[Rob87]

So, I've been trying to decide on a carry gun for some time now. Everyone has either told me to get a 642 or a P239, neither of which I want. I shot the P239 today, and I just didn't like it. It's too heavy for me, and the grip is too short for my hand.

The only way I'd buy a 642 is with the CT grip on it, which brings it up to $600. But, if I'm going to spend that much, I'd much rather go buy an SP101. I shot one of those, too, and even though the grip is just slightly too short for my hand, the recoil of the .357 magnum rounds was incredibly comfortable. (Oh, and the muzzle flash is pretty sweet, too.)

While I was at the Manchester Firing Line in Manchester, NH, I picked up a S&W 908S, which fit my hand really well. I wanted to buy a new one, but I found out from the shop I go to in MA that S&W discontinued them.

So, I thought about a 1911, but the only ones I'm aware of that I can get in MA are made by Para Ordnance, who I know nothing about, and S&W, whose 1911s start at like, $700.

The one gun I fell in love with is the PPK/S, but it's a .380, and the ballistics I've seen on .380s don't make me want the round at all.

So basically I'm down to:
- SP101
- S&W 908S, but it's discontinued
- Commander-size 1911, but it costs more than I want to spend
- PPK/S, but it's a .380

Sigh.

This is what I really want:
- Single-stack
- 9mm
- Compact frame (i.e. fits my hand like a glove, 3-4" barrel)

Too bad I can't get a Glock, Kahr, or Springfield in MA!

$%&%$^*&*^%&

[/rant]

[un_lucky]

I still have not found the perfect gun, but I'm sure havin fun with all the wrong ones.

[machinisttx]

The SP101 is a great gun and a Hogue monogrip will fix the dangling finger issue.

[Rob87]

I actually held a monogrip (not on a gun) in my hand, and it felt a little tight. :( Oh well.

[rantingredneck]

What he said ^.

[Boomerang]

How about a Smith 908?

You can buy any gun you want in MA. Dealers can only sell certain guns. No law against buying from private parties. Ask around and you will find whatever you want eventually.

[Rob87]

Well, I don't like the idea of buying a discontinued gun, as either I'll only find it used, and I'm not buying a self-defense gun used. The previous owner may not have taken care of it the way I will.

If it's disocontinued, I might not be able to repair it if need be in the future.

And I know that the restrictions are on the dealer, not the consumer, but the last thing I need is the AG suing me for trying to skirt around the law.

[Garzavalwolf]

How about the Sig P225? Or better yet the P6 police surplus (are they MA compliant?). The P6's are going for about $350. The use the same system that the P239 use but have a folded steel slide and NOT the solid Stainless slide that the P239 uses. I have found that many people who hold the P225/P6 seem to really like the way it feels in their hands, much more comfortable than the P239, the only way the P239 feels good in MY hands was with Nils grips (pricey but well worth the investment IMHO).

Though it is a discontinued gun, there are plenty of parts to be found (Sig Sauer at Exeter carries parts and you can send them the gun for repair/service).

Para Ordnance is pretty good but I think S&W would be better in a 1911.

[Rob87]

I like Sigs, but I don't like them enough to buy one. The grips don't fit my hands well. I feel like I'm holding a brick. :/

[Garzavalwolf]

It's subjective, I agree. I find that I really like them (I have more Sigs than anything else) and find them to be VERY accurate.

Try the 1911 platform. It tends to be very comfortable and a nice SA trigger makes it easy to be accurate.

Also if you like the 1911 platform, check out JMB's other little gem, the Browning Hi Power. Probably the most comfortable double stack 9mm in the world. Plenty of parts, mags and accessories. Also a SA trigger, though not nearly as nice as a 1911 trigger.

[Rob87]

I got to shoot one of those once, and I really liked it. Too bad it isn't compliant with the MA AG's laws.

You free-staters (as we M*******s refer to you) are really lucky.

[MrAnteater]

I truley feel sorry for my gun brothers in communist states.

Nothing wrong with a .380 if thats all you can afford or that meets your comfort level. There are plenty of dead BG's from .380 acp. Better to start out with something than to keep second guessing yourself and have nothing at all. Start out with a Bersa Thunder .380 and save yourself $150+ over the PPK if money is real tight, its almost the identical gun but with a better trigger.

