[Ari]

Thinking of going down to a smaller gun on hotter days. Thinking of either. Mak feels a little better due to it having a fuller frame, also has a little more stoping power and is a little cheaper. The 3AT is just alot more comfortable and easier to conceal. What are your thoughts?

[firestar]

I don't own either but after owning a Kel-Tec P-32 that was a total and compleat POS, I can't recomend them to anyone. I think the P3-AT is similar enough to the P-32 to make me feel that it may suffer from the same problems.

Just judging from what others have said about the Mak, they seem to be ultra reliable and I want to get one but for some reason they are impossible to find!:banghead: Its not like I live in BFE, I live in a good sized city that had plenty of gunstores and decent gunshows every couple of months but Maks are scarce. I have seen two in person and passed on them for $150 but now I am starting to regret it. Every other mil surplus gun is easy to come by except the Mak. I take that as a sign that people buy tham and keep them rather than buy them and sell them.

[Saber]

If your looking for something easy to conceal, then the P3-AT is going to be the easiest of the two, just slip it into a good pocket holster then slide it in your pocket and your not going to realize you have it on you after a few days of carry. Then find yourself a good deal on a Mak, and make it your fun gun or alternate carry. From what I have heard Mak's are fun to shoot and built like tanks. As always with what ever you decide to carry, run several hundred rounds through it to make sure its reliable and to learn how it shoots and handles. I personally own the P-32 and have never had a problem with it, I carry it most every day simply because of its light weight and easiness to conceal. I also own and carry other handguns, but the P-32 is my always gun and the only thing that would replace it now as an everyday carry would be the P3-AT.

Take care;

Saber

[coldshot03/04]

I know that my buddies over on KTOG.ORG are going to Clobber me. But, IMHO. I recommend the Makarov. My KTP32 worked fine in the beginning but, has failed way to many times to be carried for my personal protection handgun.:uhoh:

I have no experience with the P3AT.

[9x19]

IF you spend summers dressed in shorts and T-shirts like me... get the P-3AT. I have four Kel-Tes (2 P-11s and 2 P-32s), and they have all been good performers.

IF your daily dress allows you to comfortably carry something a bit larger, then get the Makarov. I have five of them (2 Bulgarian, 2 Russian, 1 E. German) and they also have all been good guns.

I also have a soft spot for the Bersas (I have one in .32 and another in .380)... :D

[PCRCCW]

The Makarov is so reliable, I still have problems believing it. I'd carry it as a self-defense piece any day. The round's a good one, too, though really only marginally better than .380"

I agree with this..but if you add the loss of velocity from the short barrelled KT and compare it to the +3 1/2" barrel of the Mak...the Mak would have quite a bit more energy...just a thought.

Shoot well.

[firestar]

First: Pretend firestar's response isn't there - you can use the ignore feature.

Flyer,
Why is it that my post isn't valid? By your logic, anyone that has ever had a problem with a Kel-Tec is a liar and should not be listened to.:rolleyes: At least I am being honest. You have had PLENTY of problems with your P-32s but somehow that isn't important because they are the best guns ever made and so what if they don't work ALL the time. :uhoh:

coldshot03/04,
I know that my buddies over on KTOG.ORG are going to Clobber me. But, IMHO. I recommend the Makarov. My KTP32 worked fine in the beginning but, has failed way to many times to be carried for my personal protection handgun.

I am sorry to hear about anyone that has problems with guns but now you see that I was not totally crazy. I'm not going to say I told you so because I am not gleeful that I was right. I wish I was wrong and I got the only bad P-32 ever made but I know that is not true. Kel-Tecs DO have problems.

I don't know why people get mad at me when I voice my opinion and experiences wth these guns. I am not telling anyone that they can't own a Kel-Tec but rather warning them that maybe it isn't the best choice for a CCW due to the spotty track record they have.

If we all listened to Flyer, we would all have Kel-Tecs and if they weren't reliable, we would be told that we were doing something wrong. "You didn't lube it right" or You didn't do the fluff and buff" or "You must be limp wristing it" or "You are not smart enough to own a Kel-Tec" or some other nonsense. If it dosen't work, I will give it a second and maybe a third chance but not a fouth or a fifth chance.

[denfoote]

This one's a no brainer to anyone who knows me!! :D


PISTOLET MAKAROVA

Why bet the farm on an as yet untested marketplace newcomer!!
True, the reports I have read indicate that Kel-Tec has a winner, but I remember a certain Taurus PT-145 that I beta tested during the TFL days!!! ;)

[Bren]

Don't rule out the Bersa 380 and Kahr PM-9. The Bursa is cheap and they work and are alloy. (much lighter than the mak)

I don't carry my E-German maks because they are HUGE for the wimpy caliber. Kel tec's are iffy and can crap out on you at any minute. I consider them as a last ditch gun,,, right before a rock. :p .

