Lock free S&W 642's on the way


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Thaddeus Jones
July 17, 2008, 11:40 AM
Finally some good revolver news from S&W.

There will be 4000 lock free 642's made by S&W. RSR will be distributing them to FFL's

Would any of you S&W apologists who have sworn the "lock is here to stay" like some salt on that crow?

Perhaps the "few purists" ;), like myself, who have refused to buy new S&W's have had an impact on S&W sales.

In any case I will be buying one. I will also buy any other useful LOCK FREE revolver they produce.

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Shade00
July 17, 2008, 11:52 AM
Hmm. How do I get my hands on one of these?

Hawk
July 17, 2008, 12:06 PM
Perhaps the "few purists" , like myself, who have refused to buy new S&W's have had an impact on S&W sales.
If we're patting ourselves on the back here, how about those of us that bought the new 40s without the lock?

I'd bet they noticed the sales of the 40 a lot more than something they didn't sell.

Green Lantern
July 17, 2008, 12:25 PM
I will also buy any other useful LOCK FREE revolver they produce

WILL they produce more??? I hope so!

I'm glad now that I didn't have the cash to spend on one earlier! :D

FranklyTodd
July 17, 2008, 12:28 PM
I'm glad my M&P340 has the lock. If they now make it without the lock, I will not care. I will not care. I will not care.

Ok, I tried to convince myself - didn't work!

fastbolt
July 17, 2008, 12:31 PM
I heard this release of non-ILS 642's is the result of S&W clearing out some old parts stock which could be assembled into a limited number of this model J-frame.

As far as rumor control is concerned, I've been unable to confirm a previously heard rumor that S&W corporate has been debating making limited releases of some revolver models without the ILS, just to see how the market reacts ...

It would be a nice thought.

rdrancher
July 17, 2008, 01:04 PM
Wow, a new Smith without an IL or grip safety?

I may have to change my mind on the "I ain't ever going to buy a new Smith" thinking.

Nice!

rd

Phydeaux642
July 17, 2008, 01:35 PM
I just got off the phone with my LGS whose distributor is RSR. He is getting a price for me and as long as it's not something goofy I will have one on order today. I will update on pricing for my neck of the woods when I hear something.

Gary A
July 17, 2008, 01:38 PM
RSR Group is the distributor that issued a run of no-lock, no MIM Model 37-2s a couple years ago. I bought a couple of them. They were on the old pre-+P frame. Rumors were they were an over-run of an overseas sale or (and more credibly IMO) they were "parts" guns made from older parts. Whatever they were, they were immaculate. I love mine and one rests in my pocket as I type. It'll be interesting to see if this is the same kind of special-run, distributor-only sale or if it is S&W testing the waters.

Shade00
July 17, 2008, 02:08 PM
Righto. If these are available immediately I will be making a trip to the gun store tomorrow. Might have to trade my model 36, but I never shoot it and I would love to have one of these 642s for carry...

Hawk
July 17, 2008, 02:23 PM
Jeff Quinn says 4,000 of 'em coming out - posted at S&W forum.

Let's make sure those 4,000 don't languish on shelves.

Phydeaux642
July 17, 2008, 03:50 PM
I went ahead and ordered one and the price is $425 at my LGS. He said RSR doesn't have them yet.

Let's make sure those 4,000 don't languish on shelves.

I don't see that happening, but I've been wrong before.

Green Lantern
July 17, 2008, 06:32 PM
I'm glad my M&P340 has the lock. If they now make it without the lock, I will not care. I will not care. I will not care.

Ok, I tried to convince myself - didn't work!

Yeah, just the lock does not bother me....in fact, it could come in handy at times.

BUT what turned me on the concept was the possibility that the lock could "engage" by itself when the gun is being shot...

An annoyance while practicing, but something much MORE "on the street!" :uhoh:

Gary A
July 17, 2008, 08:49 PM
What I have never understood about the Smith ILS is that is is designed so that if it fails, if fails in the locked position. The little spring keeps it unlocked, not locked. So, should the spring fail, the weapon locks by default. I don't understand a default to locked. Defaulting to unlocked if the spring failed would make some sense to me but that is not what they did, apparently. If it defaulted to unlocked you would still have a weapon whose safety lock is broken and needs to be fixed. Defaulting to locked means you have no weapon if the safety lock breaks. Why design something on a weapon that defaults to locked if a small part fails? That just seems so weirdly backward to me. It's probably not a big deal but it sure is weird thinking to me. "Gee, lets design a weapon that is inoperable if the safety lock fails." :confused:

Guy B. Meredith
July 17, 2008, 08:53 PM
Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!! Will these be California legal?:banghead:

Waldo Pepper
July 18, 2008, 07:47 AM
They have a aluminum frame so I doubt they will, unless the current 642 is legal.

Shear_stress
July 18, 2008, 07:55 AM
They have a aluminum frame so I doubt they will, unless the current 642 is legal.

Huh? Legality is determined by drop test (i.e. "California Extortion Tax"). Has nothing to do with frame material.

Fingolfin
July 18, 2008, 10:51 AM
I went ahead and ordered one and the price is $425 at my LGS.

That seems reasonable, especially from a B&M shop.

rodinal220
July 18, 2008, 06:13 PM
Will they have barstock/forged internals or MIM??

Matt-J2
July 18, 2008, 07:44 PM
Plastic, actually. S&W has decided the only acceptable safe solution to not having an internal locking device is to have lockwork that degrades so rapidly that it won't be possible to shoot it more than a few rounds.
S&W has decided their firearms are for collecting, and not shooting. Any future firearm produced that can be shot multiple times will have sales and service restricted to only the most tactical operators in the land. Which, of course, means not us. Prices on both styles of firearm will be raised accordingly. It's for our own good really, since we suck and S&W hates us. If this comes as a surprise to anyone, then feel ashamed. We all saw this coming with the release of a line of revolvers with accessory rails.
By all means, feel free to proceed with the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

226
July 19, 2008, 06:26 AM
RSR Group is the distributor that issued a run of no-lock, no MIM Model 37-2s a couple years ago. I bought a couple of them. They were on the old pre-+P frame. Rumors were they were an over-run of an overseas sale or (and more credibly IMO) they were "parts" guns made from older parts. Whatever they were, they were immaculate. I love mine and one rests in my pocket as I type. It'll be interesting to see if this is the same kind of special-run, distributor-only sale or if it is S&W testing the waters.

More good news from S&W--another batch of no-lock M37's shipping this month! (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/1041066313), smith-wesonforum member DC7. These will be no-lock, no-MIM, and rated +P.

My dealer called RSR today to inquire about the availability of the no-lock 642's mentioned in another thread, and they gave him some unexpected good news: another 200 bobbed-hammer Model 37's are expected to arrive this month! Only three were currently in stock, so he bought them all and should have them by tomorrow. All three have DAC-prefix serial numbers (just like the ones I bought from the batch of 1200 built in '05) and they're using the same product code as the '05 run, so it sounds like the new guns will be the same pre-lock, pre-MIM, +P rated revolvers built on the original non-magnum J-frame.