[Rob87]

Let me put it this way: If the PPK/S were available in 9x19, I'd already have it, have put 1000 rounds through it, and wouldn't be here complaining.

But, the fact that the PPK/S is a .380 is keeping me from just going out and buying it.

I mean, the .380 isn't a good round, is it?

[Garzavalwolf]

.380/9mm Kurz will do it's job, if you do yours.

I will admit, if I can carry a bigger round, I will (I prefer 9mm,.40S&W, .45ACP and have felt well protected with 357Sig). If however all you can get is a GOOD .380 and you practice, practice, practice, you woll be "ok".

Other really nice .380's are the Kel-Tec, Sig P230 (can be found cheaper than the newer P232 and are almost the same), and the afore mantioned Bersa. I prefer the P230 over the other 2 but they ALL have a reliable track record (well I'm not so sure about the kel-Tec, someone with mote KT experience please chime in).

A note about the Walther PPK/S. The new S&W offering's are reliable as are the original German (French actually) offerings. The USA Interarms versions were hit or miss with respect to reliability. If you go that road, check its function. Please do NOT worry about parts if you get a German gun, there are ALSO plenty or spare parts avaliable.

BTW also check out the S&W M&P 9c, Walther P99c, Walther PPS for lightweight carry guns (I don't know if they are MA compliant though).

[Hook686]

S&W 908 discontinued, then take a look at the 3913TSW ... essentially the same pistol, but with a bit more class. On the other hand, you might contact the S&W web site:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/103890_thumb.jpg

the 908s is still listed:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/103890_thumb.jpg

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&pageSize=10&published=1&beginIndex=0&resultType=2&attributeName1=Caliber&attributeValue1=9mm&attributeValueType1=STRING&attributeValueOperator1=EQUAL&isFirearm=Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=12756&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Good luck. The S&W 3913 is a very fine pistol, its brother the 908 must be pretty fine also.

[Rob87]

I would not give up.

You can't get a Glock in your state because it holds more cartridges than 'THEY' allow? What is the reason or did I misunderstand your state law?

My husband has a Ruger SP 101 for a conceal carry gun. He has several CCW and open carry guns. The SP 101 is one that is always on him.

Catherine
Well, even MA residents aren't quite sure. If I remember correctly, the Glock doesn't have a mechanical safety, and the trigger pull is probably less than 10 lbs. In MA, light triggers are considered to be murderous psychopaths, and so they're banned.

Or it might have to do with the fact that Glock told the MA AG to go...well, you know. :P (Kahr and Springfield have done the same.)

[machinisttx]

and I'm not buying a self-defense gun used. The previous owner may not have taken care of it the way I will.

Que? You do realize that most guns likely aren't shot more than a box or two of ammo a year, and it's incredibly easy to check out a used gun, right?

[Rob87]

Yes. If I come across a deal good enough worth me getting over my OCD, I'll go for it. :)

[wyocarp]

I don't even want the perfect gun. I'm enjoying all the ones I'm buying though. Except one or two.

[Rob87]

Well, I'm a student, so money doesn't exactly multiply like bacteria for me. :)

[Rob87]

Anyone have anything to say about Para Ordnance 1911s? I'm looking at their website now, and I love these.

Full-size 1911s are slightly long for my hand (I have small hands). Normal 1911s are 8+1, but PO's OPS and CCO are both 7+1, so maybe those would fit my hand better.

Their SSP (full-size), LTC (commander), Carry (compact .45 ACP) and Carry 9 (compact 9mm) all look really great.

Anyone have any experience with them? The torture test Todd Jarrett did to a brand new out-of-the-box SSP was impressive (Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wL2QuFTLQ; Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFF0TbhgQMY).

[woad_yurt]

Why not a Mak? 9x18 should be plenty for getting out of a jam. It's single stack and thus flat and very easily concealed. It's as dependable as a revolver, probably the most reliable semi-auto ever. The prices have recently started to climb but they're still a great gun for the money. They don't break all that often, but if they do, parts are available. They're simple, rugged, small and easy to shoot, pleasant, actually.

[gtmerkley]

I'll 2nd that meet my friend mak.

[Malodorousroadkill]

.380 isn't a bad round. Its served well for nearly 100 years. If you're in love with the PPK, get it. While its not a front line caliber, its serves well for CCW and back up every day.

[Brass Rain]

Um, PPS is in 9mm. Single stack. Compact. Just what you want.

