Why am I jonesing for a .25acp?


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Snowdog
July 16, 2008, 12:20 PM
Ok, from someone who never passes up an opportunity to badmouth the lowly .25acp and it's insanely anemic 65lbs muzzle energy with a tiny 50gr pill, I've been looking at the Colt Jr. a lot lately. Why is that? If small is the goal, my P32 offers a small package that delivers nearly twice the muzzle energy.

I'm assuming it's because it's one of the few calibers I've never had a firearm chambered in. However, there's something about the thought of having a tiny .25acp Colt Jr. that I appealing. If it wasn't for the price (typically over $400), I would have "bit the bullet" by now... though FIE offers something that looks similar for nearly half the price.

What can anyone tell me about the Colt Jr. ? Also, has anyone else found themselves jonesing for a firearm they know they won't find any use for?

Below is a Colt Jr. being sold on Gunbroker (auction link http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104424710 )

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/104424000/104424710/pix1185524171.jpg

Here's an FIE "look-alike" of the Colt Jr. for half the price (auction link http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8699649 )

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/9665122045/f4506fe376ddb4917f2f8648afcbed70.jpg?

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Mike OTDP
July 16, 2008, 12:25 PM
I'll confess to looking at a Browning Baby on occasion.

Z71
July 16, 2008, 12:25 PM
An Astra, marketed by Colt for a few years. No experience with them, but likely a decent enough little gun.

Oh!! I just read the box cover! Thats still a decent gun I guess, it is identical to the Astra cub. Wonder who made it for FIE, or if FIE made the thing themselves. Do a google on Astra pistols and maybe learn a bit about the design.

Why are you "Jonesing" a .25? Don't know that!

I've got an old FN Browning Vest Pocket .25, just about identical to the older Colt 1908, and its a fine little .25 auto. I also have a Bauer .25 auto. A clone of the Baby Browning in stainless steel. Fun little pea-shooters.

FranklyTodd
July 16, 2008, 12:51 PM
I have an Italian-made FIE I'll sell you cheap!

Price .25acp ammo before you take the plunge!

I actually like my .25, but it doesn't get much use since I got my LCP. The FIE is the same size, but twice as heavy.

Pat-inCO
July 16, 2008, 12:52 PM
A .25 auto is an EXCELLENT round, if you want to be of more danger to yourself than the BG.

The Ruger LCP would be a far better choice.

stevereno1
July 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
I used to have a li'l raven in 25acp. Neat little pop gun. not a serious defense gun though.

Snowdog
July 16, 2008, 02:02 PM
It really has nothing to do with defense. I would never ever ever employ any .25acp in a defensive role; I should have made that point in my original post.
If I need to carry something smaller than my K9 or S&W model 36, I have my P32 (which sees plenty of pocket carry). Even this .32acp pocket rocket I consider strictly a "straight in the snot-locker" defensive piece.
So to recap... any pistol I might buy chambered for this anemic cartridge would never serve a defensive role as I have a plethora of firearms better suited for this detail.

This craving I have for the .25acp feels more like something having to do with nostalgia than anything else. I've always gravitated towards the older "all steel" designs such as the 1911, HiPower and revolvers over more modern and potentially more sensible polymer-framed and alloy-framed firearms.

I guess I'll have to pick up one of these Colt Juniors or something of similar ilk (older design, all steel) in .25acp just to satisfy my illogical attraction.

makarovnik
July 16, 2008, 09:45 PM
I am getting a Beretta 21A for my wife in .25acp. Beretta is making them again. They only make these in limited quantities. Does the .25acp meet the FBI's penetration requirements? Most people go for the .22LR because performance is almost the same in a short barrel and ammo is so much cheaper. All my .25acp's are reliable and accurate.

Defensory
July 16, 2008, 10:01 PM
Posted by Snowdog:
I would never ever ever employ any .25acp in a defensive role; I should have made that point in my original post.

You obviously understand the severe limitations of the cartridge, so as long as you never employ it as a primary defensive arm, then have it if you can afford it.

However, I don't see what's so "appealing" about a gun that's virtually worthless for both self-defense and target shooting.

I'd rather invest the $400+ in a weapon that's actually useful.

wally
July 16, 2008, 10:18 PM
Most people go for the .22LR because performance is almost the same in a short barrel and ammo is so much cheaper

True for sure, but reliability of the rimfire in such a small gun is poor, that's why JMB invented the .25ACP round when even he couldn't get a self-defense level of reliability with the .22 in such small guns.

In the days before the Keltec P32 these little guns filled a niche. Now the P3AT or LCP is a far better choice.

But the small .25ACP guns are neat and becoming more collectible every year.

If you plan on shooting it much at all get the 21A in .22lr as the ammo costs will eat you up otherwise, although reliability will be only plinker worthy.

--wally.

gbelleh
July 16, 2008, 10:39 PM
I have an Astra CUB .25 and it's a fun gun to own, though I rarely shoot it. There is something cool about tiny guns, especially when they're quality guns like the Colt Jr. or Astra CUB. I'd like to pick up a baby Browning too.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/gbelleh/mice1.jpg

ozarkhillbilly
July 16, 2008, 11:30 PM
Snowdog

Hey, I have been thinking the same thing. I have a Beretta 21 in 22lr and a Beretta tomcat in 32acp and a sig230 in 380. Now I want a little .25acp as well, I would also like to get a Beretta in 22short.

I do not really carry any of them for self defense, but they are fun to have. So Snowdog when you buy one let us know what you got and what you think of it.

KiltedClaymore
July 17, 2008, 12:12 AM
i can tell you why. cause they are fun, and novel. plus, they are hard to master.

HisSoldier
July 17, 2008, 12:27 AM
I have both an Astra and an FIE, and the quality of the Astra is way above that of the FIE, I'll not buy another FIE The FIE looks like heck, and it's obvious that it came from the factory like that. I'm looking for another Astra in .25, a Colt Junior would do.
Oh yeah, that Astra is way more accurate than such a tiny gun has a right to be too! I have no trouble keeping 6 rounds in a 6" circle at 30 feet.

Jason_G
July 17, 2008, 12:29 AM
If I were to ever get one it'd be a Browning. I'd be getting it for the same purpose- "just because"- so I'd want one I thought was aesthetically pleasing. I once saw an engraved one with MOP stocks that was beautiful. And I hate .25's, engraving, and MOP stocks.

Jason

wyocarp
July 17, 2008, 12:52 AM
Wanting one is all the reason one needs. The first gun that I bought myself was a .25 and it was before I knew it would be worthless. I've kept it for almost 30 years and now I don't ever know where it is at because my son thinks it is neat even though he never shoots it.

