[H088]

Some guy is running around illegally killing elk in my area, I was wondering how you guys feel about respecting laws in regards to species protection.

Do you obey them? Or do you feel you should just be able to kill what ever you want?

I personally would like to have him thrown in jail because they were just starting to come back around my area.

[PotatoJudge]

I have issues with some game laws, but for the most part they're needed to coordinate management and promote fair hunting. It's the other junk the government throws in that makes following the law while hunting increasingly difficult, and it's keeping people from taking up the sport. I have heard some hardcore trophy hunters say that if someone can't/won't keep up with current law and follow it to the letter they have no business hunting, but they're wrong for a number of obvious reasons.

Sounds to me like your elk poacher needs to be put away.

[MutinousDoug]

Without game laws and restrictions on take there would be no big game to hunt. How many years did it take to virtually eliminate bison from the western US? 40 years 1850 to 1890? When the population of the USA was 31 million or so.
Poachers are thieves.

[shadowalker]

Sounds like if you know for sure the person is poaching and know who it is you should report him to the authorities.

There are certain areas where they aren't aggressively managing certain game but the way to deal with it is to get the regulations and laws changed, not go outside them.

[steveno]

I didn't know there was such a thing as legal poaching?

[paintballdude902]

i kinda have a hipacratic view one it

i cant stand guys that shoot deer/bear with out a permit/out of season/going over limit

but i really dont care if they shoot squirrels and foxes heck i shoot foxes all year at the barn jsut because weve had problems with rabbies and one tried to attack a boarded and did attack a horse which had to be put down

so i think it depends i also have sympathy if you need food to feed your family i have no problem if you take what you need to put food the bellys of your kids


but if you just like killing the animals or just want racks/backstraps(an incident around here) you deserve to be arrested

[41magsnub]

PBD, you mean you do no harm?

I think you mean hypocritical :)

[DWFan]

I guess I'm going to sound like a hypocrite here. I don't condone poaching but I did it in my youth when my father was in the hospital and we needed food on the table.

[JohnnyOrygun]

Poaching for fun is wrong. But, if my family were hungry and I had no choice, then it wouldn't bother me to take an animal. Someone in our area is killing elk and leaving the carcasses on the ground to rot:cuss: and they very recently shot and left a trophy 6x6 :banghead::fire::cuss: I hope the authorities catch them... then they should be neutered! That is just wrong and I hunt that area for elk, how I would have LOVED to get a trophy 6x6 in my sights

[yesit'sloaded]

I think that as long as the game laws are left to the conservation officers and wildlife guys they are for the good of the hunting community and should be followed for the common good of all the hunters in the area. Fuzzy feel good laws about killing bambi are junk. Reasonable game laws are what brought many game species back to a sustainable population in many areas. I obey all game laws and feel that others should too. If you have to kill something out of season that is what depredation permits are for, they are not hard to get around here if you have a legitimate reason.

[MutinousDoug]

I agree that game management often goes overboard in enforcement and does little to preserve small game numbers from year to year save cataloging take and projecting future yields (not a useless service), but protection of big game habitat and management of harvest is a valuable job paid for by hunting license fees that poachers are getting a free ride on. Fark them :mad:.

[Harve Curry]

A hunter and I witnessed 3 guys shoot a bull we had called in. They were down a bluff below us. Thing was they drove cross country through BLM Wildeness and shot the bull with a high power repeater rifle during a muzzleloader hunt in a primitive weapons only, unit 13. We called the 1-800 number, plus BLM and couldn't get a officer to respond until three days later. I found out later that investigators found the guys/truck in Washington state. They'd crossed 3 state lines with illegal game violating the Lacey Act.
The hunter and I were willing to travel and testify and were not bashful about letting the authorities know it. This was a 7x8 big heavy beamed bull. Turns out a BLM officer was letting these non residents use his PO box to get resident tags. The case was dropped, not prosecuted . They told me there wasn't enough evidence. I lost alot of faith in the system on that experience. But if any outfitter/guide messes up they will bury you.

[22-rimfire]

Poaching is stealing from us all. All poaching needs to be neutralized. Game Wardens are few and it is easy to poach and get away with it. It is also very dangerous for a warden to move on a poacher. They know they are doing something illegal. However, the book needs to be thrown at them.

Report a poacher!