Here is the S&W product sheet, which shows the new launch date of July 2008:

http://i37.tinypic.com/2vuwpbp.jpg


Couple of s&w forum threads about the last run of no-lock bobbed-hammer M37s:

Model 37-2 info request (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/1171030503/p/1)

How many here have a 37-2? (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/7651048872/p/1)

zzz

jad0110
July 19, 2008, 08:04 AM
^^^ Surpising that they wouldn't show a picture of the OTHER side :confused: .

Lets all hope they are testing the waters, and that these models are all bought up before they have a chance to even touch the shelves.

Gary A
July 19, 2008, 08:54 AM
226 - That is good news about the 37-2. I've got mine but someone who regrets missing out last time might have a chance to rectify things. I'm very pleased with mine.

BlkHawk73
July 19, 2008, 08:56 AM
I believe these are to be a distributor run as they're exclusive to RSR. All the distributors do such special contracted runs by the manufacturers.

Shade00
July 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
Very cool. Now I need to decide if I can afford one or both - just last night I was thinking about bobbing the hammer on my current 37, so I don't really need another one of those...

ugaarguy
July 19, 2008, 03:53 PM
I believe these are to be a distributor run as they're exclusive to RSR. All the distributors do such special contracted runs by the manufacturers.
The no lock 642s are the production from a canceled export order. In addition to RSR, Lipsey's and one other distributor (can't remember who) will be getting them.

fastbolt
July 19, 2008, 04:58 PM
Some further personal thoughts since the 37-2's were mentioned ...

Notice the product code technical specifications lists the caliber as .38 S&W Special ... not .38 +P, as S&W does for the model 637 - http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=14761&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15704

I bought one of the earlier production run 37-2's made with the older frames that were mentioned.

The barrel on mine was not marked with the +P language, but was marked .38 S&W Spl.

Having read the earlier debate among the various internet firearms forums about whether those 37's in that limited run were rated for +P use, I called S&W and asked someone in Customer Service.

Their initial answer was that they were rated for +P.

I asked for some further clarification, such as what exactly made them able to withstand the increased pressure of +P ammunition. The improved metallurgy and design changes incorporated into the newer Airweight models (identified with the integral cylinder stop versus the older installed machined stud) was explained.

But my 37-2 was the older frame, though, I pointed out. I asked if that older frame had been modified in any way to incorporate the 'improvements' mentioned, making it somehow stronger and suitable for +P usage.

The fact that some of the limited run of special production 37-2's had been assembled with +P marked barrels, and some with barrels marked just .38 S&W Spl., was discussed. I wondered if that was simply because some 442-1 barrels had been used for the overseas order, where presumably it wouldn't matter since +P ammunition apparently wasn't anticipated being used by the oringinal intended customer, anyway, so maybe for convenience some 442-1 +P marked barrels had been used along with the regular 37 barrels. The rep didn't know.

The CS rep finally hesitated. I was asked if I would be willing to wait while Production was consulted to answer my question. No problem.

A little while later the rep came back on the line and said that the head of Production had stated that the 37-2's were not considered rated for +P ammunition. I was further told that no standard model 37's had ever been produced on the stronger improved frame yet ... and only the model 637's were presently rated for +P ammunition ... and that the model 37 was tentatively slated for upgrading, like the 637 had received, at some point in the future. (Note that it's not listed in the current catalog at this time.)

What's it mean? Dunno ... aside from that there was apparently some confusion and potential communication issues occurring regarding the limited run of 37-2's that were diverted to the commercial market back then.

Now, when I called and asked about the supposed 4,000-odd limited run of non-ILS 642's being discussed on the internet, I was told that they were just the result of some cleaning out of a lot of parts & components in the factory's parts inventory stock. I wasn't told anything about some canceled special order. Maybe what I was told was correct ... Dunno. It's probably not fair to expect that everyone who answers a phone has all the information about everything involved with their company. Any company. Not the first time I've had to wait while someone in customer service for different firearms companies had to put me on hold and consult with someone else, or transfer me to someone more knowledgeable regarding a specific subject.

If I didn't already own a 642-1 produced on the improved frame and marked as rated for +P ... and the ones being assembled and shipped are 642-1's rated for +P ammunition ... I'd pick one up.

I'm thinking my next J-frame will be one of the steel model 40's, though. No ILS and I'd like another steel J-frame. I already have 3 Airweights.

A second 642-1 rated for +P would be tempting, though. ;)

BTW, I do like the 37-2 I picked up. Nice action. Accurate. I only use standard pressure ammunition, though.

Just my thoughts.

226
July 19, 2008, 10:31 PM
Not trying to slam anyone, just getting the information out.

smith-wessonforum member DC7's reply to fastbolt's post above (same post posted on s&W forum):

"Fastbolt: Sounds like they gave you bad info (http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/1041066313?r=5491019313#5491019313). SCSW says the Model 37 went to the J-magnum frame in 1997, and was built on that stronger frame until 2002. If the rep you spoke to (and the head of production?!?) didn't even know about magnum-frame Model 37's that they built for half a decade, I don't think I'd take their word about the 37-2 being +P rated or not.

In my opinion, the simple fact that S&W sold lots of 37-2's in the last batch with +P markings pretty well confirms that the guns were indeed +P rated. S&W always seems to take an overly-conservative approach to use of high-pressure ammo in their guns, so I doubt that they would ever sell guns marked +P if they weren't actually rated for that ammunition."

fastbolt
July 20, 2008, 12:31 AM
No 'slam' perceived.

My response, though ...

Maybe, maybe not.

Opinions notwithstanding, I received contradictory information when I called and asked someone to look into it for me.

Do you consider the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson to be definitive, complete and without unintended mistake of fact?

Even the factory can't keep its parts catalogs and some other written sources complete, current and without the occasional error. (Not to mention perhaps keeping all of its customer service staff fully informed and current when it comes to all models. ;) )

FWIW, I thought I recalled the last time the M37 appeared in the website catalog that it listed the caliber as .38 S&W Special, and not .38 +P as was listed in the description of the M637 at the same time. (Not that the website hasn't contained mistakes.)

Then, there's the S&W Product Sheet for this limited release M37 which lists the caliber as only being .38 Special. Maybe it's accurate?

On the other hand, I also have a 2004 S&W brochure which lists the 37 as being in production, available and rated for +P in that year. (Then again, like there haven't been mistakes which have made it past editors & proof-readers into brochures. ;) I remember the wrong weight being listed for a model I was considering one time, too. I could see how easy it might be to leave off, or add, the +P designation to the .38 Special caliber language and have it missed. Having so many J-frame models produced in .38 Spl which are rated for +P might make it easy to miss mark a technical description section, though, when info is proofed and approved.)

Hey, I've received my fair share of mistaken information from folks at various firearms companies upon occasion, including S&W. I understand that it can happen. I've had to call back and speak to someone else in order to get corrected information on various issues, and I'm sure I'll have to do so again at some point.

The only thing of which I'm sure is that my model 37-2's barrel doesn't list the +P designation, but my 642-1's barrel does. Also, my 37-2 has the older 'short frame' (or 'pre-Magnum' frame if you prefer) ... while my 642-1 has the long frame.