Frizzman
July 17, 2008, 01:26 AM
OK for play but not for business!!!

Skofnung
July 17, 2008, 01:49 AM
Sometimes you get a craving for something irrational. I like old top break revolvers. Just because.

There is something about little pocket guns that intrigue me. I understand your attraction to the baby Colt. If you have the duckets, you should get one.

Sometimes the itch needs scratching.

Hoppy590
July 17, 2008, 02:16 AM
My name is Hoppy, and im a Pocketpistol-Holic

im jonesing fro a 1908 vest pocket

.38 Special
July 17, 2008, 02:23 AM
Hamilton Bowen has built .25 ACP revolvers on S&W K frames. In the practical sense, this is an utterly useless handgun. I can still envision myself having all sorts of fun with one, though. A reloadable .22 using moonclips, done up in Bowen's usual perfection on a classic platform.

I at least have an inkling of what the OP is feeling, I think.

KBintheSLC
July 17, 2008, 04:02 PM
I think a little 25 would make a nice novelty item, but as you mentioned, it could not be considered a useful defensive tool. My P32 feels marginal at best... a 25 on the other hand, you might be better served with a good knife.

rcmodel
July 17, 2008, 04:05 PM
Knife or a Baby Browning?

I'll take the Baby every time!

rcmodel

weisse52
July 17, 2008, 04:15 PM
If you want one, buy one...

It may come as a surprise to some people, but all guns can be fun. We should not have to justify a purchase we make to everyone.

I have owned, (AND OH MY GOD I CARRIED IT FOR SD) a little Beretta in .25 and it was a ton of fun to shoot. I have a NAA .22 mag (AND OH MY GOD I CARRY IT FOR SD) It also is fun to shoot.

They are better for fun than defense, but sometime, and in some places they beat a rock. OK, they beat a small rock..

Rex B
July 17, 2008, 04:18 PM
I can relate. I bought an Astra Cub in .22 short recently. Very cool little pistol.
Surprisingly loud too.

weisse52
July 17, 2008, 04:24 PM
OH, and I forgot!

A COLT IS ALWAYS THE RIGHT ANSWER!

Just in case anyone thinks I only mean 1911's.:evil:

jackstinson
July 18, 2008, 10:44 AM
One may as well ask why someone joneses for ANY gun, regardless of cartridge: Because you want one! :)
.25's are addictive. They are simply fun to shoot, generally reliable, and there have been a ton of varieties made to choose from. I bought my first one for giggles, then found myself buying more of them (more giggles!).
.25acp ammo is not really expensive online. Sellier & Bellot, CCI Blazer, Aquila, etc usually run $11-$13 for a box of 50. Sure, if you buy Winchester .25 it IS expensive....so I don't buy .25's at Walmart or Gander Mountain. Sure, they are more than 9mm WWB, but not by much.
The Astra Cub (Colt Jr) is a great little gun! If you are interested in that design, I usually see the Astra for less than the Colt...same gun. I see Astras for $175-$250 at shows, the same gun marked Colt for $300-$450. I paid $120 for the .22 short version last year at a show. FIE, QFI, and Heritage offered some quite reliable .25's, mostly based on Tanfoglio GT25 or GT27 or Astra Cub designs. Their Titan model is inexpensive, reliable, and easy to work on, and easy to get parts for.
Of all my .25's, my favorite is the Beretta 950B. Tip-up barrel, reliable design, a fun shooter. I shoot it a lot in my basement with primer-fired .25 air gun pellets. I load H&N pellets into primered .25acp shells and they are great for basement shooting. Sort of a .25acp "Colibri".
Jack
http://weirdjack.com/guns/bauer_T.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/beretta950t.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/titant.jpg

gopguy
July 18, 2008, 11:49 AM
The original Colt 1908 was a thing of beauty. The workmanship was top notch. Lovely dark blue with case hardened trigger... I can understand lusting it. I have five .25 autos. Two are Colt 1908s, One early FN, a Beretta 418 and 950 that my wife used as a backup when she first got into carrying a gun. None are used now, if we need something small the Keltec P32 gets the job.

The later Colt Jr. I never cared for them much. It is a Spanish Astra design and the pre 1968 pistols of course were made by Astra. As many have said, if you want it go for it.

FranklyTodd
July 18, 2008, 12:01 PM
I have both an Astra and an FIE, and the quality of the Astra is way above that of the FIE, I'll not buy another FIE The FIE looks like heck, and it's obvious that it came from the factory like that.

I'm honestly not trying to defend the honor of my FIE that I inherited from my dad, but...

I did some research on the gun after I got it last fall when my dad passed. I think the imported FIEs are of pretty high quality. I forget the dates, but I think those are from the 60s, maybe into the 70s. Later, some outfit if Florida started making FIE, and they sucked (out loud, as my 8 & 10 year old like to say). So, if you find an FIE, and it says made in Italy, you probably are ok. I shot 50 WWB through mine and it was actually a hoot to shoot, and no failures of any kind.

Sniper X
July 18, 2008, 01:10 PM
I had a GF who carried a Beretta Jetfire in .25acp till I showed her how anemic it was compared to a .22.....she sold the jetfire and got one in .22.

Confederate
July 18, 2008, 01:51 PM
I don't know, perhaps small guns remind you of your childhood toys. Anyway, I certainly wouldn't sell them short as weapons. Those little .25s have prevented many crimes and have dropped many a bad guy, a surprising number who died.

http://fancydressme.com/images/251.jpg

rklessdriver
July 18, 2008, 07:13 PM
A few months ago walking around a gun show I spotted and then bought a little Bauer .25Auto. Direct copy of a Browning Baby except in stainless and a very well made little pistol. I thought it would make a nice addition (one I would actually carry every now and then) to my other .25Auto, a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket, I've had for ever but don't carry anymore due to it's collector value. The little Bauer disappears in my pocket and its great for all the times when you "don't need a gun".


To all the nay-sayers out there, how many of you volunteer to let someone shoot you with a .25ACP? I'd think a 50gr ball round at near point blank range would ruin your day... possibally your entire week.

I agree for truly "pissed off Cape Buffalo" stopping power the .25ACP is far from ideal, but we can't drive our M1 Abrams everywhere/everyday. I believe a .25 in your pocket is a damn site better than what ever you left at home.
Will

Cocked & Locked
July 18, 2008, 09:13 PM
Why am I jonesing for a .25acp?

