Need Info on .35 Whelen for Deer


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Rebailey
July 15, 2008, 09:30 PM
I am thinking of getting a .35 Whelen for deer. What bullet would be the best: 180, 200, 225, 250? What are your experiences with this caliber?

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JShirley
July 18, 2008, 02:09 AM
Sorry you haven't had any responses yet.

I've taken one deer so far with a .35 Whelen Remington 700. I have two more .35s now, a custom bolt and a Rem 7600, I just haven't had the time to hunt with them.

I would suggest a 200 or 225 for deer. I believe I was using a 225 for the doe I hit. She took two steps and fell. In GA, you can hunt hogs during deer season, and I would want to have a bullet I thought was capable for that. My friend Byron Quick put a .35 into the shoulder of a decent hog, who promptly turned around, at which time Byron put another into his other shoulder! (Byron's not a big fan of Remington Corelokts, and has since gone to other bullets for his Whelen.)

You don't need a 250 unless you're hunting extremely heavy animals, and 180 IMO is too light*. 200 and 225 are easiest to find, anyway. :) Depending on the size deer where you hunt, you may want a sturdy bullet, like a Failsafe or X.

I would like to get some 180-grain .357 XTPs, loaded to about 2000 fps, for short-range .35 Whelen loads. The handloads of Matt G's I fired were quite accurate, considering I was firing from kneeling and using iron sights.

Member John Dyer has some elusive Remington 700s in .35 Whelen (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4430180#post4430180). John has great prices, and in fact, I bought my 7600 from him.

The .35 Whelen has been described as a "brush cartridge", but in fact, is an extremely versatile cartridge that can take almost any large game in the world, in a standard length action and without punishing recoil. It is similar to the 9.3x62mm, which by some estimates took more African game than any other caliber. Like the .270 and .25-06, it is a .30-06 necked to a different caliber.

Hope this helps,

John

*At high velocity. I also wouldn't use a 150 grain .300 Winchester Magnum on deer, either, unless it were a very sturdy bullet like an X bullet.

mbt2001
July 18, 2008, 11:55 AM
The .35 Whelen has been described as a "brush cartridge", but in fact, is an extremely versatile cartridge that can take almost any large game in the world, in a standard length action and without punishing recoil. It is similar to the 9.3x62mm, which by some estimates took more African game than any other caliber.

+1

I disagree that the 180 grain would be to light for avg. sized white tail. For hogs, I think that the 225 grain would be excellent. The .35 has no "varmint" cross over potential, it was invented as a big game round, unlike say the .243.

My experience with the .35 is woefully limited to one outing. All North American game (moose and griz included) and most African species should fall to this round.

JShirley
July 18, 2008, 11:12 PM
Well, you could be right. I was basing that statement on what I've seen when other very light for caliber/power bullets were used, like that .300/150 I mentioned. At close range, I'd be concerned that a 180 .35 Whelen would be explosive.

J

critter
July 19, 2008, 03:31 PM
I have 2 guns in that caliber, both on M98 actions. I find them to be 'thumpers' on deer (which is the only game I have taken with them).

I use 200's in one and 225's in the other-for no other reason than that is the bullets each prefer for accuracy. Either will kill a deer DRT if well placed.

I would probably investigate the heavier bullets more if I were to hunt heavy game such as moose or elk or perhaps bear.

Shawnee
July 19, 2008, 05:36 PM
Hi Rebailey...

You might be interested in these links.....


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=105007015

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=104838365


:cool:

TehK1w1
July 19, 2008, 07:07 PM
I would think that a 225gr would work perfectly well. It's probably the easiest to find, so why not try it first? I use Federal's 225gr load in mine. (although the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is really a bit much for a deer)

VegasOPM
July 19, 2008, 07:47 PM
I think that whatever you come up with should cleanly take any deer that you could find...

Old Grump
July 19, 2008, 10:07 PM
That being said I would try all of them and pick the most accurate regardless of bullet weight and practice with it. That is your round for that gun.

Shawnee
July 19, 2008, 10:14 PM
+1 for what "Old Grump" said. Any of the .35 Whelen bullet weights will get the job done on Whitetails and Mulies. Go for the one that is most accurate in your rifle.

:cool:

JShirley
July 20, 2008, 01:21 PM
Well, that's the thing. My buddy and fellow staff member Byron Q. hit a deer with a .300 WM 150 grain. Its shoulder socket was lying on the ground and it ran off. The lightweight, high speed bullet explosively fragmented, causing major damage, but not giving the penetration hunting bullets need.

