Real mall ninja in my area.


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Hoplophile
July 12, 2008, 08:54 PM
I live at an apartment. We have "Security Officers", all of whom are privately employed (not part of a company). Most of them are quite sweet and just walk around and tell people to be quiet, and some of them are really quite amiable and will chat with you.

However, we have a Mall Ninja. Let's call him S. For starters, S is working a 7 dollars an hour night job. This seems like a sad fate for someone who was once a badass tactical security-cleared straight-up operator. So tactical, in fact, that not only, according to him, is assaulting the other security officers a misdemeanor, but assaulting him is a FELONY! :eek:

That's right, apparently, he's like the baddest operator in Iraq and the CIA is protecting him or something.

He also carries a bandoleer of live ammunition.

But no gun.

In addition to this, he drives an old van. On the side of the van, he has printed out, in red lettering, on computer paper:

PROTECTION OFFICER: FIRST RESPONSE UNIT

The worst part is, he is apparently about 50% of the way to convincing the management that he actually knows what he's doing.

Anyway, he's not any real threat, just a bit loopy. If I find some more stories about him, I'll post them here.

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buy guns
July 12, 2008, 08:55 PM
Haha post pics!

Hoplophile
July 12, 2008, 08:56 PM
I'll post pics of his van the next time I see it. Should be next week or so.

Joey_the_Wolf
July 12, 2008, 08:57 PM
Ask him what his plan is for dealing with multiple .308 rounds to the back...
Trauma plate of some sorts, or does he have another method?

DFW1911
July 12, 2008, 09:01 PM
Since he has a bandoleer of ammo he MUST know something the rest of us don't...yep, someone is protecting him.:D

Maybe he was a General in the Salvation Army? I've heard they really take care of their own :rolleyes:

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 12, 2008, 09:02 PM
I've come to a new realization about Mall Ninjas. I now believe that as long as they aren't hurting anyone, or really passing themselves off as something they're not, they're fine in my book.

Everyone has to have a hobby or something that brings them joy or pride. If one can find that through their job, good for them. It's rare to have a job that you really like. Mall Ninjas whether they are doing it as part of their job or not, are just guys having fun. Think of them as Civil War re-enactors in modern times. Instead of grown men playing dressup with 1850s clothing and gear, they use 5.11 and Blackhawk. If it makes them feel cool or whatever, who cares. As long as they don't tell people they have LEO authority or something, let them spend their money on overpriced tactical junk and feel happy about it.

Tons of hobbies are either dorky, expensive, pointless, really far outside the norm, or a combination of the above. Who are we to critique how one spends their money or how they have fun.

KiltedClaymore
July 12, 2008, 09:06 PM
good lord.....imma need picture verification of this mall ninja sighting.

Harvster
July 12, 2008, 09:26 PM
If you don't post pictures you will be shunned....shunned I say.

yesit'sloaded
July 12, 2008, 09:38 PM
So are we talking like a Gecko45 type mall ninja or a Dale Gribble in black tactical gear type mall ninja? The subspecies are very different.

Treo
July 12, 2008, 09:56 PM
I took a job as a security gaurd to pay my way through school. I am AMAZED at the number of ex Navy Seals & retired Delta force, and aspiring Secret Service / U.S. Marshall's and such , that take up second careers as 10.00$ an hour security guards. I really feel honored to to work W/ such seasoned professionals. And I know, as I make my rounds in the middle of the night, if I'm ever attacked by a rabid skunk that they'll be ready to swing into action to cover my "six" .

P.S. When they start talking guns ( only police & military should own GLOCKS) I really get scared.

JWarren
July 12, 2008, 11:28 PM
What can I say?


Oh wait, I know....

I'll leave it as a thumbnail for sake of the thread.






-- John

Eleven Mike
July 12, 2008, 11:36 PM
I'll post pics of his van the next time I see it. Should be next week or so.

Just make sure you block out the license plate and such.


Who are we to critique how one spends their money or how they have fun.

I'm me, that's who. And I'll critique anything I want. Why do I have to be somebody special to critique anything? My hobby is critiquing people on internet forums. It makes me feel extra cool. So judge not. :neener:

wheelgunslinger
July 12, 2008, 11:36 PM
Doesn't sound like Scotty Helvenston, that's for sure.

ceetee
July 12, 2008, 11:46 PM
It could be worse. When I was right out of high school, I took a job as a security guard while I figured some stuff out about what I wanted to do in life. One of the guys I worked with had this odd habit. For some reason, he always felt compelled to share with me the story of his most recent bowel movement. As he regaled me with this story, he would start with how it felt coming on... a preamble, if you will. He would then lead on to how it felt as the movement progressed, the texture, sounds, and smells of it, ending his story by rating his general level of satisfaction with the episode in general. As this was an elderly gentleman -- well, an elderly man, at least -- and I knew from his other stories that he really had no one to chat with away from work, I felt sympathy enough to compel me to listen to these "bathroom tales" without objection.

I hope someone treats me with the same patience if the shoe should ever be on the other foot.

ArchAngelCD
July 12, 2008, 11:47 PM
The Pirate Wench on the right in red is very cute. She has an almost evil smile on her face. Yup, very cute. ;)

walking arsenal
July 12, 2008, 11:55 PM
I knew from his other stories that he really had no one to chat with away from work

There could be a reason why that is. If the most exciting thing in his day is his turd then maybe he ought to get out more.

Anyway

I used to work for a company that had a guy who was certifiable.

I got stuck training with him at night at our local hospital.

After a week of him telling me I had Telekinesis and hearing about his days with the CIA and working with aliens I had had enough.

I volunteered for a more physically dangerous position.

Figured I'd take my chances.

myrockfight
July 13, 2008, 12:28 AM
Anyway, he's not any real threat, just a bit loopy.

I will bet he could extensively challenge that statement were he to be interjected into many scenarios - especially anything involving anything important or of consequence. ;)

Everyone has met someone who is too big for their britches. They often get in over their head. This tends to happen when they are "in charge" of the boat that everyone else is in. While they are over their head in water, everyone else tends to have drowned long ago as a result of their loopiness (or whatever you want to call it :) )

I've seen people hurt very badly at worst and put in great danger at the least when people like that are given too much rope. I tend to steer clear.

HK G3
July 13, 2008, 12:30 AM
Ask him how many duct-taped trauma plates is adequate for apartment security or just walking around the premises after hours. :D

JohnKSa
July 13, 2008, 01:09 AM
If the most exciting thing in his day is his turd then maybe he ought to get out more.Spectacularly poor choice of words... :barf:

I was passing a local gas station the other day and noticed a black & white Crown Vic. An obviously EX-police car. Clustered around this well-worn vehicle were three uniformed men, one of whom was pumping gas into it. My first instinct was to laugh but empathy overcame me and instead I just felt embarrassed for them...

airforceteacher
July 13, 2008, 01:49 AM
The Pirate Wench on the right in red is very cute. She has an almost evil smile on her face. Yup, very cute.

Yar! What about the one on the left? She is hAWt with a capital AW - for AW YEAH!

KiltedClaymore
July 13, 2008, 01:54 AM
have you nothing better to do than ogle pirate wenches? nah, me niether...

Eleven Mike
July 13, 2008, 01:57 AM
Yar! What about the one on the left? She is hAWt with a capital AW

You're just saying that because you like her treasure chest. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :D

esmith
July 13, 2008, 02:43 AM
I'm me, that's who. And I'll critique anything I want. Why do I have to be somebody special to critique anything? My hobby is critiquing people on internet forums. It makes me feel extra cool. So judge not.

Finally, someone who has the balls to come out and say it!

B yond
July 13, 2008, 03:22 AM
picture verification of this mall ninja sighting.
Never happen. You can't catch a ninja on film.

Nate C.
July 13, 2008, 03:30 AM
Better leave that dude alone. He might be legit, and you don't want a bunch of CIA black-bag types on your tail. After all, 'the truth is out there'. If you don't believe me, just ask him.

The Tourist
July 13, 2008, 03:30 AM
Ya' know, rub it in, guys.

Today I took my wife to Borders Book Store in Madison. When I do, I get the reward of crossing the street to go to East Towne Mall and getting an Arby's.

Hey, when you're retired, that's a big deal. We don't have an Arby's in my little town.

I'm chewin' and I'm dunkin' into the sauce, and I'm having a about as much fun as I'm going to have fully clothed without a motorcycle, and my wife starts laughing. I don't mean giggling, I mean open mouthed laughter. The mother at the next table of the food court even looked over at her.

I've broken my neck, so doing a 180 turn is something I try to avoid, but I had to look.

Sure enough, it was my two little buddies, the rolly-polly little him and her duo of the Mall Security, and their antique walkie-talkies and Smokey the Bear hats.

I turn forward, and face my wife. She wipes her chin and smirks, "Too bad the fountain isn't working..."

I have promised her that I will toss any snippy mall ninja into the fountain while I await arrest by the real police. There's "something" about these little butterballs that just enfuriates me.

My wife got to go to Borders, she didn't have to cook, and now she wanted a floor show. This is the woman who claims to love me.

This is also the woman who will yell to the arresting officer, "Cavity search that biker, he's buttin' a gun...!"

I say this because of the unnatural way she enjoyed Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie in "Mr. and Mrs. Smith."

Philmccan
July 13, 2008, 06:54 AM
This is also the woman who will yell to the arresting officer, "Cavity search that biker, he's buttin' a gun...!"

That is so damn funny at 3:00am:D:D

TonyB
July 13, 2008, 07:17 AM
My 1st real job was in a Baskin Robbins ina strip mall....there was 2 security guys,an old guy and a yound guy..both "ex-military".....of course the young guy would've been 9 in the Army...anyway,one night they come in and show me their"gun" complete w/ silencer.....I looked at it and the "silencer" was screwed INTO to barrel....I knoew a little about guns then and asked how the bullet comes out if the silencer was screwed into it?The both mumbeled and left....a few days later they got fired for brandishing their"gun" at some skteboarder......morons.
One reason why I DON'T get a security job is because I'm like 100 lbs over weight and would look pretty helarious in a uniform w/ a big hat.Plus I can't find a silencer for a smith and Wesson 500.:uhoh:

XD Fan
July 13, 2008, 07:27 AM
...anyway,one night they come in and show me their"gun" complete w/ silencer.....I looked at it and the "silencer" was screwed INTO to barrel....I knoew a little about guns then and asked how the bullet comes out if the silencer was screwed into it?The both mumbeled and left....a few days later they got fired for brandishing their"gun" at some skteboarder......morons.
So what's upwith the singular version of gun? Did they only have one between them? That is funny.

Old Guy
July 13, 2008, 07:54 AM
If the Security Officers are not licensed through a State mandated training program, they are just some people walking about, if they are sued, your dues will go into 6 digits!

In Florida, a 40 hour training program is mandated to obtain the D Lic; not armed, the G Lic; armed, is an other 24 hours. Weapons that you carry are either .38 Special Revolvers or 9mm pistols. The jobs go from access control at gated community's, to the Tactical unit at the Kennedy Space Center. Their pistols are Glock 17s, not sure of the current rifles, M16s?

The boxy radios have been sidelined in most cases by Blue tooth, the Police can be as little as 10 minutes away, or much longer, it is nice to have a three minute response time, especially when the responding individual has only your problem to deal with at that time, they also know you and your family content. Don't laugh to hard at the older Gentleman with a Glock 19, with TruGlow sights, and a spare magazine, he might just be quite good with it.

TexasSkyhawk
July 13, 2008, 09:09 AM
If it makes them feel cool or whatever, who cares.

Well, as one who's had to deal with mall ninjas, I care.

We had a drug gang move into a shopping mall in a west Texas city, and so we're working with the local police department's narcotics task force. I have to go and inform Mall Security (most of whom were off-duty police officers) what we were doing. After all, we were a pretty scroungy looking bunch.

And a few days later, damned if I'm not sitting by the fountain actually WATCHING two of the little gangsters starting to make a deal when a mall ninja comes over and starts hassling me. Not an off-duty real cop, a freaking wannabe mall ninja.

And just when it couldn't get any worse, or so I thought, over comes his partner, huffing and puffing and saying in a loud voice, "He's all right. He's all right. He's a DEA agent and I've authorized his mission." Every head in the vicinity turned my way, including the two gangsters'.

I could've shot the little twit. Couldn't do that, but I did get him fired the next day.

Sorry, but I have zero use for mall ninja types. Why not go get a real law enforcement job? If you can't, then own up to it, accept it, and move on.

And again, thank God I'm out of that miserable lunacy for a career.

