huddle with other like-minded, fearful Cowards and foolishly delude each other into thinking that if "guns went away, there would be no more gun crimes and they would thus, be forever safe from gun or any other type of violence."

Another trait I've noticed about Cowards is a distinct lack of individualism. They prefer living in crowded urban areas; they seemingly are unable to be apart from a group--any group--for any length of time before growing nervous or uncertain, or fearful, and finding another group to join or cluster in.

Cowards typically need leaders because they do not possess the intestinal fortitude to forge into unknown waters on their own. They are fearful of standing out by themselves, and absolutely terrified at the prospect of ever having to physically defend themselves, their loved ones or friends. Instead, they bleat and cry out for those braver than themselves to do their bidding for them.

I'm firmly convinced that if there were no guns--and never had been any guns--the Cowards among us would be just as anti-Sword or anti-Knife or anti-Club as they are anti-Gun today.

In short, Cowards are afraid and incapable of defending themselves. As such, they're miserable.

And Misery not only wants company, it demands it.

Jeff

esmith
July 9, 2008, 11:33 PM
Where do Anti's come from?

The Northeast.

Neo-Luddite
July 9, 2008, 11:38 PM
i know where antis come from. they come from the north

I'd watch that sort of talk there, in jest or no--it leads to tempers flaring over times long past to no good end.

And really, with Les Baer, Armalite, Springfield and fricken' Blackwater setting up shop here 'up north' in my neck of the woods--how anti do you think MOST of us really are?

And man, nobody up here disrespects AZ--so be be nice.

rainbowbob
July 9, 2008, 11:46 PM
Fear breeds anti's...

Well yeah...but doesn't fear also breed gun owners?

I wonder if it isn't two diametrically oposed reactions to the same fear of criminal violence?

Some of us believe we have at least a fighting chance of protecting ourselves with a gun.

The other ones think they can protect themselves by magically making all guns disappear.

Same fear - different response.

One is logical - the other is delusional.

camslam
July 9, 2008, 11:51 PM
My experience has shown MOST anti's come from one of two things.

1. Ignorance of the facts and truth regarding gun use.

2. Fear of guns because of misinformation, bad experience, or losing someone to gun violence.

3. I have no idea where the REST of them come from, but if we find that dark, crazy place, what say we help them get over their aversion? :)

esmith
July 9, 2008, 11:52 PM
Well yeah...but doesn't fear also breed gun owners?

Irrational fear breeds anti's. Rational fear breads gun owners.

I'd watch that sort of talk there, in jest or no--it leads to tempers flaring over times long past to no good end.


Im willing to bet that per capita, there are more anti's in the Northeast and Southwest than there are in, say, Texas.

Corporal K
July 9, 2008, 11:54 PM
Fear of having to fight back.

jedwi
July 10, 2008, 12:01 AM
sebastian.... perhaps off your line but......our government does not allow us to have weapons.....that is our right...and that right was recently affirmed. may seem a small distinction, but it is significant...

KiltedClaymore
July 10, 2008, 12:04 AM
[QUOTE]Our schools are teaching our youth to be fearful of firearms, not the person yielding the firearm necessarily.[QUOTE]

this is why i want to teach high school history.

Zip7
July 10, 2008, 12:05 AM
I've always thought they came from large cities because that's where you find the most anti-gun prejudice.

Cities create an artificial environment of their own and insulate people from many worries. Cities protect and help provide for people in many ways. Those people learn to rely on the city, and by association, the city, state and fed government.

When that artificial environment comes crashing down, it's not the place you want to be. That's why the S always HTF in cities. When the electricity goes out in the sticks, it's just another day. In the city it's SHTF.

TexasRifleman
July 10, 2008, 12:06 AM
this is why i want to teach high school history.

Do they still allow that?

KiltedClaymore
July 10, 2008, 12:08 AM
what? history? down here they do. teachers owning guns? yup. im in summer school (stupid geometry...) and my teacher was talking about shooting .44 magnum handguns at 100 yard targets when he was in highschool. no idea how it related to math, but it was a good story!

TexasRifleman
July 10, 2008, 12:10 AM
what? history? down here they do.

Yes, non revised history. The high school here where I live it seems does not allow history to be taught unless it follows the "approved" curriculum in which, as an example, the Mexicans taking the Alamo are the victims and Bowie, Crockett etc the "aggressors".

And that's in Texas of all places.....

That's why I ask. If you can teach real history you could possibly have an impact, but it seems more and more the powers that be are deciding to teach the revised version.

KiltedClaymore
July 10, 2008, 12:12 AM
nope, we get real history here. alamo and all. the mexican-american war was kinda pushed/instigated by polk, but i aint complaining, it gave me my state!

stevelyn
July 10, 2008, 12:20 AM
Fear breeds anti's.

