Who makes a good 14" shotgun


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45R
December 25, 2002, 07:57 PM
Who makes a good 14" shotgun other then Scattergun Technologies.

Primary use of this shotgun would be for home defense, and maybe a trip or two at the range.

Bottom line is that this shotgun has to be reliable and not picky about ammo choice.

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JeFF D
December 25, 2002, 08:12 PM
Jealous....grrrr
;)
You must be from Canada. Or are you registering it as AOW.
I cant tell by your location dont know if you mean Peoples Republik of Kanada or **********

You could always just have it shortened by a smith.

45R
December 25, 2002, 08:23 PM
Is there a set law on how long my shotgun has to be in CA?

I am new to rifles and shotguns.

Wildalaska
December 25, 2002, 08:23 PM
Theres no real magic in building one of those, your best bet is to find a local Class 2 manufacturer near you and have him do it as to your specs.

Two important points..

Build it off of the Rem 870.....

Use a Vang Comp Barrel....

If you use the Vang Comp, you should buy the barrel direct from Vang Comp as they are better quality than converting an exisiting barrel.

I would avoid, like the plauge, NFA Mossbergs, or Benelli entry guns....

How about a nice 14 inch 457 mag lever action rifle...:)? I shot one yesterday.....

Drjones
December 25, 2002, 08:44 PM
Uh dude...I hate to break it to ya, but the bbl has to be 18" min. for CA-legal.

Unless you are LEO of course...:rolleyes:

Powderman
December 25, 2002, 09:05 PM
It has to be 18" in barrel length, PERIOD, anywhere in the United States, unless you are willing to go through the NFA paperwork.

Anything other than that is a violation of federal law, subjecting you to heavy fines, arrest, and imprisonment.

If you really, really didn't know this, then no harm, no foul.

If you did, be advised--no one here is going to give you any advice on how to break the law. Really bad try.

If you happen to work for an organization whose name starts with the letters A, T, and F---not even a good try, fella. Get inventive at least, would ya?

Drjones
December 25, 2002, 09:13 PM
Powderman: Chill out dude! He's one of us!!! Look at his sig!!!

:cool:

45R
December 25, 2002, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Powderman
It has to be 18" in barrel length, PERIOD, anywhere in the United States, unless you are willing to go through the NFA paperwork.

Anything other than that is a violation of federal law, subjecting you to heavy fines, arrest, and imprisonment.

If you really, really didn't know this, then no harm, no foul.

If you did, be advised--no one here is going to give you any advice on how to break the law. Really bad try.

If you happen to work for an organization whose name starts with the letters A, T, and F---not even a good try, fella. Get inventive at least, would ya?

Powderman:

First: If you read my profile I dont work for any organization that starts with A and ends with F. My credentials end with D.C. and I work for an organization with the intitals U.C.R. :)

Second: Like I said before I am new to shotguns and rifles so with this interest comes is a quest for knowledge, hence my post. There is no intention to break the law.

Third: After reading something mentioned about NFA paperwork from your post I did some research and found "

NFA weapons are: machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons". Exactly what these weapons are is defined in the law, as well as in court cases
interpreting the law. With out going into to much detail, these are
what the categories encompass:

A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with
a single pull of the trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a
combination of parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for converting a gun into a machine gun.

A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable
firearm, or any part or parts exclusively designed or intended for
such a device (see discussion below).

A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (which is defined as ashoulder fired, smooth bore firearm) with a barrel of less than 18"or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a shotgun falling into the same length parameters."

Forth: Last and foremost thank you for your informative post.

Happy Holidays

Respectfully

45R

Hkmp5sd
December 26, 2002, 01:47 AM
I don't know how NFA stuff is handled in California, but it only costs a $5 transfer tax to buy an AOW. Any receiver that has never been made into a complete shoulder fired shotgun can be made into a shotgun with a barrel <18" or overall length of <26" just by registering it as an AOW. There are a couple of different manufactures than make shotguns in this catagory.

Nosferatu
December 26, 2002, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by Wildalaska

I would avoid, like the plauge, NFA Mossbergs, or Benelli entry guns....


Why?

Wildalaska
December 26, 2002, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by Nosferatu
Why?

IMHO the Mossbergs are far inferior to the Remingtons in terms of quality.

As to the Benelli, I have heard more than one report from Police Agencies that they just are not reliable.

I think that the 870 Remingtons are the most widely used simply because of their excellent desing and inherent reliability.

Dave McCracken
December 26, 2002, 06:42 AM
A coupla things about LEGAL shotguns with 14" bbls. I've shot a few, and am not terribly interested in getting one nor shooting one further.