A while back a man was prosecuted for shooting a really large whitetail buck in Cades Cove (Smokey Mt National Park). His whole life was ruined... lost his job, went to jail, lost his hunting priviledges, and lost his firearms and vehicle.

[skinewmexico]

The fish and game department wherever you live probably has an 800 number to report people. Call them.

[Greg.B]

If you saw someone stealing from a store, would you report it?

As skinewmexico stated, most states have a toll free number for reporting poachers, and in most cases you can remain anonymous.

Poaching is a crime; while we may not agree with all game laws, they are still laws. If you want to try to change them, go about it the correct way.

[Sunray]

"...we needed food on the table..." That isn't poaching. You kill only what you need with no concern for the size of the antlers. I've known people who would never have had meat if they didn't hunt. They'd have gladly traded a venison roast for a cheap cut of beef, just for a change.
Poaching is hunting out of season, etc. for alleged sport.
"...and left a trophy 6x6..." Or took the antlers and left the meat and hide, bust 'em.

[wheelgunslinger]

poachers suck.
It's some sort of white trash sport where drinking and guns and game usually come together, at least around here.

One of my friends had deer in his yard and some doofi pulled up on the roadside and started blasting away at it. With the house as a backstop.
I've had poachers shoot a gate lock off to get into places, leave deer with only the antlers removed, or just leave them altogether untouched.

They make us all look bad and really deserve what the Game Warden will hand them.

Drop a dime. Poachers suck.

[Capitaine Nemo]

I believe that you should have the right to shoot any animal on your property. In fact you should have the right to do whatever you want on your property as long as you don't cause any harm to others. I also believe that management would me more efficient if left to land owners. Government should sell all public land and let the market allocate it to whatever use, like everything else.
I was told that some private ranch in CA or OR had the biggest elk in the US and they don't allow hunting on their land. It's their property and their choice to ban hunting. Would you allow poachers to kill animals on your property for trophy or just for the "fun" of killing? I wouldn't, but if I owned a few hundred or thousand acres of land I would probably use the land for a hunting business.

[Selfdfenz]

Government should sell all public land and let the market allocate it to whatever use,

You have to be kidding? Right?

S-

[DRYHUMOR]

I live in South Carolina. We have the longest deer season in the US and can harvest 2 per day. Landowners (farmers) can get permits to take deer off season to save their crops.
I have no use whatsoever for poachers and trespassers. In fact I have confiscated stands off of my property and property I have leased. I always figured if they wanted them back, I would tell them to meet me at the sherriffs office so they coud ID them and I could prosecute.
That said, when the zombie ninja bears attack, poaching will become a moot point. Survival will reign. If/when stability returns, then presumably the laws of the land will return as will.
EFFECTIVE management benefits the annimal and the human population.
And don't even get me started on birth control for deer.

[Art Eatman]

Staying with the subject (highly recommended) of poaching, it's not just illegal. It's unethical. On private land it's also criminal trespass. And, as in one example above, it can also be reckless endangerment.

Whether or not you know who is doing the poaching, alert a game warden. If you do know who is doing the poaching, report him.

Texas--and other states--don't call it "Operation Game Thief" for no reason. Stealing is stealing.

Leave the "food on the table" out of it; that's not what this thread is about.

Art

[Zeke/PA]

While we don't always agree with our Game Management officials and their methods we still must respect the law.
A game law violator steals from all of us.
Wanton waste is un- forgiveable.
Zeke

[deerhunter61]

If someone is killing game out of season for any reason other than to put food on the table they need to be prosecuted to the fullest! I might not agree with all of the game laws but they are the law. For those that do not like them get active and try to get them changed.

As far as the government selling all of the public land to private owners...please. Public hunting land is the only way some people can hunt. Otherwise the only people who could afford to hunt would be the wealthy.

[wyocarp]

Okay, here is a different twist. I don't think the animals are the government's to protect. And I don't feel that someone shooting an animal without a tag is "stealing" from me. I haven't bought into the whole poaching thing but I have grown up in a state where I know of a lot of people who shoot animals and eat them out of season and without a tag. I have absolutely no problem with it.

You can all blast me, but that is the way I feel. I wouldn't call the game and fish for nothing. The only thing I'll give them is a hard time.