Jeff

possom813
July 13, 2008, 09:24 AM
That's crazy stuff. I was a security guard a couple of times right out of high school(thinking about getting the certification now). The first place I worked it was always two guards on duty.

I was 18, the youngest guard next to me was my boss and he was 56, there were several other guards there that were on up into later 60's early 70's. Our main purpose was to check in deliveries.

That place was laid back, I mean seriously, who's going to try to steal sand? Anyways, my amazing mall ninja story. I was the night guard, the first night the boss came on duty with me. He proceeded to show which keys opened who's offices and which offices had the most comfortable couches to sleep on.

I'd still have that job if it would of paid more than 6 bucks an hour.


The second security job I had was guarding a construction site. The site was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere. I parked my car inside the gate on the entrance road and logged in trucks and made sure the vehicles entering had the proper stickers on the window.

Where I was at, I carried a .22 rifle and did a little bit of rabbit hunting while I was on duty. Me and the boss finally had a few words over him not wanting me to have a gun on my person. I was in the middle of nowhere and I didn't like the idea of getting eaten by badgers in the middle of the night.

rantingredneck
July 13, 2008, 09:54 AM
During the summer after I graduated from Appalachian State U. I moved back to Fayetteville for 2 months prior to moving to Chapel Hill for my (now ex) wife to start grad school at UNC.

Since I was only going to be back in Fayetteville for a couple of months I chose not to get a job in my chosen field (mental health/vocational rehab). So I ended up delivering pizzas for 2 mos.

One of the managers at the local Domino's was an "Ex-CIA agent" whose wife had been killed 2 years ago because he "knew too much" and now he "wears a disguise". As best as I could tell without getting too close to him, he really was that ugly and no it wasn't a disguise. I have no idea whether his wife had really died 2 years prior, but I seriously doubt it had anything to do with him being in the CIA or knowing too much.

What made all this even more hilarious was that this was in Fayetteville, NC. Home of Ft. Bragg and Army Special Operations. Several of my other co-workers were the real deal who were moonlighting delivering pizzas for extra $.

I came to the conclusion rather quickly that the manager in question was in need of some services from my chosen profession.

MaterDei
July 13, 2008, 10:15 AM
So they killed his wife because HE knew too much? OK. ;)

These stories are hilarious. I need to get out more, I occasionally see these types but have never conversed much with them.

The last mall security guard I spoke to was a really cute girl on a horse in the parking lot of The Woodland's Mall. She directed me to the restaurant where I was meeting my wife for lunch. She was unarmed, didn't even have a bandoleer on her.

rantingredneck
July 13, 2008, 10:23 AM
So they killed his wife because HE knew too much? OK.

It apparently made sense to him :D

armoredman
July 13, 2008, 10:46 AM
I did security years ago, never in a mall. Got accosted in a mall back many years ago, waaaay before AZ had CCW. Buddy of mine and I were open carrying in Park Mall, and four hours after we got there, a young guy with a nightstick came over and demanded we leave. OK, that's alright under AZ law, and we said we would go, when Junior Idiot reached out to take my friends revolver! We quietly convinced him of the error of his ways, and peaceably left the area.
Now,the best security is high dollar hotel - the things you see, especially late night, can be a hoot.

.cheese.
July 13, 2008, 10:49 AM
All of a sudden I want to buy my little Bichon Frise a K-9 Unit shirt and go walking with him.

Harvster
July 13, 2008, 11:11 AM
All of a sudden I want to buy my little Bichon Frise a K-9 Unit shirt and go walking with him.

Be sure to put a little camo paint on the dogs cheeks and forehead. Those big fluffy white areas may que the perp as to your position.

rantingredneck
July 13, 2008, 11:17 AM
Yeah and to complete the look you have to be packing a glock in a blackhawk thigh rig.










..........and so does the dog.

Restorer
July 13, 2008, 11:55 AM
Whenever you see spot a mall ninja (or sub-species like parking ninjas of park ninjas) have some empathy. Walk a mile in their Tactical Combat boots and wonder if, at any point in their fantasies, the words "mine shaft canary" surfaced. They might be a walking testing grounds for some BG (BG ninja?) who thinks the ninjas know what they're doing. Oh, the sad irony. These poor deluded fools are strutting around and a BG intent on mass murder does show up and the ninja is the first target.

Oh. well. Think of it as evolution in action. You pays your dime and you takes your chances.

The Tourist
July 13, 2008, 12:09 PM
That is so damn funny at 3:00am

You should hear the stuff she says I cannot print here on a public forum.

My opinion on mall ninjas is clearly well-known and I believe well thought out.

If you have something worth protecting, hire a professional or an off duty LEO.

If you cannot afford a full staff, install cameras and one professional.

But the last and the dumbest thing to do is hire ninjas. They have no training in law enforcement (and as such they'll get you sued blue), they have no skill, nobody respects them anyway, and the only thing they will do against real crime and danger is to call for more ninjas with the same weaknesses.

Unless this poser has a Writ of Manadamus also duct taped to his cardio plate, he's just another guy at the mall. He has no legal right to do anything. And frankly his safety is in jeopardy, as well.

MarkDido
July 13, 2008, 12:17 PM
So what's upwith the singular version of gun? Did they only have one between them? That is funny.


One carried the gun, the other carried the bullet ;)

DRYHUMOR
July 13, 2008, 12:30 PM
good thread lol

erictank
July 13, 2008, 02:11 PM
Re: the Pirate poster -

Ah, the PhotoGnome (that's what he calls himself, IIRC). Met him at DragonCon in Atlanta last year where he was having QUITE a good time getting attractive, and frequently scantily-clad, women to pose for pics with him. He was usually dressed in something fairly silly and/or suggestive himself. He's got a photo site out there in the wilds of the Interwebs somewhere, I imagine it could be found via Google. Be warned, most *DEFINITELY* NSFW.

Re: tales of the mall-ninjas -

LMAO! Especially B Yond's comment WRT photo verification - "Never happen. You can't catch a ninja on film." PERFECT!

Mark K. C.
July 13, 2008, 03:10 PM
A 20th century Barny Fife. Nope , Barney had a gun. He carried one bullet in his shirt pocket.

ilbob
July 13, 2008, 03:20 PM
I worked security while going to school.

Lots of unique individuals. :)

One guy decided it would be a good idea to take a shower one night in the chairman of the board's (of a fortune 50 company) private bathroom.

Only two real nuts that I recall off the top of my head. One guy used to tell me stories about how when he was in high school ROTC during the race riots he and his fellow ROTC cadets had to "strap on their 45s to protect their women" at school.

Another guy was too young to legally work as an armed guard but religiously carried a nightstick. He related to me that he was certified to kill with his nightstick so did not need a gun. IIRC, he was let go when his fingerprint results came back from the state. :)

ashtxsniper
July 13, 2008, 04:04 PM
I saw a security guard carrying a Bryco 9mm with no spare mag in a uncle mikes holster that was several sized to small. The barrel and slide hung out the bottom of the holster by at least 2". Dork Patrol.

Treo
July 13, 2008, 04:06 PM
As mentioned previously, I work security now to get through school. The job gives me ample time to do homework, and really isn't very demanding. I "guard" (read drive around and look at deer, elk and porcupines ) a city owned property in rural El Paso County. I check doors, windows and vehicles but my main job is to politely greet city employees as they show up for work in the morning.

As far as I can tell there are 4 types of people working for this company they are;

1. Retired military looking to supplement their pension. As far as they're concerned, they're pullin' CQ for 8 hours.

2. College students (cÚst moi). It's a job, it'll pay the bills while I'm in school I show up on time, my uniform is neatly pressed, I perform my duties in an orderly manner. I am a polite as I can be to city employees and I freely acknowlegde that I have absolutely no police authority.

3. Females that have no other job skills ( security pays better than 7-11)

4. The Ninja, these are the guys that scare me, none of them have any college. They all claim to be pursuing careers in Military Intelegence, Various law enforcement agencies ( every thing from CSPD to the Secret Service). a couple of them are wash outs from the army. They appear to have ZERO firearms knowlege ( I had to explain to one of the the difference between 7.62 & 7.62 X 39, he got really lost when we got into .380, 9 X 18 & 9mm Luger)

From what I've seen, these guys know they're in dead end jobs. They know no L. E. agency is going to pick them up. But they'd rather hang on to the dream (fantasy) of bettering themselves than admit they're losers. I find it really hard not to feel sorry for them.

The Tourist
July 13, 2008, 04:26 PM
The concept of freedom is like healthy muscle tissue. It atropies if not used.

A mall ninja has no authority, nill, zip, nada, zero authority to do anything. The fact that people tolerate them at all is "white coat syndrome." They look like a cop, hence people assume they have policing powers. They do not.

We have only ourselves to blame.

If there is a danger in malls--the place where our wives shop and our children play--then get real cops. Don't foist these cardboard cut-outs on us.

Just like any law that restricts freedom, only the law-abiding citizen will comply, the criminals will not. Do you actually believe a gang banger selling dope in a food court is even going to look up when approached by a mall ninja?

And if the felon shoots, do you think that any protection at all will be realized by your wife and children?

I do not comply to a mall ninja. They are all told the same thing. They are told to get real cops if they believe I have committed a crime, and they are told to not limit my movements. They are asked for a Writ, and failing that, then they are ignored.

jonmerritt
July 13, 2008, 04:37 PM
I had a mall ninja run up behind me and grab my arm and try to twist it up between my shoulders. (try). I had just came out of radio shack after making a purchase,(electronics geek). I spent 4 yrs in the military in a combat MOS, and had to use those skills, I am also 6' 4" at 300 lbs. The mall ninja ended up with a broken right arm and a severe concusion, and a trip to the hospital. It was all caught on camera. For some reason he thought I had just robbed somebody in the mall. Someone had been robbed in the mall, the description didn't come near looking like me. Last mistake he made as a mall ninja.

Corporal K
July 13, 2008, 04:40 PM
Those guys are odd ones. They usually couldn't/wouldn't make in the military or in law enforcement or if they were in the mil, they were swabbing decks or slinging slop.

One of my best friends has a friend who is an odd bird too. The guy has told my friend for years that he was an "assassin for the government". I always put up with it until this 3rd party started making "Special Forces" claims. I wasn't in SF, but I have ZERO tolerance for frauds, so I finally told my (woefully uninformed friend) that his buddy was FOS. I don't know if he actually believes it, though.

nj.piney
July 13, 2008, 04:41 PM
never make fun of a mall ninja with a bandolier and no gun , ninjas are trained to insert the bullets manually.

The Tourist
July 13, 2008, 04:51 PM
Last mistake he made as a mall ninja.

I hope you sued and the idiot is paying off your house. These guys shouldn't even be able to operate under law. Just what statute gives them the right to even pretend to be guards?

TonyB
July 13, 2008, 05:01 PM
Make that 1 fake gun between the 2......thank God it wasn't real....they could've put an eye out.:scrutiny:

hoji
July 13, 2008, 05:18 PM
In Texas an armed security officer is required to go through 30 hours of training and pass aboth a written exam and a firearm proficiency.{granted the proficiency exam is not that tough} The class consists of Use of Force, Texas Penal Code{mostly section 9} writing reports , Arrest Authority, and 10 hours of firearm training. I teach these classes part time. Are there some people who I would rather not see armed... of course. I see tons of people I would not trust with a gun at Cabela's.

A well trained security officer on a property is a fantastic deterrent to the criminal element. You are looking for cars to break into, which apartment complex will you go shopping at,hmmm the one with the "mall ninja" walking around with a flashlight doing his/her job ,or the place with no security.

There are halfwits in every profession. Security gets the credit for it because security officers are in the public eye and their halfwittedness is viewed by all. For every dork out there there are 10 who do what they are supposed to do, observe and report, be visible, and be a deterrent to crime.

Police forces have their share of mall ninjas as well. Look at the youtube of the Baltimore cop and the skateboarder.

Acera
July 13, 2008, 05:38 PM
In case you want to see what is referenced by hoji,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc

and another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Mts9gMGKo

Just think, when the investigation is complete, he will be coming to a mall near you :(

ClickClickD'oh
July 13, 2008, 05:54 PM
according to him, is assaulting the other security officers a misdemeanor, but assaulting him is a FELONY!
Depending on where you are, it might just be a felony to assault a security officer.

A mall ninja has no authority, nill, zip, nada, zero authority to do anything. If by "mall ninja" you mean security officer, you are just as wrong as you were last time I told you that you were wrong about this.

Security is like any other industry. Crap pay garners crappy employees. $7.00 an hour outfits are usually full of worthless employees. My officers start at $17.50 an hour. Guess what kind of officers I have?

