[Skunkabilly]

Um. OK stupid question. Does aluminum rust? My P7 seems to rust pretty easily but my Beretta doesn't. Maybe it's the magical carbon fiber grips?

[Norm357]

Nope. Did you know that you look like Harry potter?


Norm

[Skunkabilly]

Yes, a cross between Chow Yun Fat and Harry Potter. Harry Potter isn't Chinese nor does he pack a Beretta :p

[bogie]

Aluminum oxidizes, so yes, technically, it rusts.

[willyjixx]

not in the sense of oxidizing. but it does detiorate/corrode. usually a whitish powder or flaking

[Norm357]

Yes, a cross between Chow Yun Fat and Harry Potter. Harry Potter isn't Chinese nor does he pack a Beretta




Im worried cause my 9 yr old daughter says your cute:uhoh:


Norm

[Chipperman]

NO.
Rust is oxidation specifically of Iron or Steel.
Aluminum can oxidize, but is neither Iron or Steel

[Skunkabilly]

Cute??

Which picture the Riotnerd (with the MP5, shield and helmet) or the Tactical Poser one?

[Norm357]

Tactical poser

[Kharn]

Norm357:
Please head over to the Shotgun forum for a discussion on Mossberg 590A1 (with bayonet) vs Walmart Special Remington 870 with regards to keeping the boys away.

Skunk:
:neener:

Kharn

[AZ Husker]

What's next, autographed photos? :scrutiny:

[P95Carry]

Steel and aluminium both corrode .... majority of things do .... their procuction, involving reduction, means they will oxidize to try and get back to what they were!

However ..... aluminium is usefully, very good at self protection .... the oxide film forms almost instantly but once formed provides a very good barrier to further corrosion ..... much more so than steel. ''Anodizing'' is in fact a controlled oxidation process thru electrolyic means that deposits a layer of ''intentional'' and often pigmented oxide ... very good protection.

Cl- ions are amongst worst for Al .... usually leading to the white spotty powder deposits .... in fact all halogens are pretty aggressive.

I have found that high grade buffing on Al ..... will not only produce a great finish and shine but also confers longer lasting retention of brightness.

[willyjixx]

post a link i cant find that ???

[Kharn]

Willyjixx:
There isnt one, but if Norm357 wants one could always get started.

Kharn

[jthuang]

Skunk = Harry Potter???

Maybe if we gave Harry a carbon fiber wand and more dueling/Defense Against Dark Arts lessons with Professor Lockhart. Charlie Schumer can play Lord Voldemort.

[Skunkabilly]

And California legal muggle brakes (flash suppressors are prohibido)

[submin]

I believe gold is the only metal that doesn't rust/oxidize.

I'm still trying to picture Harry Potter with a banjo. :D

[Mike Irwin]

Rust is more specific of ferrous (iron and steel) oxidation, but it can be used as a general term for metallic oxidation.

Aluminum oxidizes almost immediately upon exposure to air into a very tough, durable coating.

Gold will oxidize, but it is a process that requires a lot of steps and chemicals. It's not as simple as exposing it to air and water.

[MeekandMild]

Skunk, this "tough very durable coating" is one of the hardest substances known to man, except for the heart of an ex-wife. If the aluminum is wet with salt water, as in sweat or water splashing up over the boat transom the coating can become very rough, irregular and deep.

Aluminum Oxide, also known as corundum, is the substance which coats sandpaper and which is also used to make into grinding wheels.

An aluminum cleaning rod can scratch really deep scratches into a steel barrel, especiallyt the soft steel found in some .22 barrels.

:confused:

[PenHolder]

As others have pointed out, it depends on what you call "rust". Aluminum does oxidize on contact with air, as iron does. The aluminum metal at the surface bonds with oxygen to form aluminum oxide. If you consider rusting to be "metal corrosion by oxidation", then yes it rusts. If you consider rusting to be "metal corrosion by oxidation which forms iron oxides", then no it doesn't rust.

Practically speaking, it's not nearly as big of a headache as it is with, say, iron. When iron oxidizes, it creates a weak oxide layer that readily flakes away to admit more oxygen which promptly gets to work on the remaining iron underneath. (There's a little more to it than that; moisture speeds up the process, since it provides a better electron-transfer medium, salt water especially so.) When aluminum oxidizes, the oxide layer is much more tenacious, and serves in a way to insulate the remaining aluminum underneath, so much so that structural degradation isn't usually a concern for things like guns.

(Note: I am not a materials scientist, though I did watch Law and Order once.)

-PH

[BigG]

...one of the hardest substances known to man, except for the heart of an ex-wife. :uhoh: ain't that the truth! :uhoh:

[Navy joe]

not in the sense of oxidizing. but it does detiorate/corrode. usually a whitish powder or flaking

That grey to white powder is aluminum oxide, so yes it oxidizes.