The rep seemed confident toward the end of my call they had received the best info after calling over to Production, and even mentioned that maybe they should stop telling people that those particular guns were +P rated. If someone were to experience a damaged 37 from that run of 37's because of the use of +P ammunition, and the barrel on their particular 37 had the +P language, I suspect that S&W would cheerfully replace their gun with another one.

I sure don't claim to have the definitive answer to this subject, though. :)

Maybe anyone interested in these guns, and whether +P ammunition is approved for use in them, ought to consider calling the factory themselves and satisfying their own curiosity, as well as examining their particular gun received and seeing whether the caliber markings on the barrel displays the standard .38 S&W Special or .38 S&W SPL +P. Easy enough to do.

When it comes right down to it, however, wouldn't you think that being able to buy a NIB 37-2 sans ILS and without MIM parts ... even if it wasn't rated for +P ammunition ... would still be a nice addition to a collection?

Gary A
July 20, 2008, 02:33 AM
Having also tried to research and follow the small debate on the 37-2s, I have decided to treat mine as not rated for +P. (Others will do as they see fit.) They have none of the earmarks of the +P versions as I have come to understand them, larger frame, radiused corners of the cylinder window, integral cylinder stop, and (I believe) a somewhat thicker top strap. Would I hesitate to load and fire +P in the gun to save my hide? Absolutely not. Do I shoot +P rounds through mine? No. I have a good supply of the old Federal Nyclad 125 grain standard pressure load. I absolutely do believe the very good 135 grain short-barrel load from Speer is too hot for them. Speer claims at least 20,000 psi for that load, per their technical specs. When the Model 37 was designed the upper limit for +P was 18,500 psi. Many today say it has raised to 20,000 psi but that does not mean an alloy J-frame designed in the era of 18,500 is appropriate to fire them over the longer haul. They are beautiful little guns and I see no reason to abuse them based upon conjecture with little or no conclusive information. To me, checking different sources (especially on internet forums) only until I get the answer I want is not sufficient evidence of +P worthiness especially since I purchased them on my nickel, not someone else's. It will be interesting to see if the 642s are old frame or new frame. They sound good.

When it comes right down to it, however, wouldn't you think that being able to buy a NIB 37-2 sans ILS and without MIM parts ... even if it wasn't rated for +P ammunition ... would still be a nice addition to a collection?


Absolutely.

The_Shootist
July 20, 2008, 03:00 AM
If non-lock 642's are available - I'll be at my favorite gunship Monday 9am to check this out.

I thought my upcoming weeks holidays were gonna be boring - mayb e not!

226
July 20, 2008, 02:31 PM
I don't know if I'll shoot only standard pressure or +P through my bobbed-hammer M37 when I get it. I'll check out the frame though, and if it has the elongated cylinder stop, it'll be the j-magnum frame (that magnum frame pic #2 is an Airlite of course).

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8969/standardjframeqb7.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standardjframeqb7.jpg)http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2744/magnumjframeai3.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnumjframeai3.jpg)

fastbolt
July 20, 2008, 02:47 PM
All this talk of limited releases of non-ILS 37-2's and whatever revision number the 642's may be has gotten me to thinking about looking around for a 638 again.

I've always had a fondness for the Bodyguard model and would like to have a lightweight version to complement my older 649. My preference would be to find one in excellent condition made 'pre-ILS', but also made on the longer frame and rated for +P.

Anybody know off-hand which model number revision that might be?

Lacking finding one which fills that criteria, I'm inclined to pick up a M40 made without the ILS, even though it's all-steel.

Still like to have a 638 made w/o the ILS and rated for +P, though. ;)

226
July 20, 2008, 03:12 PM
638-2 in 1996 first saw the j-magnum frame. 638-3 in 2002 introduced the ils.

fastbolt
July 21, 2008, 01:56 AM
Thanks.

I think I'm going to add the pre-ILS 638 (specifically the 638-2) to my short list of used S&W's I'd like to find sitting in the used display case in some small gun store. I plan to leave CA sometime next year (after retirement), and hope to find more of a selection of used guns in the state in which I retire.

A late production model 6906 is on that short list, too, although I could certainly make do with one of the early production models as long as the major components are in good enough condition. I'd likely replace some of the smaller parts with some of the newer revised/improved parts, anyway.

Wouldn't mind picking up a late production 5906 for simple range enjoyment, either, or even a late production 5906TSW after the 9mm caliber marking on the barrel hood changed from small to large alpha/numerals (slight change in the chamber walls shape, if I recall).

And I don't want to even get started on what I'd like to do when it comes to filling in some gaps in my revolver collection when it comes to K&L frames. ;)

At least I finally got my Colt collection about where it satisfies me now ... meaning I own 4 of them. Not a lot, but enough for my needs.

only1asterisk
July 21, 2008, 03:01 AM
J frame S&W's are of no particular use to me, but I hope these sell. Maybe if these sell well, S&W might find it in their heartscorporate interest to make some lock-free MIM-free K and N frames.

David

ArchAngelCD
July 21, 2008, 10:03 PM
My LGS called RSR today to order a non-ILS M642 for me. His rep told him he is getting 700 in tomorrow, Tuesday 7/22/08 and of the 700 coming in only 7 are still available. (well, now only 6 since mine is also shipping tomorrow) It looks like the word got out fast since all but 6 of the 700 are sold before RSR even got them in.

Like I said, they are receiving an order of 700 from S&W on 7/22/08 and will be shipping to the LGS the same day. I should have my NO LOCK M642 by Thursday.

Now if they would only produce some no-lock M638's I would be very happy. I would have bought a M638 instead of the M642 it it was available since the Bodyguard frame is my favorite J frame.

I've been looking for a M38-3 or M638-2 for the past 6 months without any luck. I'm glad I saw this thread and was able to order before they were all gone. It's not a Bodyguard but it's a very close second...

The_Shootist
July 22, 2008, 12:05 PM
Ordered mine today. dealer was pretty confident could be picked up by Thursday.

Now the REAL fun begins - new grips - new holster - new load (probably BB Standard pressure .38's).

tilden
July 22, 2008, 12:23 PM
My FFL has the Lock Free 642 for $419, including S&H. Is this a good price?

The_Shootist
July 22, 2008, 12:34 PM
Yeah it is - price range $419 - $ 429 seem to be the going rate. Paid $ 429 for mine. Without the locak, its worth it, my first Smith in 10 yrs.

Correia
July 22, 2008, 02:27 PM
I just got off the phone with my RSR rep. I've got 3 on the way.

Phydeaux642
July 22, 2008, 04:56 PM
My LGS called me today and mine will be here tomorrow.:D I'm glad that I ordered early.

