[Futo Inu]

I'm thinking of getting a full-sized "wonder nine" 9x19 semi-auto pistol if the standard capacity mag ban sunsets next year, and the mag prices thus drop (or become existent at all). 2 questions:

1. In your opinion(s), would any of the post-ban guns, like the Walther P99, Springfield XD, etc., have anything on some of the older wondernines, like the BHP, Sig, HK, CZ75, Beretta, etc.? Can anyone break down the capacities of all the wondernines? After all, the more the capacity, the more wonderful a wondernine, right? In other words, how many *will* the XD, P99, etc., hold compared with the Glock and Beretta's big ol 17 round mags? I think I'll probably get a CZ75 or BHP because they fit my hand better, especially with thin grips, but I want to know how much capacity I might be sacrificing in some of the more interesting pistols like the polymer ones (the XD and P99 in particular - how many rounds do the LE mags hold in 9mm?). This will be a fun range plinker, but occasional carry gun. Oh and the trigger on a BHP beats the CZ75 in a standard gun, corrrect?

2. How does the Taurus knock off of the Beretta 92 compare in quality and price? If I go this route, which would you recommend? They're the same gun, except Taurus is just leechin off, I mean, reverse engineering, the Beretta design, correct? Mags are 100% interchangeable, no?

[Skunkabilly]

20 round mags for the Beretta 92
18 round mags for the USP9's

Wait...
hold on...
where it is..

.
.
.
ah...here it is.
.

REEEEHAWWW!!!

[Tacblack]

You can't buy just one!!!!!!

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Q1. Most Wonderbread guns are designed for 15 rounds- Sig, Beretta, Ruger, S&W. A couple, like the P99 and Baby Eagle do 16 from the factory. For flush fit mags of normal style, 17 seems to be the limit, like the Glock or some questionable 92 aftermarket mags.

To get beyond that you either have to go with guns like the Steyr GB or VP70, both long out of production, or use mags that stick out of the bottom of the gun. If you're willing to go that way, the 13 round BHP will easily do 17 with S. African mags and the Glock 17 will go to 19.

To answer the core of your question, NO, there hasn't been any sort of great leap forward since 1994. Nearly all of the guns introduced in the last ten years distinguish themselves only in the cheapness of their plastic construction. Same capacity.


Q2. Taurus guns aren't reversed engineered, their made on older Beretta machinery. Most parts interchange, EXCEPT the mags. When the Tauruses were $300, they were an obvious alternative to Beretta. But now days the prices are often within $50 of each other. The Beretta has a slightly better rep and is better looking (huge Taurus trigger guards). Beretta mags are common and cheap.

[HSMITH]

Para-Ordnance Govt length in 38 Super, 20 round flush fit mags!!!!!!!!!

[WonderNine]

Nearly all of the guns introduced in the last ten years distinguish themselves only in the cheapness of their plastic construction.

Couldn't agree more, of course the pro-plastic people are gonna argue that it saves weight and looks more uber.

[Bren]

I get 15 and 17 round BHP mags right now for $19. CZ mags were no problem either.

With the ban lifted and if we can pay LEO prices, I will own a Glock again, and a Walther and so on. Bren

[dsk]

I think of more concern than the ban sunset is who we might get for a president afterwards. I'm hearing that Howard Dean makes ultra liberals look more like conservatives. You should've seen the overjoyed response he got from some of Seattle's most left-wing wackos this week.

[Big Mike]

I'm not holding my breath...but...I'll buy more 6906 mags...Mike

[Matthew_Q]

There are no 'post ban' or 'pre ban' handguns. Only magazines.

You can get any of the guns mentioned NOW, but will be able to get new, full capacity magazines for them after the ban sunsets.

I'd go with the CZ75B, only because I'm planning to get one next month anyway! I had a Beretta 92FS, and liked it, but it felt too bulky. The CZ feels better to me. As far as the trigger of the CZ compared to the BHP, I've heard the BHP is crisper, but heavier. (comparing single action pulls, that is) And for the CZ, you can get preban 15rd mags for less than $30 if you know where to look. ;)

M@

[Futo Inu]

Thanks guys - I'll probably go with the CZ75, with a decocker (forget which model that is) - I was just looking for an excuse to get a SigPro, XD, or Walther P99, I guess - maybe I'll get one of each - a CZ and one of the polymers - I want to get a very accurate one with a nice trigger first though, so that keeps bringing me back to one of the original SA (or DA/SA) wondernines like the CZ and BHP. Hmm now I'm more curious about the HK 9's ergonomics, however - damn, too many choices. Yes I know there aren't pre-ban guns, but I don't even want to get a gun that has the possibility of mags being sky-high 10 or 20 years from now, even if they're cheap now, until I've had an opportunity to acquire 6 or 8., which I don't want to do until I actually have the pistol in hand - hence waiting until next year. Plus I have to save for it. :) And BTW, polymer is inexpensive to manfacture, yes, but it's not "cheap" in the sense that it lacks any functionality/durability compared to steel - that's just a fact. However, since I personally don't notice a small weight difference when carrying, I don't care whether it's plastic or not, UNLESS the construction leads to an increased mag capacity, which I thought was possibly the case, given the Glock's reasonable grip size and superior-when-it-came-out 17 round capacity. (Actually, the increased capacity is much more important for range plinking fun than carrying - the less often you have to reload, the better). But as pointed out above, a Para in .38 super holding 20 in a steel frame shoots that idea to crap (though a double stack 1911 is a tad bulky).