[Elvishead]

Walther PPS

[Boomerang]

PPS not mass compliant.

Here's some ideas.

Smith M&P compact
Smith sigma
Walther P99 compact
Ruger P345

[Old School]

If you like the thin concealablility of the 1911 and want a grip that has excellent ergonomics, try a Ruger P345. It is my absolute favorite auto.

[MaterDei]

Two words... 1911

[IndianaBoy]

This is what I really want:
- Single-stack
- 9mm
- Compact frame (i.e. fits my hand like a glove, 3-4" barrel)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/gnieman/EDC/EDC029_reduced.jpg

[Dees]

Try a CZ P-01. Not single stack but still compact with a good feel in the hand.

[Lonestar49]

...

Springfield Armory EMP SAO 1911 9+1 (single-stack mags) - 3 of them) 9mm

Totally dependable, VERY ccw, VERY accurate, just point and shoot - tack driver.. up close out to 63ft, max at my range. 115gr JHP, 124gr JHP, or 135gr JHP, your choice.. I like the 124gr, personally.

Comes with wood grips and real Night Sights and full grip that fits "most hands" and everything works right, out of the box.

Cost more, but you get it all.. in, The Right_Gun


Ls

Ps.. comes with "lifetime warranty" IF you ever have a need

3" bull barrel

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture231.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture224.jpg

Thin grip - single mag 9+1 9mm vs my other ccw *SIG P229/40 grip - double stack mag 11+1
(*pic of my P229R CT 9mm but same size)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture143.jpg

[41magsnub]

Keep in mind if you have a 357 and the recoil is too stout you can always shoot .38 special.

[tubeshooter]

Although it's not the greatest, I wouldn't turn down .380 because I thought it was a bad round. It's decent. I've always kind of liked it actually.


I would turn down .380 (and .32 also) because, for cheap practice, it can't touch 9mm for cost.

[Jenrick]

H&K P7M8. 9mm, 8 on tap, 1 in the gun. Full length barrel, short as a compact. Also a fine German piece engineering.

-Jenrick

[Deer Hunter]

S&w 59?

[welldoya]

How about a Browning HP ?

[wheelgunslinger]

I wouldn't want to have the contents of a 380's magazine dumped into me in 2 seconds.

Still, there are some good recommendations here. I'll concur with the suggestion that CZ's excellent ergonomics will overcome your OCD

[MedWheeler]

MrAnteater writes:
>>>>I truley feel sorry for my gun brothers in communist states.

Nothing wrong with a .380 if thats all you can afford or that meets your comfort level. There are plenty of dead BG's from .380 acp. Better to start out with something than to keep second guessing yourself and have nothing at all. Start out with a Bersa Thunder .380 and save yourself $150+ over the PPK if money is real tight, its almost the identical gun but with a better trigger.<<<<

I carried a PPK/S for a couple of years. I had every bit of confidence in myself with it. Notice that I don't say I had confidence in the gun itself. I do not have confidence in an inanimate object any more than anyone should fear one. But, with my level of training, both mental and practical, I was not uneasy armed with a .380.
Sadly, some tough times forced me to let that PPK/S go several years ago. Just the other day, though, I picked up a Bersa, which I feel pretty good about.
(Note: my primary HD weapon, though, is a Taurus 66. The Bersa and my older Undercover .38 are my "walkabout" guns.)

[waterhouse]

This is what I really want:
- Single-stack
- 9mm
- Compact frame (i.e. fits my hand like a glove, 3-4" barrel)

Are STIs available in Mass? If so look into the LS. It is in your price range. Otherwise the Sig 225/P6 is well within your price range and also meets your criteria. Bigger than the 239. Also if they are available in mass a HK P7 meets your criteria.

[Orange_Magnum]

Star Firestar M43 9mm. Buy one in like-new condition with a serial number above 2,000,000. Like the one in the picture. It's heavy for the compact size. Blued or starvel are both good.

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

have you considered para's LDA in 9mm? i dunno about mag capacity in taxachussetts but LDA is sweet!

[mljdeckard]

Just thinking out loud, but it seems that your criteria are just as limiting as MA's.

The one thing I will encourage you to bend on is price. You are talking about your life here. If you spend $2-300 more on the pistol than you thought you would, you won't care after one month if you have the right pistol.