WRT to guns, most all aluminum is anodized and is usually no worries. If you were to get a bare section like a frame cut or screw hole then you could get some corrosion issues if exposed to things like body sweat. Speaking of anodizing, in most common uses aluminum will be the anode in most commonly encountered corrosion cells. It has a high galvanic potential. In practical use that mainly means it is susceptible to dissimilar metal corrosion. If you are installing grip screws into aluminum or an aluminum scope mount or what have you a barrier lube on the screws can help. Not likely a problem unless you take your gun into a lot of corrosive enviroments.

Most likely screw-up is in cleaning. Simple Green is absolute death on aluminum, don't use it.

[MagKnightX]

Although it has been sort of said before, rust is only the brown stuff on iron. Steel itself doesn't rust, the iron in steel rusts. So no, aluminum doesn't rust. Are there steel parts in your gun? Those could rust.

And if you're worrying about the aluminum oxidizing, get it anodized. When it's anodized, not only does it have a very hard finish, but you can have it died pretty much any color.

[Mike Irwin]

MagKnight,

Steel IS iron. It's iron that has been modified with certain percentages of carbon to give it properties that iron doesn't normally have. So yeah, steel rusts. Because steel is iron.

Other metals, such as nickle, vanadium, chromium, etc., are added to give other properties that steel/iron doesn't possess.

[mattd]

What kind of lube do you use on the gun? I hope you an't using graphite.

[Skunkabilly]

I'm using Breakfree CLP

[MagKnightX]

Mike,

Steel ISN'T iron. It is a compound of iron, carbon, and a few other materials that strengthens it. Steel CONTAINS iron. Water isn't hydrogen, even though it contains a lot of hydrogen.

[goalie]

My Aluminum dock and boat lift have some white corrosion on the parts underwater for 4 months of the year, but not "rust" to speak of.

[seeker_two]

Im worried cause my 9 yr old daughter says your cute


Skunk: I know I said that you need a girlfriend, but this isn't what I meant... :uhoh:

And YES, aluminum can rust (more technically it corrodes). Just bury a cola can 1/4 way full of water in your backyard. Dig it up in a week or two. You'll see.

As for your guns, I'd look toward a better finish for them. Robar has NP3 that's supposed to be great for your climate...

I could see Skunk as Harry Potter. But I can also see him as Frodo in LOTR. Of course, Frodo wouldn't need the ring (b/c he's naturally invisible to the bad guys...:D )

[Skunkabilly]

Here's the riot nerd picture.
http://www.skunkabilly.com/images/tactical/riotnerd.jpg

Did I mention I may move to Georgia next year? :evil:

[Mike Irwin]

MagKnight,

Yeah, you're right. Steel's a compound created by the introduction of another element, carbon...

[Norm357]

Did I mention I may move to Georgia next year?




Jeez!:cuss: Now where did I put that Mossberg?:D


Norm

[Stickjockey]

Great. Skunk's got himself a fan club. When's the K-Tel album comin' out?;)

[telomerase]

>An aluminum cleaning rod can scratch really deep scratches into a steel barrel, especiallyt the soft steel found in some .22 barrels.

Right. And if you forget that aluminum oxide is harder than glass and scrape ice off your windshield with a pop can, you'll scratch your windshield! Um... not that I was ever dumb enough to do that..

[SodaPop]

Aluminum oxidizes, so yes, technically, it rusts.

Skunk, If you had a decent telescope you'd know that you need to re-aluminize the mirror every few years. Air does bad things to aluminuminummy.

[Skunkabilly]

So if I stopped breathing all over my Beretta, she'll be safe? :p

[dsgrntldPW]

That, and stop using them as eating utensils everytime you misplace your chopsticks.:D

[daniel (australia)]

Actually steel isn't a compound at all, though many steels contain compounds of varous sorts. Steels by and large are mixtures. In plain carbon steels carbon dissolves in iron to about .05% or so by weight (to form what metallurgists call ferrite). Excess carbon forms iron carbide (cementite), so your typical medium-carbon steel contains a mixture of the two - the precise stucture and therefore properties of the mixture can be manipulated by heat treatment. Alloying elements have varying effects, either by forming solutions or other compounds.

Microstructure isn't only important to mechanical properties either - in fact microstructure can play a significant role in corrosion behaviour, among other things.

As for aluminium, I have seen it rusty, but that was as a result of being buffed with a wheel previously used on steel, impregnnating the surface. Other than that, as has been said above, in most situations and most aluminium alloys a thin oxide layer quickly forms but then protects the underlying metal.

[hso]

I've got a little bit more to add to what daniel (australia) had to say. The oxide layer on Al that forms acts as a passivation layer blocking O and prevents futher oxidation of the Al underneath. A similar process occurs with "stainless" steels, but in this case it is the formation of Cr and Ni oxides, with a reduction in Fe, in the surface layer that makes "stainless" effective. The biggest problem with steels subject to rust is that the iron oxide doesn't bind strongly to the the iron substrate making a weak "flakey" surface and the oxygen diffuses into the iron substrate.

[MeekandMild]

But the oxidation layer only blocks further oxidation as long as the aluminum is not exposed to salt water. The salt water will strip away any aluminum which is in electrical contact with a more "noble" metal such as iron or copper.

[cool45auto]

Did I mention I may move to Georgia next year?
Come on out, buddy!:D