Phydeaux642
July 23, 2008, 03:08 PM
I just picked up my new no-lock 642. It is marked 642-1, MIM trigger, DCMxxxx serial number, funky looking crown like most of these little guns have now and dirty as heck around the forcing cone. No pimple, though.:D

johnnylaw53
July 23, 2008, 07:20 PM
ok i may have to eat some crow here, i have stated a couple of times that the lock don't really bug me that much my 642 have never given me any problems and I do think that the people that blame everything bad on the lock just want to fuss about something. Now that a no lock 642 can be had I'm thinking maybe that a good thing. Talked to the guy at the gun shop today and he have several coming in his price is 475.00 and have offer me 350.00 for mine 642. so i'm thinking about it I guess the question is, is it worth 125.00 to have one without the lock? If i decide to let the money goes i guess that mean the lock bug me more then I wanted to admit. Need to make my mind up by Friday that when he expect them in.

be safe

Downrange
July 23, 2008, 07:31 PM
I think I'd just shop for a slightly older J frame and save a few bucks. It's tempting, but I just got a new one with lock recently. I don't think it's worth 125.00 loss for a very low probability malfunction, personally.

ArchAngelCD
July 23, 2008, 10:11 PM
I ordered my revolver on Monday, RSR Group got their initial delivery of 700 on Tuesday and shipped the same day. I picked up my revolver today (Wed.) at 5:00 PM. Since my dealer ordered only 1 gun he didn't get as good a price as some of the other here since you don't get the better prices unless you make an order of $800 or more. My revolver cost me $432 +tax which still isn't that bad IMO. BTW, on Monday after I placed my order there were only 6 M642's left of the 700 that were coming in on Tuesday. As of Tuesday all 700 were already sold so there are NONE currently available for delivery unless you got 1 of the 6 that were still available on Monday.

BTW, you will see from the serial # these are new revolvers manufactured in 2008, not old stock. This M642 is on the Magnum J frame, has a MIM trigger, is rated for +P ammo and has NO LOCK! :neener:
Here ya go:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/M642-1.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/M642-2.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/M642-3.jpg

Shade00
July 23, 2008, 10:14 PM
It looks..... so smooth without the lock!

pharmer
July 23, 2008, 10:16 PM
Truly a thing of beauty. Hope I get one before they go away. That is, unless S&W actually responds to consumers desire. Joe

226
July 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
From the dealer that sold me a NIB bobbed hammer M37 (eta: DiscountGunDealer.com (http://discountgundealer.com/index.html) has 1 M37-2 and 6 642-1s left)::
I have attached some pictures of your gun to help with the questions. .38 SPL +P, 37-2, the date code to the right of the serial # is 8190, which means the gun was assembled the 190th day of 2008. The cylinder stop can be seen in picture 5 (sorry it is a little out of focus). Hope this helps.
Pictures that he took while awaiting my personal check. I'm talking about a GREAT dealer. Simply beautiful. NIB Smith & Wesson Model 37-2, post-MIM, post-Internal lock:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8383/picture001zb3.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001zb3.jpg)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3891/picture002hw5.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture002hw5.jpg)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7409/picture003wd9.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture003wd9.jpg)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1599/picture004ay9.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004ay9.jpg)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/788/picture005kx3.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture005kx3.jpg)

Matt-J2
July 23, 2008, 10:24 PM
I must admit, it does look rather nice without the lock there.

rxraptor02
July 23, 2008, 10:28 PM
I picked up a used 37-2, bobbed hammer, no lock, non mag frame last fall.


I hope I can come across one of these or maybe two.

ArchAngelCD
July 23, 2008, 10:41 PM
The older M37-2 revolvers that are floating around were made in 2005. S&W made 1,200 of them to use up their spare parts. RSR Group just released 200 more that were made this year but they are all gone already.

Phydeaux642
July 23, 2008, 10:56 PM
Hey, ArchAngelCD

Was your new pimple-free 642 as dirty as mine was right out of the box? My dealer told me that that was nothing compared to what Taurus revolvers look like out of the box. They had just got mine in when I went to pick it up and had not cleaned it up or checked it in yet.

ChrisVV
July 23, 2008, 11:19 PM
< Another guy who will not own a smith and wesson gunshaped lock. I saw you could get those lemon squeezers with out a lock.

Rugerlvr
July 24, 2008, 12:42 AM
I stopped in at FBMG and pre-paid for one of the ones Correia mentioned ordering above... :D

I GOT MINE! :D :D

ArchAngelCD
July 24, 2008, 04:31 AM
Phydeaux642,
It wasn't that dirty but you could tell the factory fired rounds from all 5 cylinders. One patch through the barrel and a little extra work needed on the charge holes and it was good to go. When I removed the side plate to inspect the inners I was surprised to see no metal filings at all. All and all the gun was very clean...

I pulled the trigger well over 500 times tonight (using snap-caps) and the trigger smoothed right out which was the same results I got with my M638 when I did the same a few years back.

The_Shootist
July 24, 2008, 09:35 AM
Ordered mine Tues - so i wait nervously for "the call" from my gunshop that its in and I'm one of the initial lucky ones. Supposedly today.

Maybe I've already jinxed myself by ordering already a set of Rosewood Secredt Service grips and a new Mika holster. :scrutiny:

Captain38
July 24, 2008, 12:16 PM
Mu current favorite FFL just advised me MY new lock-less 642 SHOULD arrive early tomorrow afternoon!

I'm glad I called HIM to let him know they were available, otherwise, it PROBABLY wouldn't have happened.

226
July 24, 2008, 11:30 PM
Here's my 642-1 post-lock at my dealer awaiting my payment:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7245/picture030zg0.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture030zg0.jpg)

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7599/picture031yr9.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture031yr9.jpg)

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5278/picture032cj3.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture032cj3.jpg)

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4278/picture033pt4.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture033pt4.jpg)

j_charles
July 24, 2008, 11:47 PM
Are there any of these left? And how long are they likely to stick around?

DawgFvr
July 24, 2008, 11:52 PM
Ok...replace the MIM parts and maybe, I'll trade my lock 642 in on one. Whish they would make the barrel a bit longer as well...since I can only hit a target about as far as I can throw the weapon as it stands. The only reason I keep this revolver is because nobody else makes one that slips so easily into the front pocket.

outerlimit
July 25, 2008, 12:11 AM
I would love a post lock scandium 357. I wont own one with the lock though.

I saw a pre-lock titanium (pre-scandium gun) sold for nearly $1,000 on gunbroker last month.

Captain38
July 25, 2008, 12:33 AM
226,

I found the serial number on yours interesting when I compared it to the 642-1 I already owned prior to these latest ones becoming available. MINE was manufactured in 2000 with a serial of CEFXXXX, so there's obviously going to be quite a gap between some Smiths in the same model.

ArchAngelCD
July 25, 2008, 12:54 AM
Whish they would make the barrel a bit longer as well...since I can only hit a target about as far as I can throw the weapon as it stands. The only reason I keep this revolver is because nobody else makes one that slips so easily into the front pocket.
DawgFvr,
Not to start anything here but it's not the revolver that is inaccurate. A short barrel revolver is no less accurate than one with a longer barrel.

Also, what good is carrying any gun you can't shoot well? IMO that's like carrying no gun at all except for the possibility of shooting someone you don't intend to shoot.

