[one-shot-one]

This thread is in response to Art’s suggestion on the illegal poaching post that comments about “the poor mans food for the table”. Seems many are willing to allow the “poor man” to skirt the law to provide food for his family.
Last time I was in the store you could get 3 cans of pork & beans for $1.00 and most center fire rifle ammo was $20+ a box. Most used serviceable rifles will bring at least $150. So where do you draw the line? I agree that the guy hunting for sustenance should not be punished the same as the “wanton” poach for fun persons but I still think it is an unnecessary infraction if you really think it though.
Yeah, I know you can kill 20 deer with a box of shells, but you can buy 60 cans of beans and use the extra time you save to find a better way. The beans may not taste as good as venison but you won’t have to worry about losing your gun to the warden either!
That is my $0.02, what’s yours?:confused:

[Grumulkin]

Poaching is pretty much like shoplifting.

[xd45gaper]

well depends on how, what and where said poor person is poaching. if he is on someone else's land he should be punished, on public land he should be punished.

now if he had his own land and was killing deer or what ever for meat on the table i dont see anything wrong with it.

and besides there is always a surplus of squrriels and rabbits!

[MCgunner]

There's always fishing, which is year around down here. Lots of po folks I've met at the bay with a hook in the water. No shame in eating fish for protein and it requires less hassle around here. Lots of places to fish, no public hunting, have to trespass. Not a good option considering what happens if you get caught.

A simple fishing license is not expensive. A cheap rod, some hooks and sinkers, and a cast net to catch bait, and you're set up. It's sorta like reloading, the hardware will set you back, but the rewards pay off quite soon. Besides, all this hardware is often available in garage sales around town here. We're a bayside community.

Small game, yard greens, fish, there's lots of options if you have time on your hands. What's that sayin' about giving a man a fish and teaching a man to fish? :D Hunting is EXPENSIVE in Texas, fishing's cheap! Don't forget crabs and oysters in season, too, all available within a few hundred yards of my front door. Have a boat, but it takes gas. I'm gettin' me a kayak soon. :D I ain't that poor, but hey, gas is expensive. I have a place to hunt legally, too, and hogs are always in season. Hard to consider myself destitute when I have land and pay property taxes. But, I've met many folks that were much less fortunate than I that fished for their food, just sayin'.

[one-shot-one]

maybe i'm looking at this thru a texas boy's eyes, but even in the poor parts of say west virgina, if you own enough land to hunt on, can you really be considered so poor that you cannot follow the game laws? just asking & yes i can see where MAYBE in SOME situations that property rights could superceed game laws.....but????

[HunterGirl]

Don't forget to look at time involved also. Ramen noodles are cheaper and less time consuming than going out and illegally harvesting an animal. And what if you have bad luck and don't see anything to shoot? When I can almost guarantee that the grocery store will have the econo packs of ramen.

Yes - I've been poor enough that when I was little, all we could afford were the cheap hot dogs and cans of beans. For years. I won't eat another cheap hotdog again because of that. So I'm well aware of how hard things can be.

[joop]

I don't think anyone in the US has a valid justification to poach for survival. As others have already mentioned, canned/dried food is cheaper to obtain and store.

[paintballdude902]

how much is a pound of hamburger or
a chicken

alot more than 1.50 for a bullet that brings home 100lbs of meat

there was a man where my father grew up in the 50s in california he was a mexican man who was born here. his wife died in labor with their last kid so he had 3 kids and was alone to provide for them

he helped manage the merisue vineyard near san jose and he worked as much as he could to provide for his kids but the job just wasnt enough so he took deer all year in the vineyard using a .22lr

he took 1 deer a week to keep meat in his kids bellys

i dont see anything wrong with this, he wasnt the land owner and wasnt eligable to get a permit out of season for the deer eating the grapes so my dads friend pete never said anything and when he could he would help him out by bringing him a deer he had shot legally or a few ducks

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

there was a man where my father grew up in the 50s in california

Well, there's the key right there. Look at the bolded part. At some point in the last 50 years, the balance of the scale tipped when mass quantities of food became dirt cheap due our super-prosperous economy coupled with high-volume, big-corporation farming techniques (and scientific & mechanical agricultural advances). What was once justified today is not, seems to me.

Don't forget to look at time involved also. Ramen noodles are cheaper and less time consuming than going out and illegally harvesting an animal. And what if you have bad luck and don't see anything to shoot? When I can almost guarantee that the grocery store will have the econo packs of ramen.

Yep. +1. :)

Now, as for whether the Wildlife Departments should allow the seasons should be longer and the season limit higher in places where the deer are overrunning everyone, *such as* West Virginia and the Hill Country of Texas? That's a different story. Darn right they should. But we all need to follow the law, or face the punishment, until such time as the Wildlife Dept. sees the light. The punishment for poaching in these areas should be extremely small, to coincide with the "harm" caused.

