suppressor or HK91?


PDA






Vegaslaith
July 12, 2008, 10:14 PM
I'm having some trouble decidging which one to buy-a .223 suppressor or an HK91. I just wanted to see what others' opinions were.

If you enjoyed reading about "suppressor or HK91?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bowman140
July 12, 2008, 10:32 PM
I don't know anything about the HK91, but I do know that even with a supressor, a .223 is still very loud. I knew a guy who had one on his mini 14 and it was nowhere near what you see in the movies.

Tyris
July 12, 2008, 10:33 PM
Go for the silencer. Roller-lock guns are a pain to clean.

-T

Conqueror
July 12, 2008, 10:41 PM
You must be getting a bargain on that HK. Cheapest HK rifle I've ever seen for sale was about 4x the price of my .223 can.

bogie
July 12, 2008, 10:43 PM
Get a Remington 700 in .308, a Jewell trigger, a Leupold or Weaver scope, and a good handloading setup.

Just Jim
July 12, 2008, 10:46 PM
Buy the gun, you lose money buying a suppressor.

jj

Tyris
July 12, 2008, 10:51 PM
Buy the gun, you lose money buying a suppressor.


The money is typically lost on a SALE.

The silencer will do something the HK cant do, it can make the 223 more quiet.
This is the reason I stopped buying new guns and buy cans.

-T

Just Jim
July 12, 2008, 11:02 PM
Without a gun the suppressor is just a hunk of metal. I own a gemteck m4 entry suppressor and after all was said and done it cost $650. I can't sell it and get my $650 back but I could good money back out of a gun.
I won't sell it cause it's on my home defense rifle but if I needed to they are harder to sell than a gun.

jj

Tyris
July 13, 2008, 12:19 AM
Without a gun the suppressor is just a hunk of metal. I own a gemteck m4 entry suppressor and after all was said and done it cost $650. I can't sell it and get my $650 back but I could good money back out of a gun.
I won't sell it cause it's on my home defense rifle but if I needed to they are harder to sell than a gun.


He stated that he had a 223 already, that is what the silencer would be for.

If you're worried about getting "money back" from gun accessories then you're holding a flawed view that they're some sort of investment.

-T

taprackbang
July 13, 2008, 12:51 AM
"Roller-lock guns are a pain to clean."

No prob for me. Cleaning my PTR 91 is a no-brainer. Field strip, .45 bore brush for the fluted chamber, bore snake for the bore, and solvent. Voila! Done....
Go for the PTR 91 because .308 will stop someone (or something) way better than .223 will. Also .308 will perforate cover.

Tyris
July 13, 2008, 01:16 AM
Go for the PTR 91 because .308 will stop someone (or something) way better than .223 will. Also .308 will perforate cover.

I seriously doubt he will be shooting people with his HK-91.

The number one reasons gun ranges are shut down in america is due to noise complaints. Silencers on the muzzles of rifles would quell that complaint.

-T

HK G3
July 13, 2008, 01:27 AM
Go for the silencer. Roller-lock guns are a pain to clean.

Not true at all. Just have a can of Break-Free CLP and the original HK G3 German military cleaning kit, and you can get it spotlessly clean in about 15 minutes.

I'm extremely biased in favor of HK G3-type rifles, so you can guess what my vote will be :)

Tyris
July 13, 2008, 01:33 AM
Heh. Out of all the guns I've ever owned, the roller locked CETME in 308 was the dirtiest.
No FAL, AK, or AUG I have ever even came close to getting the innards that dirty.

If you guys have found a way to clean the interior sides of the receiver, the nooks and crannies of the bolt carrier and the bolt without using a giant ultrasonic cleaner, then I am in awe.

-T

TexasRifleman
July 13, 2008, 01:42 AM
From a political standpoint there is a bigger chance of the HK91 style rifles being banned than suppressors over the next few years.

The NFA as it exists today is most likely safe from more restriction for now.

taprackbang
July 13, 2008, 01:59 AM
"I seriously doubt he will be shooting people with his HK-91."

The HK / PTR is a battle rifle for use out to 500 yards. I am being consistent with it's intended use and .308 is the lowest common denominator.

BTW, no deer hunter that I know of would think of shooting a deer with a .223 at 100 yards.

taprackbang
July 13, 2008, 02:01 AM
Sometimes when hunting deer you have to perforate some cover.

Vegaslaith
July 13, 2008, 03:19 AM
You must be getting a bargain on that HK. Cheapest HK rifle I've ever seen for sale was about 4x the price of my .223 can.

The can I was eyein' is around
$600 MSRP.(AAC M4 1000) The HK91 about $1070 out the door. Its not so much the price--I just want one or the other before......you know.