The blast is a real #$%^&*( with most loads.

Flash is quite impressive, and sometimes one's forward hand gets a bit warm. Low light use is not that good, it's like popping off a +P+ 38 in a snubbie, times 5. You will be night blind after the first shot.

I don't see much handling advantage vs an 18" bbl unless your theater of operation is limited to a bathroom in your house. IOW, under realistic conditions, little gain, some losses.

Since you're new to shotguns, I vehemently urge you to shoot a 14" 870 before plunking down all that money and subjecting thyself to scrutiny by the alphabet cops. A few shots may change your mind.

HTH...

Nosferatu
December 26, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Wildalaska
IMHO the Mossbergs are far inferior to the Remingtons in terms of quality.

Can you give some examples? What about the Mossberg is lowe quality than the Remington?

As to the Benelli, I have heard more than one report from Police Agencies that they just are not reliable.


Have you handled one personally? I don't really care for Benelli's myself, as I believe they are overpriced and over-hyped. I'm just wondering if this is coming from personal experience or "what you heard"?

Wildalaska
December 26, 2002, 02:26 PM
Can you give some examples? What about the Mossberg is lowe quality than the Remington?

The safeties are fragile. The extractors are fragile. The shell stops are fragile. The seem to be more suseptable to dirt and grunge.

We service a lot of shotguns. Remingtons are more robust.Have you handled one personally? I don't really care for Benelli's myself, as I believe they are overpriced and over-hyped. I'm just wondering if this is coming from personal experience or "what you heard"?

Actually the Benelli entry gun I fired worked fine, and was a blast to shoot :)

My comment was based on the fact that they were used and given up by an agency, and evaliated and found wanting by another.

Anthony
December 26, 2002, 03:55 PM
Try Jon Tank in Fremont, Nebraska.

His number is 402-727-1317.

He is a Class III manufacturer and does 14 inch versions of Remington 870s, 1100s, and 11-87s. He has done several guns for me and his work is excellent. He is honest to a fault. If you don't need something he will steer you away from doing it.

Although he has never done a shorty shotgun for me I have discussed it with him at length as I plan on getting once I have bought a house. The procedures sound lengthy, but not impossible.

Much of this depends on your location. I'd suggest calling Jon and getting his opinion on what you need. Then check with a local and reputable Class III dealer about the necessary paper work to see what local law enforcement's attituded is on signing the release papers for it.

- Anthony

Andrew Wyatt
December 26, 2002, 05:53 PM
Mossbergs are fine weapons, once you replace the plastic safety with a metal one. (which is both easy and cheap)


I'd stay away from short barrelled shotguns, because they lose more than they gain.

you'd be well advised to buy one of the big four in a stock 18 inch configuration and shoot it lots, then reevaluate your needs after a case or three of ammo.

Hkmp5sd
December 26, 2002, 11:18 PM
The Remington 1100 SBS/AOW's are great for someone that has a need for a small, easily managed shotgun. For some applications, SBS/AOW's are better than a 18" riot gun.

Nosferatu
December 26, 2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Wildalaska
The safeties are fragile. The extractors are fragile. The shell stops are fragile. The seem to be more suseptable to dirt and grunge.

What models have you handled?

In my experience, the 590A1 has outperformed ANY shotgun on the market. I have put countless rounds through it and have never cleaned it. Not once. I want to make this shotgun fail, but have not. The 870, on the other hand, requires cleaning every 500 or so rounds. It has failed to extract numerous times, and has failed to pull a round out of the mage tube many times.

Both 590's worked flawlessly out of the box. The Remingtons have required replacement of the extractor and merciless cleaning to keep functioning.

870's might have been the best shotgun in the past, but the tides are changing.

Wildalaska
December 27, 2002, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Nosferatu
What models have you handled?



I can honestly say that the only Mossberg I have ever had myself was a 500 and it was OK...but it never got abused....

Im basing my opinion on the fact that I see, on a monthly basis, three to four times as many Mossbergs come in for repair as Remington 870s....I dont think that Mossberg sells that many more shotguns up here than Remington....

Note also that Remington is the shotgun of choice for most LEAs...

Nosferatu
December 27, 2002, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Wildalaska
I can honestly say that the only Mossberg I have ever had myself was a 500 and it was OK...but it never got abused....

Yeah, I know the 500 has had it's problems. It's a lower end shotgun that I believe they just produce to make their 590's look better. I have never really put a 500 through it's paces, but I haven't really had a desire to do so.

Note also that Remington is the shotgun of choice for most LEAs...