I found the serial number on yours interesting when I compared it to the 642-1 I already owned prior to these latest ones becoming available. MINE was manufactured in 2000 with a serial of CEFXXXX, so there's obviously going to be quite a gap between some Smiths in the same model.
Captain38,
The serial # just goes to show us all that these revolvers were made this year and not leftover stock. Additionally, if you take notice of the number next to the serial #, that gives you the manufacture date. The # 8192 means the 192nd day of 2008.

only1asterisk
July 25, 2008, 01:04 AM
ArchAngelCD,

The frames could still be old. They don't get a serial number until they're finished, so they could be old forgings.

David

ArchAngelCD
July 25, 2008, 01:09 AM
David,
I didn't say they weren't old parts, I said they weren't old stock as in complete guns found on a shelf somewhere. I do however think these revolvers were made with new frames made this year and not from leftover parts.

only1asterisk
July 25, 2008, 01:31 AM
I do however think these revolvers were made with new frames made this year and not from leftover parts.

I hope you're right.

David

outerlimit
July 25, 2008, 03:16 AM
Me too!

johnnylaw53
July 25, 2008, 06:54 AM
well i make up my mind, stop by the gun shop yesterday and talked to the guy one more time about trading my lock 642 for a no lock that he getting several in today, seems after taxes would of been over 150 not 125 out the door. went home and it hit me same platform the lock hasn't given me any problems in over 1500 rounds and $150.00+ comes out to around 500 rounds. The slick side is good looking but i carry it and shoot it so I will spend the 150 on more rounds and live with the lock but for all you guys that got them really very nice weapons i do somewhat envy you but only so much money to spend on things like this.

be safe

oldgoat59
July 25, 2008, 07:32 AM
johnnylaw53 where are you located ? maybe we can work out a deal on your old gun. I'm in Greenville ,SC

226
July 25, 2008, 09:15 AM
Are there any of these left? And how long are they likely to stick around?

Contact Brad at DiscountGunDealer.com (http://discountgundealer.com/index.html). He sold me the 642-1 and bobbed hammer post-lock, post-MIM M37-2. He's out of M37-2s, but has 18 or so 642-1s in stock.

farscott
July 25, 2008, 01:19 PM
I saw a pre-lock titanium (pre-scandium gun) sold for nearly $1,000 on gunbroker last month.Dang. I need to tell my wife that her no-lock 342PD is a collector's item. Like that will stop her from shooting the heck out of it.

Regen
July 25, 2008, 01:30 PM
Check with local dealers. I called RSR and they indicated that they had sold or shipped to dealers. I called my local dealer and they had a few being shipped to them and I was able to reserve one.

The_Shootist
July 25, 2008, 02:03 PM
Sorry - duplicate deleted.

The_Shootist
July 25, 2008, 02:05 PM
....without the lock! :D

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/642a.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/642b.jpg


Picked it up this morning - went straight to the range. After passing a brush through it, put 120 rds through it to testfire it. My shooting was kinda lame, having mainly 130 gr plinking ammo, but the few rounds of BB standard pressure .38 spl I had grouped well. I have two more boxes of that stuff arriving next week.

It took me about 300-400 rounds to get pretty good with my M85 so I figure much the same with this snubby. But boy this revolver SURE is a joy to carry around and its quick to draw from a pocket as well!

Captain38
July 25, 2008, 02:45 PM
As of about 1:30pm today, MY 642-1 SN DCMXXXX was bought and paid for and safely stored before my wife ever noticed.

Phydeaux642
July 25, 2008, 04:05 PM
I talked to the guys at my LGS today and they called RSR while I was there. RSR must have received more 642-1s from S&W because they had 1,100 in stock. I sure wish I could afford another one but I have one with a lock and one without and I am out of money.:(

Captain38
July 25, 2008, 04:23 PM
It'll be interesting if, and when, Smith comes up with any other revolver frames without internal locks, say something in K or L-frame configurations.

THEN, we MIGHT say the S&W folks have FINALLY caught on to what their customers want!

OKshot
July 25, 2008, 04:59 PM
Hi everybody. Longtime lurker; first post here.

I just wanted to thank the posters here and on the 642 megathread (where I'm only on page 68 of part 1) for tipping me off to this release of no-lock 642s. I have a pre-lock 442-1 that is my main CCW and have been wanting a similar no-lock backup to it, and was able to have my LGS order me one for $429. I should have it early next week.

What brought me to THR was a search for more S&W info after seeing the no-lock 40-1 in American Rifleman and immediately ordering that one. It is a real joy to shoot and will carry most of the practice duty for the Airweights, and the extra 5 ounces of weight plus a heavy bronze T-grip make it much easier to shoot and faster too, with much less muzzle flip. It's a rock in my pocket compared to the 442, but still very carryable.

Anyway, back to lurking. Keep the good stuff coming...

Gator
July 25, 2008, 05:48 PM
I have two on the way. :)

The RSR rep my dealer talked to said they had plenty of them in stock. They also said there may be more no-lock S&Ws in other models coming! :D

Rugerlvr
July 26, 2008, 09:27 PM
Well, I picked mine up from Correia this morning. He posted on his blog that he had 2 more for sale. I wonder if he sold both today.

ArchAngelCD
July 27, 2008, 02:37 AM
It makes sense there are another 1,100 in stock. S&W is making 4,000 and RSR Group got an initial shipment of 700 on Tuesday. I'm sure the rest will follow shortly. Now that 1,800 have been sent to RSR there are only 2,200 left to be sent.

Gator,
For real??? Or are you pulling our leg??? It's too good to be true S&W might actually be making no-lock revolver again. I know the re-release of their Classic Revolvers has been lack luster at best but I still never dreamed they would actually reverse their decision to put locks on everything they sell. The only bad thing about the possibility of them ditching the locks is, I can't afford all the revolvers I want to buy!! It took so long to find a no-lock revolver in the past I had time to save up the money while looking!! LOL

Gator
July 27, 2008, 03:01 AM
That's what the RSR rep said, but I've also heard that these 642s are over runs from a foreign contract, or that they were assembled from some older pre-lock frames that were lying around.

I'm thinking positive. :)

I'll buy a Classic Model 21 in a heartbeat if they make one without the lock!

The_Shootist
July 27, 2008, 09:20 AM
Or if they brought back that .44 spl - 296?? ... in a no lock form. Or maybe that version of the MTn Gun in .45 Colt...ummm.

Green Lantern
July 28, 2008, 10:36 PM
That's what the RSR rep said, but I've also heard that these 642s are over runs from a foreign contract, or that they were assembled from some older pre-lock frames that were lying around.

Well, I imagine he wouldn't be lying...after all, that would be quite dumb to kill any "Gotta buy it NOW if I'm gonna" feelings to this current lock-free release...

Here's hoping he didn't just get some bad info!!!

For that matter, even if this lot IS just "leftovers," they still MIGHT be planning on dumping the lock! :)

Rmart30
July 28, 2008, 10:42 PM
Hopefully S&W pays attention to how fast these things are going.....
I may have to send them a friendly email with kudos on its release .
Might would help if a few other online friends emailed them also ;)

Gator
July 28, 2008, 11:25 PM
I may have to send them a friendly email with kudos on its release .