[deerhunter61]

wyocarp, if not the governement then who? If the government had not stepped in years ago we would not have anything to hunt.

Years ago when I went to hunt with my Grandfather in AR I watched as "hunters" slaughtered deer just to kill them. Made me sick.

Do you really believe we can without the government stepping in keep from wiping out game animals? I have seen areas where poaching has wiped out the deer population. And based on your stance that is ok with you?

I look forward to your response.....

The only way to control this that I know of is for government intervention.

[buck460XVR]

Okay, here is a different twist. I don't think the animals are the government's to protect. And I don't feel that someone shooting an animal without a tag is "stealing" from me. I haven't bought into the whole poaching thing but I have grown up in a state where I know of a lot of people who shoot animals and eat them out of season and without a tag. I have absolutely no problem with it.

wyocarp...like all others here, you certainly are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But in my opinion it all comes down to ethics and respect of the law.....and in my experience, those that poach have no ethics or respect for the law and it doesn't end with the illegal shooting of animals. It continues with trespassing, reckless endangerment, theft and vandalism not only in the woods, but in your neighborhood too. Sorry, a criminal is a criminal...... robbers don't just steal from banks, pushers break other laws besides just selling illegal drugs and poachers tend to break laws other than bag limits. Your friend the poacher, that shoots every deer he can, will be the first one to steal your wallet iffin you leave it layin' around. Greed is greed.

Wild animals belong to all of us, not just they guy who puts a bullet thru it. The only reason most wild game animals are even around anymore is because of regulated seasons and the money that license fees generate. So yes, poachers taking game out of season or above and beyond legal bag limits are stealing from all of us....and they know it. That's part of the motivation for most poachers. Most poachers operate under the influence of greed, not need. No one here would deny some poor slob a squirrel outta season to feed his starving family, but that usually isn't the situation. Not in America, not anymore. Many poachers have as much money as the average Joe and spend more of it to kill something illegally than many of us spend to take game legally. They just get a rush from killing something and doing it illegally only adds to the rush. Along with their greed to kill/take something, goes the wanton waste of the animals or parts of animals that doesn't fit in their already full freezer. Iffin you don't believe this, ask your local game warden.....

Your condoning of your friends poaching only tells me you support/endorse the criminal things they do......makes me glad you aint my neighbor.

[JohnnyOrygun]

The poachers were are having a problem with in our area are just shooting the animals and leaving. They recently shot an elk and left it, local game officials came upon the animal and it was still alive, so they had to put it down. At least in this case the meat wasn't wasted, the game wardens took the meat to a local shelter.

As hunters we have an ethical responsibility to hunt and kill animals in a humane way. Just shooting animals and leaving as these guys are doing really makes me angry :fire:, they should really be neutered if caught. We don't need them passing on their genes or teaching future generations to disrespect the law and treat animals in such a way.

Anyhow that is how I feel about it (Guess I feel rather strong about this issue)

[H088]

Yea thanks for the responses, hunting isn't something I am personally interested in but don't really have a problem with it as long as its in a controlled manner, where the populations of all the species are kept healthy, the animal is killed as cleanly and quickly as possible and meat/other usable parts are harvested from it.

I was just curious if most hunters felt the same way I do, which this thread indicates as yes.

[Harve Curry]

I think as you see more people being less able to buy food with their dollar. Hunting fees being on the high side when you figure $ per pound. Then we'll see more game shot out of season or shot without paying the state their fees. And like I stated in my above post, it's a corrupt system, not wholly bent on the betterment of wildlife.

[yenchisks]

How do we know ,who's doing the shooting maybe it's a goverment conspiracy,rrrrrrr a space man:uhoh:

[AJAX22]

I think we should make a distinction between poaching and hunting without tags.

If they're not just wantonly killing, but actually need the meat for food I can't find fault with that.

It doesn't sound like that is the case in your situation, and I wholeheartedly support you turning them in to the game wardens. People who don't have respect for the kill rate very poorly with me.

However, hunting without tags happens, my grandfather did it, and his grandfather did it (he actually died of a heart attack while packing a kill out of the woods). They would have prefered to have had tags, and licences, and been in season, but their family was hungry and they were poor.

They didn't do it all the time, and they wern't proud of it, but the did what they had to do and they didn't steal or beg or ask the government to take care of them.

