Anti-terrorist Surveillance Legislation


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gallo
July 10, 2008, 12:58 AM
Today congress passed legislation, which President Bush will sign into law, that extends to the executive branch the liberty to wiretap international calls and electronic communication. Did America just choose security at the expense of freedom?

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H088
July 10, 2008, 01:07 AM
Yes it did, this country is spiraling down hill and both sides of the isle are causing it.

GarandOwner
July 10, 2008, 01:09 AM
Unfortunatly that is how freedom dies, one small compromise at a time

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 10, 2008, 01:13 AM
I'm going to be getting ready pretty soon, if you understand my meaning.

borntwice
July 10, 2008, 01:21 AM
Unless you are calling Al-Queda, or are an online predator, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Chill out. The government is just trying to intercept terrorist communications.

H088
July 10, 2008, 01:25 AM
Unless you are calling Al-Queda, or are an online predator, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Chill out. The government is just trying to intercept terrorist communications.

Sounds good and all..... until you are labeled as one...........

Jorg Nysgerrig
July 10, 2008, 02:04 AM
I'm going to be getting ready pretty soon, if you understand my meaning.
No, no you aren't. Just stop.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 10, 2008, 02:05 AM
I'll stop when I'm good and ready. Thanks.

borntwice
July 10, 2008, 02:11 AM
Calm down, everyone. Unless you are a methamphetamine addict, an Al-Queda member, a child sex predator, or some similar ilk, you have nothing to worry about. Chill out, people. I don't know why you are so concerned about this issue, yet allow the liberals in your states and country to pass unbelievably indecent laws which protect the predators of our society.

We have a Supreme Court that believes that a violent child-rapist should not be eligible for the death penalty. Where is your outrage there? There are many other such issues that the so-called Supreme Court has decided which are unGodly and unrighteous, and make a mockery of decency.

If you want to raise hell, why not raise it about something worthwhile, like protecting children from sexual predators? We have sexual perverts on the Supreme Court, and no one says a word. Shame on America.

bogie
July 10, 2008, 02:13 AM
Bubba, I suspect that my father, a WWII veteran, remembers when people actually WORRIED about spies and such sending communications overseas to the enemy.

Today, it's profiling... Sigh...

Listen to 'em? Hell, I wanna kill 'em.

borntwice
July 10, 2008, 02:16 AM
bogie; you are "the man". Today, American men only worry about whether their penis will be erect, and whether their head is bald or not. What a sad state of affairs.

Tyris
July 10, 2008, 02:19 AM
You guys are seriously sugar coating this.

All over seas calls are intercepted and parsed for keywords and context searches, without warrents. Its common knowledge, read some the NSA's patents.

I'd wager that all domestic calls are as well. I have worked at a major cellular equipment manufacturer, on our orientation tour they pointed to a particular room where "the feds plug in" to tap. It was common knowledge and common practice, and we're talking back in 2000. I shudder to think how brazen they are now.

The 4th amendment is at best a dirty tampon.

-T

glockman19
July 10, 2008, 02:20 AM
I just got an e-mail from the ACLU that they will file as a viloation of 4th Amendment as soon as it is signed.

Isn't is clear that "Our Security, Our Safety" is always the reason for denying our rights.

BTW Obama voted for it and flip-flopped. many of his fellow democrats are not happy with his vote.

Tyris
July 10, 2008, 02:22 AM
Calm down, everyone. Unless you are a methamphetamine addict, an Al-Queda member, a child sex predator, or some similar ilk, you have nothing to worry about. Chill out, people. I don't know why you are so concerned about this issue, yet allow the liberals in your states and country to pass unbelievably indecent laws which protect the predators of our society.

So what happens when they add gun-owners to the above list?


We have a Supreme Court that believes that a violent child-rapist should not be eligible for the death penalty. Where is your outrage there? There are many other such issues that the so-called Supreme Court has decided which are unGodly and unrighteous, and make a mockery of decency.

If you want to raise hell, why not raise it about something worthwhile, like protecting children from sexual predators? We have sexual perverts on the Supreme Court, and no one says a word. Shame on America.

You've presented a classic straw-man argument.

-T

Crunker1337
July 10, 2008, 02:41 AM
They SAY they're only looking for terrorists... but can you honestly trust our government THAT much? I cannot, and will not, but then, I just consider myself a proud American.

Lurp
July 10, 2008, 02:44 AM
Calm down, everyone. Unless you are a methamphetamine addict, an Al-Queda member, a child sex predator, or some similar ilk, you have nothing to worry about. Chill out, people. I don't know why you are so concerned about this issue, yet allow the liberals in your states and country to pass unbelievably indecent laws which protect the predators of our society.

The same arguement can be used for unjustified searches of houses, cars property, etc... if your not doing anything wrong then you should have nothing to worry about. Just because I should have nothing to worry about at this time considering that I am a law abiding citizen it doesn't mean that in the future they wont extend that list. It's the same with gun rights, they slowly chip away until before you know it you in over your head. First it's wire tapping foreign calls, then its domestic calls, etc... it's a slippery slope my friend.

borntwice
July 10, 2008, 02:46 AM
You guys are over-reacting. If you would only think this thing through, you would realize that the NSA has probably been tapping phone conversations for decades, and that the real "straw-man" argument is that it hasn't been going on. The reality is that we have been protected from terrorist attacks, due to the vigilance of some patriots.

Lurp
July 10, 2008, 02:56 AM
If it's been going on for years, then you've already proved our point that the gov't has already out stepped their bounds considering theirs no law allowing it. If the gov't has been breaking the law for years already why should I believe that they are up to any good with the current legislation?

What you call "protected" from terrorist attacks I call the slow deterioration of our rights and freedoms.

Alex45ACP
July 10, 2008, 04:30 AM
Unless you are calling Al-Queda, or are an online predator, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Chill out. The government is just trying to intercept terrorist communications.

Yeah, right. Even if you think you donít have anything to hide nowÖ they will make it so that you do have something to hide.

The reality is that we have been protected from terrorist attacks, due to the vigilance of some patriots.

If itís about protection, why havenít the borders been secured, 8 years after 9/11?

This is just another power grab.

Solo
July 10, 2008, 04:34 AM
You guys are over-reacting. If you would only think this thing through, you would realize that the NSA has probably been tapping phone conversations for decades, and that the real "straw-man" argument is that it hasn't been going on. The reality is that we have been protected from terrorist attacks, due to the vigilance of some patriots.
Like that charming Richard Nixon, protecting America from those dirty hippies, godless liberals, and immoral communists.

Even though his time has passed, I am sure that there are many more upstanding man of comperable character in the government today, protecting, watching over, and listening to us all.

NukemJim
July 10, 2008, 06:11 AM
IBTL

Come on guys this is SOO off thread.

Please take it to APS

NukemJim

SDC
July 10, 2008, 06:17 AM
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." - Ben Franklin

hso
July 10, 2008, 06:47 AM
Pity it took 21 posts before someone remembered that this is a firearms forum.

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