Kenneth Lew
July 13, 2008, 03:31 AM
The suppressor will cost you:

$650 MSRP
$200 Transfer Tax
$50-$100 Dealer Fee

If you are getting a TRUE GERMAN HK 91 for $1.070, I would go for the HK 91. Suppressors are nice, but you can recover your investment on the rifle if you loose interest.

Vegaslaith
July 13, 2008, 03:37 AM
No, its not a real German HK.

Tyris
July 13, 2008, 03:41 AM
Any dealer that charges a transfer fee on top of MSRP is bad news.

I get mine at deep discount + $50 transfer fee, totals well under MSRP.

-T

Nate C.
July 13, 2008, 04:45 AM
I'd go for the firearm over the can. The can is an expensive novelty with no real practical application in realistic terms.

Zach S
July 13, 2008, 04:51 AM
I'd get the can, but I don't like HK91 style rifles. I shot one that had a collapsible stock on it, i think that turned me off of them.

husbandofaromanian
July 13, 2008, 06:50 AM
I am in the process of getting a Gemtech piranha suppressor for my .223 pistol (G2 Contender). I no longer want to shoot a firearm without a suppressor. My hearing and my children's hearing when they shoot with me are too valuable to risk.

Arkady
July 13, 2008, 12:51 PM
If your local guy charges you full retail plus a transfer fee for a suppressor, then he is a crook.

Moving on-- the suppressor is a great buy because of its convenience.
Noise complaints? No problem.
I've found that the M4-1000 is comfortable to shoot without protection if you're not under a roof when you fire, and still not painful even then.

You'll find that the can makes your rifle much more pleasent to shoot, if a bit dirtier when you clean it.

Just Jim
July 13, 2008, 12:56 PM
If you're worried about getting "money back" from gun accessories then you're holding a flawed view that they're some sort of investment.

Thank you for reinforcing my point, you get no money back for accessories compared to the gun itself. Suppressors are not a good investment.

jj

jerkface11
July 13, 2008, 12:58 PM
BTW, no deer hunter that I know of would think of shooting a deer with a .223 at 100 yards

Umm why not?

AK103K
July 13, 2008, 03:04 PM
Roller-lock guns are a pain to clean.
And the cans arent?

The HK's are no dirtier or more of a pain than an AR to clean.

The money is typically lost on a SALE.
Depends. I paid $5-600 for my 91's and sold them for about $2000 each also made a good amount of money on all the extras. Anything HK will bring a premium. No loss there.

With the can, you need to find a buyer, and deal with the transfer. I know, its not a biggie if your into NFA items, but it does turn most of the unknowing people off.

I shot one that had a collapsible stock on it, i think that turned me off of them.
I can believe that. Those stocks on the rifle caliber guns are not fun to shoot. With a standard A2 type fixed stock, they are fine.

Conqueror
July 13, 2008, 06:27 PM
The can is an expensive novelty with no real practical application in realistic terms.
What planet are you from? I'd love to live in a place where hearing damage isn't a concern for people who use firearms.

Tyris
July 13, 2008, 10:15 PM
And the cans arent?

No, cans are not.

The only rifle cans that need cleaning are for 22LR.

223 cans do not need internal cleaning. The proper way to clean them is with an ultrasonic cleaner or soak in some kind of solvent anyways, no human effort is expended.

-T

taprackbang
July 14, 2008, 12:06 AM
I would just recommend the PTR 91F from CDNN Sports. $999 out the door brand new with Match barrel and pre-ban flash suppressor. Built on HK equipment in the good ol' US of A.

taprackbang
July 14, 2008, 12:10 AM
jerkface11,

Ever take down a deer before with a .223 at that distance? Try it and let me know how it turns out.

PTK
July 14, 2008, 12:11 AM
I find a silencer for my .223 extremely useful indeed - especially in the case of my PLR-16.

Here's a video to demonstrate the "barely noticeable" noise difference...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGj6Kdmz-5U

And an AR-15 with the silencer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvQUhzMHk98

I've found that the folks who say silencers on supersonic rounds are useless, haven't fired guns with silencers on them. :)

Gunnerpalace
July 14, 2008, 03:12 AM
Go for the HK, or PTR.

The suppressor will be a pain to get, move, and depending on the range shoot.

PTK
July 14, 2008, 03:23 AM
The suppressor will be a pain to get, move, and depending on the range shoot.

They're not hard to get, don't require an interstate transfer form for temporary changes in location such as shooting matches, and most ranges are fine with them as long as you have the form 4/1 with you. :)

DoubleTapDrew
July 14, 2008, 04:19 PM
Get both!
If you aren't sure about getting a suppressor go fire a couple mags of .223 with no ear protection on :)

AK103K
July 14, 2008, 07:27 PM
go fire a couple mags of .223 with no ear protection on
Dont need to. I already got every cricket from every John Wayne and cheap cowboy movie ever made chirping in my head 24/7, whats a few more? :neener:

Bowman140
July 14, 2008, 08:28 PM
Ever take down a deer before with a .223 at that distance? Try it and let me know how it turns out.