Antis and lefties are people who lack the courage to take responsibility for their own lives.

lanternlad1
July 10, 2008, 12:20 AM
"America is truly a great place to be because the government trusts us enough to have guns to defend ourselves and shoot back if need be."

The government doesn't trust us anymore than we trust it. The Founding Fathers had great foresight in knowing the minds of despots and kings, and the knowledge that power corrupts absolutely . They knew that if America grew in power, so would its government. Sooner or later, the government they would have would be no better than the government they left behind. So they prepared for it. It is up to us to continue the struggle they started and be always ready to take up the new fight. Antis are ignorant, plain and simple. I don't care if they want to put their head in the sand, don't write laws that force me to do the same.

I won't obey them.

jedwi
July 10, 2008, 12:29 AM
Sebastion....I have never lived under a despot. I think that was your post. Anyone lived in a country that deprived you of everything???

KiltedClaymore
July 10, 2008, 12:32 AM
other than parents house? (kidding!!! sometimes...)

jahwarrior
July 10, 2008, 12:50 AM
well, a boy anti meets a girl anti, and they rub their naughty bits, and -wow!- the magical anti stork brings them a brand new anti!!!

Jorg Nysgerrig
July 10, 2008, 12:55 AM
Irrational fear breeds anti's. Rational fear breads gun owners.
I think there are enough irrational fear posts on here daily to confound that generalization.

jedwi
July 10, 2008, 12:56 AM
Do any of you care about the original question???

Cuda
July 10, 2008, 01:15 AM
Teachers/parents teaching opinion rather than facts..

C

jedwi
July 10, 2008, 01:27 AM
Sebastion,,,,I apologize that you got no real input here..

justin 561
July 10, 2008, 01:28 AM
I don't need to live through a revolution or civil war to realize that I need the 2A. Eventually some countries will learn that, heck, America might also.

Big B
July 10, 2008, 01:28 AM
I bet that a lot of anti's have never fired a gun, or spent much time around responsible gun owners. My wife didn't care for guns in general, until I took her to fire the .22 that her dad had given to me. Not only did she like it, but she's a great shot.
I also think thot there are a lot of anti's who have lost loved ones to gun violence. Out of fear and ignorance,(lack of knowledge) their natural reaction is to hate the gun itself, not the people who misuse firearms.
Until there is more education, I think fear will outweigh rational thought, and we will have anti's pushing un-effective gun control laws.

NukemJim
July 10, 2008, 07:54 AM
Uhmm... I see 2 questions in the original post

1) The title "Where do Anti's come from

2)"Is there anyone who has lived under a despot or through a revolution/civil war that does not support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms?"

I cannot answer the 2nd question.

But as to the first, may I suggest trying to answer the question in order to understand the Antis and their point of view (Not for PC reasons but for Sun Tzu's reasons *) Insulting our opponents and belittling them is not a smart thing to do if you wish to win.

I know of 2 sources of anti's that have not yet been mentioned.

A) People who have lost a family member or close friend that has been killed/maimed/wounded by the misuse of a firearm.

Logical? Not from my point of view, but it is extremely real and I have seen it a number of times. Please remember the vast majority of people are not logical.

B) People who have seen and/or worked on people who have been killed/maimed/wounded by the misuse of a firearm.

I include in the above LEO's, EMTs/Parmedics, Healthcare workers and Funeral Directors/Embalmers.

My older brother is one such person :o . He is one of the smartest people I know, he taught me how to shoot and I bought my first gun (airgun) from him. He is also a pediatric surgeon who is a member of Handgun Control :o (or whatever they are calling themselves lately). I have run into a number of people like him in the medical field ( I work in a large innercity university hosptial setting)

Intersting topic If we take it seriously. I have to go to work now. I hope that by the time I get home some more serious discussion occurs on this thread and that it does not devolve into Anti name calling and self promotion.

NukemJim


*Sun Tzu If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.Underlining and bold type added by NukemJim

usmarine0352_2005
July 10, 2008, 10:12 AM
.


A galaxy far, far away.


.

Phil DeGraves
July 10, 2008, 11:44 AM
Use the search feature and find the threads "Confessions of an Anti" by Foreign Dude.

It was an excellent series on the indoctrination of anti philosophy and his eventual conversion. I think it was in 4 parts.

2E8B
July 10, 2008, 11:45 AM
Fear, ignorance, & indoctrination.