If a guy like The Tourist tried to toss one of my officers in "the fountain" while waiting for "the real police" he'd end up with some interesting things to think about while sitting in handcuffs waiting for "the real police" to charge him with a felony.

How many of you guys want to go against CNN's "mall ninja" SWAT team or the reaction team at your local nuclear reactor? They're private security companies just like at your mall.

hoji
July 13, 2008, 05:58 PM
Security is like any other industry. Crap pay garners crappy employees. $7.00 an hour outfits are usually full of worthless employees. My officers start at $17.50 an hour. Guess what kind of officers I have?

If a guy like The Tourist tried to toss one of my officers in "the fountain" while waiting for "the real police" he'd end up with some interesting things to think about while sitting in handcuffs waiting for "the real police" to charge him with a felony.

How many of you guys want to go against CNN's "mall ninja" SWAT team or the reaction team at your local nuclear reactor? They're private security companies just like at your mall.


I was thinking the same thing. Michael Dell's guys come to mind:) as well.

Of course people who say things like "I would toss them in a fountain" or I broke his arm when he tried to grab me" really smack of mall ninjaititis themselves:neener:

Aguila Blanca
July 13, 2008, 06:19 PM
never make fun of a mall ninja with a bandolier and no gun , ninjas are trained to insert the bullets manually.
Into what?

Smith
July 13, 2008, 06:24 PM
"Quote:
Originally Posted by nj.piney
never make fun of a mall ninja with a bandolier and no gun , ninjas are trained to insert the bullets manually.
Into what?"

Their target I would presume.

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 13, 2008, 06:38 PM
Blackwater and others are private security companies too. How many of you would try to toss one of them into a fountain(no matter how much you may want to)?

You get what you pay for. Yes the pimply kid or 300lb 40 year old at the mall may be pushovers, but that doesn't mean the whole industry of private security is.

Ever been to Vegas? The casino security is almost all private. Try hassling them sometime.

lysander
July 13, 2008, 06:39 PM
In case you want to see what is referenced by hoji,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc

and another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Mts9gMGKo

Just think, when the investigation is complete, he will be coming to a mall near you

WOW. I am flashing back to my teen years when one of my biggest problems was having the audacity to occasionally question authority.

MedWheeler
July 13, 2008, 06:47 PM
I'm with "ClickClickD'oh!" on this one. Private security is a business with a service to sell, just like any other service industry. Of course, there are many levels of it, ranging from the barely-above-minimum-wage earners to what are sometimes known around here as "Custom Protection Officers". These are the ones that are required to have law enforcement or military backgrounds, and they earn much more. Beyond those, there are other private companies that rival the best Federal agencies in tactics, training, and equipment (I'm surprised no one mentioned Blackwater USA yet.) The nuclear power plant where I live has an extended waiting list of well-qualified candidates waiting to come on as plant safety officers. This is because of the excellent pay and benefits offered. The job requires the use of tactical rifles and other equpiment (especially after 9-11), as well as a working knowledge of firefighting and emergency medical aid. Many of them make more than the local cops do.
Security officers at places like malls are not law enforcement, nor are they supposed to be. They are "rule" enforcement, charged with the responsibility of maintaining a "pleasant" and safe-feeling atmosphere so that our wives and daughters can spend time and money there without fear of offense. When crime does occur, they are to verify the occurrence of such, and notify law enforcement. They can ask suspects for compliance, but are not supposed to put themselves or others in harm's way seeking it.
True, some are buffoons. When I was in LE, I questioned one working at a construction site near where a woman had reported a voyeur to see if he'd seen anything in the area. During questioning, my eyes put together a remarkable similarity between his appearance and the description given by the woman, right down to the criss-cross pattern of dirt on the tip of his nose (dirt from her window screen.) But the diversity in the industry is so wide it's impossible to generalize its members in any way. I showed respect to those encountered when I was in LE, and found most of them, in my area at least, to be professionally disposed and presented.

TexasSkyhawk
July 13, 2008, 07:11 PM
How many of you guys want to go against CNN's "mall ninja" SWAT team or the reaction team at your local nuclear reactor? They're private security companies just like at your mall.

Gimme a break.

Most of those guys are ex-military. I know a number of guys from our old team that work private security jobs--but you damn sure won't find them working in shopping malls or as school crossing guards or guarding car lots or empty buildings at night.

If a guy like The Tourist tried to toss one of my officers in "the fountain" while waiting for "the real police" he'd end up with some interesting things to think about while sitting in handcuffs waiting for "the real police" to charge him with a felony.

Yeah, and if one your "officers" pulled the kind of stunt on me that those two mall ninjas did back then, had we not been after the gangsters, YOUR "officers" would've been in deep juju and YOU would've lost your contract.

Cuts both ways.

Sorry, but I've see way more mall ninjas in lower-tier security jobs than I have professionals. It's hard to tell the professionals, though. You never see them. They blend in, go about their jobs and concentrate on the criminals.

As far as Officer Salvatore Rivieri and his insane rant with the skateboarders. . . . that guy would've spent a night in our jail (federal holding center) until his shift supervisor came to bail him out.

ZERO excuse for his behavior. ZERO.

Jeff

The Tourist
July 13, 2008, 07:17 PM
If a guy like The Tourist tried to toss one of my officers in "the fountain" while waiting for "the real police" he'd end up with some interesting things to think about while sitting in handcuffs waiting for "the real police" to charge him with a felony.

If you're a mall ninja, you'd better read my post again. My actions are solely conditional.

If Barney Fife gives me the story of his life and tries to dazzle me with his years in combat (in his mind), he will be told to go away unless authorized by a court. That's covered by the Writ of Mandamus he doesn't have.

Now that we have established he's a mouthy pseudo clown in a funny hat, he is warned not to touch me.

I throw that advice as a bone, I really don't have to say anything. You cannot assault anyone no matter what you're wearing.

The felonious assault occurs when he restricts my movements, lies to me about his policing powers and grabs my arm.

At this point, his azz is mine, and I didn't like him to begin with.

Yes, there will be retribution, and then to add insult to injury, I'm going to sue.

TexasSkyhawk
July 13, 2008, 07:49 PM
Yes, there will be retribution, and then to add insult to injury, I'm going to sue.

And you will win.

My next-door neighbor just got a nice settlement courtesy of TSA because one of the airport ninjas grabbed him on the shoulder and tried to pull some sort of a "restraining maneuver" at DFW airport.

Jeff

Treo
July 13, 2008, 08:50 PM
Speaking of mall ninjas & wannabe war heros........

I really don't see that much difference between the wannabes that I work W/ and some of the internet war heros that post here ( you know the ones who always seem to work a refference to their high speed , low drag operator days into every post).

The guys that I work with tell their stories because they don't have any other way to feel important. In fantasyland they're not overweight losers, who couldn't make it through basic training, they're ex Navy Seals , and retired DEA Agents (sound like any body we know?) or bad-ass bikers.

Substitute the food court for THR and..... ( well I 'll just let you follow that line of thought for your self)

ClickClickD'oh
July 14, 2008, 01:22 AM
Gimme a break.

Most of those guys are ex-military. I know a number of guys from our old team that work private security jobs--but you damn sure won't find them working in shopping malls or as school crossing guards or guarding car lots or empty buildings at night.I bet I could find a lot of high level security officers working exactly those jobs. You never know where you will find Level IV licensed officers.

Two months ago I had several of my officers wearing Mall Security uniforms and working alongside (sort of) the normal staff at a mall here in north Texas. It was part of their job, so they did it. Of course, they were focused on other concerns than kids getting stuck in the escalators.

Yeah, and if one your "officers" pulled the kind of stunt on me that those two mall ninjas did back then, had we not been after the gangsters, YOUR "officers" would've been in deep juju and YOU would've lost your contract.Well that's pretty obvious. All this does is reaffirm that there are good security officers and bad security officers... just like any other profession.

The felonious assault occurs when he restricts my movements, lies to me about his policing powers and grabs my arm.Since you don't care to take my word for it, you really may want to ask a lawyer about this before you get into some serious trouble.

Depending on where you are, Security Officers might just have the authority to arrest you.

Also depending on where you are your claim that, "The felonious assault occurs when he restricts my movements, lies to me about his policing powers and grabs my arm" can be false. Here it would be a Class C misd assault plus a Class A misd unlawful restraint, not a felony.. but that's only if the arrest was not lawful, which it may be.. since again, in some places security officers do in fact have the ability to arrest people. In the case of the State of Texas a security officer may arrest for the comission of a Class A misd or any level of felony. Criminal tresspass in some conditions does reach the level of a Class A misd... so yes, it's conceivable that under certain conditions you refusing the requests of a secuirty officer, and nothing else, may get you arrested, by a security officer, (legally) in Texas.

As I said, check the laws or talk to some lawyers, because your assertions are pretty far from nation wide, and could lead to trouble if people here believed you.

The Tourist
July 14, 2008, 01:26 AM
or bad-ass bikers.

Now that's just mean, you've hurt my feelings and you know how easily I bruise.

*sob* Excuse me, I need a moment...

bobbarker
July 14, 2008, 01:27 AM
Ya know, I've actually been looking for a security job... but I would sit on the side of the road before I'd be any type of "Security" that doesn't allow me to carry a weapon. Not to insult anyone here who does that, but, I just couldn't call myself security without a weapon.

TCB in TN
July 14, 2008, 01:31 AM
So they killed his wife because HE knew too much? OK.

Anyone on here have a wife that doesn't know too much? Or at the very least a lot more than you do? :evil:

ColinthePilot
July 14, 2008, 02:53 AM
I deal with mall ninjas the same way I deal with any other human. If I encounter one, I treat them respectfully. Thats just basic adult behavior. If they start throwing BS my way, I remain respectful, because A) They can't get me on anything if I remain calm and respectful; B) it really pisses them off when they try to get a rise out of you and you give them nothing but courtesy. Then I ask for their name, their supervisor's contact info, and then remove myself from the situation/mall/parking lot etc. That type of behavior has gotten me out of arrestable offenses, speeding tickets, and black lists at the local shopping center. Not that I have these encounters a lot, but respect always pays off.

The Tourist
July 14, 2008, 03:15 AM
If I encounter one, I treat them respectfully.

Ultimately, that's what this thread is about. It is also the reason that Don Knotts portrayal of "Barney Fife" was so funny. You don't have to look too hard to find these guys.

The problem with many of them is that they believe swagger is power. Be polite to them, and they bend it in their little fantasy world as "fear of the badge." I think they truly believe they are the Starsky and Hutch on the mean streets of the food court.

And in one of the strangest cases of irony, there is probably more retail theft and passing of drugs right under their noses than they would imagine.

beretta92d
July 14, 2008, 03:20 AM
the company i worked for paid $9.00/HR ($10 at the most for unarmed sites).we had a few wanna-bes but not to bad.one guy would tell me the best time to sleep so as to avoid being caught by a road supervisor(i was to paranoid to fall asleep,couldn't chance lossing the job),another guy would brag about the walmart flashlight he bought(with holster) and the spiffy new security badge he bought w/leather holder(to keep on him when off-duty)
they did pay $15-$18/Hr for armed guard but that was only during christmas at Toys-R-Us and if FEMA was in town(like when we had some major flooding afew yrs back)though it'd cost you $120.for lic that they don't reimburse..

scary thing is,this same company(paying $9.00/HR) had some of these people guarding propane/natural gas-storage/processing plants.they varied from single tanks holding about 60,000 gallons of N.G. but most of them store well over 100,000+ gallons.(i'm sure that'd make a big hole..)

only reason client hired us was because they had some kids jump the fence and try to steal some tools,cops were called and seeing that they were supposedly prevented from going in (because of their radios).they needed someone cheap to keep unauthorized people out...

thankfully i left that company for a higher paying non-security job..

*edit...
still waiting for pic of this guys van..(like the OP mentioned)
PROTECTION OFFICER: FIRST RESPONSE UNIT

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 03:53 AM
Ya know... I've been thinking about getting a part-time job as security someplace. I've sorta toyed with the idea for awhile. Something to keep me busy, keep me from spending money I don't have, and best of all, a nice little paycheck that I can blow if I want.

Something productive to do after the day job and on the weekends that keeps me out of trouble, eh?

Then threads like this pop up.

I'd feel like the biggest idiot in the world sitting in a booth or cruising around the mall at midnight.

Pfff... I'd probably even feel like an idiot working for Blackwater. :(

I'm off to apply for the drive-thru job at Jack in the Box. You all knock yourselves out.