I do have a Kel Tec 380 coming but only for when the rocks and car antenna's are slim pickings! :D I carry bigger guns in a decent cal's and people who say a pocket gun is all they can carry are just lazy. :uhoh:

ITWB and a floppy button shirt can hide about any 9mm/40 compact.

Flyer, you can "have your way" with Firestar but don't even think about messing with the Brensters opinion. You ain't ready yet. :evil:

[PCRCCW]

What you have are two very different guns in size, mechanics, weight, age of proven design and history. One is my first choice...the other still needs OEM refining befoe its a CCW for me.

The Makarov has been the chosen sidearm of 100's of 1000's of persons in comm block countries for years. Its simple mechanically, as reliable as a brick, small enough to conceal almost anywhere, thin and very accurate.

The KT is very small and light enough to set new standards for the caliber its chambered in. Thats very cool. Maybe a best choice for deep concealment for those who want a small/light s/auto....MAYBE!........

What kills the KT for me and Im sure a couple of others on the forum is....

The design isnt proven as of yet IMO. Ill expand on that theory. Any gun I buy, even the "must take to a smith to make it reliable 1911, should run out of the box.
I know there are guns that need work from all makers, but when common knowledge dictates a "fluff and buff" to make it run, my thinking is KT should do this before they sell the little things and charge another 50$ for it.
Im capable of doing alot of my own smithing, blueing, trigger work, bla bla bla..and I dont want to have to do it to make it run properly...I want to do it to make it run the way I want. THATS THE BUMMER FOR THE KT.

The ones Ive seen have so so finishes also...a better finish, properly buffed at the factory...guaranteed to run..without muliple trips to KT at my expense...for around 300$ and Im first in line.

The cheaper price they sell for isnt justification for the hit and miss reliability in my book. Look at CZ's....for a little over what the P3AT sells for you can get a 9MM gun that will shoot perfectly for a life time. Out shooting many other more expensive guns in the process.

Just my take on things..and hey, to each his own. :evil:

Shoot well

[makarov1]

MAKAROV

[tiberius]

The Makarov has been the chosen sidearm of 100's of 1000's of persons in comm block countries for years.

You really think they had a "choice". Choice wasn't a big thing with the commies.


edit -Gawd I'm a sloppy typist!

[PCRCCW]

OK....good point. Whether or not they had the choice...being a "You will carry this and shoot the capitalists!!!!!!!" situation..., they were still used by LOTS of guys with LOTS of success.

Im sure at times....If they didnt use them as they were ordered..they saw how well they worked first hand. God I love our country.......

Shoot well

[coldshot03/04]

Oh dont get me wrong. I still like my little KTP32. I slightly polished the feed ramp and a few other places, the gun has been running fine since. Ill put another couple of hundred rounds through it before Id trust it with "my life".;)

[jc2]

I think we might be overstating the effectiveness of the 9x18 in Soviet usage. Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, they had started to beef-up the Makarov design and designed hotter ammunition for it (too hot for the standard Makarov), and the troops that might have a reason to use a handgun more (Spec Ops) had migrated to the 9x19 in the form of the CZ75.

[firestar]

If Kel-Tec chambered the P-3AT in 9mm;
Finished it BEAUTIFULLY, but kept the grip polymer;
GUARANTEED functional reliability;
And kept up their lifetime guarantee and great customer service too, BUT:
Charged almost $1000 for it...
Would you buy it?;

To paraphrase the movie "Tommy Boy", 'I could take a dump in a box and stamp a guarantee on it if it would make you feel any better.' Haha! You can keep you "guarantees" and I'll stick with a quality product from the start!

[Bren]

Hahahahaha! I loved that line and it's so true!

[MarkDido]

I carry a P-32 with the 10 round mag. The longer grip is easier to handle and control for me, and doesn't adversly affect its concealability. I live in Florida, so I'm in shorts and t-shirts most of the time, so I use a nice Don Hume pocket holster.

As for the Mak, the nice thing is that if you can't hit them with the round, you can always blind them with the muzzle flash!

[alamo]

firestar wrote:

To paraphrase the movie "Tommy Boy", 'I could take a dump in a box and stamp a guarantee on it if it would make you feel any better.' Haha! You can keep you "guarantees" and I'll stick with a quality product from the start!

---------------------------------------------------

I think it is time for the moderator to show you the exit door. Your childish vendettas are getting tiresome.

[makdaddy03]

Makarov is the "Clear Winner" IMHO.:evil: And if you dont like it you know who!:evil: Then:neener: :neener:

[makdaddy03]

And

[makdaddy03]

So you ride a Honda? Nice Bike.

Can you say Suzuki GSX-R1000? Ill race you.:evil:

[makdaddy03]

Heres a pic of my baby.

[PCRCCW]

You guys are getting off track..literally :D I appreciate competitive bikes as much as anyone..and you both have very nice hardware. But keep the "Ill race ya...wanna run for pinks?" on the track if youre serious about it.

