[mtnbkr]

Dunno where this belongs exactly, so here goes...

While at Virginia Arms last night, I saw an automatic Baikal BB gun. It vaguely looked like a yellow and black UZI. I have no idea what the power supply is, assuming co2 carts or electric. I never got around to checking it out physically, but it looks like a cool toy. Most automatic BB guns I've seen are either custom or collector's pieces for much more money. This had a $189 pricetag.

for those who would be interested...

Chris

[AJ Dual]

It's the Drozd. (My Russian co-worker says it translates loosely as "Thrush" as in the bird...)

It runs on a stack of 4 AA batteries kept in the foregrip, but it's still 12 gram CO2 powered.

I thought it was kind of neat too, but other than using 4.5/.177 copper/steel bb's, I think full-auto electric Airsoft may be more fun, IIRC it only holds 30 bb's or so, and the fps is not going to be higher than 450, but a cold CO2 bottle means it'll probably be much lower on average. Although it does have electronic cyclic rate controls which is kind of cool.

http://www.airgundepot.com/lib/airgundepot/drozdsm.gif

Looks like it ought to say "DeWalt" on the side... :p

[Mike Irwin]

Why did I know you'd be posting this question, Chris? :)

I checked it out briefly before you and Michelle got there.

Sure, looks like it would be fun, but powering from those little 12-gram cylinders? Expensive, and as Andrew notes, icing would be a real problem.

If there were a way to attach it to a bulk cylinder or pressurized air tank, that would be a LOT more interesting.

Given what it is, a low rate of fire (given the limitations of the cylinders), low velocity toy, I just don't see much point in it.

Dave said that the cylinders last for about a magazine and a half, IF you control your shooting to short bursts and don't chill the cylinder, which both uses more gas and lowers the velocity.

Nah. Not much point at all.

[gun-fucious]

http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/pguns/mr_661k/

european american armory imports them:
http://www.eaacorp.com/airguns/drozd/index.shtml

The first time we saw this CO2 powered, select fire BB gun we were amazed! We said to ourselves that the Baikal factory had better be ready to make a lot of these. The DROZD is powered by a standard CO2 cartridge and four (AAA) batteries to give you the ultimate BB gun. There are three switches on the Drozd :
_
* The first powers up the electrical firing mechanism
* The second is for the selection of fire (1 = single shot, 2 = three round burst, 3 = six rounds burst)
* The third switch controls cycle speed ( 300 rds/m, 450 rds/m, 600 rds/m). The pistol style magazine holds 30 BBs at a time and the CO2 cartridge.
_
With the magazine inserted and the butt stock installed, you have the fit and feel of a military style weapon that shoots BBs for your shooting sports pleasure.

no need to buy from an FFL:
$219.00

heck, its on sale:
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=362

http://www.denkins.com/drozd.htm

http://www.geocities.com/bbmachinegun/review8.htm

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews5734.html

[fatboyclone]

i stopped by Va Arms 2 weeks ago and Bernie let my brother and I shoot it. Its fun to shoot, would be cool to run the squirrels out of my trash cans.

[cordex]

Might be fun to play around with.

I'd love a select-fire BB gun that could use a hopper or magazine and use either the big CO2 tanks or an air compressor.
I like options.

[bdhawk]

didn't someone used to make full auto bb guns that used freon?

[Mike Irwin]

BD,

Yes. Used the little 1 pound cans that you could get at auto stores.

They used to be advertised in American Rifleman. I'll see if I can find an ad...


Virginia Arms was offering this critter for $189.00

[MagKnightX]

Unfortunately, I don't think the NRA range would let me shoot that there. But that's a good deal compared to the other prices I've seen (250-300 dollars).

Yes, it definitely looks like DeWalt branched out into the automatic weaponry business.

[4v50 Gary]

Looks like a glue gun. Good enough to get shot for carrying it though.

[roscoe]

We had one of those freon-powered guns. Rapid fire, but it wouldn't penetrate a jean jacket over a t-shirt. Stung a little.

[Mike Irwin]

"Yes, it definitely looks like DeWalt branched out into the automatic weaponry business."


:D

I didn't look at it that way, before!

[Dionysusigma]

Nah. Not much point at all.

Oh, c'mon!:p There's not much point in owning a Porshe(since there are definately more useful, cheaper cars out there) but sometimes, you've gotta have a little fun...:D

[Standing Wolf]

Shhhhh! Don't let Sarah Brady find out about this!

[Mike Irwin]

"Oh, c'mon! There's not much point in owning a Porshe(since there are definately more useful, cheaper cars out there) but sometimes, you've gotta have a little fun..."

Dion,

That's my point entirely. Given the restrictions placed on this BB gun by its price, it's rather limited magazine capacity, and it's power source, I think it would be a case of having VERY little fun....

[444]

"didn't someone used to make full auto bb guns that used freon?"

I have one.

[Mike Irwin]

Don't be coy, 444!

Who made it?