Because they are way cool? ;)

1908 model Colt made in 1926

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6259764/317273115.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6259764/317262990.jpg

Defensory
July 18, 2008, 09:53 PM
Yes, there are people who have used tiny guns with tiny bullets successfully for self-defense. There are also people who have jumped out of airplanes with nonfunctional parachutes and survived. It is respectfully submitted that neither is a promising model for the rest of us to follow.

Massad Ayoob
The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, 6th Edition

Stoney
July 18, 2008, 10:59 PM
Better then a rock and twice as fun.;)
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/pstone001/100_1778.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/pstone001/100_1773.jpg

TehK1w1
July 18, 2008, 11:04 PM
I had a 1908 vest pocket for a while, it was a hoot at the range. Surprisingly accurate, once you get used to the grip safety

Confederate
July 19, 2008, 01:12 AM
With all due respect to Mr. Ayoob, there are probably more people around who have successfully used .25ACPs against bad guys than people who have jumped from airplanes with nonfunctional parachutes and have survived.

Although his advice is good, I believe he and others very much underrate the value of this caliber.

Defensory
July 19, 2008, 01:27 AM
".25 ACP...Probably the most widely used cartridge for the untrained and non-knowledgeable person seeking a self-defense pistol....It is an extremely inadequate choice for self-protection even when chambered in premium grade pistols like the Walther TPH or the Baby Browning. This round lacks penetration, projectile expansion or even velocity. It has nothing to offer..."

Frank James
Effective Handgun Defense: A Comprehensive Guide to Concealed Carry
Gun Digest Books

The Lone Haranguer
July 19, 2008, 01:42 AM
I always thought the Beretta 950BS "Jetfire" to be a neat little gun. :) Would I carry it for defense? Highly unlikely, but I would never say never.

CSG
July 19, 2008, 02:09 AM
You know what, most of the people who badmouth the .25 ACP really don't know what the hell they're talking about. True, larger calibers offer more potent rounds but so what. I've carried a Beretta .25 (950 BS) many a time and never felt naked with it. 9 rounds of .25 is potent enough if you use the right ammo and realize you're not carrying a shotgun.

Plus, .25's are just plain cool little pistols and fun to shoot. Try running some hardball through some 2x and get back to me.

denfoote
July 19, 2008, 02:22 AM
I was anti .25acp...until I read this!!!!

http://www.westvalleyview.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=31630&SectionID=2&SubSectionID=1&S=1

Armed men try to take baby, shootout ensues in Avondale

At that point, the man pulled out his .25-caliber handgun and the three robbers started shooting at the man and the house.

"The victim shot back at them," Espinoza said.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Defensory
July 19, 2008, 04:11 AM
"The 25 Automatic offers surprising velocity for such a small cartridge. However, delivered energy is quite modest. This, combined with the full-metal jacketed bullet of the conventional load, adds up to very poor stopping or killing power on anything. Lighter, expanding bullets lack adequate penetration or delivered energy to suggest any significant improvement. The 25 Auto is not powerful enough for hunting anything but pests, nor is it adequate for serious self-defense."

Frank Barnes
Cartridges of the World, 11th edition
Gun Digest Books

Onmilo
July 19, 2008, 11:28 AM
Feel not alone Original Poster!
I have been lusting for a Walther Model 8 for better than twenty years now.
Right time and right price have yet to materialize for me yet.

skoro
July 19, 2008, 11:32 AM
I get the same strange urge from time to time. I can't really explain it other than to say that mouse guns are cute. I too like the Colt Junior and its look-alikes.

weisse52
July 20, 2008, 06:59 PM
DO YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY READ THESE POSTS!!!!!!!

OP says he wants a mouse gun for fun. Others discuss how much fun they are.

THEN it starts to go down hill with people talking about how inadquete the .25 is and how he will be doomed if he even puts it in his pocket.

I am pretty sure he was talking about how much fun they are. Guess what, we do not all buy guns to keep back the dregs of society.

Give it a break folks, I AM SURE everyone will agree that a .45 is much better than a .25, but I am not sure that that was the subject of the post.

tinygnat219
July 20, 2008, 10:17 PM
I can answer this one. Because it interests you.

Go for it!

pocketgun
July 20, 2008, 10:30 PM
I love .25s! I have a Seecamp LWS25, a Colt Vest Pocket (1908), a PSP-25 (Browning Baby licensed copy) and would love to buy a few more. Enjoy - not every firearm needs to be for self-defense, even if that was its original purpose.

R.W.Dale
July 20, 2008, 10:40 PM
The 25 Auto is not powerful enough for hunting anything but pests, nor is it adequate for serious self-defense."

Frank Barnes
Cartridges of the World, 11th edition
Gun Digest Books

See this is the kind of useless drivel that passes for writing in the gun world. Serious self defense.....***...... versus what casual self defense. Authors today just literally write crap for no other reason than to fill the page

Cartridges of the world is so chocked full of errors and useless opinion I just use it for comic relief.

News flash all handguns kinda suck at stopping people. If you're "SERIOUS" :rolleyes: about self defense then you shouldn't be using anything other than a long gun.

HisSoldier
July 20, 2008, 10:58 PM
I shoot my Astra .22 short in the machine shop at 30 feet. As I've said the tiny gun is very accurate even with such a short sight radius. It wasn't designed for target shooting but for self defense! A .22 short for self defense! I find that for target shooting it answers many questions that my 1911 doesn't, mainly, how can I shoot in my shop without getting the neighbors all riled up! The factors that allow ever tighter groups with a 1911 target .45 are there in the .22 short, hold the sights on the target and squeeze the trigger. If I miss the 1/8" sheet steel backstop after missing the 14 1/2" diameter 5/16" thick AR plate gong (with target stuck to it) the slug will not go beyond the field beyond my shop, that .45 would. I suspect the .45 might make it through the 1/8" backstop. So, for not much money nor noise I get to shoot indoors to my hearts content. :)

jfrey
July 20, 2008, 11:13 PM
I was given a little 1908 vest-pocket and it is fun to shoot. A lot more accurate than I ever thought possible. I never thought about it as being much better than a knife in a gun fight, until I read an article about a shooting in a nearby town. Woman killed her husband with one shot from a .25. Proves shot placement is everything. The older ones are neat and a part of history.

metrotps
July 21, 2008, 01:12 AM
I have owned a bunch of .25's over the years. From garbage to the best. I currently have a Beretta 950 and an engraved nickel plated Galesi that will be my daughter's at 21. I never buy the ammo at retail and have always found cheap ammo at gunshows or estate sales. Do youself a favor and go for a Colt if you can afford it.

Im283
January 3, 2009, 08:31 PM
I don't know what it is about the .25.