If the 'easy' way of feeding your family is to cary a 200lb kill through the woods on your shoulder for ten+ miles, then I'm not going to judge you.

However, If they dont need the food and are just wasting meat shooting animals for trophies or just to see them die... well that is barbaric, wastefull, and compleatly inexcusable. It's actually quite insulting to the people who are out trying to put food on the table.

I'm not saying everyone's doing it out of nececity, nor am I saying that its compleatly ok to ignore the game regulations.

I just don't feel comfortable painting all 'poachers' with the same brush

[Greg.B]

I'm going to stay away from the part of this topic that's talking about taking an animal out of season or with disregard for regulations because of a need for food scenario. That's a completely different topic than what most of us here are discussing, and doesn't seem to be the question of the OP.

Although there are state government's whose system of managing wildlife isn't perfect, they are, for the most part effective. Compare today's population of many game animals to those of the 1930's and 40's, and you will see the effect of wildlife management through government agencies.

Take for example, the white tailed deer, which seems to have become the main species of discussion in this thread even though poaching applies to all game and non-game species. Around the early 1900's, the national population of white tailed deer was thought to have been around 300,000 animals. Today, that population is estimated at nearly 30 million. Something must have changed that caused this resurgence, so what was it?

Hunting regulations and conservation programs were put in place and enforced. These were meant to do what? To prevent the commercial exploitation and illegal harvests of these animals in order to allow the population levels to grow to the sustainable capacity of the land. In short, they established hunting seasons, bag limits, and made poaching a crime.

In Indiana, it's estimated that as many fish and game (and non-game) animals are taken every year by poachers as are by legal sportsmen.

Poaching is a crime which affects every legal sportsman in this country. In areas where poaching is a major problem, the price of tags increase in order to fund increased law enforcement efforts and conservation programs, bag limits are decreased in order to maintain the sustainable population, and we see fewer animals and lower quality animals in those areas.

Even in areas of the country where poaching exists at less than a severe level, it affects us. It becomes more and more difficult to obtain permission to hunt on private lands. This is due to many reasons, including disregard for fish and wildlife laws. Someone said that all the public land should be sold to private parties. That would mean that many people would not even have a place to hunt, either through not being able to find a landowner to give permission, or not being able to afford to pay a lease.

Someone else said that they think they should be allowed to take any animal on their property. Does that animal stay on your property at all times? If not, then who owns it? You, or the owner of the other land it frequents? What if some of that land is public land, or it crosses a public roadway or beds on someone elses easement?

Do you see where I'm going with this? We all 'own' these animals, and that's one of the reasons that these laws and regulations to prevent poaching are in place; to protect their population levels and ensure that they are here for future generations to enjoy. Without the laws and regulations, we wouldn't have the opportunities to legally pursue fish and game that we do today.

[HunterGirl]

Growing up in a large extended hunting family - I had one cousin who just couldn't wait to get out to hunt. So his dad took him out with the rest of the uncles and older cousins before he was old enough to hunt.

It wasn't about having enough meat in the freezer. He just didn't want to be left out. He wanted to get the biggest buck. So any time we made a drive - take a wild guess who would take any spot that would be considered prime.

He was a poacher and I even understood that at 10. It always made me angry - and he's like that to this day. It's why I won't hunt with him anymore.

[Art Eatman]

The question of the OP was about opinions on laws concerning species protection. And, for this thread, "poaching" is about the laws as they exist.

Again, this is not about who owns wildlife, nor providing food for a poor man's table. Start a new thread on one of those separate subjects if you wish.

Stay with the thread topic...

Art

[koja48]

Poaching is illegal, period! It depletes the resource, it robs law-abiding hunters, it gives "hunting" (tho poachers are NOT of that select group) a bad name in general. I'd turn-in any such scum I encountered in a heartbeat (and have & will continue to do so).

[Kingcreek]

Game management is one of the very few uses of my tax money that I don't resent. They may get a bit beauraucratic at times, I suppose that is inevitable.
The penalties for poaching are usually pretty severe, and they should be.

I drove by my hay field one morning before hunting season to find that someone had drove into a locked metal tube gate and busted it down and drove over it. split one post and broke the other. I followed the truck tracks out into the hay to where a headless buck carcass lay spoiling. Some $#^@ had apparently shot it from the road and then drove in to get it. I would have liked to have caught that guy.