[BigG]

I think the Glock 17/19 has it all over the competition, but that just me.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Matthew,

Where are you finding $30 CZ mags? I searched for awhile yesterday and $55 was the best I found.

[Drifting Fate]

I'm going to grab a Sig P226 and Walther P99 but that's just me.

Well, at least I'll grab the magazines, will take awhile for the guns to accumulate.

And, no, the new stuff isn't any better than what's already out there.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Actually, is there any current, popular wondernine pistol that is really a huge improvement for the shooter over a 1935 BHP or a 1970 Beretta 92?

I guess you could argue the 1982 Glock trigger is an improvement, but only if you believe having the same trigger as the BHP without a safety is progress.

[vanbeast]

Plastic does look more uber.

If you don't care about flush-fit, you can modify a 30rd Taurus mag for the XD :) :) :) Cost: about $18. Works pretty well, too.

[Matthew_Q]

Expert,

Check out Gunbroker, search for CZ, and you'll find a guy selling mags by the name of Reddogxx. He should have hicaps around that price.

[BHPshooter]

I see that it's already been touched, but I will again: 17-round mags for the BHP for 19 bucks. I'd like to see you get a 17-round Glock mag for that. :neener:

And yes, they work fine.

Speaking of trying to beat Gluuuck in pure reliability, my BHP has been 100 percent, except for two (2) of my newbie handloads.

And you can look at my BHP without going :barf:

:D

Wes

Postscript: this post was made in the spirit of humor. Please do not be offended.

[10-Ring]

18 round mags for my USP 9...that would be nice! At less than $100 each would be nicer!

[Navy joe]

Looking forward to 16 buck 17 rdrs for my 17/34. Of course this ban will decrease my net worth by about 2K but I don't care.

In my fantasyland I dream that Steyr would send over some more mags for the GB and then I'd go buy one.
Extreme fantasyland is eventually getting a .38Super/TJ open gun, but the mags will still be expensive. Of course so will the gun. You can't get much more wondernine than 27+ rounds of dot-sighted big boom though.

If you don't care about flush-fit, you can modify a 30rd Taurus mag for the XD :) :) :) Cost: about $18. Works pretty well, too.

I hope that mag still works in the Taurii or you have done a very illegal thing ;).

I guess you could argue the 1982 Glock trigger is an improvement, but only if you believe having the same trigger as the BHP without a safety is progress. :D

I dunno, I kinda like both my BHP and Gluck triggers. The difference with the BHP is that there is a fine line between a really sweet trigger and a fully automatic handgun. 500 some rounds of +p will help you cross that. Really fast cyclic rate. Waiting on parts from C&S.

[vanbeast]

I hope that mag still works in the Taurii or you have dane a very illegal thing . Sure does!

[varoadking]

Wonder why folks insist on making up childish names for pistols they don't like?

[Navy joe]

Hey VArk, I kinda like my Glucks, shot both of them tonight at IDPA, but I find that even though I now own the tactical tupperware there is waaay too much fun to be had rankling the nerves of the kool-aid drinking faithful. If you can't make fun of your own kind who can ya pick on?

Van, very nice then. I've been pretty large mag content ever since I figured out how to tune USA 30rd mags for the BHP and USA 40rders for the AR-15. 100%, both just take some careful feedlip work. I have 22rd mags for my Globs ;) but they cost about 100 bucks or more by the time I add +5s to good 17 rd mags. Ban must die!

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Wonder why folks insist on making up childish names for pistols they don't like?

I just bought a Sig 210. You may a Slug 210 or Pig 210, if it will make you feel better.

Flyer,
There are guns that are more accurate and reliable than Glock. That would "beat" Glock, wouldn't it?

They're good, but really, it's not like God breathed into clay to create them.

[Ala Dan]

definitely a SIG P226.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[BigG]

Hello, Ala Dan!

I've got the SIG P226, also. With the high (normal?) cap 15 shot mags, they are a wonderful pistol!

[BHPshooter]

Wonder why folks insist on making up childish names for pistols they don't like?

As I said, it was all just an attempt to be funny. I guess it wasn't. I'm sorry if I offended.

An no, I don't dislike Glocks. The only thing I don't like about them is the outrageous price of hi-cap mags.

...The difference with the BHP is that there is a fine line between a really sweet trigger and a fully automatic handgun. 500 some rounds of +p will help you cross that. Really fast cyclic rate. Waiting on parts from C&S.

:eek: :what: :eek: LOL, I bet that got your heartrate going! Glad to hear you're still okay, though. ;)

Wes