My profile doesnt say squat about bikes. Im an MSF instructor, ex-racer, bla bla bla. Ive been on more than my share of rides where the guy who painted the shortest line out of a corner bought lunch.
My last ride dyno'd at 162 HP w/ 118 FPT...it ran nicely.

But, Ive also pulled my head out of my butt. I was the last person a certain squid saw before he passed on, he went down on a Squid/RacerBoy gathering a couple of years ago and they had plenty of competitive spirit. That spirit paid off with a 22 year old kid who died with his in my lap.

My brother has taken many race schools...F. Spencer, Vegas, bla bla....
He rides very well...on unfamiliar roads were neck and neck..

He high sided his 2001 GSXR1000 and his bike slammed him into a retaining wall. The bike went over the wall and down a 300ft cliff.
He survived but broke/ruptured damn near everything from his neck down with full leathers/etc on at the time.

My point is and always will be the best riders dont need to say what they can do...they just do it. And they never do it on the street!

Sorry for the rant...I hear this S%&T all of the time but it struck a nerve today........

Hope you both keep the rubber side down and Ride/Shoot well

[pistolwhipped]

Nice hat.

[makdaddy03]

Flyer, Theres one thing that we have in common. Very Nice Bikes.
Yep I lost a buddy awhile back he was doing wheelies and lost it. Killed him instantly.
For me Ive gotten mine up to about 150mph gotscared and she was still wanting more. Be Safe Buddy. Ill leave you and KT alone.

Ps,To keep this on topic I carry my Mak while riding the GSX-R1000.

I raced a guy on a Yamaha R1 left him like he was sitting still.

pss The Honda is one of my favs. I had an "Interceptor" it was nice but doesnt compare to the GSX-R. Be Safe!!;)

[Ed N.]

Back to Mak vs. KelTec for a moment...

I have a P32 that I'm now happy with, but it was an effort to get it there. Fortunately I live in central Florida and could drive over to the factory, which I had to do a few times.

KelTec had a bad run of extractors, and I got one of those initially. The gun stovepiped rounds terribly. KT sent me a new extractor, which helped, but then my slide cracked. About a 1/4" long crack opposite the ejection port.

KT replaced the slide, but then it was back to stovepiping. I couldn't get through a complete magazine without a FTE. Finally, I called and spoke with the production manager, explained the problems, and told him it was time to call this one a lemon and replace it.

He agreed, I drove to Cocoa, gave him my gun, and he gave me a new one. Let me pop a couple hundred rounds on their range to test it before I left. No problems since.

Now on the Mak side, I have its prettier sister, an FEG PA63 in 9x18. I've only had a couple of hundred rounds through it so far, but no problems at all apart from a bloody heavy trigger.

Advice? Only get the KelTec if you're willing to have a little hassle to get it shooting correctly. If you want a hassle free shooter, consider a PA63.


NOW then, as far as racing goes, I only race things with roll cages.

[David4516]

OMG! this is a no-brainer :banghead:

MAKAROV!

The Mak is a PROVEN design with a reputation for reliabilty. My Mak has NEVER jamed on me. For that matter, I have NEVER seen a Mak jam, period. I carry a Mak because I trust it more than any other auto-loader.

Now, the KT on the other hand...

It's new and un-provern. It is based on a design that has a reputaion for failing (the P-32). About the only thing going for it is that it is so darn tiny. Other than that, I can't think of any advantage to it...

[firestar]

The Kel-Tec is so much smaller and lighter than the Mak that it isn't really fair to compare the two. About the only gun that comes close to the size of the P3-AT is the NAA in .380 but it is much heavier. The P3-AT has only been out for a short while but already the feedback is mixed. I have heard plenty of negative feedback on the P3-AT which makes me think the bugs are not yet worked out.

Flyer, thanks for posting that pic of you with your bike, I have never laughed so hard in my life. My eyes are still wet with tears. You are the last of the great clowns, you make us laugh and you make us cry.:D Love the Jed Clampet hat! ...kin folk said, Jed, move away from there...;)

[makdaddy03]

Flyer, Just to reassure you. Im not with stupid. (Firestar). Nor am I taking sides with a Llama/Bersa fan. (Firestar) :barf: :evil: I like your bike. Im thinking about trading my 2002 GSX-R1000 for a Honda. I really like the looks of your bike. Be Safe! and remember that I am not with stupid.;)

But I do agree the hat is not cool.:p

[Bren]

no no no, Jockeys wear a different hat. :evil:

[David4516]

PETA=

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[makdaddy03]

Well since its real Kangaroo. Your hat is fine.:D

[PCRCCW]

Well, since your live there and you wear it for that reason. You need a Rattlesnake hat wrap. A bearclaw necklace and you can even get a Tigereye ring and tell them its a real tigers eye.....:what: Ohh Ahh..
At least one of the tree huggers will believe you....LOL
Ride/shoot safe....