I was drawn to them at the last gun show I attended. Saw several and none of them from a Bauer, Iver Johnson, Colt, Browning made me say, "I gotta have it" After the third pass through the room I spied an old and lonely
FN .25 in a cabinet. Asked what they wanted for it, counter offered and walked away with this old pistol.

Got home to discover it was missing the follower and the firing pin was broke.

Well what do you do with a 1905 FN Vest Pocket Pistol that needs parts?

Search the crap out of the internet until you find some.

The nice man on the phone on St. Louis assured me he had the correct parts. And also that parts for similar pistol will not work. Of course they do not take credit card over the phone or sell over the internet. So I fired off a check vial snail mail. Now I sit and wait to see what they send me.

FN did not keep records. The pistol's serial number is below 2700. I believe it to be a 1905, early model. There is no external safety, only a grip safety.

Other than that the gun looks 100 years old, and must have been used as a hammer.

Maybe it has collector value. It will be fine to shoot once the replacement parts arrive. The bore is pretty good.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90377&stc=1&d=1231028987

Anyone have any idea what it may be worth?

F1
January 3, 2009, 08:44 PM
A few months ago walking around a gun show I spotted and then bought a little Bauer .25Auto. Direct copy of a Browning Baby except in stainless and a very well made little pistol. I thought it would make a nice addition (one I would actually carry every now and then) to my other .25Auto, a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket, I've had for ever but don't carry anymore due to it's collector value. The little Bauer disappears in my pocket and its great for all the times when you "don't need a gun".



THAT was the worst gun ever I ever owned. By far. I don't think it was able to get off two shots in row without jamming.

MICHAEL T
January 3, 2009, 09:27 PM
I carried a 25 for years . In early 80's a guy tried to rob me with a folding knife in a parking garage early in morning. I drew a Beretta 950 25 and Road Runner couldn't have caught him. Guess it worked for self defence that time. Lots of people have used and carried 25 autos .From punks ,adverage citizens, to police , Might be better out their but 25 in hand better than nothing . Lots of people that knock the 25 will drop a little 22 revolver in their pocket and think their better armed I think their not. We all make our choice.
I just picked up a Nickle 32 short S&W lemon squeezer top break pistol (1910 or so) hell I might cary it now and
then. I remember a lot of old men packen 25's 32 short and long 38S&W auto and topbreaks when I was a kid. 32long in leg stopped my father real fast one day.
Not everybody reads gun boards or rags and know you need a 40 or bigger to defend yourself

gbw
March 10, 2010, 12:36 AM
I've always been interested in the PSA and PSP .25's. If I'm not mistaken they were licensed copies of the Baby Browning (made on same machinery?) produced in Charlottesville, VA. It would be neat to have a pistol with the name of my hometown on it.

I have one I bought new 15 or 20 years ago. I'll try to get photos tomorrow. Beautifully made little pistol and totally reliable.

Please delete - wrong thread, SORRY~

benderx4
March 10, 2010, 12:43 AM
I got everyone in my family a Beretta Jetfire .25acp - truly one of the coolest little SAO semis I've ever handled, and it sure beats a sharp stick in the eye.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/4196739202_aea9f05383.jpg

dogngun
March 29, 2010, 01:20 PM
I enjoy and usually carry a .45 ACP, but I have carried several .25 ACP pistols when I could not carry anything larger. I would not feel as comfortable with one, but stick it in his ****ing ear and empty the mag, and you will get positive results from it.


mark

amd6547
March 29, 2010, 04:22 PM
I have a Beretta 21a 25acp, an older high polish blue/ wood grip model. It is 100% reliable, and pretty accurate...I have a blast knocking down the metal bowling pin silouettes my club has...They have to be hit on the head of the pin to knock them over with the 25. I just wish there was cheap ammo, I would shoot it alot more.
And, I do slip it into my pocket once in a while.

christcorp
March 29, 2010, 04:43 PM
I don't normally dog a caliber. I even use a 32acp many times for a carry gun. But I have a problem with a caliber, like the 25acp, when a 22LR has more velocity and energy; and can even have close to the same bullet weight. 25acp averages, 50 grain bullet, 760 fps and 60 ft/lbs. 22LR averages, 40 grain bullet, 1200 fps and 140 ft/lbs. And that's not counting rounds like stingers that punch out close to 1700 fps and close to 200 ft/lbs. And considering that for a box of 50 each 25acp, you can get 500 rounds of 22LR, just doesn't make sense.

The only argument that anyone has ever been able to give for a 25acp over a 22LR is that it isn't rimfire and that it has a primer. So maybe it's a little more reliable of a round. But I don't buy it, because if used for defensive purposes, I'd be using hi quality ammo like the stinger. And those are known to be very reliable.

outerlimit
March 29, 2010, 04:58 PM
Every dog has his day. The .25acp has had its day.

If it was around $2-$3 a 50rd box, it could probably make a comeback.

amd6547
March 29, 2010, 05:05 PM
22lr velocities quoted are often from rifle length barrels...and yes, 25acp is centerfire,plus has an FMJ bullet, which can aid penetration.
I have fired both a 22lr Beretta 21a and a 21a in 25acp into phone books, and the 25 went about 50 pages deeper (I was using FMJ in the 25, and minimag solids in the 22).

outerlimit
March 29, 2010, 05:12 PM
Minimag solids have a little more of a flat point than the typical .25acp fmj, but that doesn't surprise me either as the .25acp is a little heavier as well.

Nasty
March 29, 2010, 06:51 PM
I also got my Dad's .25 Beretta Jetfire 950, was with him in fact when he bought it in 1968 and I was 14. Nice keepsake and a lot of fun to shoot.

It'll go to a grandkid some day.

Ben86
March 29, 2010, 07:08 PM
Why am I jonesing for a .25acp?


Because you own every other gun your heart desired. :)

I don't see what they offer besides nostalgia.

MCgunner
March 29, 2010, 07:20 PM
I don't know, a .25 is the only gun I've ever used in self defense and it worked, primarily because the BG brought a knife to a gun fight. I never had to fire a shot, didn't say anything, just pulled it and racked the slide. :D

Any gun is better than no gun, but now days P3ATs are the same size as that old .25 I had. That Colt or a baby Browning would be neat to own, though. Don't have to carry it to own it and shoot it. I own a couple of mini revolvers. They're fun.

JR47
March 29, 2010, 07:31 PM
Yes, the usual ".22s are better" is based upon an 18" barrel on the .22.

The .25 ACp will generate 900+ fps out of a short barrel, with the 35 gr. XTP/JHP from Fiocchi. It is listed at 900 fps from Hornady, as well. To get a 35 gr. .22 lr to do the same will require a much longer barrel.


