Looks Like Another Failure in Safe Gun Handling


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yesit'sloaded
July 13, 2008, 09:42 PM
People should be more careful.

http://www.kcra.com/news/16871050/detail.html

MODESTO, Calif. -- One man is dead after being hit by a shotgun blast during a tournament at a skeet shooting range, police said Sunday.

William Herrman, 70, was shot at about 9:30 a.m. at The Old Fisherman Club on the 10000 block of Maze Boulevard outside of Modesto.

Authorities said the firearm, belonging to one of the men in the group, accidentally discharged and struck the Herrman.

"I've been here almost five years and nothing like this has ever happened," said caretaker Mitch Boyle. "It made my stomach turn."

Herrman was transported to an area hospital where he died.

Skeet shooting has been going on at The Old Fisherman Club since the 1950s, officials said.

Police are currently investigating how the fatal shot was fired.

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Solo Flyer
July 13, 2008, 10:09 PM
Accidentally almost certainly should read negligently.
AD are rare to non-existent.ND are all too common.

jrhines
July 13, 2008, 10:28 PM
I was once on the board of the National Capital Skeet & Trap club, just North of Washington, D.C. I seem to remember some discussion of the total lack of fatalities at skeet ranges. Anyone know of any other accidental fatalities at these skeet & trap ranges?
Damn shame, and something that can be easily avoided. My sons pulled trap at the club and everyone was very conscious of muzzles and loaded guns. Had the rare shooter who wanted to carry a loaded gun between stations, politely but firmly escorted off the range.
My thoughts to this guys family & friends.

RPCVYemen
July 14, 2008, 07:14 PM
If the name is spelled correctly (with 2 n's), you'll get a number of hits:

http://www.modbee.com/1623/story/359022.html


A 71-year-old man died Sunday morning at the Old Fisherman's Club of Modesto when a member of his skeet shooting group accidentally shot him in the head, authorities reported.

The man has been identified by the Stanislaus County coronerís office as William Herrmann of Modesto. He was pronounced dead just after 11 a.m. Sunday.

The club, at 10800 Maze Blvd., is about nine miles west of Modesto on the San Joaquin River.

A group of club members had gone out for skeet shooting, said Lt. Mario Cisneros of the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department. It was about 9:30 a.m.

"A few of them were near their vehicles," he said. "One of the gentlemen accidentally touched his trigger and discharged his weapon."

The shooter's gun happened to be pointing toward people a few feet away, Cisneros said. He hit Herrmann in the head.

The victim was taken to a hospital by helicopter, Cisneros said.

No information was available about the shooter, Cisneros said, and no one will be arrested.

"This was truly an accident," he added.

Phil Brugger of Modesto, a past president of the Old Fisherman's Club, said he had heard of no other injuries or deaths at the club since it was established in 1920. Brugger is on the club's board of directors.

Brugger said he did not know Herrmann, who was not a club member. The shooter was a club member, he said. His name has not been released.

"I know him to be a very capable gentleman," Brugger said. "I'm sure the man is absolutely devastated."

The shooter has managed and run the club's skeet range for years, Brugger said.

The only place weapons are allowed at the club are at its trap and skeet ranges, he said. Hunting and other target practice are not allowed at the club. Shotguns are the only weapons allowed on its grounds.

The organization promotes sportsmanship, preservation of the environment and social activities for its nearly 800 members, all of whom are men, Brugger said.

"It's extremely sad when we lose someone. It's horrible," he said. "I'm still in a state of shock."


http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=44711&provider=top

MODESTO, CA - A Modesto man was shot and killed Sunday in what investigators called a tragic accident at a Modesto trap shooting range, a Stanislaus County sheriff's spokesman said.

William Herrmann of Modesto was with a group of about 10 men preparing to do some trap shooting at the Old Fisherman's Club on Maze Avenue around 9:30 a.m., Stanislaus County sheriff's Deputy Tom Letras said.

Witnesses said while the men were unloading their guns in the parking lot, an acquaintance of Herrmann's took out his shotgun and the weapon accidently went off, striking Herrmann in the back of the head.

Herrmann, 71, was airlifted to Doctors Medical Center in Modesto where he was pronounced dead a short time later.

Letras said investigators the shooting appeared to be a tragic accident. Investigators found no evidence of foul play in the shooting and no arrests were made.

After the investigation, Letras said the results would be forwarded to the Stanislaus County District Attorney's office to determine whether any charges would be filed in the case.


The first implies that a fingher was in the trigger gaurd while the gun was pointed at a human being.

Mike

SCKimberFan
July 14, 2008, 07:50 PM
"...accidentally touched his trigger and discharged his weapon." This is not an accident, it is negligence.

How many of the 4 rules of proper gun handling did he break? All of them.

DoubleTapDrew
July 14, 2008, 08:12 PM
I don't think the media has caught on to the whole accident vs. negligent thing. They probably see it as accidental vs intentional.
Tragic nonetheless, I'm sure the guy and the family of Hermann feels horrible.