[444]

I don't remember. It is sitting in my dad's basement. I bought it from the magazine ad that you mentioned in about 1981 for I believe $29. I if remember correctly, the ad had a guy in a military uniform complete with helmet and a cigar in his mouth holding the BB gun. It is all plastic. The body of the gun is filled with BBs; it holds something like 3000 BBs. And, as was mentioned it ran off a can of automotive freon. It has no sights. The gun ran OK, but when the freon got cold you lost all power. If you held down the trigger, within about 10 seconds, the BBs would roll out the end of the barrel and fall at your feet. If you held the gun up in front of your face, you could see the BBs coming out in a cone. I remember at the time, you could buy an attachment to hook the gun to an air compressor but I didn't buy it. I wish I would have.
I haven't fired it in 20 years, but I see it sitting there everytime I am there.
As I remember, it had a name like M19 or something like that.
I used to really enjoy scaring our next door neighbor's dog with it. I would feed my dog outside and the neighbor's dog would come over and eat his food. I would open the back door and follow that dog all the way back to his own yard with a hail of BBs. I don't think I ever hit him.

[gun-fucious]

a piper would prolly be more fun:
http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/

[techmike]

You get about 3 mags full from each C02 cart. Mag holds 30 bb's....that is the only thing I don't like about it....lots of reloading.

It is a ton of fun! I would guess around 400-500 fps. Does a heck of a number on tin cans. Good stress relief and I can shoot it in my back yard. If I can get my kids to help me I will post a short vid of it in action. I gave ~$140 for it and don't regret it a bit. I will say I wouldn't have spent $200+ on it but at $150 it is worth it.:D

[Mike Irwin]

How much are the CO2 cylinders going for these days?

[SDC]

This looks like it would be a lot of fun, especially if someone hooked it up to a paintball gun-style CO2 tank.

[cracked butt]

OOh I need one of those. 400 fps might not roll one of them pesky ground squirrels, but I bet a six shot burst of the same might.:D

Has anyone seen the automatic BB guns at a carnival that are hooked up to an air compressor? I always wanted to know where I could get one.

[SDC]

The "carnival" guns are usually Feltman Pneumatics ( http://www.geocities.com/bbmachinegun/review5.htm ), but the manufacturer is out of business; you can sometimes find used ones for sale, though, so keep your eyes open if you're interested. :)

[Destructo6]

Of course, for $150 you could buy a Spyder Imagine paintgun that is semi/3rnd burst/auto, with 12oz CO2 and 200rnd loader. And, you can use it on your friends.

I wonder if it could be adapted to 68ci/4500 compressed air setup...would get a lot more than a few mags and its guts would stay cleaner than CO2.

[DougCxx]

The old full-auto BB guns that ran off of cans of car freon were made by Larc.
~

[cordex]

FWIW, I saw a Drozd at Plainfield Shooters' Supply not too long ago.

[zahc]

Gimme one and I'll find a way to hook it upto a 20oz Co2 with a Palmer Stabilizer and make a big hopper for it. I wonder how it works actually.

[Bigjake]

Ah, palmer regs, "the greatest fighting implement ever devised" (for paintball ;) ) them things do wonders for any paintgun.

Seriously though, after browing through that site with the miniguns, for the price i'd much rather have one that spews .22's that fast!:evil:

[mini14jac]

Sportsman's Guide has them for $199.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=91887

[hso]

Played with one at Guncraft night-before-last and we had a "blast" shooting at maniquins.

[Futo Inu]

My Drodz is a kick in the pants, and was an impulse purchase at $179.99 plus tax at H&H gun range. It really steals the show at the gun range, albeit only shooting at 2 liter bottles at 5-10 yards. Very fun.

[CollinLeon]

Back when the 1 lb freon cans were cheap, the freon powered full auto BB gun sounded like a good idea... Maybe not all that practical due to the minimal velocity that you got out of it... If you could get one that would go full auto with 1000 fps and could hook up to a small SCUBA tank that you could wear on your back, now THAT might be interesting... I'm not sure if the CO2 tanks would give you the necessary velocity, even though buying CO2 in 20 lb refills is definitely cheaper per volume of gas than getting a SCUBA tank refilled.

[il_10]

From the sound of it, the Freon powered guns were basically strafers.
There are a couple companies making them for airsoft and bb gun use:
http://www.xcalibertactical.com/products/strafer/index.html

But if you want one, they're really simple to make yourself. The vortex block is the heart of these things, and you can make them out of whatever material you have around. The rest is just pvc pipe and an air compressor or SCUBA or c02 hookup.

http://kuba-t1000.com/minigun/index.php?akcja=tutorials_airsoft_strafer

The problem with these designs is the ROF. It's uncontrollable, and many consider it to be way too high. Even as cheap as airsoft or .177 bbs are, if you're shooting thousands of them a minute it gets a little pricey. They use compressed air to shoot, but it's also unregulated. They function by building up air pressure in the unit and dumping it straight out the barrel, picking up bbs as they go. It's pretty inefficient. So with a compressed liquid based gas (propane, freon, to a lesser degree c02 etc.), you run into cool-down really quickly, which drops the pressure, which loses you velocity.
I've seen them on airsoft fields mocked up as flamethrowers, which is really more appropriate than a "rifle" build this way. They just spray bb's out, it's not controlled full auto like we think of it.