I wouldn't recommend the .25 ACP as a primary weapon, unless it's all you have. It can kill, or seriously wound, but isn't able to reliably produce either.

As for fun, though, that's another subject altogether. The .25 ACP is more reliable feeding in most pocket autos than the rim-fires. It has fewer failures to fire, and is just a lot of fun to plink with. I have a Beretta 950BS, an Ortgies Vest Pocket, a Gradoga, and some older Ravens, all in .25 ACP.

FYI, the little 950BS in .22 Short is no longer manufactured. I own one, and it, too, is fun to shoot.

Not everyone is interested in using EVERY gun that they own to fend off the Hordes. Some people own a gun simply because they want to.:D

SharpsDressedMan
March 29, 2010, 07:58 PM
Gun show find, grips added later. Now carried part time, along with a primary defensive pistol. When having to disarm (in restricted places), the .25 sometimes gets "forgotten". As all have stated above, .25 can be amazingly accurate, more reliable than .22's, and will kill at close range. I would not want to fend off a facefull of .25's at close quarters. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05655.jpg

KevinR
March 29, 2010, 08:47 PM
I have a copy of the Baby Browning It is made by a company called EXCAM and they call it a Diplomat. It is a .25 and I gave about $150 for it new. Three things I do not like about the gun are #1 .25ACP #2 S/A Only #3 the Brl is very loose fit in the gun almost seems like it could exit the frame with the next shot. I feel the .25ACP is just the bottom of the barrel, I would rather have a .22 or .32
To answer your question, I dont know why you are jonesing for a .25 you must be sick or something :p

geologist
March 30, 2010, 12:31 AM
I bought my Baby Browning because it is such a beautiful piece of John Browning design.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000029.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000030.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000025.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000031.jpg

The Baby is certainly small. Here it is beside my Beretta 71 and SW model 12 Airweight.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000004-5.jpg

And beside my G17 and SW 17.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/S5000018-1.jpg

But since .25 ACP is so expensive, I bought an Astra Cub in .22 short to practice with.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/astrachrome2.jpg

christcorp
March 30, 2010, 12:40 AM
Yes, I understand the 1200-1300 fps ratings of a 22LR are out of a rifle. However, even in a traditional 5-6" pistol, it's better than the 25acp. I'll keep the 22LR with stingers out of my Ruger Mark II before I own a 25acp. And, if you want, you can even get 60 grain subsonic 22LR Aguila sniper LRN. Out of a 4" barrel, the 22LR is better. In a 2-3" type gun, the 22LR and the 25acp are almost identical. If they're almost identical, I think I'll save my money and buy 500 rounds for the price of 1 box of 25acp. Makes for some great practicing.

The only thing the 25acp has going for it over the 22LR is the primer. "Some" 22lr ammo with rimfire is not that reliable to go bang when you need it. But there is also some very good hi quality 22lr ammo out there too. A box or two of that for defensive purposes would be fine, with the rest being $15-$20 a brick of 500 plinking ammo. No, I'll keep the Mark II or the Dan Wesson revolver in 22lr before getting a 25acp which is on it's BEST day equal to a 22lr. And why would I buy a caliber that is equal to a 22lr when it costs $18-$20 for a box of 50 for plinking ammo, and the same price will get me 500 rounds of ammo. Makes no sense.

geologist
March 30, 2010, 01:18 AM
.25 ACP is rimless making it more reliable with respect to feeding and extracting than a rimmed .22LR or short.

amd6547
March 30, 2010, 08:36 AM
I won't be dropping my Ruger Mk1 in my pocket, like I will my Beretta 21a...

hhb
March 30, 2010, 09:26 AM
Keep in mind that all Colt Jr.s were recalled.

MCgunner
March 30, 2010, 09:33 AM
.25 ACP is rimless making it more reliable with respect to feeding and extracting than a rimmed .22LR or short.

Actually, it's simi-rimmed, head spaces on the rim, like the .32ACP. But, yeah, other than possible rim lock, it's more reliable than any rimfire in small autos. I really prefer my mini revolvers in .22, gives 'em reliability. .22 mag is a might more gun than .25ACP, too, even from the short 1 5/8" barrel. It'll push near 1000 fps with a 40 grain load. Still, there ain't enough difference to get excited about ballistically, both being inadequate. But, sometimes, you just have to settle for what you can carry and get away with carrying. 99 percent of the time, what's in my pocket has a .355 or .357" diameter bullet loaded, though. I do prefer a bigger round if I ever have to get into an actual gun fight and carrying my 12 gauge isn't real practical.

outerlimit
March 30, 2010, 10:04 AM
I don't know, a .25 is the only gun I've ever used in self defense and it worked, primarily because the BG brought a knife to a gun fight. I never had to fire a shot, didn't say anything, just pulled it and racked the slide.

I had that happen once in my backyard, but I used a high powered flashlight instead of a .25acp. I wouldn't want to carry a high powered flashlight around as my only defense.

outerlimit
March 30, 2010, 10:06 AM
@MCgunner

I never noticed the rim much on the 25acp's I had, but I did on the .32's. I never would have guessed the .25acp is semi-rimmed, especially since I don't remember seeing one on the cartridge cases and the .25acp mouse guns like the Beretta Jetfire hold more rounds in .25acp than .22lr, I thought mostly because of the rim. It's been a long time for me with the .25acp, and a while since I had a box, but Wikipedia seems to suggest they are in fact semi-rimmed, not that Wiki is the end all of information. ;) If it is in fact semi-rimmed, is it less pronounced than the .32acp? I just don't remember the .25acp having a case rim and that's one of the reasons why I remember liking them.

I always had a like for the .32acp, but not the case rim. Also, I always thought a rimless .32acp cartridge with about a 60-70gr. cartridge loaded to about 200ft/lbs (or a little better than the Fiocchi specs for the .32acp) would be the perfect double stack pocket gun platform. It could be about the size of a P32/P3At.

I'm thinking maybe they could make it a little longer as well so it wouldn't chamber in .32acp pistols, like maybe 1mm longer or so. And mark the boxes 32 RIMLESS (and the maker) or something like that so it would be hard to confuse. Like for example NAA came out with a 32 round that is basically a tapered .380 case, but this wouldn't be tapered, it could be 32 RIMLESS NAA, just as an example.

clang
March 30, 2010, 10:26 AM
I've got one .25 Auto - it is a Walther Model 9. This gun makes the Baby Browning look big.

MCgunner
March 30, 2010, 12:03 PM
I've not yet figured out why a .32NAA is superior to a .380 especially since it's chambered in the same gun. I'll take the .380, myself.