RPCVYemen
July 14, 2008, 08:38 PM
How many of the 4 rules of proper gun handling did he break? All of them.

Yeah, I don't quite get the "unloading in the parking lot" part. I have shot skeet exactly once in my life, so I am no expert. But where I shot, I think I remember the sequence as:


Stepped up to the stations with the shotgun unloaded, action open.
Inserted two rounds.
Shot two rounds.
Stepped back.


It's not like you had 15 rounds in a magazine and might have only shot 12 or something.

Maybe trap is different. But the time I shot skeet, the gun never had a single round in it, unless you were standing in the station, ready to shoot.

Maybe trap is different.

Mike

Raystonn
July 14, 2008, 09:10 PM
Shotguns are the only weapons allowed on its grounds
Does this mean they'd deny entrance to someone who was CCWing?

-Raystonn

CountGlockula
July 14, 2008, 09:12 PM
Very tragic.

arflattop
July 14, 2008, 10:20 PM
RPCVY, you are correct. You never step off the pad in skeet or trap with a loaded weapon. I cannot understand what was happening at this club that precipitated this tragedy. I cannot understand negligence re: firearms. They are just too dangerous to ever let your guard down......

Freedomv
July 14, 2008, 11:33 PM
I believe that the statement about unloading their guns in the parking lot meant that they were taking them out of their cars before the shooting was to begin.

Vern

RPCVYemen
July 14, 2008, 11:48 PM
I believe that the statement about unloading their guns in the parking lot meant that they were taking them out of their cars before the shooting was to begin.

I agree, but that would mean that they were transporting them loaded, which seems odd for a trap gun. Maybe I am wrong, but most of the guys I saw shooting skeet that day weren't shooing beaters they kept around the house for SD. I guess you could, but I think of SD shotguns has having shorter stocks and barrels that skeet (and maybe trap guns).

If they weren't SD shotguns, why would anyone transport a loaded one to a place where it has to be unloaded?

Carrying a loaded pistol in your vehicle makes sense. But a loaded skeet/trap shotgun?

That's part of what I can't see. Maybe more will come out as time goes by.

Mike

Freedomv
July 15, 2008, 01:03 AM
We are doing quite a bit of assuming since the type of shotgun is not identified.
The man may have been showing someone his new hunting shotgun or showing some one his buddies gun that he's friend wanted to sell, etc. Maybe his grandkids or someone played with his shotgun and left it loaded?? One one knows for certain.

What ever happened surely could have been prevented with proper handling proceedures. Very sad that someone dies because of carelessness.

A school mates Dad almost blew his arm off at the shoulder because he pulled a shotgun out of a car by the barrel. One second of carelessness is all it takes. He, too, did not think the gun was loaded.

I feel very sorry for those involved and their famillies.

Vern

RPCVYemen
July 15, 2008, 10:21 AM
The man may have been showing someone his new hunting shotgun or showing some one his buddies gun that he's friend wanted to sell, etc.

Yeah, but I can't figure why the gun would have even been loaded. Here are my assumptions:


Everytime you shoot in skeet (I don't know about trap), you empty the weapon. Step on pad, put two shells in, shoot twice, step off the pad. What I mean here is that it's not like one of the pistol sports where you start with a full magazine, and may or may empty the magazine during the course of fire. Every time I stepped off the pad, I had shot every shell in the shotgun.

I can see transporting a loaded weapon, if one of its uses is self defense. But the skeet/trap guns I have seen - especially the ones old guys shoot :) - were very different from SD shotguns. While every weapon could be used for self defense, the SD shotguns I have seen tended to have short barrels and stocks - they were "handy". The skeet/trap guns I have seen tended to be pretty long for self defense - and usually too pretty. :)


I can't quite understand how/why the shotgun was loaded. I can imagine the mechanics of screwing up when you are handling a Glock that you CCW - it would almost always be loaded, and you'd unload it for a specific reason. A skeet/trap shotgun seems to me to be the opposite - it would almost always be unloaded, and you would load it for a specific reason.

The time I went skeet shooting the mechanics of the sport itself - largely that you emptied the weapon every time you shot - seemed to reinforce safe gun handling.

Mike

FCFC
July 15, 2008, 11:00 AM
Is the shooter who blew the guy's head off going to get charged with a crime?

I fervently hope so.

yesit'sloaded
July 15, 2008, 12:43 PM
Not to mention the fact that most people at the local skeet/trap clubs in my area almost always have their guns broken down into two pieces in the case. Most of them won't even fit in the case assembled.

texas bulldog
July 15, 2008, 02:08 PM
the first article posted by RPCVYemen says the shooter had managed the club for years. when the guy who's supposed to be in charge is negligently shooting people in the parking lot, i can say without a doubt that this is a club i would want nothing to do with. talk about complacency!

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