That would be my concern with a 180 grain soft point, unless it was a very sturdy bullet like an X, especially at closer ranges.

John

R.W.Dale
July 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
Well, that's the thing. My buddy and fellow staff member Byron Q. hit a deer with a .300 WM 150 grain. Its shoulder socket was lying on the ground and it ran off.

Let me guess, Nosler Ballistic tip

mbt2001
July 20, 2008, 03:44 PM
Well, that's the thing. My buddy and fellow staff member Byron Q. hit a deer with a .300 WM 150 grain. Its shoulder socket was lying on the ground and it ran off.

:what:

uhhhh Can you give me a hand???? uhhh huh huh... uh huh huh huh

ouch

I hear you on the 180 grains... I usually take neck shots.

JShirley
July 20, 2008, 04:31 PM
No, it was a soft point, but I don't know if it was Remington or Winchester. Maybe Byron will show up and refresh my memory.

I did some more research. 180 grain .35 Whelen bullets should be flying around 2900 fps.

150 grain .300 WM bullets are traveling around 3300 fps.

The SDs of each follow.

Sectional density of 0.226 with a bullet weight of 150 and diameter of .308".
Sectional density of 0.201 with a bullet weight of 180 and diameter of .358".

So, the 150 is traveling much faster, but the 180 .35 has much lower SD. Damfino.

J

Byron Quick
July 21, 2008, 04:01 AM
Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain.

John has confused two separate incidents. Both with Core-Lokt. One with 180 grain and one with 150 grain.

The one where the ball of the shoulder joint was lying on the ground was with a 180 grain Core-Lokt. Range was thirty yards. I was aiming at the buck's short ribs on his left side with an angle to traverse both lungs and exit his right shoulder. Just as I pressed the trigger, he moved just a bit to his right. Just enough that the bullet didn't hit his short ribs. It hit his left front shoulder from behind and he did the three leg boogie out of there. Found the shoulder ball lying on the ground when I got down out of the stand.

150 grain might be ok with sturdier bullets. With Remington CoreLokt in .300 Win Mag, 150 grain is basically a varmint round. Darn thing exploded just as it entered the thoracic cavity. The lead core made a left turn and wound up under the hide at the right hip. The jacket separated into several blender blades that pureed all of that deer's organs except his bladder. Talk about a mess.

If you go with the lighter bullet, higher velocity setup, premium bullet construction is a must. If the bullet blows up on you, it'll make you wish you had never taken the shot.

only1asterisk
July 21, 2008, 04:13 AM
Lighter .35 caliber rifle bullets vary in construction. Some might not be suitable for deer close up. The Remington 200 grain PSP is ok at .35 Whelen velocities, but some roundnose bullets intended for the .35 Remington come apart too fast to please me.

David

Vern Humphrey
July 21, 2008, 01:32 PM
In my .35 Brown-Whelen, I like the 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket for elk. For whitetails, I actually use a .357 190-grain cast bullet, at around 1600 fps.

JShirley
July 21, 2008, 03:31 PM
Vern,

That sounds like good whitetail medicine. :) You cast 'em yourself?

Byron, I appreciate the clarification.

John

Vern Humphrey
July 21, 2008, 04:20 PM
Yep, out of wheel weights and lube them with liquid alox.

EShell
July 21, 2008, 04:49 PM
I used a .35 W for more than 20 years on whitetails and I don't think I'd ever wished for anything else. I've shot plenty with other calibers, but the Whelen seems almost ideal for my sort of hunting.

IMHO:
I liked the Hornaday 200 spitzer, which offered great ballistics and excellent terminal effect. I used a couple boxes of Speer 180s and they did fine, but were kind of destructive with top loads and though I've never shot a hog with it, I think they're too light. The Speer 250 was a little heavily constructed for deer and I didn't get very good expansion in the single bullet recovered. It penetrated from right hindquarter to front shoulder and was under the skin. Everything else was more broadside, and has just blown through. I got a box of Nosler 225 BTs, but never shot a deer with them, only paper.

BIGR
July 21, 2008, 09:07 PM
Once read a magazine article that listed the 35 whelen as one of the most efficient calibers around as far as getting the most out of the powder burned. Never owned one myself but they do interest me for Bambi hunting in thick brush.

Tom Krein
July 22, 2008, 07:12 AM
I like the 200 grain bullets for Whitetail. They hit with AUTHORITY!!:D

Tom

JShirley
July 29, 2008, 02:52 PM
This is a group I fired with a rebarreled '03, with peep sights. 50 yard group, from kneeling, with handloaded .357 bullets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Jinete_delViento/Whelen.jpg?t=1217349658

BIGR
August 3, 2008, 02:58 PM
Nice JShirley, I think that will do the trick.