Well, I never had a problem with rim lock in the .25, never owned a .32, just hear about this malady from time to time. My cheap POS .25 ran great. Unlike .22LR, the .25 is MADE for this application and really does work best. Not only does it feed clean and stack clean in a magazine, but the center fire primer is more reliable in ignition. In my .22 LR mini revolver, if I don't change ammo once every week or two in the hot, sweaty summer, I'll get misfires. I am diligent about changing the rounds out. I don't carry it as a primary, just an also gun, just sayin'.

christcorp
March 30, 2010, 01:57 PM
I think the key is that neither a 25acp nor a 22lr should be used as a primary defense weapon. The smallest most reliable caliber should be at least a 32acp. Not saying that a 25acp or a 22lr can't protect you; they can. Just that they are better as being a back up gun than a primary.

outerlimit
March 30, 2010, 02:53 PM
I've not yet figured out why a .32NAA is superior to a .380 especially since it's chambered in the same gun.

It is the energy folks. Energy is all, and it trumps everything according to them.

MCgunner
March 30, 2010, 02:58 PM
Ask the people who support the .40 in the 9x19mm platform, I have no idea either!

I think it's more analogous to the .357 Sig vs the .40S&W and in that case, I can't see an advantage in the Sig, either. Only theory, but yeah, they say the bottle neck feeds more reliably. I can understand that reasoning, but I don't have a problem with my .380, 9x18, 9x19, or .45ACPs. Why fix what ain't broke?

I always figured the ".357" in the sig was a marketing tool. It seems to have worked in the case of Texas DPS. The .32NAA doesn't have that going for it.

JR47
March 30, 2010, 04:56 PM
Yes, I understand the 1200-1300 fps ratings of a 22LR are out of a rifle. However, even in a traditional 5-6" pistol, it's better than the 25acp. I'll keep the 22LR with stingers out of my Ruger Mark II before I own a 25acp. And, if you want, you can even get 60 grain subsonic 22LR Aguila sniper LRN. Out of a 4" barrel, the 22LR is better. In a 2-3" type gun, the 22LR and the 25acp are almost identical. If they're almost identical, I think I'll save my money and buy 500 rounds for the price of 1 box of 25acp. Makes for some great practicing.


Ok, however, the average .25 uses a sub 3" barrel. I'm also a little curious about your source of information on the actual velocities achieved through various length .22 barrels. Help us out here, and provide the source.

I have chronographed several .22 loads through my Ruger Mk. II, with a 6"+ barrel, and none have exceeded 800 fps when using high velocity ammunition.

As for the Aguila ammo, their homepage is under re-construction, so that was no help.

You are certainly welcome to stick a Ruger Mk. II in your pocket. I will imagine, though, that it's going to be less comfortable than a Beretta Model 21A, or a Beretta Model 950BS. :)

christcorp
March 30, 2010, 06:20 PM
I've already said that a 25acp or 22lr is worth no more than as a backup. Then, only if that's all you have. If you want to discuss the 25acp being a good "PRIMARY" caliber for self defense, then I will bow out of this conversation right now. I won't get into it. Anyone who thinks the 25acp or 22lr is a good "Primary" pistol caliber for self defense, has a position that I won't even discuss let alone debate.

But as a backup, yes, the 25acp can be convenient. But If we got into the 25acp and 22lr in the same size barrel pistol, they are going to be roughly equal. The 25acp definitely has the advantage of having a primer instead of a rimfire. I personally would never carry a 25acp as a backup. But in my house, I have no problem having a Ruger Mark II or a Dan Wesson revolver with 22LR stingers in them as a backup.

amd6547
March 30, 2010, 07:32 PM
There certain low-threat times when even my Browning 1910 380 or Polish P64 9mm mak are too big to carry...Yes, at that time, the 25 Beretta 21a becomes "primary"....and I am perfectly comfortable admitting that.

HisSoldier
March 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
Since this thread started I bought an Astra .25 ACP, and have been reloading for it.
I've been getting 1145 FPS out of 35 grain Gold Dots in my Astra with Bullseye and no loss of reliability. That was just an exercise for my mind, I typically load 50 grain FMJ at around 900 FPS. The gun is for fun, look at it as fun and all the discussions about stopping power are moot. ;)

The reason the Astra is so fun is because it's so accurate for such a tiny gun. It's the best .25 I own for accuracy, well, I own a Budischowsky that may be as accurate but it's in new condition and I'm trying to decide whether or not to shoot it. The Budischowsky has even better sights than the Astra.

I probably have 10 .25's of various makes, few of them have decent sights.

BushyGuy
March 30, 2010, 08:02 PM
get a 9mm compact handgun , a .25 is only about 30 percent 1 shot stop effective while 9mm is over 90 percent 1 shot stop effective plus ammo is cheaper then .25,.32 and .380 and easier to find .

MCgunner
March 30, 2010, 08:07 PM
I get near 1250 fps out a NAA super companion with 2.0 grains B'eye and a 30 grain conical.

There certain low-threat times when even my Browning 1910 380 or Polish P64 9mm mak are too big to carry...Yes, at that time, the 25 Beretta 21a becomes "primary"....and I am perfectly comfortable admitting that.

I completely understand. I have a variety of sized guns for carry for the same reason. If I can, I'll tote a major caliber. If I HAVE to, I'll tote an NAA mini. I kinda like that super companion. I'm getting better shooting it, too. I can keep 'em on the head from 40 feet slow, aimed fire, not shabby. It's minute of eye socket up close 3 yards.

JR47
March 30, 2010, 09:14 PM
If you want to discuss the 25acp being a good "PRIMARY" caliber for self defense, then I will bow out of this conversation right now. I won't get into it. Anyone who thinks the 25acp or 22lr is a good "Primary" pistol caliber for self defense, has a position that I won't even discuss let alone debate.

I have no idea what prompted that comment. It beats not having a gun, and it makes for a fun plinker, but that's about it.