[brighamr]

"I was wondering how you guys feel about respecting laws in regards to species protection"

I feel the same way I did when i responded to the other 15 poaching threads this month.

[Ankeny]

Poaching is illegal, period! Yup. Nuff said.

[Skoghund]

Poaching is theft. Its intresting reading this thread when people say that they poach to put food on the table . Is this the USA, the richest nation on earth we are talking about. I'm glad i live in a good socialist country. I've never heard any one poaching because of lack of food here.

[JERRY]

too many people shoot animals to feed thier ego instead of thier family.

calling somebody like that a hunter is a stretch of the word and a dis-service to those who do it for food and proper conservation.

[ronwill]

Unrestrained hunting destroys wildlife for future generations. Controlled, legal hunts help strengthen these populations and preserve hunts for the future. Poachers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[moooose102]

poaching elk, put him in jail! have you notified your natural resources department yet? it isnt up to you to catch him. in fact, that would be quite dangerous. that is what our game wardens get paid to do. now, if you stumble across him doing the deed, that would be a different story. if you do indeed stumble across him poaching, use your head and cell phone to call it in. if you must stop and hold him, bide your time well and catch him without his gun in his hands. but be wary, he knows if he gets caught, he will likely spend some time "in captivity". he may very well be packing a concealed wepon. he probably will not go quietly. so if possible, get backup, or let the game warden handle it.if the guy is trying to feed his family, he should do it on some other game, not elk. if i came across a poor man just trying to feed his family, who could not afford the supermarket, and was poaching anything up to a deer, i probably would not turn him in. mostly because i have had relatives who had to do this from time to time. they did not make a habit out of it. but when it was NECESSARY, they did what they had to do. and with me, that is fine. but an elk is more than a hardship case. there is enough meat on one of those to feed a family for some time, not just to get through till a little more money came around. plus, if they take the antlers, it is trophy hunting, not meat hunting. if all they are after is the meat, they will shoot it, cut off the backstraps and rear quarter, and leave the rest lay. it is much easier to transport a cooler full of meat that a whole deer carcass. let alone an elk carcass. and the antlers are the least of it if you are going out for food.

[Harve Curry]

"A hunter and I witnessed 3 guys shoot a bull we had called in. They were down a bluff below us. Thing was they drove cross country through BLM Wildeness and shot the bull with a high power repeater rifle during a muzzleloader hunt in a primitive weapons only, unit 13. We called the 1-800 number, plus BLM and couldn't get a officer to respond until three days later. I found out later that investigators found the guys/truck in Washington state. They'd crossed 3 state lines with illegal game violating the Lacey Act.
The hunter and I were willing to travel and testify and were not bashful about letting the authorities know it. This was a 7x8 big heavy beamed bull. Turns out a BLM officer was letting these non residents use his PO box to get resident tags. The case was dropped, not prosecuted . They told me there wasn't enough evidence. I lost alot of faith in the system on that experience. But if any outfitter/guide messes up they will bury you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To add to my #12 post above:
These guys were caught red handed, turned in and got away with it.
Witnesses were more then me and another hunter. There was a camp full plus the managers of the ranch whom the poachers had known and asked to use their 4 wheelers to retreive the elk.
Several calls were made that morning to the 1800gamethief number from the ranch phone. Cell phones don't work there. Half a dozen of us watched the poachers in our binoculars leave down the main road during the late afternoon hunt with the elk loaded in their pickup.
I was assigned a case number for operation game thief and kept calling them every 3 months for a couple of years. One BLM officer whom I have a great respect for, came to my house and interviewed me about it.

These poachers were the worst kind of offenders. We could have got shot for getting the lcense number and their descriptions. Then when we gave it to NMG&F all we got was ourselves harrassed and agravation. The game warden was more interested in catching a outfitter and said so. He told the bear hunter with me he could fine him for not tagging his bear correctly, a technicality. Told me he could fine me for driving to get the Lic no. of the poachers.
The BLM officer that was letting the poachers use his resident P.O. Box resigned and got a better job working for the US Fish & Wildlife. G&F board is political appointments reflected by who is the governor. I know some retired G&F and BLM whom are cut of a different cloth and are good men. But to many of the present employees are not and I'll sign my name to it.