I was with my best friend when he shot his first deer at 115 yards with a .223. My sister hunts exclusivly with a .223 and she has taken four deer, six hogs, a fallow deer, and a corsican ram. The closest shot was 83 yards and the rest were between 100-150 yards. It is all about shot placement. With a good scope the .223 can be a very accurate round.

MisterPX
July 14, 2008, 09:13 PM
KInda curious how many peple saying not to get a can have one, or have used one?

Anyhow, I feel pretty confident the can will put a bigger grin on your face than the PTR.

Hk91-762mm
July 14, 2008, 09:33 PM
Hk-91 In 7.62mm Hands Down!!

W.E.G.
July 14, 2008, 10:06 PM
A can knocks down the report of a .223 to about .22 magnum level.

That's a BIG difference.

waterhouse
July 14, 2008, 11:12 PM
I've got a PTR-91 and a Greek Sar-8. I own cans for a .22, a .45, and I have one on order for a .223.

If I could do it all over again, I would have skipped both of the .308 semis and bought more cans sooner. I'll probably sell one of the rifles shortly to fund another suppressor purchase.

True, most suppressors are a "lifetime" purchase. You will lose a good bit of money if you ever have to sell one. They should not be thought of as any sort of monetary investment. But they sure do make shooting more enjoyable, at least to me, and to most beginning shooters as well.

Vegaslaith
July 14, 2008, 11:19 PM
What do you think of your PTR, waterhouse?

taprackbang
July 17, 2008, 03:16 PM
Bowman thanks for that. Good to know. What .223 grain bullets were used in those hunts?

I have done some research on ballistics and it showed the .223 to be a 'less' than ideal round for deer in comparison to the 7.62. BUT if it works, hey, more 'fire' power to ya!

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As Nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin, (writings of Benjamin Franklin, 9:569)

jerkface11
July 17, 2008, 03:29 PM
So you're what the only Texan who doesn't use a .22 cal something or other to deer hunt? 64 grain winchester power points will more than do the job.

LiquidTension
July 17, 2008, 03:45 PM
I've got an M4-1000 on my M&P15. I love it. I think I've fired maybe 10 rounds through the gun unsuppressed since I got the can.

Word of caution: NFA items are like Pringles - you can't have just one. Once you realize that the process is not that big of a deal, you'll start collecting stamps. I got my M41k about a year and a half ago. Since then I've picked up a .22 can and a subgun. My Form 1 for SBRing an AR build is going out either Saturday or Monday. A 9mm can will be in hand before the end of the year.

I've pretty much stopped buying guns. Now I'm working on suppressing everything I have :) A suppressed .22 is some of the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

Also think about the cost of .308 ammo. Ouch!

Bowman140
July 17, 2008, 05:13 PM
Both my sister and my friend were using 55 grain jacketed hollow points.

ctdonath
July 17, 2008, 05:17 PM
If it's what I think it is, you get the suppressor and let me buy the HK91!!!

Really, though, it's apples & oranges. A can on a .223 is nice, esp. if you have a .22LR converter. An HK91 at $1K sounds like an amazing deal (IIRC). The latter will increase in value, while the former is ultimately a disposable safety device.

Correia
July 17, 2008, 05:24 PM
I've had both. Still have many suppresors. Sold the HK because it was an overpriced, overrated, ergonomically unfriendly, stamped-sheet-metal-priced-like-a-fabrege egg, bad trigger, mediocre accurate, wobbly collapsible stock that hits you in the face, pig of a gun. In a .308 I would take a FAL, AR10, M1A, or even a Saiga first.

If I was getting an HK style gun, I would skip the Germans and just get a JLD for a whole lot less.

I keep buying suppresors.

For those of you that say .223 cans don't make a difference, I would recommend you actually shoot one. And if you have shot one, and it didn't make a difference, shoot one that was designed before 1979 or not made out of a potato or soda bottle.

A modern can from somewhere like TacInv, AAC, GemTech, YHM, or any of those are at least 30 dbs of reduction, and the top of the line ones (I've been shooting a new AAC SPR) are 36 dbs. That is a huge difference. Shooting my 10.5 gun gives you a muzzle blast that you can feel inside the jelly of your eyeballs. Shooting that with my $370 Tac16 on it takes it down to a .22 Mag. The SPR can on a 12 inch sounds like a supersonic .22 LR.

No practical application? snort. :p That's a good one.

If you enjoyed reading about "suppressor or HK91?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!