That has more to do with pricing than anything else. Mossberg just hasn't been able to compete with Remington when going after large law enforcement contracts, etc. The Mossberg was the favorite of the Marines :) (Although that seems to be going towards Benelli now :( )

I'm not saying all 870's suck, I'm not even saying the suck at all. I would rather have an 870 over a Mossy 500 or other lower-end shotgun. But comparing those is like BMW vs. Hyundai. They aren't meant to compete.

The departments I have dealt with, mostly in the Phoenix area, all issue the Rem 870 in their patrol cars. The guys such as SWAT and SAU, who are pretty much allowed to pick their own gear, all go for the 590A1. Some 14" and some 20".

I just think the 870's glory days are starting to drizzle down a bit. I believe Mossberg is cranking out the better of the top of the line pump guns these days.

I have been shopping for a 14" gun and have decided on a Mossy 590A1, Rem 11-87 or Benelli S90. I am leaning torwards the Benelli since it's the only one I have had a chance to fire yet. I don't own a semi-auto shotgun yet either, so it would fill that gap as well. Plus, we would need a light/sling mount for it! :)

If I'm correct, the 870 and 11-87 share the same barrel & mag tube diameters and the same gap between the barrel/mag tube? Can anyone verify this?

454c
December 27, 2002, 12:41 AM
I can't say good or bad about the Rem. since I've never owned one,but I've yet to have a problem with the 3 Mossberg 500s I own.I know a guy who treats his guns like crap and his Mossy is still shootin'.I've talked to people who has seen that gun go under water several times,fall out of trucks,slide down hills,etc.and still shoots everything from high brass to crappy reloads.It looks terrible nowadays but it's still shootin'.

Dave McCracken
December 27, 2002, 05:15 AM
Nos, Mossies are cheaper than 870s to large depts.They get 870s instead. Most of the "Serious" types I've known use the 870, and I've known plenty. The 870 just keeps going and going, like that little pink drumbeatin' bunny.

You say the 870 requires cleaning every 500 rounds. My experience differs, but assuming you're correct...

So?

Any weapon requires periodic maintenance. My oldest 870 is currently my HD tool. After more than 50 years of use and perhaps as much as 10K rounds, it's as reliable as sunrise.Zero glitches.

As for the Mossies, they're good shotguns. They won't last as long under hard use as the 870 will, but they'll outlast all but the most longlived, heavily shooting owners.

Correia
December 27, 2002, 02:46 PM
I don't think an 870 needs cleaning every 500 rounds unless you are shooting homemade blackpowder shells through it. :)

Mine gets cleaned periodically because I like to take care of my guns.

I posted a story on TFL once about my Dad's 870 Wingmaster. Purchased when they first came out, used for every hunting season from the 1960s to the present. Rode daily in his pickup. Shot inumerable times. Detail cleaned once. Last Thanksgiving by me.

It never ceased working. I cleaned out about a pound of black gunk. His maintenece consisted of spraying the gun down with WD40 about once every couple of months.

I have seen some problems with new production 870s, they do seem to be much rougher now in the action, and I have also seen problems with the safties and with the extractors. But current Remington quality control aside the 870 design is amazing.

ruger357
December 27, 2002, 08:51 PM
I liked my 500, but I love my 870.:D

WonderNine
December 27, 2002, 10:02 PM
I was always under the impression that the minimum legal barrel length was 16" not 18".

Hkmp5sd
December 27, 2002, 10:29 PM
18" Shotgun.
16" Rifle.
26" overall for both.

cratz2
December 29, 2002, 11:48 PM
http://serbu.com/shorty.htm

BKP99
January 1, 2003, 10:15 PM
To answer this question for forum members in Canada...

Consider the Norinco copy of Remington 870 HD with 14" barrel.
Trigger is very heavy but that could be OK for a defence shotgun.

Only costs about $450 Canadian.

Kahr carrier
January 6, 2003, 07:23 AM
870!!:)

Vern
January 6, 2003, 11:40 AM
Nosferatu - the gap between the barrel and mag tube is the same on 1187's and 870's IF the 870 is a D serial #. They recently changed it. If you have an older 870, the gap is a little bigger.

I didn't know any of SAU was using 590A1's. I thought all of the shotguns were 870's.

All of the 870's we use at the academy get minimal cleaning. I've seen them get a little "sticky", but it's nothing a little oil doesn't cure. I've never seen one fail. And they get a lot of use.

I like my 870 and I have little experience with the 590A1. Is there anything about it's design that differs drastically from the 870 in either fit or function that makes it a "better" shotgun?

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