-T.

Old Guy
July 14, 2008, 04:02 AM
We here in Florida as armed Security Officers, have a very simple mandate, we can use deadly force if we or anyone in our care and protection are threatened/attacked in such a way that any reasonable person would believe death or severe injury would occur.

Just about the same rules that govern CCW individuals in our beautiful (and hot just now!) State.

My job is to protect the lives of (me first!) the sales staff, who have been threatened in the past.

My nice new Jeep Cherokee sits outside, complete with a very professional decal kit, so it is not hard to guess we are working.

If you produce a weapon, you will be shot. I have been shooting since I came out of my UK Service in 1956 (I know old!) third most accurate in our last IDPA match, out of 64, so I can hit things as well.

A good Friend of mine runs a large Security Company in Illinois, his young people carry whatever pistol they can qualify with (with some restrictions) attacking a Security Officer in Chicago is a felony, same as Police.

At this time they are doing street patrol, in the City, not traffic.
If I was working in a Mall, can not see that happening tho, and had to take a 40 yard shot, I could do it, Security is a presence that you as an individual project, and having a great day doing just that keeps you happy, very similar to the Marine Motto!

Next time you see an Old Gentleman with a Glock 19, with TruGlow sights, and a spare Glock 17 magazine on the other side, be nice, he just might know how to use it.

Treo
July 14, 2008, 04:16 AM
reads like this pop up.

I'd feel like the biggest idiot in the world sitting in a booth or cruising around the mall at midnight.

That's why you get a third shift job. I spend my nights driving around rural El Paso County Colorado looking at wildlife, and stars. I actually deal W/ people 1 hour a day ( the most important hour of my day) I'm nice to them . they're nice to me then I leave and go to school. The biggest issue we've ever had was when our clients head of security tried to sneak on to one of our sites (literally dressed like a ninja) to "test" our response. Apparently the guy he did it to went after him W/ a 2 X 4 .

denfoote
July 14, 2008, 04:41 AM
It could be worse!!
He could be a mall zombie!!! :evil:

ashtxsniper
July 14, 2008, 11:02 AM
Also depending on where you are your claim that, "The felonious assault occurs when he restricts my movements, lies to me about his policing powers and grabs my arm" can be false. Here it would be a Class C misdemeanor assault plus a Class A misdemeanor unlawful restraint, not a felony.. but that's only if the arrest was not lawful, which it may be.. since again, in some places security officers do in fact have the ability to arrest people. In the case of the State of Texas a security officer may arrest for the commission of a Class A misd or any level of felony. Criminal tresspass in some conditions does reach the level of a Class A misd... so yes, it's conceivable that under certain conditions you refusing the requests of a secuirty officer, and nothing else, may get you arrested, by a security officer, (legally) in Texas.
Yes a Security Guard can arrest for these things but so can your everyday Texas citizens. Felonies, any breach of the peace, to prevent harm to the victim, or to prevent a person from harming themselves. OBTW Assault in this state is a class A misdemeanor not a class C. A class C would be for disorderly conduct which applies to mutual combat in a public place with no injuries to either party. The poster you are arguing with was attacked not engaged in mutual combat. This makes is a class A misdemeanor Assault unless there is serious bodily injury then it is a 3rd degree felony aggravated assault. As far as most of the security (85%) around here they are either wannabe cops or police academy drop outs. Thats why God made Police so that security guards can have heroes.

XDKingslayer
July 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
I hope someone treats me with the same patience if the shoe should ever be on the other foot.

Odd. The first thing I though was "If I get to the point where all I have to do is talk about my poop I hope someone puts has the patience to put a bullet in my head not listen to me.".

The Tourist
July 14, 2008, 11:38 AM
If you produce a weapon, you will be shot.

Have you attended the same firearms classes that your local LEOs attend? Did you graduate? Have you had "shoot--don't shoot" training? Any classes in negotiating with offenders?

There's a very good reason I ask.

Two years ago while out grocery shopping, my wife and I ran into one of her co-workers. To make extra cash, this co-worker had a part-time job as a mall ninja. During the conversation, she pointed to the clip-knife in my pocket and smugly committed, "We (meaning her trained staff of vigilantes) do not permit concealed weapons."

I simply asked her how a 'weapon' can be considered concealed if it's seen and there is no aggressive behavior.

Now here's my slant. If this woman worked for you and I stopped for a sandwich in her food court, she would draw down on me.

The reason? She saw a 'weapon.'

I'll re-state my overall position. These guys are not cops. They have minimal training at best. Many have the 'Barney Fife' syndrome. They are not sworn officers.

You use the phrase, "produce a weapon."

Perhaps cut a sandwich for my wife? If I'm sitting calmly enjoying the day and a Fife goes for his weapon, I'm going to try and kill him as fast as I can. No remorse. You shouldn't even have a gun. I'm not even sure the Fifes have training with pepper-spray.

RoadkingLarry
July 14, 2008, 11:38 AM
I did the unarmed security a few time while i was on shore duty for spending money, and for a while it was at a mall.. I always figured my number one job as unarmed security was to make sure the doors are locked or unlocked as appropriate and to be the first guy to call 911. Ain't gonna get much more for minimum wage.

BattleChimp Potemkin
July 14, 2008, 12:14 PM
I hated and loved being a security guard for various reasons.

Hated:
Always one guy in the group that was a ninja type. That guy always "had more seniority" than others because of "his background", even though it was his first week. Those guys either quit/get fired immediantly or they actually stay on for quite a few years. Either case, its a pain in many circumstances (especially at night duty in a warehouse, you have to listen to their stories or tell em to shut it because you are tired of it). What was really bad is when management (never there when you needed them for a bad situation) always overreacts to anything. A bag left in the breakroom would always bring local police because of that moron. Hated filling out reports due to the paranoia of some overreactionary fat slob.

Loved it:
Great coffee! We had free reign of the break room at nights, so I always brought in 8'o'Clock coffee from the store and gave who ever was with me that night a great treat. Easy job, decent pay for a fresh college grad (no where close to my current pay with a professional desk job now). Got to carry! That was really fun, especially when the company set up a system of pay withdrawal until the weapon was paid for. Got to keep my Ruger 94 and Smith 13. Easy job, carried a flashlight, occasionally wrote something in a book and walked. I am a skinny guy, but I even lost 5 lbs in my first 2 weeks from the walking. Felt great.

I admit that there are alot of folks in the security rings that are a little overboard. However, can I blame them? Not really. I look at gun mag ads and stuff and see nothing but tacticool stuff and stories of nuclear security guards that can crap lasers. Not a suprise that is what the latest generation of security guards want to be, coupled with an already low self esteem (many could not make it into the police or military, found security jobs). The most "tactical thing" that I even had on my uniform was a basketweave Bianchi holster for my Smith. Everyone else wanted the latest in Kydex, Blackhawk or what not and WOULDNT SHUT UP about it either.

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 12:26 PM
...nuclear security guards that can crap lasers...

Now that's just damn funny.


-T.

Old Guy
July 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
Tourist

Have you attended the same firearms classes that your local LEOs attend? Did you graduate? Have you had "shoot--don't shoot" training? Any classes in negotiating with offenders?

These exchanges always seem to deteriorate in to slung nastiest no matter how we try to keep it civil, as a Firearms Instructor full time, for 23 years, I have taught many of the type of classes you speak about, and monitored many at Annual Training Conferences, of IALEFI, but now after retiring my Son talked me into helping him with the high risk contracts (gullible me) if you enter a Diamond Store, which is protected by a Man Trap, and a staff member takes no heed of the metal detector beep! Person could now be on the floor with pistol in hand, this individual will not be negotiated with.

Even criminals who have obtained money, on leaving have turned and shot the person who gave them the cash, as a Security Officer you can not put your self into a persons head, we have no mandate to arrest, we do not even carry handcuffs, we protect.

You must have seen the Newspaper story of the young Security Officer here in South Florida, who shot the masked individual with a weapon (read Pistol) in his hand approaching the door of the Pay Less Shoe Store, through the glass! Four shots, 4 hits.
He had not even entered the premises he was paid to protect! The Israelis call it a preemptive strike.

It was thought to have been a man woman type of domestic? Never was reported in any kind of a conclusive way.
Charges against Store Security were not even contemplated, produce weapon (gun) get shot. I get paid quite well, but the smiles a waves from the departing staff as they drive away, in themselves are good for my heart.

The average Citizen in my wonderful adopted Country are not violent, have no concept of dealing with danger of any kind, when asked when they last fought, with or without weapons, say "Never" or grade School, so in some cases protection of some nature has to be employed, the Police have no mandate to protect you, unless you pay them as Off Duty people, the type of work our protection Division does is not Police Work, the Police are not trained for it, and are not good at it. Stand me in the middle of an busy intersection to direct traffic! look out.

Tourist, if you ever get to Micky's Town, email me prior, you will get a free coffee (if you drink it) at least.

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 12:52 PM
The average Citizen in my wonderful adopted Country are not violent, have no concept of dealing with danger of any kind, when asked when they last fought, with or without weapons, say "Never" or grade School, so in some cases protection of some nature has to be employed, the Police have no mandate to protect you, unless you pay them as Off Duty people, the type of work our protection Division does is not Police Work, the Police are not trained for it, and are not good at it. Stand me in the middle of an busy intersection to direct traffic! look out.

Maybe this is just craaaaaazy me not getting it... but that paragraph reeks of mall ninja-ism.

Old Guy, I think you need to participate in this thread...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=377739


-T.

The Tourist
July 14, 2008, 12:58 PM
I have taught many of the type of classes you speak

I have taught many people to sharpen, that doesn't make me a samurai.

Are you a sworn officer or not? I've heard this "just as good as" postulate all of my life.

You're a cop, or you're not. You're a Green Beret, or you're not. You own a Harley, or you don't.

Tell us, were you ever enrolled in a police academy? How did you do? I have a sneaking suspicion I know.

LiquidTension
July 14, 2008, 01:27 PM
I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.

Can't say that I've ever had a run-in with an overzealous security type. I used to drive Sizemore guards back and forth to their post on campus. They were all pretty nice, but they would have been worthless in any sort of emergency situation. For the most part, they were just there to make sure the FD got called if the building caught on fire and to turn off malfunctioning alarms so the PD didn't have to drive out to do it.

Gladius
July 14, 2008, 01:50 PM
The word we're looking for here is "grounded". As in "grounded in reality".

A long time ago, I went to work for a Security Company (ie Rent-a-gaurd shop), that had armed and unarmed "officers" (cute little note, this was before my state had mandatory certifications. If you could breathe, and scratch your initials, and had "no felony criminal background*", you could become a gaurd. With a shiny badge and everything. And if you had a gun, you could theoretically become an armed gaurd (of course, the smarter companies would require some training, or proof thereof...).

Needless to say, the variety of backgrounds and experience at this company were... ummm... interesting, to say the least.... some of the best Mall Ninja stories I have come from this company, I gotta tell you sometime...

*We did have at least one ex-con (some kind of felony, I don't even want to remember which one) who carried, both on and off duty. He didn't have a CWP. That didn't last long (it shouldn't have happened at all... ah, the good old days, right?)....

Thankfully, I left that company and actually went to work at a local mall. At the time, this Mall hired only former, current (off duty) and reserve law enforcement officers. The level of professionalism tended to be rather higher, and the "mall ninja" pretention was minimal, despite the fact this was a Mall Security unit. We had good relations with the various law enforcement agencies in the area, and eventually the local PD opened a small substation in our office to improve cooperation between agencies. Well, long story short, management changed, they kicked the PD out of the office, and the higher-paid police-trained folks were all laid off.... and now? Mall Ninjas.

In my experience, the following rules are true:
1. You get what you pay for. You pay crappy wages, you get mall ninjas.
2. When you're talking liability, it makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever to scrimp on training -- especially when it comes to the statutes concerning arrest powers....
3. I think it's fine to be a Mall Ninja -- as long as it is made perfectly clear that YOU (Mr. Mall Ninja) HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO POWERS AT ALL WHATSOEVER. You cannot make arrests, you cannot carry exotic weapons, you cannot detain people, you cannot deploy tactically from your security vehicle, you cannot fly, you cannot disappear, etc etc.... AND you cannot talk as though you have these powers. Of course, this strips "mall ninja-ing" of it's "mall ninja-ness". Oh well. Get a new hobby.
4. I'm about as Tactical as a lump of clay. And that's the way I like it.

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 02:51 PM
You cannot make arrests, ... you cannot detain people...

That's right.

Here's a story that touches on that...

