becoming a felon/losing your guns


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mr_dove
July 13, 2008, 04:42 AM
I was just reading a story about a renowned professional hunter who was convicted of stealing some very valuable Big Horn Sheep heads and convicted of a felony. The article said that he was forced to turn over more than 100 firearms that he owned.

If you are convicted of a felony are you forced to turn your guns over to the police or can you dispose of them by other means such as selling or gifting to family members? Clearly a felon cannot possess the guns themself but I don't don't see why the police should get them in most situations.

This will probably vary from state to state. The article said that he was convicted in New Mexico although alot of his hunting took place in Colorado. In this particular case the mans name is Kirt Darner.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9857832

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230RN
July 13, 2008, 07:35 AM
Ancillary questions deleted. (Waiting to see if they're answered anyhow by subsequent posts.)

mnrivrat
July 13, 2008, 08:06 AM
I'm also waiting to see what the legal issues may be here, but suspect that they can confiscate the guns for either of two reasons.

First to perhaps pay fines or restitution if not paid in some other manner, and secondly under the same type laws that allow them to seize cars, and boats, and houses, etc from those who have either gained them from illegal practice, or just because they passed a seizure law saying they can.

Law enforcement loves seizures - it's revenue !

Eric F
July 13, 2008, 08:39 AM
I have 2 things to add here.
1. I would think you could turn your guns over gift them or sell them. I knew a guy that owned a gun shop in Va who was allowed to liquidate his firearms to other local dealers after he was convicted of a felony. For thew guns that no one wanted to but the feds took them.

2. I had a pistol for sale and got a phone call from a guy. When he came to look at the gun he recorded the Serial number and said he would be in contact with me. He called back the next day and wanted to meet me at the federal building.(I thought he worked there) No big deal since he offered to pay for my travel. Long story short. He had a letter stating he was a convicted felon but had permission to purchase 1 pistol for self defence. It was notorized and had a Justuice department letter head and was signed by a federal judge. really strange and I said nope not gonna sell to you this is too odd. He asked me if I would just come inside the federal building and talk to this guy in the local federal marshals office. I went up and spoke with a federal marshal. I got a letter signed from him and an ATF high ranking official stating I could sell the gun to this guy. The aparent deal was he testified against someone and refused the witness protection program. I dont know or remember everything but I made the sale right there infront of every one and the Atf guy said "gotch ya!" and I got a sinking feeling then he said just kidding and I left with cash in my hand. So I guess they make exceptions in extreeme cases too

TexasSkyhawk
July 13, 2008, 08:47 AM
It varies according the crime, commission of the crime and the purpose of the weapon.

Seeing as how many of the folks we arrested ALSO had guns (narcotics sales and guns seem to go together), we worked with ATF quite a bit on the "felon in possession of a firearm" charge. In addition, we would also seize whatever firearms we found in the crack house, meth lab, etc etc.

In those instances, unless the gun was used in the commission of a/the crime, the owner was free to retrieve them. Very few drug dealers came back for their weapons.

Very few drug dealers I ever arrested had guns worth coming back for--most carried absolute crap. This is why I ove the media hype and BS over "preferred weapons of drug dealers." Drug dealers want the baddest looking gun that is the cheapest and most plentiful. An Intratec 9mm has never particularly scared me.

In the case of this hunter, he will have to move the guns away from both his direct possession and constructive possession (access to the firearms). After he has completed the requirements of his sentence, he can apply to the court for ajudication of his rights. It's a long road, as it should be, but not an impossible one.

But if what I read about this scumbag is correct, then he deserves the angst.

Jeff

Grey_Mana
July 13, 2008, 08:50 AM
I don't know, but I think this would be the type of question to find out from your lawyer before you get convicted or plea out. Lawyers are good at writing up slick contracts like "in the event X is convicted of a felony, possession is immediately transferred to Y"

possom813
July 13, 2008, 09:33 AM
I'm not sure about all states, but my brother got convicted in a bs charge and the sheriff confiscated all the firearms on the premises the day of the incident. After the trial was over with, my brother is a felon and can't own firearms. They told him he couldn't have the 10/22 back since it's the one that was fired(no testing) but they would release the 20ga to a family member.

It ended up that I bought the guns after they were confiscated before the trial. I went and spoke with the DA concerning that and he typed up a note to release both firearms to me. When I got to the sheriff's office they were both up there waiting for me. The sheriff called the DA office to verify and I left with both guns. Granted somewhere in the ruckus the 50rd magazine for the 10/22 went missing as well as the 4x32 leupold scope.