I'm still waiting for some reference that supports the velocity claims of a .22 load in a sub-three-inch barrel.

christcorp
March 31, 2010, 01:40 AM
Look JR, I understand your doubts. That's cool. But Al Gore did invent the internet. It's not that hard to look up some stuff. If you doubt what I say, then prove me wrong. It won't hurt my feelings. But for the sake of argument, here's a couple of decent tests done on various 22LR. Including the Stinger, out of a Beretta m21 with a 2.4" barrel. It has the stinger coming out in the 970-1000 fps range. I gave the benefit of the doubt to the 25acp and said that in a 2-3" barrel, the 22LR would be about equal. Truth be told, the 22LR is still a faster round. But the 25acp is a little heavier than the Stinger. Using the Aguia 60 grains out of a 5" barrel, the speeds are around 700-720. But that is a pretty heavy bullet. But it's about the same velocity as the 25acp.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article3.htm

I have nothing against a 25acp pistol. As you said, it's better than nothing. But unless you found the gun in a junk yard or someone gave it to you for free, and you couldn't afford anything else, there's no reason for it to be your "PRIMARY" self defense weapon. And that's what I'm talking about. If you want to say it's a good backup gun in case... I go along with that. But not as a primary caliber. And my leading point was that a 22LR can/is about just as fast and a whole lot cheaper to shoot. So why have a 25acp. But again, I'm talking about a "PRIMARY" self defense weapon. Cost can't be the issue. There are plenty of larger caliber guns for the same or even cheaper price. Size? Well, someone, maybe you, said that there are times when a Polish P64 would be "too big" to carry. I find that extremely hard to believe. Even so, there are guns like the AMT backups, LCP, Seecamp, and plenty of others that are extremely small. And those are all 32acp and 380 which are much more suitable for self defense as a primary gun. Hope you don't mind if I let you find other sites on your own.

stinger 327
March 31, 2010, 04:48 AM
One may as well ask why someone joneses for ANY gun, regardless of cartridge: Because you want one! :)
.25's are addictive. They are simply fun to shoot, generally reliable, and there have been a ton of varieties made to choose from. I bought my first one for giggles, then found myself buying more of them (more giggles!).
.25acp ammo is not really expensive online. Sellier & Bellot, CCI Blazer, Aquila, etc usually run $11-$13 for a box of 50. Sure, if you buy Winchester .25 it IS expensive....so I don't buy .25's at Walmart or Gander Mountain. Sure, they are more than 9mm WWB, but not by much.
The Astra Cub (Colt Jr) is a great little gun! If you are interested in that design, I usually see the Astra for less than the Colt...same gun. I see Astras for $175-$250 at shows, the same gun marked Colt for $300-$450. I paid $120 for the .22 short version last year at a show. FIE, QFI, and Heritage offered some quite reliable .25's, mostly based on Tanfoglio GT25 or GT27 or Astra Cub designs. Their Titan model is inexpensive, reliable, and easy to work on, and easy to get parts for.
Of all my .25's, my favorite is the Beretta 950B. Tip-up barrel, reliable design, a fun shooter. I shoot it a lot in my basement with primer-fired .25 air gun pellets. I load H&N pellets into primered .25acp shells and they are great for basement shooting. Sort of a .25acp "Colibri".
Jack
http://weirdjack.com/guns/bauer_T.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/beretta950t.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/titant.jpg
The .25 ACP in Magsafe is more expensive and appears to be more damaging on a two by four. I was told though you are probably better off in this caliber with the FMJ for reliable feeding and most penetration with the hope of hitting a vital organ since this little caliber doesn't travel at a high enough velocity in HP to expand.

stinger 327
March 31, 2010, 04:49 AM
I've already said that a 25acp or 22lr is worth no more than as a backup. Then, only if that's all you have. If you want to discuss the 25acp being a good "PRIMARY" caliber for self defense, then I will bow out of this conversation right now. I won't get into it. Anyone who thinks the 25acp or 22lr is a good "Primary" pistol caliber for self defense, has a position that I won't even discuss let alone debate.

But as a backup, yes, the 25acp can be convenient. But If we got into the 25acp and 22lr in the same size barrel pistol, they are going to be roughly equal. The 25acp definitely has the advantage of having a primer instead of a rimfire. I personally would never carry a 25acp as a backup. But in my house, I have no problem having a Ruger Mark II or a Dan Wesson revolver with 22LR stingers in them as a backup.
The .22LR has a tendency to have more misfires and is not as reliable as the centerfire .25 ACP for what's it worth.

stinger 327
March 31, 2010, 04:52 AM
One may as well ask why someone joneses for ANY gun, regardless of cartridge: Because you want one! :)
.25's are addictive. They are simply fun to shoot, generally reliable, and there have been a ton of varieties made to choose from. I bought my first one for giggles, then found myself buying more of them (more giggles!).
.25acp ammo is not really expensive online. Sellier & Bellot, CCI Blazer, Aquila, etc usually run $11-$13 for a box of 50. Sure, if you buy Winchester .25 it IS expensive....so I don't buy .25's at Walmart or Gander Mountain. Sure, they are more than 9mm WWB, but not by much.
The Astra Cub (Colt Jr) is a great little gun! If you are interested in that design, I usually see the Astra for less than the Colt...same gun. I see Astras for $175-$250 at shows, the same gun marked Colt for $300-$450. I paid $120 for the .22 short version last year at a show. FIE, QFI, and Heritage offered some quite reliable .25's, mostly based on Tanfoglio GT25 or GT27 or Astra Cub designs. Their Titan model is inexpensive, reliable, and easy to work on, and easy to get parts for.
Of all my .25's, my favorite is the Beretta 950B. Tip-up barrel, reliable design, a fun shooter. I shoot it a lot in my basement with primer-fired .25 air gun pellets. I load H&N pellets into primered .25acp shells and they are great for basement shooting. Sort of a .25acp "Colibri".
Jack
http://weirdjack.com/guns/bauer_T.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/beretta950t.jpg..http://weirdjack.com/guns/titant.jpg
Do you know anything about those Bauer .25 ACP pistols shiny silver in color with pearl handles? In 1974 they cost around $100. Today's price for an immaculate condition?
I also remember the cheap Raven .25 ACP that cost $49.95 and it was large in size for a .25 ACP pistol.

Fleetwood_Captain
March 31, 2010, 05:39 AM
I believe the purpose of the .357 SIG is to be a better feeding and more versitile alternative to the .38 Super. .38 super is Semi-Rimmed and only works well in a single-stack magazine. .357 SIG is rimless and can be double-stacked.

As far as .25 ACP being tactical, I think it's designed to be "scare tactical." If someone has to pull out a gun in self-defense, most crooks arn't going to take the time to try to analyze the caliber or magazine capacity. They see gun, they hear boom, they crap pants. Don't forget, animals are scared off by loud noises too.