Economic pistols do work for a lot of people. But I will tell people, adjust your budget to fit your needs, not the other way around. Eat some mac and cheese, sell another valuable posession, stall your cell phone bill for two weeks. The difference in cost you are talking about is not life changing.

[makarovnik]

Nothing wrong with a .380 with +P ammo. Try a P3At, PPK, Bersa CC, Sig 232, Kahr micro 9mm, makarov (9x18 of course) or a Officer's model 1911 in 9mm or .45acp.

You should have asked me first!

[Ceemack]

Except for a few 1911s, single-stack 9mms are all but non-existent. And with the 1911, you're carrying a .45-sized gun to shoot 9mm...not a good trade, in my opinion.

9mm Para is as small as I would go for defense. Maybe some of the hotter .38 Special rounds. But the .380 and the 9x18 are too light for my tastes.

Have you checked out the Walther P99? If it's legal in Mass., it manages to be fairly compact without having too small a grip. It's a little on the small side for me, but then again so is a 1911.

[borntwice]

I agree with Dees: try the CZ 75 P-01, or the PCR. The main difference is the P-01 has an accessory rail, while the PCR doesn't, making it a bit slimmer at the muzzle end.

[Shadow1198]

I second the Sig P6 idea. They are cheap right now. Sure the mags are expensive but, oh well. The nice thing about them is they have a bit more grip length than the P239. I, myself, did not like the P239 either (well with Hogue grips they are bearable) due to the short grip length. The P6/P225 has enough grip to get a comfortable full 3 finger grip, unless of course you have monster sized hands. I too wanted a single stack 9mm for a long time. I decided to go the euro P220 9mm route as I prefer the full size, however I've owned a P6 and loved it! They are great guns, have the same quality as any other Sig, dead nuts accurate, reliable, etc. The only issue to look out for is some of the earlier models had a slightly less than optimal feed ramp which can have issues feeding JHP's. I owned a later model P6 and it had no problem whatsoever feeding JHP's (in stock form).

[SgtKnuckles]

Rob87 ,... [Quote] Sigh.

This is what I really want:
- Single-stack
- 9mm
- Compact frame (i.e. fits my hand like a glove, 3-4" barrel) [Quote]

Sccy Industries Model CPX-1
http://www.sccyindustries.com/gun_cpx-1tt.html

~Fair Price~
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104396348
CPX-1 9MM, DAO,WITH SECOND STRIKE CAPABILITY, NEW IN BOX, LIGHTER TRIGGER PULL THAN KEL-TEC 9, MANUAL SAFTEY, 2- 10 RD MAGS, FINGER EXTENSIONS & FLAT BOTTOMS, BLACK POLY FRAME AND STAINLESS STEEL SLIDE, 3" BBL, WT-20 OZ EMPTY,MADE IN FLORIDA, LIFE TIME WARRANTY,

Which one is gives the best Value ...???

CPX-1 L 5.7 x H4.0 Stainless Steel Slide
http://www.sccyindustries.com/gun_cpx-1tt.html

PF-9 L5.85 x H4.3 Steel Slide
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.html

~Review~SKYY (SCCY) CPX-1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7y3wa7s3_o0

[shu]

Well, if you like the SP101 then go for it. Just get used to the two-finger-pinkey-under grip. You can;t go wrong with a SP101.

Alternatively, I had one of these a few years ago; gave it to my son.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/2200/swcompact9.htm
Don't remember exactly which model S&W it was, but indeed it was a single stack 9mm. Nice gun, good for carry, nothing bad to say about S&W, but I kinda favor Glocks.

[Boats]

If I had the misfortune of living in MA, I'd get even more into revolvers than I already am.

The Ruger SP-101 can be tuned into quite the fighting platform.

http://www.geminicustoms.com/Gallery/DSC02115_small.JPG

http://www.geminicustoms.com/Revolvers%20&%20Services.htm

[BlindJustice]

I read page 1, and will comment

You stated the Sig P239 was too heavy and it didn't fit your hand.
FYI - It's in the 27-28 oz range weight empty. Also did you try it with
the 10 rd magazine that has a plastic addition to the bottom of the mag
that sticks out the mag well so that the handle is elongated for the
5th/pinky digit. It's shown as an accessory on the SIg web site for the
239 models.