Atla
July 13, 2008, 09:59 AM
During my Internship we handled a case of a guy who was convicted of a meth related felony, he had about two dozens firearms.

They were seized but we were able to get them back for his family to sell to help support them while he was in prison.

Standing Wolf
July 13, 2008, 10:40 AM
Before much longer, owning any hand guns or semi-automatic firearms or more than two long guns will be made a felony, which will prevent offenders from owning guns.

Stranger still, that will be rules a reasonable restriction on the right to keep and bear arms.

TallPine
July 13, 2008, 11:00 AM
In this particular case the mans name is Kirt Darner.


Believe it or not, I actually know this guy! In fact, I used to work for him in a round-about way - he was the boss of my boss.

And he is a jerk and double-crosser. I can't say that I feel any sympathy for him.

MedWheeler
July 13, 2008, 11:14 AM
Eric F wrote:
>>>I dont know or remember everything but I made the sale right there infront of every one and the Atf guy said "gotch ya!" and I got a sinking feeling then he said just kidding and I left with cash in my hand.<<<

I think I would have come close to whizzing right there...!

jaholder1971
July 13, 2008, 11:34 AM
In many instances, if you are arrested for a crime, one of the conditions of the bail/bond is that you remove all weapons from your possession. That restriction is in effect until the outcome of the case.

Sometimes the disposition of the firearms is up to you, or up to the courts.

MGshaggy
July 13, 2008, 12:25 PM
Depends on the crime and the state. My FFL is currently in custody of a very large collection for an owner who got a felony conviction (unrelated to any of the guns or drugs). BATFE and local LE worked with him to gain custody of well over 1000 guns, including a number of silencers and transferable and dealer sample machineguns. Although the true owner can no longer legally possess any guns, he can direct the sales (through the FFL) and keep the proceeds.

Heck, I got a nice deal on a couple silencers...:D

Acera
July 13, 2008, 12:43 PM
A buddy is on probation for a class 2 misdemeanor, and his parole officer states he cannon have any firearm, or consume alcohol during the probation! He is a LEO and will be returning to work when the probation is over, all this for a non firearm, non violence or alcohol related off the job incident.

Just Jim
July 13, 2008, 12:47 PM
I believe in my state for conviction of a game crime they are allowed to take your gun and your vehicle in a poaching incident.

jj

Z71
July 13, 2008, 01:08 PM
In one case that I know of, the felons guns went to his family to prevent the confiscation of the guns.

This is in Oklahoma, and I really don't know what the "proper" procedure is.

X-Rap
July 13, 2008, 01:28 PM
Darner had a lot of folks bamboozaled. Remember when he was doing magazine adds for Rem. or Ruger back in the 80's? He was kneeling in front of an old barn wall with all his big deer racks and selling the co.
I also remember his heads being featured at Safari Club banquet in Glenwood Springs in the early 80's.
I think he also had a part in something called Hunter Information Services based in Montrose Co.
Think he also worked for the CDOW in the 70's but I might be wrong.
Good for him to loose his A$$, NM has some pretty harsh game laws regarding forfiture and Co. is getting with that program too. Sad thing is some average joes are getting caught in the same net as some of these high profile crooks and paying big for it.
I would not call him a "renowned profesional hunter" by any stretch, infamous criminal poacher would be better.Plus one with some brass balls, showing those heads and acting like he was Mr. fair chase and Johnny by the book.

Furncliff
July 13, 2008, 01:35 PM
http://www.buckhuntersblog.com/deer-hunting-news/kirt-darner-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-legendary-mule-deer-hunter

KiltedClaymore
July 13, 2008, 01:40 PM
yea for probation, standard terms(means everybody, no matter what you did) states that "while on probation, the probate shall not be in possesion of a deadly, dangerous, or any other weapon or item." includes tear gas, pepper spray, and knives.

scythefwd
July 13, 2008, 01:53 PM
My grandfather was allowed to gift his guns to his family, but he didn't loose them due to crime. He lost his foid due to a temporary bout of dementia in a nursing home after a stroke (he's fine, if not just a bit more frail than before). Every month, we take him to shoot at the range :) This Easter he even called to ask about his .22 :) My family couldn't separate him from his arms when he probably had one every day since he was 12. That'd be like cutting off his hand.

scythefwd
July 13, 2008, 01:56 PM
In VA, if you are caught using an illegal arm to hunt with (in my county, any rifle, shotgun bigger than 10ga, other counties, rifles equal to or smaller than .22 ), you lose it. I beleive that they can take the gun you shoot if you take something out of season or the wrong sex (antlerless on an antlered day).

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