Also, this thread is from 2003. So there's that.

[Chrontius]

This thread was from 2003... and times have changed.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/08/02/the-gas-sub-machine-gun-gsmg/

P90 style two-stage trigger, cheap magazines with the option to use bulk-fed BBs soon after release, and a paintball style tank in back so you're not eating powerlets like jellybeans. Also so you're not suffering from CO2 cooldown with irritating rapidity... and you can probably use a HPA tank if you own one.

I'd take one of these over the Drozd any day... and I've got an optic and a 4oz Brass Eagle CO2 tank, with their original "I swear it's a stock" caps on it, just waiting for these to get released. :D

[LS240]

Meh. There's a huge selection of more interesting looking fully-automatic airsoft rifles available for less than that, and they actually serve a purpose. You can use them for airsoft games and have a lot more fun than just shooting BBs at targets. They're cheaper to shoot too, with most being electric(no gas to buy and use up), with BBs being cheaper. That's just my opinion at least.

[Flash!]

wow.... this was an old thread revived..... but check out drozdmax.com...... you can do all kinds of cool mods to these including HPA tanks for more power.... I have the blackbird with the full auto mod chip..... lots of fun!

[Whiskey11]

My CO2/HPA powered "BB" gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq0h1Qm49lg

Interesting concept for an airsoft gun, now converted to dual regulator setup. I hate my Palmer's regulator, it's a horribly unreliable regulator. Mine has some horrible machining on the inside and in general is just bad. I will be replacing it when I stop spending money on my R700 (YEAH RIGHT! :D).

That gun is fun and interesting, recoils, tears down like an AR, lower looks like an AR, upper is close to an AR, bolt looks like an AR bolt, even takes some real AR parts (not trigger groups despite how close they are). So close that at one point and time the ATF banned their import for fear of them being converted to fire live ammo which was later disproven. Fun toy, not much more than that.

However, I concur, there are numerous airsoft guns that shoot plastic BB's (of which you can get biodegradable types!) that will do full auto reliably up to about 30 BB's/sec with some upgrades and a quality battery, or you can go the ultra realistic style like I went.

Personally, I've lost my airsoft bug after 6 years of being active in it. Too many kids showing up and their parents leaving us to babysit them. I don't have time to babysit kids for parents so I'm moving away from it. Hence why I just dumped my tax return into the 700 :)

[bozzman3]

http://bb.bbboy.net/straferbbmachinegunownersgroup

[bozzman3]

http://www.mp661k.com/

[bozzman3]

http://www.drozdmax.com/

[fcthompson]

Automatic BB guns (hand cranked) used to be sold in adds in the back of comic books (1950's) and you could attach it to your bicycle handle bars.

[Logan5]

I bought my Drozd just because of that, the long, long drought between when the one I forget the name of (Green gas, Capstick did a write up, they used to sell them in the Guns&Ammo classifieds?) and the next burst capable BB gun I saw. The Red Ryder is still the most fun BB gun I own, just because the Drozd has you fooling with 12 grams, AA batteries, and reloading the spring loaded BB magazine, but the Drozd is 2nd. Of course, I haven't tried that Umarex Steel Storm, and now there's the Drozd Blackbird with the 400 round hopper, and a couple more along the same lines.

ETA: The M-19A, that's the one I was thinking of.

[frankenstein406]

My CO2/HPA powered "BB" gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq0h1Qm49lg

Interesting concept for an airsoft gun, now converted to dual regulator setup. I hate my Palmer's regulator, it's a horribly unreliable regulator. Mine has some horrible machining on the inside and in general is just bad. I will be replacing it when I stop spending money on my R700 (YEAH RIGHT! :D).

That gun is fun and interesting, recoils, tears down like an AR, lower looks like an AR, upper is close to an AR, bolt looks like an AR bolt, even takes some real AR parts (not trigger groups despite how close they are). So close that at one point and time the ATF banned their import for fear of them being converted to fire live ammo which was later disproven. Fun toy, not much more than that.

However, I concur, there are numerous airsoft guns that shoot plastic BB's (of which you can get biodegradable types!) that will do full auto reliably up to about 30 BB's/sec with some upgrades and a quality battery, or you can go the ultra realistic style like I went.

Personally, I've lost my airsoft bug after 6 years of being active in it. Too many kids showing up and their parents leaving us to babysit them. I don't have time to babysit kids for parents so I'm moving away from it. Hence why I just dumped my tax return into the 700 :)
Go aka if you want a good reg. sindwinder is amazing. use an adjustable hpa tank reg and a good reg. pm if you need help.