I did just that; along with a request for more! :)

pinkymingeo
July 29, 2008, 05:53 AM
They don't seem to be selling particularly fast. RSR still has 1100 of a 3000 production run, and many are still on dealer's shelves. Considering the fact that there's been a furor among certain people, with guys buying a gun (some guys buying several) that many of them don't even want, I'd say sales are brisk but not exciting. When the dust settles and people calm down, a lot of these guns will be hitting the used market at bargain prices. That'll be the time to buy.

Green Lantern
July 29, 2008, 07:28 AM
The crappy state of the economy as a whole should probably be factored in as well...

Fingolfin
July 29, 2008, 12:09 PM
They don't seem to be selling particularly fast. RSR still has 1100 of a 3000 production run, and many are still on dealer's shelves.

Well most of this isn't even a month old, with only internet forums and some select email flyers as advertising. The word really isn't out, unless you follow forums like this word of mouth is only way you'd know, and that takes time. If they have gone through near 2,000 guns in a few weeks time out of a run that wasn't marketed, that's pretty good!

Thaddeus Jones
July 29, 2008, 12:22 PM
They are selling better/faster than the lock equipped revolvers locally. At least around here, there are finally orders being placed for new S&W revolvers. My FFL was surprised..........and pleased.

welldoya
July 29, 2008, 03:14 PM
"When the dust settles and people calm down, a lot of these guns will be hitting the used market at bargain prices. That'll be the time to buy."

You're dreaming. Have you seen any locked versions of the 642 at bargain prices ? I sure haven't. So, why would a more desirable version of the same gun start showing up at bargain prices, especially since there was only a run of 4,000 ?
It's S&W's most popular gun. There will always be a market, particularly for the no-lock version.
Before these came out, the 642-1 was bringing $100 - $250 more than the locked version on Gunbroker.
So, I'm betting when these are gone, all you are going to see is them commanding a higher price on Gunbroker. There won't be any bargains.

Matt-J2
July 29, 2008, 04:15 PM
I think if there's any bargains, it'll be folks whp bought the no lock 642 getting rid of their IL 642.

Thaddeus Jones
July 29, 2008, 04:43 PM
Interesting thought Matt-J2. If S&W indeed keeps making new lock free revolvers, and expands it to other models, the lock equipped models of those revolvers will be essentially worthless.............. and ugly :)

TT
July 29, 2008, 06:08 PM
I think if there's any bargains, it'll be folks whp bought the no lock 642 getting rid of their IL 642.

Hmm, interesting thought- I could use a 642 and I don't mind the lock... :)

Rugerlvr
July 29, 2008, 10:41 PM
http://www.xmission.com/~jdjonsson/images/jframes.jpg

ArchAngelCD
July 30, 2008, 02:27 AM
I'll buy a Classic Model 21 in a heartbeat if they make one without the lock!
Gator,
I feel the same way about the M627 Pro. I would love to own a 8 round .357 Magnum that I can load with or without full moon clips.

fastbolt
July 31, 2008, 04:55 AM
Well, considering how much I like my 642-1, and not knowing if S&W will ever decide to offer a standard catalog/production version of this non-ILS Airweight again, I decided to go ahead and order one of these newly released ones ...

If this keeps up I may end up owning as many J-frames as I do 1911's. :scrutiny:

weisse52
July 31, 2008, 09:08 PM
I am sitting here dry-firing my new non-lock 642 from FBMG!

Sold my last Glock to buy it.

I would buy a classic 21 non-lock in a heartbeat!!!

arflattop
August 1, 2008, 08:44 AM
I realize all the conflicting information regarding the run of 642's without IL, so I'll add mine! I e-mailed the COO of S&W last night encouraging them to expand this to other product lines, and received the following response this morning:

Thank you for taking time to write. We appreciate the feedback. The Model 642 is a special run only. We had some frame in our inventory that were the old style. We will continue to manufacture the revolver line with
the internal lock.

Thank you
kf


FWIW!

Thaddeus Jones
August 1, 2008, 11:33 AM
Too bad S&W can't seem to remove it's head from it's orifice. If you can sell more guns by making them lock free, or offering that idiotic lock as an option, why not do it?

My new lock free 642 is the first new product I purchased from S&W since 2000. I guess it is the last new S&W product I will purchase for several more years. Oh well, screw them.

weisse52
August 1, 2008, 11:58 AM
Sorry to hear the reply from Smith. This was also my first purchase of a new Smith since the lock. For a short time I had visions of a new N frame.


Sigh......

ArchAngelCD
August 1, 2008, 01:05 PM
I guess the hole on the side of their revolvers isn't the only hole at S&W.

TOGGLELOCK
August 1, 2008, 07:43 PM
Write him back. Tell him that we will not buy any lock guns. If he wants to follow the law (DC vs. Heller). Get with it Mr. No damned locks!

alistaire
August 1, 2008, 08:01 PM
Thank you for taking time to write. We appreciate the feedback. The Model 642 is a special run only. We had some frame in our inventory that were the old style. We will continue to manufacture the revolver line with
the internal lock.

Thank you
kf

MOST UNFORTUNATE.

weisse52
August 1, 2008, 08:37 PM
Just so everyone understands Smith and Wessson's stand. I came home to open my email with the exact same message....

Thank you for taking the time to write.
We appreciate the feedback.
We will continue to include the internal lock
on our revolver line. The Model 642 was a special
run only.

kf


Looks like they "got the script down" for email responses..

So how about a little support...Go to Smith and Wesson website and express your desires for lock free handguns.

And before anyone feels the need to tell me this does no good, I am fairly sure it falls on deaf ears. But based upon my career in the business world they do keep track of these things. Who knows when the "right person" will take a look and say, now it the time.

Phydeaux642
August 1, 2008, 10:35 PM
I have finally decided that I don't really care if they make any more guns without the lock. It's not that I am going to buy anymore with the lock (because I won't), it's because I am having too much fun looking for older Smiths without the lock. If they happen to make more no-lock guns them I'm in, but if not, let the searching continue.

weisse52
August 2, 2008, 12:04 AM
OH, do not get me wrong. With a recent purchase of a Model 10 and this 642 I am in the mood to find some more....Maybe I will start the hunt for that 25-2 I miss.

Gary A
August 2, 2008, 01:11 AM
I am convinced that even if Smith and Wesson had some idea that they might do away with the lock, they would be foolish to tip their hand by publicly answering queries in that fashion. Except for special runs or test runs (or whatever they are) they would have to sell down inventory before phasing in or announcing a change in policy. They're not going to make their current inventory less desirable, and therefore less valuable, by tipping their hand prematurely. Who would want "lame duck" inventory? I wouldn't. Retrofitting a large inventory would be very expensive. They're sure not going to announce a major "mea culpa" and eat their inventory for lunch. Some people might say they don't keep that much inventory on hand. If that is so, where did 4,000 no-lock 642-1 frames come from? (Oops! Look what we found!) They also have to think of the inventory in their distibutors' pipelines.


KF has been a solid and helpful customer service person for S&W for quite a while and/but she's going to offer whatever official line they tell her to offer. Just like a press secretary. Who knows what the brass is really thinking?