I got bounced once from a club. A couple friends I was with were being nutty. Not violent or belligerent, but certainly rowdy. One buddy of mine apparently wanted to talk to everyone within 30 feet. Pfff.

So they bounced us all. Ho hum. No big I guess.

So I head for the door as I was asked to with most of the troop behind me a few paces. As I'm walking, a big guy with a "Staff" shirt on grabs my arm. I immediately yanked my arm away from him not knowing what the hell. Before I knew it I was in the parking lot on the pavement getting pounded by 4 big men in "Staff" shirts. Of course, I'm now fighting back, but it's futile.

As my buddies exit the club behind me they see me getting pounded into dust and jump into the fray to rescue me. They start pulling these guys off me and are taking some licks of their own. But (admirably I must say) they remained defensive and did not "get big", as it were.

Well, I guess security at this place came in two flavors. They had the guys with "Staff" shirts, then they had guys wearing white uniforms carrying radios and tin badges that said "Security".

So a security guy jumps in and starts pepper spraying everyone in sight. My wife was just walking out the club door and saw what was going on. She says, "What the he.." and BAM! Sprayed. Some other random guy ON HIS WAY IN got sprayed. Ugh.

Anywho, I'm just managing to stumble to my feet and he sprays me but hit me in only one eye. I just stopped. He looks at me and I say, "I eat wings hotter than that!". (Understand that I'm beaten blue and bleeding and I'm a little pissed about it.) Before he can act on my comment I'm hit from the side by a "Staff" guy and I go back down. The security guy jumps on my back (he's about 5' 8" and 270lbs) and gets me rolled over and actually cuffs me.

After another few minutes everything is calmed down. I look around with my one good eye and see three of my friends, my wife, and some guy I didn't know all cuffed up. Security guy has his knee in my back.

Now I'm still pissed, but I've also numbed up so I don't really hurt anymore. So against most sane advice, I say, "Hey... you know, I'm going home tonight and you'll still be making $7 an hour." He didn't like that at all. He leans in and puts more of his weight into my back. Ouch.

So the real cops finally show up and separate everyone. Still in cuffs, the majority on my party is standing near a cop car getting questioned. We say that we were being rowdy so they asked us to leave, and as we did they escalated it. Simple and to the point.

About 20 feet away a police supervisor (or some higher rank of cop) is chewing the manager of the club into tiny bits. I mean this was R. Lee Ermey type stuff. Just brutal. Apparently this place was known to LE as having over-zealous "security" and LE was getting sick of it.

Then... the best part. The cops on scene apparently thought we had been cuffed by cops. When one asked around he discovered none of them did it. So he asked us who did. Fat security guard #1 was our reply. The cuffs came off us and went on him. Flipping priceless!

Apparently, as per what we were told, if we pressed charges he could go up for kidnapping or some such ridiculously huge crime. Geez! I was still not exactly 100%, but I did hear something about illegal detainment and involuntary restraint, or something like that.

So we talk with the cops and each other awhile more while this guy sweats it out (with all his co-workers standing off to the side watching), and finally decide it wasn't really worth it to press charges. So they let him go and off we went to breakfast.

Fun stuff, until...

The next week my wife was reading in the paper about an almost identical skirmish at the same club. But this time the guy they beat on died from it on the scene.

I tried to find the victims family to offer testimony in case it would help, but was never able to find anything on the victim.


-T.

wagoneer1019
July 14, 2008, 03:07 PM
can somone email me the text of the origonal mall ninja stories? I have looked on line and was having trouble finding them , I want to send it to my dad who owned a security comp. in the '80s sent to jon@arizonaautoparts.com

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 03:10 PM
can somone email me the text of the origonal mall ninja stories?

For everyone to enjoy...

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

From the man himself...

http://coltcco.com/mnarchive/


-T.

TexasSkyhawk
July 14, 2008, 04:15 PM
my Son talked me into helping him with the high risk contracts (gullible me) if you enter a Diamond Store, which is protected by a Man Trap, and a staff member takes no heed of the metal detector beep! Person could now be on the floor with pistol in hand, this individual will not be negotiated with.

First off, your son doesn't have a nickname that often gets confused with "Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more" does he?

Secondly, spare me.

"Man Trap" "person on floor with pistol in hand" blah blah blah.

This is EXACTLY the kind of talk and rhetoric that defines "mall ninja-ness" perfectly.

Whatcha gonna do if one of my old scroungy-ass undercover partners come through your "high risk" metal detectors and sets it off? Or one of the boys from MacDill or Eglin or Homestead up to see the rodent with big ears and decides maybe a ring is due for their lady?

You try throwing THEM down on the floor and waving your little pistol at them, you'll be walking awful funny and awkward-like until someone takes you to a gunsmith-turned-proctologist . . .

There are good security professionals and then there are ninjas. I have nothing but respect for the professionals and nothing but utter contempt for the ninjas.

And both sides earn the opinions they get.

Jeff

hoji
July 14, 2008, 04:22 PM
This is EXACTLY the kind of talk and rhetoric that defines "mall ninja-ness" perfectly.

Whatcha gonna do if one of my old scroungy-ass undercover partners come through your "high risk" metal detectors and sets it off? Or one of the boys from MacDill or Eglin or Homestead up to see the rodent with big ears and decides maybe a ring is due for their lady?

You try throwing THEM down on the floor and waving your little pistol at them, you'll be walking awful funny and awkward-like until someone takes you to a gunsmith-turned-proctologist . . .


:rolleyes: yep, couldn't agree more:rolleyes:

KiltedClaymore
July 14, 2008, 04:45 PM
sorry to backtrack, but HO-LY CRAP! i just watched that video about the security dude and the skateboarder...that guy should be in federal prison.

SCKimberFan
July 14, 2008, 05:03 PM
We're still waiting for the photos of the van!

hoji
July 14, 2008, 05:05 PM
sorry to backtrack, but HO-LY CRAP! i just watched that video about the security dude and the skateboarder...that guy should be in federal prison.

That was a sworn Baltimore Police Officer, NOT a security Guard.

KiltedClaymore
July 14, 2008, 05:10 PM
still over reacted. still should go to jail.

divemedic
July 14, 2008, 06:11 PM
You never know where you will find Level IV licensed officers.

Hahahaha!!! I looked it up. (http://www.statewidetrainingacademy.com/FAQ.html) In TX, to be a Level IV officer requires 2 online courses to get Level I and II, and Levels III and IV require a total of 45 hours of training.

Not exactly Navy SEAL level skill work there.

I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.

Wow.

Thernlund
July 14, 2008, 06:15 PM
I work security at a hotel every Sunday night. I'm sure I look like a mall ninja, what with the 5.11s and the bullet resistant vest on. 'Course, my vest says "Police" on it, maybe that's why people don't give me too much trouble.Wow.

He's a cop working an off-duty job.

:confused:


-T.

The Tourist
July 14, 2008, 06:21 PM
I have noticed that when you try to pin these guys on specifics, they disappear.

A guy who did something can easily prove his whereabouts or credentials. And "war stories" don't cut it. I mean things like what company do you represent, are you a sworn officer, anybody we can call for verification, etc...

I've felt that smug sting, myself. Hey, it happens, the 'net is full of liars. But that's the point.

Send me a knife to sharpen or call Capital City Harley. You might not like me, but you're being told the truth.

And I would hold to that standard here. I don't like mall ninjas. I have never met one who isn't a Fife. But let's suppose there is one out there.

All he has to do is say, "I'm retired military/LEO, here are my credentials, call my boss." The argument is over instantly.

Personally if this guy who shoots at the sign of a "weapon" does have a superior, and that superior reads/lurks at THR, we ought to ask him to fire his subordinate. He truly is a trigger happy Fife.

justin 561
July 14, 2008, 06:36 PM
He also carries a bandoleer of live ammunition.

But no gun.

You never know, a AK-47 could fall out of the sky at anytime! :rolleyes::scrutiny:

divemedic
July 14, 2008, 06:58 PM
He's a cop working an off-duty job.

Apologies. Don't know him. I see so many Security guards trying to pass themselves off as real cops...

Two of them:

I was at the gun show in Orlando, and I saw a guy wearing a blue Polo shirt with "Department of Homeland Security" on it, and he was wearing a gun belt with a handgun, cuffs, a Taser, spare mags, and an Asp on it. He had a badge and an ID on a chain around his neck. He was 5'6" and about 300 pounds. He waddled, rather than walking. I thought this odd, until I got a look at the badge. It said "Security Officer" and the ID said "Protection Officer." I knew then I was dealing with a "Mall Ninja"

The second was a call I ran to a reported auto accident. We were told that there were no injuries- confirmed by LEO on scene, and we were going for hazard control. We get there- no cops. Just a guy with a badge around his neck and a hat that read "Security." The best part? This neighborhood has no security guards. He was trying to direct traffic, and tell us what to do. He even stepped in front of a car and asked them why they were in this particular neighborhood.

Losers. "Welcome to the graduating class of Tuesday. You have passed both days of rigorous training. Here is your equipment: a flashlight, and in case of real trouble, a pouch of quarters to call the REAL cops."

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 14, 2008, 07:30 PM
I was at the gun show in Orlando, and I saw a guy wearing a blue Polo shirt with "Department of Homeland Security" on it, and he was wearing a gun belt with a handgun, cuffs, a Taser, spare mags, and an Asp on it. He had a badge and an ID on a chain around his neck. He was 5'6" and about 300 pounds. He waddled, rather than walking. I thought this odd, until I got a look at the badge. It said "Security Officer" and the ID said "Protection Officer." I knew then I was dealing with a "Mall Ninja"

It's a shame many of them don't realize that getting in shape is not only good for them, but it would make the act a lot more believable.

Of course if they were in shape, they might have a shot at the real thing. Hence they are where they are.

hoji
July 14, 2008, 07:46 PM
It is as pointless for me or anyone else to try and explain to some of you that not all private security guards are 400 lb wannabe mall ninjas. If you spent more time in the craphole section 8 housing complexes, power plants, major technology manufacturing centers, casinos, and other infrastructure sites, as well as federal buildings, you would see the ones who are not halfwits, as opposed to going on your mall walking and seeing the lowest common denominator.

But hey, you all know everything. I mean with the breaking of arms and tossing in fountain fantasies, who is the mall ninja?

divemedic
July 14, 2008, 07:59 PM
Let me say that I am sure that there are some professional, intelligent security guys out there. The problem is that the cop wanna be tacti-cool morons are soo o common and outspoken as the professionals quietly go about their jobs that we only notice the morons.

hoji
July 14, 2008, 08:11 PM
Let me say that I am sure that there are some professional, intelligent security guys out there. The problem is that the cop wanna be tacti-cool morons are soo o common and outspoken as the professionals quietly go about their jobs that we only notice the morons.

Just like the only cops you see on youtube are JBTs with no regard for the Constitution.

TexasSkyhawk
July 14, 2008, 09:06 PM
If you spent more time in the craphole section 8 housing complexes, power plants, major technology manufacturing centers, casinos, and other infrastructure sites, as well as federal buildings, you would see the ones who are not halfwits, as opposed to going on your mall walking and seeing the lowest common denominator.

I spent twelve years in craphole neighborhoods and housing projects and so on working as an undercover federal narcotics agent.

What's your experience with these places?

Didn't run into too many mall ninjas there--didn't run into too many uniformed credentialed law enforcement types there either. If there were real, effective security there, then there wouldn't have been much of a need for my and my folks to be there, now would there?

So that dog don't hunt.

Casinos? Vast majority of their security--especially senior security--are retired FBI and IRS CID agents, with surprisingly, a large number of retired military NIS/OSI/CID types as well.

Again, trained, proven, educated professionals. I doubt anyone here thinks of them as "mall ninjas."

Federal buildings? Generally the security is handled by GSA. Around the magnotometer and courts and USA's office, that security is provided by CSOs (Court Security Officers) who are deputized United States Marshals. I've yet to mee the CSO who wasn't a retired cop or gov't investigator of some sort. I know two are who retired CIA officers from the Directorate of Operations (a mall ninja's absolute wet dream job).

Major power plants? If they have a contract with DOE, or if they're nuclear (in which case they're regulated by DOE), then most of their security is ex-military.

Anyone remember the old Pantex plant in Amarillo, Texas? They built/disassembled nuclear warheads among other things. Their security team was made up almost entirely of former SEALs, PJs, Rangers/Special Forces, and recon Marines. I knew a lot of those guys as it was a very plumb job to go after when you decided to discharge from the service.

Mall ninjas are just that--mall ninjas. They are not professionals, they are not respected, they are of inconsequential value. They satisfy an insurance requirement and that's about it.