From my encounters with the anti-folk, there is an inverse proportion of knowledge/experience with firearms to the level of anti: The less they have been around firearms/have knowledge about them, the more anti they are. The converse is true as well... sometimes the horse just wont drink.

guitarhero323
July 10, 2008, 11:55 AM
"know where antis come from. they come from the north"


hey im from ohio and im no anti but i do live in preble county often refered to as prebletuckey the most redneck place in ohio

ochmude
July 10, 2008, 11:57 AM
I know a lot of anti's (I'm from Massachusetts) and can tell you from personal experience that a lot of them, actually all of the anti's that I'm personally acquainted with, are wonderful people with the most sincere and upright of intentions. I've heard the saying that anti's want to feel safe and pro's want to be safe. IMHO, that's just pro-gun rhetoric. Everyone want's to actually be safe.
The real problem is much more deep-seeded than that. The state of American culture is on that is devoid of a sense of personal responsibility. The majority of the U.S. population wants to be legislated through life. They want laws telling them what to do and what not to do. They feel it's the government's job to care for them like a parent cares for a child. Heck, this is true on even on a very small scale. At the company I work for (manufacturing of engine parts) I have seen employees go to the HR manager because someone was "hogging the microwave in the breakroom". People don't want to work things out for themselves, take care of themselves, or fend for themselves. They want to pass that responsibility to someone who's "in charge".
That's one of the things that irritated me about my time in the Marines (which was an overall positive experience which I'm very proud of. I'm not now nor would I ever bash the Corps). When I was nearing my time to decide to re-up or get out, a lot of other guys were facing the same decision at the same time. A few of them made the decision to stay in solely because "it's so easy, you just do what you're told, and you get paid for it." They were brought up in that culture of the nanny-state, the society were you just follow the rules like a good boy and those who know better will take care of you.
This brings me to the largest, and truly the saddest difference between anti's and pro's. For anti's, all this makes sense. They think it is good and right, it's what's best for them, for their families, for society. They have lost all touch with the meaning behind a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Beyond that, they really don't feel capable of trusting themselves or taking care of themselves. When anti's say you shouldn't have a gun, what they are saying is they don't trust themselves to have guns, and since you couldn't possibly be better than them, you aren't to be trusted either. Leave all that to the people in charge. That's their job, not ours. That's what we pay them for.
Until anti's start to realize that they aren't helpless and are able to care for themselves without the assisitance of legislation, and until they are able to think for themselves without the guidance of the media, they will remain anti. But once they taste the freedom and sense of empowerment that comes with accepting personal responsibility, they will slowly join our side. God know's when, or if that day will ever come.

22-rimfire
July 10, 2008, 12:02 PM
Like everything else in life, knowledge is crucial to forming a well rounded opinion on the subject. As the above poster mentioned, most folks that support strict gun control laws do not know much about firearms. But if a well informed person has that opinion (anti-gun), then his opininion is just as valid as mine.

People affected by violence go both ways in terms of gun control. The socialist leaning person will invariably choose more and stricter laws believing that the laws will make them safer. The other side believes that their security is in their own hands and will take measures to insure that security such as owning firearms and learning to shoot them.

I have never lived in any country other than the USA for an extended period of time. So, I have no valid opinion on this question.

yokel
July 10, 2008, 12:46 PM
Advocates of banning guns think we can substitute material things for human self-control, but this approach won't wash. It is the human moral will that saves us from violence, not the presence or absence of weapons. We should reject utterly the absurd theory that weapons are the cause of violence.

Their "solution" implies that we can trust government with a monopoly on guns, even though we cannot trust ourselves with them. This is not a "solution" I trust.

The Tourist
July 10, 2008, 01:01 PM
I don't think the idea is "evil," I think it's a perception.

I once heard a joke about car drivers. In describing the way people drive, a "fudd" is anyone who gets in your way, and a "maniac" is anyone who passes you.

I know lots of people who own firearms and honestly question me about owning a large cruiser motorcycle or taking a ride without a helmet.

In their idea of "perception," the idea of their use of this country's freedoms is reasonable. Anyone who is "too free" is just another nut.

For example, in the 1960's there were lots of so-called hippies who moved out of the cities, built communes, planted their own food and never hurt anyone. In fact, in discussing the Haight-Improvement-Plan, the peaceful hippie far out-weighs in numbers the group that became the SDS or The Weather Underground.

I was never a member of that group at any level, but it's still painful to watch sections of "Easy Rider." And trust me, in working along side the dock workers and truckers at Master Lock, its not a far jump in reality.

In a sense, I simply view what you describe as an "anti" is just another leftie with an idea and a microphone. I wish they supported the Bill of Rights. I wished that they would stay out of my business, quit talking about helmets they don't have to wear and quit harrassing sportsmen.

But part of me wonders if I represent a person who is just "too free."

If you have the DVD of Easy Rider, consider that idea when viewing the scene when Jack Nicholson explains freedom to Dennis Hopper around a campfire.

Halo
July 10, 2008, 01:09 PM
This is my theory on it, sort of a variation of the "misery loves company" idea expressed earlier in the thread.