The_Shootist
August 2, 2008, 11:42 AM
Anybody think it interesting these 4000 "special run" 642's magically appeared by the end the last Tax Rebate checks were going out. :evil:

All I can say that is alot of extra parts to have lying around - or an awfull big special police/overseas order that went south - in time for the last tax checks :scrutiny:

Green Lantern
August 2, 2008, 12:43 PM
Oh well....

Taurus CIA for me, I guess. Yeah, it has a lock - but not one that will render the gun useless if it fails....right? :confused:

Then again, Gary makes a good point. Hmmm..

ETA: I did my part in contacting them, here's my e-mail:

I was disappointed to read from fellow gun enthusiasts that the recent batch of lock-free Model 642s were a one-off and not a sign of either removing the lock or at least making it only an OPTION.

...then again, someone with more business savvy than I pointed out that maybe you just didn't want to reveal it too soon if that WAS the case, as it would cause a devaluation of your current, "lock" guns.

You know, unlike many, I am not bothered a bit JUST by the notion that a gun has an internal lock. There are those that hate the looks, those that hate the concept, and those that hate both. I am not one of those people.

However, while doing some more research into buying a S&W, I literally got nauseous when I learned something that would be a VERY valid reason to hate the lock: That should the lock fail, it would "default" to locked position and thus RENDER THE GUN USELESS.

That would be a great annoyance on the range, but it would be a completely UNACCEPTABLE, potentially FATAL risk to someone like me, who was not in the market for a "target gun" but for a gun to be used for self-defense!

If this is true about your internal lock, I'm honestly baffled as to how you can stay in the gun business! Then again, I was ignorant about that fatal flaw and learned before I bought. Maybe others have not been so informed until AFTER they bought the gun?

I join countless other gun owners in calling on you to either do away with the internal locks altogether or at least make them optional. I go a step further than some by adding that if you MUST have a lock on ALL guns, then I would be willing to buy one if you would just re-work the mechanism so that the gun would "default" to UNLOCKED should the lock ever fail!

I won't be terribly disappointed at a negative response. Again, "business savvy," and I understand that letting us know TOO soon that you're changing the lock situation would hurt sales of the current guns out there on shelves right now. But I do urge you to give what I say strong consideration, as you can only increase your business if you do!

Thank you,

Fingolfin
August 2, 2008, 11:51 PM
What I don't understand is, why does a revolver deserve the lock but not an autopistol? Am I missing something or do ALL new Smith and Wesson autopistols come with the internal lock? I was thinking just a few do.

If they felt it needed some kind of safety I would have much preferred a Glock style trigger or something. There has to be a better way. If Smith and Wesson wanted to be politically correct they wouldn't be selling assault rifles and pistols with 17rd magazines. It doesn't make sense to me.

johnnylaw53
August 3, 2008, 07:50 AM
well i made my mind up not to get a lock free 642 due to the extra money i would have to lay out. Friday i stop at a local gun store to look at shotguns a yearly thing when dove season come close always end up in the field with the old 870 but one day a nice side by side. I look in the handgun case and there was a lock free 642 i asked to look at it and really it looks so nice without the hole, Price was 475.00 ouch. I asked if he would take a trade in and he stated he would so i explain i'm a ccw holder and an LEO and that i was taking my weapon out and unloading it so he could look at it. He okayed that so I did. He took it to the back room came back in a few and told me he would give me 250.00 for it since it was a little rough. so that 225.00 out of pocket and what did he mean rough? It a working gun it's used I check out the new one as I have learnd on this fourm about checking a used revolver and found that when i dry fired it and held the tigger back there was more play in the clyinder then on my"rough" 642 I told him his new 642 was too loose took mine back loaded it place it back under my shirt and left. The lock still bug me some but mostly when I go to the S&W fourm those guys really don't like the lock at all. think i will just not go there anymore and use my "rough" 642 if it ever lock up on me at the range then will rethink the whole thing if it happens on the street well been shot at before and my luck got me out of it guess i'll hope for the best. Of course this all could be sour grapes since i don't have one. to all you people that have one and share picture with us they sure do look nice.

Be safe

Drgong
August 3, 2008, 08:17 AM
Lets say S&W relizes that there is a major market for lock free S&W. They are going to wait till the locked versions are low in number before saying anything, as they are not going to put the distributors up the perverbial creek without a paddle.

outerlimit
August 3, 2008, 10:01 AM
We will continue to manufacture the revolver line with
the internal lock.

And I'll continue not to buy them.

fastbolt
August 3, 2008, 03:41 PM
Threads like this always seem to turn into a debate (argument) on the S&W revolver ILS.

While I prefer my personally-owned revolvers to be without internal lock systems, I ordered one of the M&P 340 Centennials because I wanted a J-frame with some of its features.

I've used that J-frame as my off-duty weapon upon occasion, and without fear that the ILS would unintentionally engage were I to need it. :uhoh: :eek: Oh my, I can hear the gasps ... as well as the folks who think that makes me either too gullible & foolish or a "S&W apologist".

I think of myself as neither, but then I would, wouldn't I? :)

I use my M&P as my default 'range' snub, too. I've run a fair amount of rounds through it, using a varying mix of standard pressure, +P and .357 Magnum loads. On some occasions when my hand has become tired of the Magnum loads I've managed to coax a couple of other folks into shooting them through it, testing the performance of the gun and ammunition in their hands. (A couple of the other instructors cringe when I offer them the gun and free Magnum ammunition, knowing the recoil. ;) )

My M&P 340 has yet to exhibit any functioning issues related to the ILS.

My 3 other J-frames lack the ILS, as does the 642-1 I just ordered (to complement my existing 'original' 642-1, which is my favorite Airweight). If these 642-1's hadn't become available when S&W was cleaning out some back-stock of the older frames, I'd have probably ordered one of the new M40's ... partly because of the reintroduction of the nostalgic grip safety design, but also partly because it lacks the ILS.

Given my druthers, I'd always select a revolver without an ILS.

I ordered my M&P 45 without an ILS, too.

I just don't lose any sleep worrying about the ILS in my M&P 340 unintentionally locking when I'm using it.

I've had revolvers 'lock up' on me because of a stubbed DA sear, tolerances which were too tight, powder flakes/grit under the extractor, a high primer, a raised burr on the hand, or other problem, though ...

If asked, I'd offer that I'm happy that these older 642-1 frames were released as a limited production run of guns came out ... and that I had the presence of mind to order one, even though I already own an original one. At least S&W didn't just destroy them or keep them buried.

I'm one of those folks who would like to see the company decide to offer an alternative line of non-ILS models. Unlike the folks among the internet forums who vehemently decries the presence of the ILS, however, I suspect that S&W would continue to find customers who would want to have the option of being able to purchase their revolver with an ILS. There are folks who like it, and they may possibly outnumber those who hate it. Then there are those customers who probably don't care one way or the other.

In another 5, 10 or 15+ years this may become a moot point, too, depending on the consumer safety trends and future 'reasonable' legislation.

Gator
August 3, 2008, 06:45 PM
My objection to the lock is primarily aesthetic; that hole in the frame is just plain ugly. If S&W had used the same system as Taurus, I wouldn't care as much.