Jeff

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 14, 2008, 09:11 PM
You seem somewhat bitter SkyHawk

dm1333
July 14, 2008, 09:14 PM
Quote:
This is EXACTLY the kind of talk and rhetoric that defines "mall ninja-ness" perfectly.

Whatcha gonna do if one of my old scroungy-ass undercover partners come through your "high risk" metal detectors and sets it off? Or one of the boys from MacDill or Eglin or Homestead up to see the rodent with big ears and decides maybe a ring is due for their lady?

You try throwing THEM down on the floor and waving your little pistol at them, you'll be walking awful funny and awkward-like until someone takes you to a gunsmith-turned-proctologist . . .


yep, couldn't agree more

+1000!
__________________

hoji
July 14, 2008, 09:22 PM
I spent twelve years in craphole neighborhoods and housing projects and so on working as an undercover federal narcotics agent.

What's your experience with these places?

Didn't run into too many mall ninjas there--didn't run into too many uniformed credentialed law enforcement types there either. If there were real, effective security there, then there wouldn't have been much of a need for my and my folks to be there, now would there?

So that dog don't hunt.

Casinos? Vast majority of their security--especially senior security--are retired FBI and IRS CID agents, with surprisingly, a large number of retired military NIS/OSI/CID types as well.

Again, trained, proven, educated professionals. I doubt anyone here thinks of them as "mall ninjas."

Federal buildings? Generally the security is handled by GSA. Around the magnotometer and courts and USA's office, that security is provided by CSOs (Court Security Officers) who are deputized United States Marshals. I've yet to mee the CSO who wasn't a retired cop or gov't investigator of some sort. I know two are who retired CIA officers from the Directorate of Operations (a mall ninja's absolute wet dream job).

Major power plants? If they have a contract with DOE, or if they're nuclear (in which case they're regulated by DOE), then most of their security is ex-military.

Anyone remember the old Pantex plant in Amarillo, Texas? They built/disassembled nuclear warheads among other things. Their security team was made up almost entirely of former SEALs, PJs, Rangers/Special Forces, and recon Marines. I knew a lot of those guys as it was a very plumb job to go after when you decided to discharge from the service.

Point being that they are ALL PRIVATELY EMPLOYED SECURITY OFFICERS now.

Plenty of experience in section 8 housing before I got my Wildland Conservation/Land Management Ranger position. The complexes our company handled were horrible before we went in.

As hamstrung as we are{as far as actual arrest authority goes} we arresetd for 42.01s, and felonies{ag assault,auto burglary were the most common}issued CTWs, and made it a point to write down every license plate { if a unit was getting 25 - 5 minute visits per night} and the unit they went to. Turned information over to Local PD.

But the point is the private company I worked for would get compliance for 10-12 hours {however long the shift was} per day , everyday. We had enough composure, presence, and will to get it done.
Night time dealing became non-existant. Zombies looking to score went away, domestic violence went down and the crime rate in general dropped.

Even got positive feedback from the local PD{ a real rarity in private security}
Not all private security guards are "mall ninjas} just as every DEA agent is not that moron who shot himself in the leg{only one professional enough}:D

Regolith
July 14, 2008, 09:24 PM
You seem somewhat bitter SkyHawk

I would be too if one of them had outed me during an undercover narcotics operation (as per one of his previous posts).



Don't have much experience with security types myself. The only ones I see with any regularity are the University security guys, and the only time I've had to deal with them was once when I needed a door opened late at night, and once or twice when I was up working late either trying to get the student newspaper finished up and sent to the printer or when working on a project for a class. Every time they just made sure I was supposed to be there and then asked politely to make sure the doors were shut when I left. Most of them are students themselves, and I've yet to run into a mall ninja type amongst them.

Threeband
July 14, 2008, 09:40 PM
I am STILL waiting for a photo of that van.

dogtown tom
July 14, 2008, 09:42 PM
I'm a teacher, so I get summers off (unless I'm working a soccer camp or teaching summer school). Occassionally I'll work a temp job, 'cause frankly- sitting on my butt is boring and I like $$$.:D

Summer 1993 I couldn't pass the Texas Shopping Center Covert Licensing Exam so I found a summer job as a "security officer" at Enron in Houston. Yeah, THAT Enron. Once I get there I found out that I'll actually be an employee of a private contractor and not Enron.

First and foremost my "mission" was protection of property. Although earlier shifts got to escort the ladies to the parking garage, all I got to do was walk floors 26-50+ of the Enron Building and turn off coffee pots.

My "uniform" was a navy blue sportcoat and grey slacks. Which is good- I'm not into the uniform thing. So not so much the typical Mall Ninja outfit, more like a car salesman. I was told the chicks dig that look.

They refused to issue me a Glock, Tec Nine, 8 cell MagLight or even handcuffs. Other "officers" said a small flashlight was all I would need. But I did get a big a$$ed radio to carry around. I still don't get that 10 Code crap. If you want to know where I'm at- ask me "where you at?"

Occassionally I would get to sit at the lobby desk and "buzz" people in through the doors. You can't imagine that kind of POWER! Even Ken Lay had to wait for me to let him in. (well, IF he had shown up at 3am he would have)

I have to brag- I did stop one crime in progress. Sitting at the lobby desk trying to stay awake at 3am, I see lights from an approaching car in front of the building. They can't see me, I'm sitting behind a massive granite counter that is about four feet high. The car stops, four guys jump out and have the doors and hood of a new Chevy pickup open and have cut the alarm so quick it only chirped once! I (in a very calm voice) scream "AAAAAAHHHHH THEY'RE STEALING CAAAAAAARRRRRSSSSS!!!!!!!" over the radio. As I'm keying the mike I'm also standing up- now they see me and jump back into their car and take off, leaving a hammer, slim jim and some other tools in the Chevy.

Ten minutes later, no cops. Turns out our "supervisor" thought I was kidding and didn't dial 911. I did get a $25 savings bond as a "reward".

Working that 11pm - 7am shift that one summer screwed up my sleep habits for YEARS!

BTW- no one I worked with acted like a ninja- more like James Bond with the whole coat and tie thing. But everyone WAS ex military (except me).

KiltedClaymore
July 14, 2008, 09:43 PM
"WHERE IS THE VAN!!!!!!"

-Dane Cook

Threeband
July 14, 2008, 09:48 PM
The Van! The Van!

This thread has drifted shamelessly.

We want to see the Van!

KiltedClaymore
July 14, 2008, 09:55 PM
"vanstock" anybody?

slabuda
July 14, 2008, 09:57 PM
1. Retired military looking to supplement their pension. As far as they're concerned, they're pullin' CQ for 8 hours.'

Dude that is so funny!!!! CQ sucks, especially when you ned to pull it in the barracks because the airmen are being stupid (translate to not cleaning up their mess or being smart enough to get caught by Sgt.)

But hey, you all know everything. I mean with the breaking of arms and tossing in fountain fantasies, who is the mall ninja?

;)

TexasSkyhawk
July 14, 2008, 11:04 PM
You seem somewhat bitter SkyHawk

Even got positive feedback from the local PD{ a real rarity in private security}
Not all private security guards are "mall ninjas} just as every DEA agent is not that moron who shot himself in the leg{only one professional enough}


Sigh.

Yeah, still a bit pissed off that so many clueless mall managers, car lot dealers, etc continue to scrape BELOW the barrel (not even the bottom of it) for what passes as "security" simply to satisfy insurance requirements.

It gets old having these idiots coat-tail you around places, tell you how much they want to be a DEA/FBI/ATF/USBP/US Marshal type, but because of a "bum knee" or "an old wound from the military" that the "government just wouldn't take them."

Spare me. I got shot three times in the service and I still passed the physical. It's normally because these numbnuts have the IQ of a dead houseplant or because they're a good one hundred or more pounds overweight . . . that's their obstacle.

Also got old having them continuously burn your cover. Finally, we just quit telling them who we were unless absolutely necessary--then promised them arrest and disappearance via the black helicopters :rolleyes: if they burned us in any way.

And EVEN THEN. . .

Good ones? Absolutely. But they are not what I call "mall ninjas."

They are security professionals. Big difference, as I thought I explained earlier.

I've worked with part-time pimple-faced college kids who wore a ugly light blue shirt and tin-pie badge who were better to work with than a lot of my own agents. Likewise, I've worked with corproate internal security folks that were BETTER than most of my own agents.

Better pay does attract better quality.

But do know that there IS a difference between a mall ninja and a security professional.

I've never had a security professional try to arrest me, but I have had mall ninjas try.

Clear enough?

Jeff

P.S. That bozo agent who shot himself? Most of us wished he had been showing the kids how not to look down inside your barrel instead. . . He was to us what that Baltimore slob cop is to everyday police officers.

Big Boomer
July 15, 2008, 12:11 AM
Still waiting for the picture of that van!!!

arthurcw
July 15, 2008, 12:33 AM
Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van! Van!:neener:

lloydkristmas
July 15, 2008, 12:34 AM
I have exhausted my resources and poured over countless apocalyptic threads in an attempt to establish an official formula for calculating the likelihood that you are a mall ninja.

(b) +/- (B^2 x (3+A-Cy)) / 2(X)-h
Where "b" is the number of ATI products you have on your shotgun or SKS. (Go ahead and multiply this number by 2 if your SKS has a scope). "B" is the number of items in your "tactical disaster inventory" that were originally marketed for airsoft wargames. "A" is the difference between the actual number of magazine pouches your airsoft vest has and the actual number of magazines you own. Go ahead and square "A" if you have ever watched anime porn. "C" is your waist size and "y" is the number of days you have spent in real live combat. This number should cancel to zero so dont worry about it. Then we divide by 2 times "X" which is typically defined as the number of quarters your boss gives you in case you need to call the real police. Lastly, we will use "h" to refer to the number of times you have secretly wondered how cool it would be to slip on that full scale Boba Fett costume in your moms basement and live out your zombie-killing dream in style. Dont forget to carry the 1.

esmith
July 15, 2008, 12:36 AM
"WHERE IS THE VAN!!!!!!"

Wheres the van!!!! The van was supposed to be here!!! Booom boom crash mush! You! Me! Us!

--I want to see that!

classic.

LiquidTension
July 15, 2008, 01:22 AM
Wow.

Well, the extra paycheck isn't that big :neener:

Upon further consideration, I guess I don't really look like a mall ninja. Standing 6'01" and 193lbs is only marginally overweight instead of GREATLY overweight :)

Oh yeah, since no one else has mentioned it - where are the pics?

Monkeybear
July 15, 2008, 01:43 AM
My mom was a security guard for the building of a very large investment company. Basically she got paid a lot of money to report the events of the day, perimeter the building at set intervals and generally be courteous to anyone around her. Two things she always complained about were people who worked with her that thought they were cops and people who were rude to her because she wasn't. Often she noticed they acted pretty similar. That same swagger if you will.

One issue she dealt with on a regular basis was people parking where they should not, mostly bikes next to the doors or cars where they would block things. Lots of reasons why those spots were restricted but more importantly it was her job to ask you to move. She would simply say it was requested by the building owners that no vehicles be parked near the entrances and most normal people would just re-park in the garage. If you didn't she alerted the supervisor who would just have it towed, as was policy, and make a notation of the event in her report. She told me about this when I asked her if she had any authority. She said she did not but didn't feel like she needed any, she was just made sure things were like the building owners wanted and when they were not they used their authority to rectify it.

You own a Harley, or you don't.

You had to bring that into it didn't you. Harley bikes are OK, I guess. Nothing special about them unless you have a tendency for elitism. A very good family friend of my fiance's owns 4 Harley dealerships that I have personally been to as well as a couple of other dealerships. A fine gentleman who offered to make me a wonderful deal on a nice Harley. I bought a Honda. :p

JMACDONALD
July 15, 2008, 02:03 AM
Five pages in and no van, WTH mate?

HK G3
July 15, 2008, 04:17 AM
(b) +/- (B^2 x (3+A-Cy)) / 2(X)-h
Where "b" is the number of ATI products you have on your shotgun or SKS. (Go ahead and multiply this number by 2 if your SKS has a scope). "B" is the number of items in your "tactical disaster inventory" that were originally marketed for airsoft wargames. "A" is the difference between the actual number of magazine pouches your airsoft vest has and the actual number of magazines you own. Go ahead and square "A" if you have ever watched anime porn. "C" is your waist size and "y" is the number of days you have spent in real live combat. This number should cancel to zero so dont worry about it. Then we divide by 2 times "X" which is typically defined as the number of quarters your boss gives you in case you need to call the real police. Lastly, we will use "h" to refer to the number of times you have secretly wondered how cool it would be to slip on that full scale Boba Fett costume in your moms basement and live out your zombie-killing dream in style. Dont forget to carry the 1.