[Harvster]

Generally there are very few poor people in this country. And there are often assistance programs to feed those who truly are. There are folks in Africa and Asia that would come here and swear some of these poor poachers must be very well off indeed to own such things as a house and a gun.

[brighamr]

Apparently everyone in America is extremely well off if they own a gun and can feed their entire family on beans...


When did poaching become poaching? Wasn't robin hood about killing one of the "king's deer"? Well that about summarizes my take on this entire subject.

I agree, some regulation is good to keep smaller herds alive and well. However in some parts of the country, deer are more rampant that field mice. This is one reason state's should decide, and not federal, on limits, seasons, etc.

Honestly, if you lost your job, don't own a house, have a 22lr and 4 kids... would you pass by a deer and feed your kids Ramen for the 8th week in a row?

/out

[waverace]

You know recent crime statistics state that shoplifting for food is on the increase , there are a lot of poor people out there .
Have to agree though there are better and cheaper ways to get food .
Interesting about shooting on your own land though , fishing in your own pond you dont need a licence , why should you need a hunting licence ?

[dagger dog]

Poaching in my neck of the woods is usually done in the middle of the night by spotlight and is not considered fair chase or hunting.Tresspassing on private property usually goes along with the poaching.

Feeding your family with game taken illegally is not the way to go. There are plenty of hunter programs that donate venison, turkey, even clean road kill deer that have been dispatched by conservation officers.
There are too many of these programs in effect throughout the states that no one needs to Poach!

[Eric-WA]

Not to mention the obvious food stamp system. I saw a review out in the last few months that said up to 40 percent of the people in West Virginia recieved some money in food stamps, and that the applications for the program were up 100% in the last few years.

While I don't agree with all game laws, they are laws passed lawfully and don't infringe on our constitutional rights. So being that there are plenty of programs i.e. food stamps, unemployment etc that you can take advantage of, and if you're in a real need feel no shame in it, then I see no reason for poaching.

[joop]

Indeed, there are too many programs available (as Eric-WA mentioned) for people in need that stealing and poaching is not justified. You don't deserve a deer just because you've been eating ramen for eight weeks and you happen to have a gun on hand. I also want to bring up food kitchens for the truly down and out, since you don't even have to pay or register for those. They are abundant where I live (Seattle).

Frankly, anyone who claims that there could be a situation in the US where stealing/poaching for food is justified is not trying very hard to live as a good citizen and neighbor. We all have to play by the rules.

[Cougfan2]

Not to make light of a serious issue, but this made me think about the old joke of the Minnesota DFW ranger and the hunter with the Loons.

A Minn. DFW ranger is driving down a back road and sees a guy walking out of a wetland with two dead Loons. He pulls up and the guy obviously knows he's caught. The ranger says "OK, what do you think you're doing?". The guy then goes into this sad story about how he'd been laid off for a year and his family was starving so he was desperate. After hearing his story the ranger told him "Listen, while I feel sorry for you, I can't just let you go. I'm going to have to cite you, but I will go the judge and ask him to go easy on you because of your situation.". The poacher says he appreciates that. The ranger then says "You know, I've always wondered what loon would taste like?".

The poacher thinks for a moment and says "It's kind of a cross between a Bald Eagle and a Spotted Owl.". :neener::D

[EricTheBarbarian]

Well, Id like to see free hunting and fishing licenses handed out to those poor enough for them, instead of all the welfare and food stamps etc. Of course, that'd never happen. Allowing people to provide for themselves isn't really a goal in our current political situation, but being dependent on the state is.

[buck460XVR]

Poaching isn't just about the shooting of animals...it's also about breaking the law. Again, in the extreme case of survival, no one here is gonna dish anyone for taking an animal out of season.....but like I and others have said before, this generally is not the case. Myths like Robin Hood and what happened 50 years ago are no longer viable excuses in todays world....and states do make hunting regs and bag limits on all game but Migratory Birds. Iffin you want venison here in my state there are limitless antlerless tags available....and if you don't hunt, you can be put on a list to be called when the wardens take game from a poacher....or when there is a roadkill in your area. The local food pantry gets deer and the state pays for processing. This is all for free....the fine for shooting a deer outta season is $1800. Don't make much sense for the poor to poach.

But the majority of poaching is not done by the poor to feed their family....it is done by jerks that just like to kill, or by those that cannot take an animal or trophy by legal means, so they feel the need to take them at night or outta season. It is done by those that are greedy and selfish and as I have said before, most of these jerks tend to break more than just game laws......in their eyes they are above the law. Many get more thrill outta shooting something illegal than taking an animal legally. Look at Africa.......most of the poaching there is done by the greedy for ivory, or hides or head mounts....very little if any is done by the poor for food. Same here in the states....many trophy animals never make it to opening day......Those that feel the need to impress others take them illegally before season. In my state every year there is at least one guide trying to impress clients, that gets caught taking a trophy outta season. A few years back a guide/spokesman for Miller High Life"s "friends of the field" was nailed for taking a huge buck with a handgun during the bow season and trying to register it as a bow kill. It had nuttin' to do about hunger....only greed and maybe a little more Speaking fees.