35 Whelen
August 3, 2008, 04:30 PM
I've been using a 35 Whelen (Homemade Mauser VZ24 action w/ Douglas barrel) for a few years now. It's accounted for 1 whitetail buck, 1 whitetail doe, and 2 bull elk. The deer were both kill with Nosler 225 gr. Partitions. Bang, flop. WAY more bullet than needed for deer in my opinion. I used the same bullet to hit and ultimately lose a 5x5 bull. Long story. Two days later I killed a larger 6x6 with the Nosler. I was still a little disappointed with the lack of penetration from this bullet.
Enter the Barnes 225 gr. TSX. Super, super accurate in my rifle grouping under 1" with boring regularity. My Dad used my rifle and the Barnes to finish a bull he'd hit with his 338-06. With the Whelen and the 225 gr. Barnes started at a little under 2700 fps, he hit the bull at somewhere around 200-250 yds. square in the butt. The bullet travelled lengthwise and stopped in the bulls right shoulder.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Elkbulletruler.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/ElkHunt200524Red.jpg

Excellent bullet, but again, a little more than needed for deer. I've tested but never actually hunted with both the Hornady and Remington 200 gr. SP's. I would think they'd be all you'd need for deer plus recoil would be less than with the 225.
I have quite a bit of load data as well as chronograph data from my Whelen on 200 & 225 gr. bullets. If you need it, let me know.
Regards,
35W

pete f
August 4, 2008, 02:04 AM
I have a barrel somewhere around here that I keep for a 7600 rem. I pulled in a moment of agony when i had the chance to build a .338-06.

My 35 Whelen was a great gun, the only reason I took it apart was to build the "essential" wildcat. Mine did very well with some old Grand slam 200's that I had, they did a terrific job on the few hunts they went on, one went end to end on a decent Wisc black bear, the other knocked a cull spike elk on a friends ranch in Wyoming. I pulled that shot low and broke both its front legs, which required a second shot, not a shot I was proud of, but it was over soon enough.

Jst1mr
August 6, 2008, 06:19 PM
I see that you are a certified hunting instructor...I hope that means ethics as well, or at least that you didn't inherit the gene from your Dad that would compel someone to shoot an animal "square in the butt" at 250 yds. I don't care what confidence you have in your equipment, there is no sportsmanship in the person who takes that shot, period. Perhaps he needs to learn that part of hunting is putting yourself in to position to take a proper shot. No pride in that trophy, in my mind.

35 Whelen
August 7, 2008, 01:08 AM
Jst1mr wrote:

I see that you are a certified hunting instructor...I hope that means ethics as well, or at least that you didn't inherit the gene from your Dad that would compel someone to shoot an animal "square in the butt" at 250 yds. I don't care what confidence you have in your equipment, there is no sportsmanship in the person who takes that shot, period. Perhaps he needs to learn that part of hunting is putting yourself in to position to take a proper shot. No pride in that trophy, in my mind.

Now, now...you've gone and made a fool of yourself!
If you'll read the post carefully (prior to taking position up behind your podium), you'll see that he had already wounded the animal. Maybe you consider it "ethical" to let an animal wounded at dusk wander off into the dark timber of the New Mexico mountains and die, but I do not, nor does my father. I personally was extemely proud of him for even huffing up and down mountains @ 10,000+ ft. at his age (71 at the time).
Also, I am not a "certified hunting instructor" as you put it. I am a certified Hunter Education Instructor, and as a matter of fact, this Thursday, Friday & Saturday I'll be teaching the course, which includes a section on ethics, in Wichita Falls, Texas. Perhaps you'll join us.

"It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" -Abraham Lincoln

35W

Jst1mr
August 7, 2008, 10:24 AM
My bad and I humbly apologize...lesson learned to read a post more carefully before setting off on a rant. I wish you and your father the best, and hope you accept my apology. Thanks for not tearing me up worse than you did! :o

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 7, 2008, 11:25 AM
I didn't know the "Texas heart shot" was allowed once you Texicans travel out of your home state. :p Very nice!

35 Whelen
August 7, 2008, 10:09 PM
My bad and I humbly apologize...lesson learned to read a post more carefully before setting off on a rant. I wish you and your father the best, and hope you accept my apology. Thanks for not tearing me up worse than you did!

Hey...we all show our bad side from time to time...and I'm speaking from LOTS of experience.:banghead: Apology accepted!
35W

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