People tend to have disdain for other people who do not share their same inadequacies, fears, prejudices, etc. Rather than view it as admirable, they lash out at those other people because subconsciously they don't like seeing the contrast to their own weaknesses. Rather than confront their own cowardly victim mentality, they dismiss those not similarly shackled by that submissive mentality as being some sort of paranoid "gun nut" inbred hick, etc ad nauseam.

Obviously antis are formed in many different ways, but my observation has been that the most dyed-in-the-wool antis are described by the above.

jws527
July 10, 2008, 01:09 PM
Use the search feature and find the threads "Confessions of an Anti" by Foreign Dude.

It was an excellent series on the indoctrination of anti philosophy and his eventual conversion. I think it was in 4 parts.Engaging story - thank you for the tip.

The Tourist
July 10, 2008, 01:18 PM
People tend to have disdain for other people who do not share their same inadequacies, fears, prejudices, etc. Rather than view it as admirable, they lash out at those other people because subconsciously they don't like seeing the contrast to their own weaknesses.

And if we speak in the vast generality of labeling ourselves as "gun owners," it is important to realize we do the same thing.

Before you flame, let me ask you if you've ever met a real-deal survivalist?

Ever meet a guy who believes Mel Tappan's books are The Holy Grail? Ever hear about a place in Wisconsin renamed "Tigerton Dells" where the Posse Comitatus took over the local government? Ever hear about the urban legends of Aryan Nations building communities in the geographical area of Sandpoint, Idaho?

Well, I have, and I feel ashamed to find these people in our big tent. But they exist.

Our nuts are simply a polar version of their nuts.

Fred40
July 10, 2008, 01:39 PM
I know a lot of anti's (I'm from Massachusetts) and can tell you from personal experience that a lot of them, actually all of the anti's that I'm personally acquainted with, are wonderful people with the most sincere and upright of intentions. I've heard the saying that anti's want to feel safe and pro's want to be safe. IMHO, that's just pro-gun rhetoric. Everyone want's to actually be safe.
The real problem is much more deep-seeded than that. The state of American culture is on that is devoid of a sense of personal responsibility. The majority of the U.S. population wants to be legislated through life. They want laws telling them what to do and what not to do. They feel it's the government's job to care for them like a parent cares for a child. Heck, this is true on even on a very small scale. At the company I work for (manufacturing of engine parts) I have seen employees go to the HR manager because someone was "hogging the microwave in the breakroom". People don't want to work things out for themselves, take care of themselves, or fend for themselves. They want to pass that responsibility to someone who's "in charge".
That's one of the things that irritated me about my time in the Marines (which was an overall positive experience which I'm very proud of. I'm not now nor would I ever bash the Corps). When I was nearing my time to decide to re-up or get out, a lot of other guys were facing the same decision at the same time. A few of them made the decision to stay in solely because "it's so easy, you just do what you're told, and you get paid for it." They were brought up in that culture of the nanny-state, the society were you just follow the rules like a good boy and those who know better will take care of you.
This brings me to the largest, and truly the saddest difference between anti's and pro's. For anti's, all this makes sense. They think it is good and right, it's what's best for them, for their families, for society. They have lost all touch with the meaning behind a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Beyond that, they really don't feel capable of trusting themselves or taking care of themselves. When anti's say you shouldn't have a gun, what they are saying is they don't trust themselves to have guns, and since you couldn't possibly be better than them, you aren't to be trusted either. Leave all that to the people in charge. That's their job, not ours. That's what we pay them for.
Until anti's start to realize that they aren't helpless and are able to care for themselves without the assisitance of legislation, and until they are able to think for themselves without the guidance of the media, they will remain anti. But once they taste the freedom and sense of empowerment that comes with accepting personal responsibility, they will slowly join our side. God know's when, or if that day will ever come.

BINGO!

The Tourist
July 10, 2008, 01:49 PM
Fred40, I believe most of that, except for a section of America I just learned about on cable. It's called the "Garbage Designer" or a similar title.

He moved to Taos, Arizona during the art movement. But he's far from being just another lazy, unemployed slacker. His wife commented that she can always tell when ideas pop into his head. It's the continued wave of guys designing geo-homes decades before.

He's building these houses, and not just the fancy-schmancy suburban yuppie version of "green." He reports that he is not connected to sewage or the power grid, and yet his homes support a family of four--some food grown in the atrium of the house.

In just about every way I can think of, he's freer than I am.

He's taken the freedoms everyone has here in this country and actually applied them--not just talk about it.

If I had to choose, I'd rather pick this nut than some weekend hunter with a Weatherby and a copy of Shooting Times.

gfouts15
July 10, 2008, 01:57 PM
A) People who have lost a family member or close friend that has been killed/maimed/wounded by the misuse of a firearm.

Yep, and look at the damage one of those can do - Sarah Brady. :fire:

She and her ilk are consumed by a knee jerk reaction to a very traumatic event and can't get past it.

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