Those of you that think poaching is done by those in need, outta desperation, do not have a clue.

[EricTheBarbarian]

Those of you that think poaching is done by those in need, outta desperation, do not have a clue.

I realize that most poaching is done by A holes, I remember last yr in deer season seeing a buck with his head cut off on the public hunting land I was on. All the meat left to waste, for no reason, just so he could have antlers on the wall. I have no problem with punishing poachers harshly, but I have a feeling the vast majority get away with it.



However, if you are in need, why shouldn't hunting be an option available to you, instead of risking having the hammer brought down by the game warden? I would think to try to survive on hunting you'd have to hunt other things than bank all your food on one weekend of deer gun season (like in Ohio). Hunting can be done even without a gun in some fairly urban areas,lol. Anyone more interested in that can look at my old urban hunting thread from a few years back.

Most of the people the most offended by the poachers seem to be mad about trophy animals being taken illegally. Hunting
coons, squirrels, groundhog, rabbit, etc probably doesn't get too many people riled up. Provides better opportunities(longer seasons, less competition, easier to bag, etc) for living on. I would consider poaching illegally for trophies to be the most detestable form of poaching. Theres no reason for it, just someone not wanting to play by the rules and cheat.I still don't really understand not hunting for meat, although I don't have a problem with it if done legally. I consider eating what you kill just as much of the hunt as going out to the woods.

Give a man some meat, he eats for a day, teach a man to hunt, the game warden confiscates his truck, gun, and issues a hefty fine and/or throws him in jail:D

[achildofthesky]

Poaching by po' folk as in the defination of the OP to me isn't a big deal to me especially on ones own land. A lot of good comments about a few of the available social support systems here but one that doesn't wash well with me is the strictly legal aspect. We have a lot worse problems that are generally ignored in a lot of places. Illegal immigration, druggies, white collar crime, drunk drivers and the list goes on. Yep, arrests are made sometimes for crimes against society, but not nearly enough. To criminalize somebody that is on hard times for doing, take away a hundred years or so, was completely natural, ain't right... I'd be willing to bet that most here do not REALLY know what it is like to live in abject poverty with very limited prospects. I was fortunate to have grown up in a family that was generally in decent shape, however I have experienced true hunger and would not for a minute hesitate to harvest an animal for subsistance.

Be safe

Patty

[Art Eatman]

My take is that in today's U.S. of A., there's no real justification for hunting as survival. And we're generally okay with illegal hunting, from what folks have posted, if actual survival is the issue.

Back in the 1930s there were very few public-assistance programs available for the destitute, beyond local charity. That's not at all true, today.

Now, if I'm a judge and some poacher gets brought in and it's obvious that he can barely sign his name if you spotted him the "X", I probably wouldn't be as hard on him as I would somebody who obviously should have known better. But Mr. Ignorant would get a serious short-course about available public assistance, and some supervision while he signs up for it.

[MCgunner]

Poaching by po' folk as in the defination of the OP to me isn't a big deal to me especially on ones own land.

If you have enough land to HUNT on, how can you be destitute? Do you know what I pay in annual property taxes on my piddlin' little piece of paradise? If I was destitute, penniless, I wouldn't have that property very long, I can tell ya that!

I don't see any excuse for poaching, personally. There are legal animals around here, squirrel, rabbit, and hog can be hunted year round. But, beyond that, it's cheaper to fish, the bay is just right there, nobody owns the bay, and walmart is just down the street and they have canned goods that ain't made in China. I like the Bush's beans. :D

I can walk down to the bay right now and catch SOMETHING edible. We have lots of "sport fishermen" around here that cuss the lowly hardhead catfish (Arius felis), but it's edible, I've eaten 'em, and they're abundant in the warm months if you can't catch anything else. They'll hit about any bait, dead shrimp being the gold standard around here and I can't imagine a trip to the bay without having to mess with the danged things, LOL. If I was after protein only, I'd eat 'em along with a lot of other stuff I toss back. They really don't taste any different from any other fish and aren't full of bones, no reason not to eat 'em except that getting one big enough to have much on 'em can be a problem, but they do get big. There's brothers, the gafftop sail catfish, get really big, are fighters, and people actually will fish for 'em. I keep 'em. They're slimey as hell, but don't bother me. I clean 'em and eat 'em and this time of year, they're plentiful. But, hardheads are EVERYwhere. You need to look for gafftops and it helps to have a boat. A poor man ain't gonna be able to afford the gas for a boat. Maybe he might be able to come up with a kayak. Anyway, where there's a will, there's a way if you're hungry. But, there's no reason to poach.