But, if your boss doesn't give you any quarters, that means...

http://lexlibertas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/i-divided-by-zero.jpg


Also, I really don't understand why the term "mall ninja" is used to describe these wannabe military/LEO-types.

There's nothing ninja-like about these clowns. They're not deadly assassins who wield bladed weapons with any real skills to speak of...

dm1333
July 15, 2008, 06:23 AM
Spare me. I got shot three times in the service and I still passed the physical.

Been shot three times, twice in the service and once in law enforcement.

I would much rather see a picture of the van than have to listen to anymore of the chest thumping going on here. :rolleyes:

Regolith
July 15, 2008, 06:27 AM
Also, I really don't understand why the term "mall ninja" is used to describe these wannabe military/LEO-types.

There's nothing ninja-like about these clowns. They're not deadly assassins who wield bladed weapons with any real skills to speak of...

It goes back when a person using the screen-name "Gecko45" started a thread on a gun board several years ago. He claimed he was a "mall security officer" who was "trained in the ancient art of ninjitsu" and that because of that he had special boots in order to clime walls. Hence the term Mall Ninja.

He also claimed various things such as being lauded by the mayor for "saving his nephew's virginity" by stopping a gang-rape attempt in the bathroom, having a "tactical golf cart" which contained special weaponry at his disposal, leading a special reaction strike team, working with various government agencies to defeat various threads, and needing to duct tape "ballistic trauma plates" to his back in case he took fire from a "high powered sniper rifle."

The entire thread was of course satire, written specifically to parody the types we are discussing in this thread, but it's widely regarded as the origin of the term "mall ninja" for use in this context. I'll see if I can dig up some links - the thread's been archived at several websites.

divemedic
July 15, 2008, 06:29 AM
http://www.geocities.com/suketh.geo/gun/mall_ninja.html

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

Regolith
July 15, 2008, 06:32 AM
Dive....yup, that's it. Thernlund also linked to them on post 92:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4704184&postcount=92

dm1333
July 15, 2008, 06:38 AM
Didn't Gecko also save the mayors son from an indignity no man should suffer?

Treo
July 15, 2008, 06:46 AM
Didn't Gecko also save the mayors son from an indignity no man should suffer?

I think that was right before he got outted on a double super secret undercover mission for one of those goverment alphabet agencies.

possom813
July 15, 2008, 06:50 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2459746161_2a15d4e8cf.jpg?v=0

Old Guy
July 15, 2008, 06:53 AM
Goodness Gracious! Just fired up the Lap Top!
Hundreds of posts! This must be the most popular thread on THR! the difference seems to be if you can prove the statements you make or write, yes? How can you do that to the satisfaction of anyone?

Tossing people into fountains etc, not me personally, I am a retired Firearms Instructor, born in 1935, (hence Old Guy, I am) my Family spent a few years dodging bombs in the large Brit seaport of Liverpool UK (our war started in 1939) Ex Military yes, no not an ex Seal, or even one of what we had frogmen. To supplement a daytime salaried position with a young family I worked part time on the nights all my mates went out drinking, and other pastimes that cost money that I did not have.

Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights from early evening till midnight, or 1AM depending on the Club, 4 years at The Cavern Club of Beatle fame 1960 till 64, and one year at the Blue Angel on Seal Street, a Night Club, (closest I got to a Seal) we Doormen (Bouncers) of that era wore black suits, clip on ties, and nice black shoes with steel toe caps (Bouncer boots!) funny enough our major problem was keeping people out we did not want in, not throwing people out.

No alcohol at the Cave, the single chap with the indentation on his wedding ring finger! on the outside, a few pints on the inside! if this type met the 16 year old, dressed and made up to look 20! her 16 year old boy friend would have taken great exception, promptly throwing a Liverpool Kiss or two, a mess the in house Bouncers would have sooner not had to deal with, so he was not getting in, the stock answer when asked why? because you are ugly! The three of us on the street entrance dealt with those problems.

This was years b/4 the SECURITY black shirts, radios, and masses of staff. No guns then, but I did get stabbed twice.

And now retired, nearly, in the US of A, who would have thought it, all the hand guns gone in the UK, any law abiding resident of Florida can have one, and a lot do, it's the criminal element who can not? but do, we have to look out for.

xjchief
July 15, 2008, 06:54 AM
Where are the van pics!!!!!!!!!!

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 12:40 PM
Wheres the van!!!! The van was supposed to be here!!! Booom boom crash mush! You! Me! Us!

finaly someone got that reference.


BUT WHERE IS THE BLEEDIN' VAN????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

cxg231
July 15, 2008, 12:57 PM
...born in 1935, (hence Old Guy, I am) my Family spent a few years dodging bombs in the large Brit seaport of Liverpool UK (our war started in 1939)...

Did you get evacuated to the countryside like many of the other children? If not, the Liverpool blitz must have been one heck of a thing for a young child to go thru.

And to keep this on-topic, where are the van pictures? :)

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 12:57 PM
Ex Military yes

Thank you for your service, you probably do have more knowledge than your average mall ninja.

My concern, again, is that you are not a sworn officer. There used to be a line between the training and objectives taught for soldiers and police. Police are peace keepers. Mall ninjas are nothing.

You have no Writ under law to do anything but watch me and call the real cops. Period.

As you were pulling yourself out of the fountain, you would say to the real cops, "I used to be a British Soldier."

To which one of the real cops would say to you, "Well, mate, you're under arrest for assault and impersonating an officer."

And let me sum this up for the last time. Your wives and daughters go to these malls. If that area is rightly dangerous, then off duty real cops should patrol the mall. (Off duty required in some jursidictions because it is private property.) But if there is real danger, no cameras, no real cops and only mall ninjas, you are responsible for making some weighty choices.

To that end, I am an American citizen with a well documented list of enumerated rights. None of these rights will be surrendered to a mall ninja who thinks he's Barney Fife incarnate.

You touch me for any imagined reason and I will respond with the bottled anger of a wronged man who confronts an aggressive townie.

So if you decide to don the uniform of "The Few, The Confused, The Clueless," you'd better research your limitations and trouble you can get into pretending to be a police officer. And if you see a biker having a sandwich with his wife, just move along, Barney.

offthepaper
July 15, 2008, 01:00 PM
Possum

Looks like a reject of Mr. T's from the "A" team. :neener:

possom813
July 15, 2008, 01:14 PM
^^^^

They wanted a van, and it was the first search result for "tactical van"

I aim to please

ceetee
July 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
I hope someone treats me with the same patience if the shoe should ever be on the other foot.


Odd. The first thing I though was "If I get to the point where all I have to do is talk about my poop I hope someone puts has the patience to put a bullet in my head not listen to me.".


"This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them. Humouring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply."

-- Robert Heinlein

Usually, if I'm in an uncomfortable situation like that, I tend to just smile, and nod. It costs me nothing, possibly earns me a friendship (or at the very least keeps me from acting like a jerk).

That said, most mall ninjas don't threaten me in any way. Vapid boasting doesn't hurt me, it doesn't take anything away from my manliness, and deliberately proving someone out to be something he's not only causes harm. It's not like showing a group of total strangers that this particular security guard isn't the Navy SEEL he claims to be is going to save America from the Commies. Let 'em keep their delusions.

If you have to interact with them on a daily basis, it's useful information to know - you know who you can count on, and just how far. Other than that, why go out of your way to be mean? What respect does that earn you? There are probably even ways to gently suggest that such a person get fit, take some training... maybe improve on their skills, instead of just bragging on skills they don't have. Who knows - if you could convince someone to improve their own abilities, you may one day be responsible for saving a life.

DRZinn
July 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
You have no Writ under law to do anything but watch me and call the real cops. Period.Well, in most states (all?) that's not true. They can arrest in certain cases. Those would be the same cases in which any citizen can arrest.

Treo
July 15, 2008, 02:34 PM
The company I work for, works for the city. certain of our officers ( not including me) absolutely do have arrest (or at least detain, handcuff & turn over to the police) authority.
If I wanted to deal W/ all that crap I'd go be a cop ( as if). I'm quite happy cruising around in my little Jeep vibe harassing porcupines.

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 04:09 PM
absolutely do have arrest

Publish the local ordinance, some form of your ID, a copy of your company's written rules and regulations for its employees.

Otherwise, cut the nonsense.

hoji
July 15, 2008, 04:25 PM
In Texas a SO {and any other citizen}can arrest for Breach of the Peace42.01 Texas Penal Code, Prevent Consequences of Theft 18.16 Texas Penal code, and any felony. All of which is contingent on being in the presence or view of the Security Officer.

Furthermore, if you resist a lawful arrest by a SO, and cause injury, you can be charged with a third degree felony{2-10 years } Same charge as assaulting a Peace Officer.

So come on down to Texas for ROT, be a jackass at one of the hotels, and you could find yourself staying for awhile, especially if you toss a uniformed officer in a fountain.

Treo
July 15, 2008, 04:28 PM
Publish the local ordinance, some form of your ID, a copy of your company's written rules and regulations for its employees.

No
Like I said it's not part of my job, it never will be part of my job. And I couldn't care less. If it's that important to you, you Google it.

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 15, 2008, 04:34 PM
Tourist, you may have to accept that you are not personally privy to every state, city, county, and municipal code in the nation regarding who can and cannot "arrest" or detain. As treo said, you're the one getting upset over others speaking of authority and privileges you have not previously heard of. If it's so important to you, the entirety of the WWW is at your disposal.

Maplicito
July 15, 2008, 04:42 PM
Dunno if there's anything equivalent to this in the US, but in Canada, security guards do have some powers. ie:

A guard can ask a person to leave property and they can ban someone from property if rules are broken. When doing so, guards should be professional and indicate which rule is being broken.

If someone refuses to leave property when asked, he/she may be viewed as a trespasser. Guards can use reasonable force to remove trespassers and they can make a citizen's arrest if a trespasser actively resists lawful efforts to remove them.

Trespassing: an offence under the provincial Trespass Act typically means 1) entering someone else's property, 2) engaging in prohibited activities on that property, or 3) not leaving after being told to do so.

Guards have no authority to arrest under the provincial Trespass Act.

Assault by Trespass: a criminal offence under the Criminal Code of Canada typically means a trespasser who resists lawful efforts of removal.

Guards can conduct a citizen's arrest against a trespasser who actively resists efforts to have him/her removed from private property.

Thernlund
July 15, 2008, 05:00 PM
Tourist, you may have to accept that you are not personally privy to every state, city, county, and municipal code in the nation regarding who can and cannot "arrest" or detain.

I am. I'm so tactical that they consult me on it. All of them.

Wait... what thread is this?


-T.

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 05:17 PM
senior (member) moment i guess...

Threeband
July 15, 2008, 05:39 PM
Where Is The Mall Ninja Van?
We Demand Photographic Documentation.

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 05:43 PM
Here Is The Ultimatum. Either We Get The Van, Or We Take Your First Born To Do Our Lawn Chores.

Smith
July 15, 2008, 05:44 PM
*Begins to chant while pounding table* Van! Van! Van! Van!

Thernlund
July 15, 2008, 05:46 PM
Van! Van! Van! Van! ...


-T.

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 05:49 PM
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k190/simplyrugged/internet-soldier.jpg

do he look like this?

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 05:57 PM
wait...i found a better one...



http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/pix2082447640.jpg

Threeband
July 15, 2008, 06:07 PM
Just to keep us all focused on what's really important, the OP said:

In addition to this, he drives an old van. On the side of the van, he has printed out, in red lettering, on computer paper:

PROTECTION OFFICER: FIRST RESPONSE UNIT



... I'll post pics of his van the next time I see it. Should be next week or so.



Your mission is to find and photograph that van, and post the pictures here.

If you succeed in your mission, the Van will become as Infamous as the Tactical Wheelbarrow, or Gecko45's Golf Cart.

But should you fail...

Oh...

Um Hmmmmm...

But you will not fail,

now will you?

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 06:18 PM
Tourist, you may have to accept that you are not personally privy to every state, city, county, and municipal code in the nation regarding who can and cannot "arrest" or detain. As treo said, you're the one getting upset over others speaking of authority

I can prove who I am in five minutes, so can you.

I am not asking him for any info here in a hobbyist forum that I would not ask him for in real life. And he better be able to prove his claims if he stops me.

If you stop me, touch me or hinder my movements, telling me, "I am not a sworn officer but I have the power to arrest you--I just can't prove it," then welcome to the fountain.