I got my first no lock 642 Friday, with number two on the way. :D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 3, 2008, 07:53 PM
Nice. Would not have believed it. Kudos to those of you (us) who did "boycott" the hillary hole guns. Now S&W, bring back crush-fit, P&R, and make a 5-shot K or L frame in 10mm with 4.5" bbl. Then we'd really have something. :)

jocko
August 3, 2008, 08:01 PM
My new M & P 9 does not have a lock. I think it was offered in another model number with a lock feature but mine does not have one. I think Smith just jumped the gun putting the lock on the wheel guns. Lawyers, Lawyers, Lawyers. ought to hang them all.

226
August 3, 2008, 08:09 PM
I've never purchased a Smith & Wesson revolver with an IL and never will. My last two Smtih & Wesson purchases, a 37-2 and a 642-1, were both brand new in box revolvers - both are post-lock; one MIM, one post-MIM.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 3, 2008, 08:12 PM
"Post-lock"?

226
August 3, 2008, 09:24 PM
pre-lock | lock | post-lock

aka no-lock

Green Lantern
August 3, 2008, 10:41 PM
I just don't lose any sleep worrying about the ILS in my M&P 340 unintentionally locking when I'm using it.

Any mechanical device is capable of failure. I just like the odds being more in my favor. Quoth Scotty, something to the effect of "the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the works!" :D

226
August 3, 2008, 11:14 PM
My M&P 340 has yet to exhibit any functioning issues related to the ILS.Without the lock, your chances for a lock related stoppage would be zero.

fastbolt
August 4, 2008, 02:04 AM
Without the lock, your chances for a lock related stoppage would be zero.

Guess in that situation I still wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

weisse52
August 4, 2008, 02:06 AM
It is not an issue if the ILS is going to lock up or not. I think it is ugly and very BIG BROTHER. I do not worry about it, I just will not buy one with it. It was an answer to a question that I did not ask.

I have a couple of SA 1911's with the mainspring lock. It does not bother me, but if it did I can change the MS and get rid of it.

Smith and Wesson has / had other options instead of an internal lock. They choose to use it, I choose not to buy handguns with locks that ugly up the end product.

I will continue to buy S&W revolvers, just non with a lock. I have already started to save my nickles and dimes to purchase a new M40...without a lock.

Shade00
August 4, 2008, 03:31 AM
Anybody know if they have 37-2s still available? Thinking about picking up a new Airweight... I've been eyeing the 442 for a while, but I'd like one without a lock.

ArchAngelCD
August 4, 2008, 03:38 AM
The M37's were sold out 2 weeks ago, after all, they only had 200 available in the total run.

Will5A1
August 4, 2008, 08:50 AM
As of late last night (10-11pm) RSR was showing 71 no lock 37's in stock and 1140 of the no lock 642's.

Fingolfin
August 4, 2008, 12:19 PM
I'm surprised there aren't more threads and tutorials about removing the lock yourself. From the few posts I have seen on the S&W forum, it doesn't look hard. I would think there would be a gunsmith demand for it, the perception of some kind of liability issue is a bit overblown I think. I just bought a no lock 642 and am thinking about removing the lock on my other 642 and leaving the no lock in the box unfired since it appears there are no plans to sell revolvers without the locks as standard production.

Speaking of liability, I can only imagine the suit if a locked up snubbie revolver was found on the ground beside a dead off duty police officer.

Somebody explain the rationale, I still don't get it. There are other ways that the gun could be lockable or a safety mechanism added(note the new lemon squeezer replicas do not have the lock).

P. Plainsman
August 4, 2008, 07:57 PM
Hope people keep buying these no-lock 642s! I've got mine on the way.

Best news from S&W in ages.

My objection to the stupid locks is in direct proportion to (1) whether the revolver in question is a self-defense gun and (2) the recoil-to-weight ratio. Thus, I don't greatly mind the lock on my 617 -- it's a practice and target gun (not a potential lifesaver); it's got a steel frame; it has almost no recoil.

But I distrust the lock on a lightweight, centerfire CCW revolver like the .38+P Airweights. And so this'll be my first (new) S&W carry piece since they added the locks.

226
August 4, 2008, 10:12 PM
Anybody know if they have 37-2s still available?
Brad at DiscountGunDealer.com (http://www.discountgundealer.com/) had 10 coming in a week or so ago and may still have some. Give him a shout.

About the stupic lock..., why did they make it so that when the lock spring fails the gun automatically (uh oh, run away fast, an automatic gun!!!) goes into the locked position? Why not design it to fail in the unlocked, usable firearm position?

Things that make you avoid lock'd smiths with a passion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/usacivpol/SMITH%20AND%20WESSON%20LOCK%20UP/LFP_0094.jpg

ArchAngelCD
August 5, 2008, 03:31 AM
Will5A1,
Thanks for the info on the M37. They must have gotten another shipment which is great news...

biglmbass
August 6, 2008, 01:11 PM
Is the following the correct # for the model 37-2 w/ bobbed hammer and no lock?

SW149968FC

Anyone know? Thanks in advance.

226
August 6, 2008, 07:02 PM
Here is the box from my 37-2:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8383/picture001zb3.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001zb3.jpg)

outerlimit
August 11, 2008, 01:52 PM
I still find it hard to believe that they had that many frames laying around for ten years, but I guess anything's possible.

ArchAngelCD
August 12, 2008, 02:34 AM
I still find it hard to believe that they had that many frames laying around for ten years, but I guess anything's possible.
outerlimit,
I agree but who knows. I could believe they had all the M37's they sold in 2005 and this year but 4,000 M642's??? That's a hard one to swallow. I truly hope they are "testing the waters" but don't want to let on right now. Again, who knows?

P. Plainsman
August 12, 2008, 04:40 AM
Yeah, 4,000 J-frames would represent $1 million or more in gross revenues for S&W, so I find the official explanation a little hard to believe too. But I'm hardly an expert on the firearms business.

Like y'all, I hope they're testing the waters to gauge the demand for more no-lock revolvers. Bring 'em on, S&W!

capnswole
September 6, 2008, 02:16 PM
Are any of these still available? If so could you please include a source. Thanks.

ArchAngelCD
September 7, 2008, 01:21 AM
RSR Group (http://www.rsrgroup.com/index.php) still has them available but your Gun Shop will have to order it from them because you don't sell to the public.

Top Gun Supply (http://www.topgunsupply.com/smith-wesson-model-642-centennial-38spl_p-without-internal-lock.html) also has them in stock and you can order one yourself but you will still need to have it sent to an FFL. They are charging $419 + $18 S&H. That's not bad unless your dealer is going to charge you $25 to do the transfer. Your dealer can order one from RSR Group for $359 plus his markup.

BTW, RSR Group not only had M642 no-locks in stock, they also have M442 no-locks in stock too if you would rather buy it in black.

Photoman
September 7, 2008, 08:25 PM
I didn't think the 442's were in yet?

camsdaddy
September 7, 2008, 08:36 PM
Is there a certain model number to request for the no locks?

welldoya
September 7, 2008, 09:29 PM
Just tell them you want one without the internal lock. They will know what you mean.

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2008, 02:43 AM
Is there a certain model number to request for the no locks?
That's why I took the time to provide the links for you in my post.

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