Otherwise, their fun to take to the range and make great conversation pieces. I get a kick out of Jetfires and wouldn't mind getting a Raven at a price worth buying one. After all, the Raven 25 is one of the few guns with a "turn-in" value higher than the manufacturer MSRP.

jackstinson
March 31, 2010, 09:49 AM
Do you know anything about those Bauer .25 ACP pistols shiny silver in color with pearl handles? In 1974 they cost around $100. Today's price for an immaculate condition?
I also remember the cheap Raven .25 ACP that cost $49.95 and it was large in size for a .25 ACP pistol.
I paid $150 two years ago for a Bauer "Automatic" in unfired condition (at a gun shop). But the price was lowered a little because the original owner had engraved his girl's name on it...so I call this one "Shauna".
http://weirdjack.com/guns/bauer_LT.jpg

I own many pocket pistols in .25acp (also .22, .32acp, & .380acp). I'm not going to list them all. My favorite is my 1957 Beretta 950B in .25acp, but I tend to shoot all pretty of them much equally. I love 'em! :D
Raven's are not really as large as they seem in a photo and most are quite reliable. I prefer George's original Raven models over the Phoenix re-issue. This one is a George Jennings Raven Arms MP25;
http://weirdjack.com/guns/raven-z.jpg

Ballistics? Steve's pages has some good base-level comparison info
* .22 Long Rifle - http://stevespages.com/page8f22rf.html
* .25 acp - http://stevespages.com/page8f25acp.html
* .32 acp - http://stevespages.com/page8f32acp.html
Also, The NAA website has good real-life ballistics info out of their guns.
* http://www.naaminis.com/naaveloc.html
Tons of real life info out there....some of it is even valid.

christcorp
March 31, 2010, 12:06 PM
Seems that the more I write, the more people think I am saying that people should use a 22LR as a self defense caliber. No, I'm not. I'm saying that "EXCEPT" for as a backup, the 25acp SHOULDN'T BE USED AS A PRIMARY WEAPON for self defense purposes. And the reason is because even a 22LR is equal or better to the performance of the 25acp. You don't have to rationalize with me that the 25acp isn't rimfire and therefor more reliable. LOOK..... THEY BOTH SUCK FOR SELF DEFENSE.

Do we really want to go with the "Something is better than nothing" attitude? I don't think so. Why? Because for the same physical size and cost, you can have other more practical calibers such as the 32acp and 380acp. Now, if you want to get into the backup use argument, we can. It's still hard to justify when other calibers are just as small of a gun and costs the same. But as a backup, it really doesn't matter. But as a primary weapon, there is no reason to use a 25acp as a primary caliber. Unless of course the gun was given to you for free and you can't afford to buy anything.

JR47
March 31, 2010, 01:37 PM
Look JR, I understand your doubts. That's cool. But Al Gore did invent the internet.

Understood. However, it ISN'T our responsibility to research YOUR claims. You made them, sir, back them up.

I'd also expect someone with that train of thought to have researched just who it was that put a Polish Mak in their pocket, as it wasn't me.

Neither of us has advocated either the .22, or the .25 ACP as a primary defense pistol caliber. In fact, I've stated that succinctly.

The .25 ACP produces 1000 fps out of the barrel of that Beretta 21, using Hornady XTP/JHP, and higher with Fiocchi ammo using the same bullet.

I shoot FMJ to play, and that's just about all I want to do with the little pistols. I keep some Fiocchi, Hornady, and Winchester JHP designs, just in case I should have to stand my ground against an illegal the size of a chipmunk .:D

amd6547
March 31, 2010, 03:10 PM
Man, some people get their undies in a bunch over the 25acp, yet nobody volunteers to take 10 rapid fired into their face at 5 feet.
It is a special purpose round, and I use it as such. I happened to get my Beretta 21a 25 for $125 from a private seller at a gun show with a spare mag, clip-on holster, rug, and box of winchester pellet nose 25. No tax, no paperwork. On the few occaisions I do carry it, the Beretta is the perfect choice.
Not a fan of pocket carry, even with the Beretta. Been carrying for about 30 years, and prefer IWB.
People should use what they feel is appropriate to their situation and requirements, and not get bent out of shape at other peoples choices.

coosbaycreep
March 31, 2010, 09:51 PM
I did some penetration tests not too long ago against 2x4s using a jennings J22 .22lr, an FIE titan .25acp, and keltec P32 .32acp.

I don't know the exact barrel lengths of the three, but they're close enough that it shouldn't make a difference.

here's the chronograph results:
-.22lr 36gr HP (remington golden bullet) =699fps, 39ft lbs
-.25acp 50gr FMJ remington =681fps, 52ft lbs
-.32acp winchester 71gr fmj=788fps, 98ft lbs

penetration:
-the 22lr and .25acp were almost indentical in penetration, going completely through one 2x4 and sticking into the beginning of the second
-the .32 had about twice the penetration, sticking half way between the second and third 2x4

I carry .32acp because my keltec is the smallest, lightest gun I trust, and it doesn't have a manual safety (which I like). I'd rather have more power, but I'll take my chances with a weaker round in order for the comfort of carrying a smaller/lighter gun.

.25acp IS better than .22lr when fired from a pocket pistol, and while neither caliber would be my first choice, they're better than nothing if it's all ya got.

BTW, I've always been fascinated by the tiny .25acp as well, which is why I bought one. It's not a cheap caliber to shoot, but it's a cool caliber, and they're fun to shoot.

SharpsDressedMan
March 31, 2010, 10:20 PM
My brother's "Combat .25 Colt". http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05094.jpg

stinger 327
April 1, 2010, 03:24 AM
My brother's "Combat .25 Colt". http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05094.jpg
I think I saw one of these for sale for $900.

stinger 327
April 1, 2010, 03:29 AM
I've not yet figured out why a .32NAA is superior to a .380 especially since it's chambered in the same gun. I'll take the .380, myself.

Well, I never had a problem with rim lock in the .25, never owned a .32, just hear about this malady from time to time. My cheap POS .25 ran great. Unlike .22LR, the .25 is MADE for this application and really does work best. Not only does it feed clean and stack clean in a magazine, but the center fire primer is more reliable in ignition. In my .22 LR mini revolver, if I don't change ammo once every week or two in the hot, sweaty summer, I'll get misfires. I am diligent about changing the rounds out. I don't carry it as a primary, just an also gun, just sayin'.
In a Browning Buck Mark, and Ruger 10/22, I was getting alot of misfires with the range type ammo lead point. The CCI Stingers HP, Aguilar were all very reliable and kicked alot more than the standard .22 LR. The Aguilar is suppose to be the fastest of all .22 LR at 1,750 but I don't know which rifle that would be from let lone a small pistol.
I'm trying to find that New CCI Stinger Segmented HP but it seems to be sold out everywhere.

stinger 327
April 1, 2010, 03:34 AM
On the .25ACP are we mostly refering to the FMJ standard loadings?:confused:

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