My State of Wisconsin is cracking down on these guys. In fact a few years ago our local TV station did a series of stories on the frauds who pull people over using old squad cars and lights purchased at the Radio Shack.

If a plains clothes officer pulls me over, I have the right to ask for ID. In Wisconsin, I can even ask for a uniformed officer if something doesn't smell right. I can even ease my car or motorcycle to a well lit area.

And that's assuming I am conversing with a real cop.

In some jurisdictions he has committed a felony by stating he has police powers. Let's get to the truth.

blkbrd666
July 15, 2008, 06:41 PM
7 pages...no van??? Hmmpf!

JShirley
July 15, 2008, 07:08 PM
TexasSkyHawk,

I spent twelve years in craphole neighborhoods and housing projects and so on working as an undercover federal narcotics agent.

What's your experience with these places?

You've talked a lot about your experiences- almost always in nebulous terms. Your background would be no more important than other posters, except you keep bringing it up as evidence of knowledge of a subject matter. YOU have made it an issue. I just haven't seen anything that constitutes any proof at all. I only served most of a year in a combat zone, and I have lots and lots of pictures of me, of Afghanistan, and of me in Afghanistan. Haven't seen any from you. Haven't seen any specifics, either.

Send me proof. I'll take evidence of your three gunshots. I'll take evidence of your supposed slide to the face. I would be satisfied with the equivalent of a DD214 that details your military service and awards. I will keep all of your information in confidence, except to post in this thread that you have indeed provided bonafides.

You have made your supposed past military and law enforcement service an issue. I am asking you to prove it. Don't send more nebulous stories. Just send proof.

My contact information is in my profile, or you can email to THRWebmaster(at)gmail.com. I'll be waiting.

John

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 07:14 PM
No, Like I said it's not part of my job, it never will be part of my job. And I couldn't care less.

...ah, like I figured...

Did I ever tell you about the time I cut the pit out a cherry with a meat cleaver on a Sportster going 175 MPH to save Britney Spears?

Well, it never made the papers...

davidjblythe
July 15, 2008, 07:19 PM
Van Van Van Van Van....

divemedic
July 15, 2008, 07:38 PM
In Texas a SO {and any other citizen}can arrest for Breach of the Peace42.01 Texas Penal Code, Prevent Consequences of Theft 18.16 Texas Penal code, and any felony. All of which is contingent on being in the presence or view of the Security Officer.

In other words, you have the same super citizen power that anyone else has- the magic power of citizen's arrest.

Furthermore, if you resist a lawful arrest by a SO, and cause injury, you can be charged with a third degree felony{2-10 years }

Of course, the key here is LAWFUL arrest. Tricky thing, citizen's arrest. But of course, a security guard using all of the knowledge gained in his entire 30 hours of training would know that already.

iowajones
July 15, 2008, 07:38 PM
Dude, where's my van?

iowajones
July 15, 2008, 07:41 PM
In other words, you have the same super citizen power that anyone else has- the magic power of citizen's arrest.

Not in North Carolina. I just took my concealed carry course last Saturday and if the guy in my house who I'm holding at gunpoint decides he wants to leave, I've got to let him.

Threeband
July 15, 2008, 07:53 PM
If he tries to leave in the Mall Ninja Van, get a freaking picture!

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 08:03 PM
In Texas a SO {and any other citizen}can arrest for Breach of the Peace42.01 Texas Penal Code, Prevent Consequences of Theft 18.16 Texas Penal code, and any felony.

In a global sense, it's a good idea. I believe Wisconsin has it in some form. And if some innocent person is being harmed, I can see the benefit.

But if you're stupid enough to go to a working cowboys' roadhouse or a bikers' bar and start handing out jaywalking tickets, you'll get what you deserve. And won't be anything as gentle as a trip to the dunk tank.

You're not Batman, you're not The Green Hornet, don't pretend you are. Don't try and sell me hype. Get a real police officer or just go away.

And if you get busted for impersonating an officer, I'll testify against you with a big ol' grin and a bucket of popcorn.

possom813
July 15, 2008, 08:09 PM
You're not Batman, you're not The Green Hornet, don't pretend you are.

http://www.thesuperheroquiz.com/


^^^
According to that, I'm the Green Lantern....

The Tourist
July 15, 2008, 08:16 PM
I'm the Green Lantern....

Some of the younger guys want to see your van.

"In brightest day, in blackest night, my Tahoe takes the corners tight..."

Dravur
July 15, 2008, 08:18 PM
I am Superman! 87%

Oh yeah... WHERE's THE BLEEDIN' VAN???

possom813
July 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
^^
I already posted the van, and was accused of it being a bad A-Team clone...

Oh well, how about this perfectly legitimate van vvvvv

http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Funny/free_candy_van.jpg

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 08:27 PM
NO ONE CARES ABOUT LEO OR MILITARY EXPERIANCE! WE JUST CAME TO SEE THE VAN!!!! BOO THESE THREAD PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *throws sandwich* I FLING MY BLT AT YOU!

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
I'm 90% green lantern

JeffLrrp
July 15, 2008, 08:45 PM
This sucks. I read 7 pages about mall ninjas and haven't even seen a tactical mall vehicle yet. Bring out the van pics ! ! ! !

Threeband
July 15, 2008, 08:53 PM
Quote:
In addition to this, he drives an old van. On the side of the van, he has printed out, in red lettering, on computer paper:

PROTECTION OFFICER: FIRST RESPONSE UNIT



... I'll post pics of his van the next time I see it. Should be next week or so.

--------------------------------------------------------

Neither of the posted vans have (paper!?) signs saying
PROTECTION OFFICER: FIRST RESPONSE UNIT

(Although "Free Candy" has a certain je ne sais quois.)

We await photos of THE Van.

We accept no substitutes.

Produce the Photo, and it will surely become an Internet Legend, like the Tactical Wheelbarrow, or the Tactical Golf Cart.

History will be made, right here, in this thread, and when you are old and in your dotage, generations yet unborn will look on you with awe, and whisper, "He was there, at the Beginning".

robmkivseries70
July 15, 2008, 09:19 PM
To all you guys that wanted to see the van, it should be back in about 5 days. :scrutiny: If I read the OP right. A very entertaining thread too.:)
Best,
Rob

Psywarrior13
July 15, 2008, 09:21 PM
I am marking it on my calender.... I can't wait

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
im so tactical, i marked my calander before this thread evemn started.




oh dear...too much posting....all...blending....together......

Threeband
July 15, 2008, 09:28 PM
Five Days.

This thread will live in Infamy, like the original Gecko45 threads.

I'm so tactical, I marked my calender, and then I ate it.

h-word
July 15, 2008, 09:28 PM
It'll be like the moon landing... Everyone will remember where they were when they saw THE VAN.

It's the only reason I keep coming back to this thread. I hope it isn't a hoax like the moon landing :D

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 09:30 PM
im so tactical, i filmed the moon landing. by MYSELF. i was both actors and cameraman.

FEG
July 15, 2008, 09:36 PM
I have been very lucky. I have never encountered a "real life" mall ninja. Most security guards I know are retired or older (near retired) LEOs. Their quality varies, just like the quality of our local law enforcement varies.

Most security here is handled by large firms like Brinks or Clark. I have no doubt they attract their share of flips, but by and large, they are pretty professional and well-trained. At the very least, the big firms do a decent job of training their employees as to what they can and cannot do.

At my college and graduate school, the security force was 100% off-duty police.

I have been lucky, I guess. Of course, I used to be a Methodist minister. "Mall Ninjas" have nothing on "Armchair Bishops."

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 09:38 PM
pray tell, what are "armchair bishops" and do they carry guns?

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 09:49 PM
REO, i hear SPETSNAZ captured the van

divemedic
July 15, 2008, 10:14 PM
Only because they thought the Nessie munching Reo clone was in it.

Missed him by THAT much.

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 10:17 PM
they told me they aint giving it back either. and they aint postin pics.

FEG
July 15, 2008, 10:41 PM
im so tactical, i filmed the moon landing. by MYSELF. i was both actors and cameraman.

I'm so tactical, I capture, beat, and interrogate myself three times a day, just to stay in shape. (The third time, I do it in low lighting conditions, so I can use my rail accessories and give myself the third degree.)

yesit'sloaded
July 15, 2008, 10:41 PM
I want van pics.

FEG
July 15, 2008, 10:43 PM
pray tell, what are "armchair bishops" and do they carry guns?

"Armchair Bishops" are the religious equivalent of "Monday Morning Quarterbacks," only God told them what you should have done, not the AM sports radio shock jock.

It's just worse, trust me...

gym
July 15, 2008, 10:45 PM
I say we kidnap him, strip him down, and leave him and his bullett belt, on the nearest interstate.

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 10:49 PM
who? the bishop?

KiltedClaymore
July 15, 2008, 10:51 PM
Vanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvanvan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fell Asleep On My ! Key.

janobles14
July 15, 2008, 11:28 PM
im not tactical....just tacticool! :neener:

i havent laughed this hard in a long time! great thread!

.....and post the van...lol :evil:

FEG
July 16, 2008, 12:05 AM
who? the bishop?

It's... THE BISHOP!!!

Seriously though, if we had had more bishops like Terry Jones, then I would still be an ordained minister.

North of 49th
July 16, 2008, 12:50 AM
I'm so tactical, I capture, beat, and interrogate myself three times a day, just to stay in shape. (The third time, I do it in low lighting conditions, so I can use my rail accessories and give myself the third degree.)

OMG... That is way to tacticool for me... I can't handle the low light conditions yet. I haven't got rail accessories for my boots and knee pads yet:neener:

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 01:01 AM
this thread is destined for great things...

Wopasaurus
July 16, 2008, 01:22 AM
I'm so tactical... I superimposed Jabba The Hut and Boba Fett in the newer versions of the first original Star Wars movie!.

I'm also so tactical that .... I already saw the van!!!

And It was glorious....

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 01:24 AM
VAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Treo
July 16, 2008, 01:25 AM
d not ask him for in real life. And he better be able to prove his claims if he stops me.

If you stop me, touch me or hinder my movements, telling me, "I am not a sworn officer but I have the power to arrest you--I just can't prove it,"

He said, as he completely ignored the fact that I've stated several times that I have zero police authority,( and that, that is more than I want) and that my job entails guarding property, and that I don't deal W/ people (except for the last hour of my shift).

Tell me Turista, how many hours a day do you have to train to be an internet bad ass?

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 01:29 AM
Stop Making This Thread Serious!!!!!!

The Tourist
July 16, 2008, 01:51 AM
Tell me Turista, how many hours a day do you have to train to be an internet bad ass?

Clearly, I train a lot more at being a real life biker and knife sharpener than you practice in being a enforcement fraud on the internet.

I've known guys like you all of my life--my real life I mean, in case you haven't gotten the point.

You brag, you bark, you spend zero time in proving your boasts or your credentials, and then when trapped, you lash out.

Yikes, if you spent as much time and energy telling the truth as you do spinning yarns this thread would have been over days ago.

Here is my side, poser. Call Capital City Harley-Davidson, 608-221-2761. A good time is Wednesday afternoon, I'm there sharpening. About twenty employees know my history, my bike and carry the knives I provide.

That good enough for you, faker?

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 01:53 AM
if you want to bicker, do so in private messages. dont mess with our laughs. we want this thread open for the van pictures, so we cant have you two ladies throwing down in it! thank you and good night!


VIVE LE VAN!!!

The Tourist
July 16, 2008, 01:59 AM
do so in private messages

You have my apologies. This type of guy is the sort who grinds me the most, and I'm sorry. I doubt he'll be bothering us again.

Besides, I'd kind of like to see the van myself.

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 02:01 AM
doesn't everybody? its like waiting for christmas!!!

waverace
July 16, 2008, 02:02 AM
at least you know when christmas will arrive :rolleyes:

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 02:05 AM
...or DO we???

The Tourist
July 16, 2008, 02:08 AM
Just how fancy-schmancy is this van supposed to get?

KiltedClaymore
July 16, 2008, 02:11 AM
WE DONT KNOW. according to the legend (yes, it is now officialy a legend), it is big, black, lettered, and so totaly tacticool that your head will explode trying to comprehend it

The Tourist
July 16, 2008, 02:13 AM
For some reason I got the idea that this was supposed to be a modern rendition of the A-Team van.

JShirley
July 16, 2008, 02:18 AM
Stop Making This Thread Serious!!!!!!

What thread? Keep this kind of crap up if you want to lose General.

Closed. <spit>

John

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