1911 Commander - S&W Scandium frame model is the same weight as a
239. It's also a bit thicker in the grip at 1.35 inches. The 239 is 5.2"

Para Ordnance - I have a friend with a P14, def. feels thicker than my
S&W 1911 5" Bbl. and the S&W has much better detail machining and finish
- no wonder Paras don't hold as good of resale value.

PPK/S - almost the same size as a Commander.

[icecorps]

Para-Carry 9. 9 rounds of 9mm in a 1911 style single-stack.

[Rob87]

Thanks for all of the responses. Sorry for my delayed response; I've been busy.

Unfortunately, many of the suggestions I either can't get in Taxachusetts, or are difficult to find.

At this point, I'm going to be going to a range with some people from www.northeastshooters.com (great to join if you're in the NE, especially if you're in MA) and they're bringing a 442 (I haven't tried a 442 yet), a Glock 19 (which I haven't tried, either), and a carry-size Kimber (which'll be great, since I can figure out if I want a Para Carry or something).

I need to move to NH. A Kahr would be perfect for me, but you can't get them here.

[Phil DeGraves]

Smith 3913 or 3914. Even if they are discontinued, S&W warranties them forever and parts are common. Used ones are available reasonably priced and I believe they are allowed in Mass.

[TNT.45]

Sig P6 under $300 bucks how can you go wrong with that...?

[bill123]

I've got the 908 and 3913 ls and the emp. Get the emp. Bout the size of a Bersa 380

[esq_stu]

I don't think there's suct a thing as a "perfect gun." Or rather, there isn't a gun that stays perfect for very long. Something better comes along or you just want something different or your circumstances change.

That's why I'm always buying guns and gun parts.

The closest thing for me has been the Kahr PM9. Except when I want higher capacity, or a revolver. I'd say the PM9 has stayed perfect the most days in a row for me.

[TimboKhan]

Springfield Armory EMP SAO 1911 9+1 (single-stack mags) - 3 of them) 9mm


I am shocked that it took 33 posts for anyone to mention this gun. I am not particularly interested in the EMP myself, but the ones I have and shot and handled were superb guns.

The .380 that you can shoot is better than the .357 you can't. Is it something of an anemic round? Yes, but that doesn't mean that it isn't effective. On the whole, I think there are better choices, but I wouldn't feel unprotected with a .380 either. In fact, I own a Kel-Tec P3AT!

Used guns are a perfectly valid way to get what you want, as long as you take the time to inspect the gun properly instead of getting new gun fever. Read through this and other gun forums and you will see plenty of complaints about new guns. Don't worry excessively about how much it has been shot. Properly cared for (which is generally evident on inspection) most all guns will outlive you. Even improperly cared for isn't a death sentence if you know what your doing. I bought a Taurus PT-99 (very cheaply) that had tons of holster wear and mud on it, and darned if it wasn't one of the most accurate pistols I have ever had. Ran like a champ, too. I sold that gun, and I sort of regret it, although I have a stainless PT-99, so I don't regret it that much.

From what you have said, I have to agree with the suggestion for a Makarov. Between that and the EMP, I would be somewhat surprised if you didn't like one or the other. While not particularly small, you might also consider a Browning Hi-Power. It's more of a service pistol, but it is easily concealed and has a great reputation.

[Hawk]

I noticed this on STI's web site late last year:

Update on Massachusetts: Their approval committee will be meeting about mid-December to decide which STI guns will be eligible for sale there. We’ll keep you posted.

Wonder how that worked out?

[Black Knight]

Forget about "finding" the right gun, just enjoy the seach. Experience all the flavors. Keep those you like. After more than 25 years I still enjoy my search.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'd opt for the 1911 platform. Probably a Commander sized, just because I don't have one and really want one. If I find a Colt in this size that needs me, I'm sure I'll buy it.

I'm not a revolver guy in any way, and I've got only one. But I must admit, I'd like to have a Ruger SP-101 myself.

[chriske]

For a dozen years or so, I owned a gun that would fit Rob87's needs, I think.:
A STAR model BM.
Comact, 1911-ish, single stack, single action 9mm. Never ever jammed on me & I could easily keep a magazineful (8 rds) inside 3-4" at 15 meters
In Us gun magazines, it had an excellent reputation at the time. I seem to remeber Dean Grenell calling them a "best buy for the money" or some such.
I think they are no longer being made however. Shame. Maybe secondhand ?

(Yes, Dean Grenell.. that's how old I am):rolleyes: