Pros & Con of SA revovler vs DA or Semi Auto for Conceal Carry

[Mike Sr.]

I am quite good shooting a single action 357 mag with full power loads; at one time I could cut a cornstalk in-half at 20 yards. I now have a CCW permit (first time I've carried a firearm in case of harm, since 1966) and I'm torn between which system to carry: Single action 357,
Double action 357 or 44 mag( mild cast loads about 1100fps) and semi auto: .40 or 45.

I am a firm believer 1st shot counts!

I understand importance of the load carried.

Any information will help...

Thanks...Mike Sr.

[tinygnat219]

Disadvantages of a SAA Clone or revolver:

Difficult to conceal
Difficult to reload
Capacity.

[knockonit]

Tough decision, I open carry a revolver here in Az, quite a lot, also carry concealed but a smaller .38.
My alltime fav is anything in the 1911 platform.
I appear to very proficient in shooting it as well.
On any given day I also have a kel tec 380 in a pocket holster,
My rule of thumb is carry what works, hide the best ya can and deal with someone noticing it.
If you settle for something you aren't comfortable or shoot well, might as well have brought a high dollar club, it'll serve you better.
good luck with the choice, much like buying shoes, won't know if they're keepers till you walked a bit in them.
rj

[Bezoar]

Capacity and reload time are big factors. However with a single action army, you dont have to worry about having a magazine get released by accident, or spend 20 minutes trying to figure out why the magazine in your 1911 wont slide into the magazine well under duress.

If you can shoot it real well, stick with it untill you get confident in your shooting abilities with an easily concealed 5-6 shot semi auto pocket pistol.

[Mike Sr.]

The single action I would carry is a Ruger, stainless blackhawk, 4,5/8"...and I love shooting it.

[WC145]

Disadvantages of a SAA Clone or revolver:

Difficult to conceal
Difficult to reload
Capacity.

Agreed. I would also consider speed an issue. Plus having to cock the gun to ready it and lower the hammer if you choose not to shoot are just more steps during which something can go wrong. I'd choose any modern DA revolver or semi-auto over a SA only revolver.

I would also reconsider handloads for self-defense carry. Find out what your local PD or SO carry in their weapons and use the same in yours, in the appropriate caliber, of course.

[bukijin]

A single action revolver is great fun at the range but I can't see any advantage over a double action revolver. If you want, you can always use a DA in single action anyway.

[Steve from Ohio]

Main thing is to conceal carry whatever you're comfortable with. If you're good with the single action and can get off quick, accurate shots - then go for it.

I conceal carry a Smith & Wesson 642 Airweight loaded with .38sp +p. It is double action only (does not have a hammer). People tell me that in a "situation", the less "motor skills" that have to be used, the better. I know that I'd do much worse defending myself with anything single action. But thats me.

I also enjoy firing .357mag out of my Smith & Wesson 686 PLUS. I can make very accurate shots thanks to the 4" barrel - much more accurate than I can do shooting .38sp out of the Airweight snub. But the 686P revolver weighs 40oz when empty. Versus about 15oz for the Airweight. Even though I shoot better with the 686P, I choose the Airweight for CCW. CCW with the 686P is "legal" but pretty darn uncomfortable.

[jad0110]

A single action revolver is great fun at the range but I can't see any advantage over a double action revolver. If you want, you can always use a DA in single action anyway.

A number of folks find SA revolvers, particularly the 1873 Single Action Army and it's clones, to be at or near the top in the "pointability" category. And I agree. And since the first shot counts more than any other, I can certainly see why some carry a SAA, as it probably works best for them. I don't own any SAAs currently, but will one day. Something about them, they just seem to gravitate towards whatever object you want to put a round into, more so than any other handgun I've shot. And with practice, they can be mighty fast to get off that all important first shot.

Even if I had one, I'm not currently familiar enough with one to really on it for SD. But if I were, I'd OC it (legal in NC) and pocket carry my S&W 642 for a NY reload. But, with a good holster and belt, I'd imagine a SAA with no more than a 5.5" barrel wouldn't be too hard to conceal.

[Old School]

Double action revolvers are versatile, reliable and come in a myriad of different shapes, sizes and materials. There is bound to be a perfect CC choice for you out there in DA.

[Jim Watson]

Not my choice, but the single action will do the job... if you do.
There was a deputy here who carried a nickel SAA .44 Special. Nobody messed with him.

I think I'd want a .44 or .45; the .357 SAA is heavy due to the smaller holes in barrel and cylinder. But if you already have the .357, carry it and see how it feels on a daily basis. Are you comfortable, are you confident?

[No Quarter]

Birdshead Vaquero with the short barrel carries just fine with a good belt and holster.

I am confident in the gun and my ability to use it.

[Vern Humphrey]

I suggest trying to carry a SAA concealed. I suspect you will find it heavy, bulky and inconvenient and soon switch to something else.

[wheelgunslinger]

I carried a 45 lc Bisley Vaquero for quite a while.
I now carry a DA 357 mainly because I sold my Vaquero when I got into IDPA (and still regret it) and bought into brass pukers.

There are some good arguments here against the SA wheelgun, like reload time, etc.

However, I'd say that what is most important is that you are comfortable with it. Sounds like you are.

I'd carry it.

[briansmithwins]

I always learned it as:

Accuracy
Speed
Power

Accuracy: If you can't get hits it doesn't matter how fast you shoot or what you are shooting.
Speed: Given two opponents that are equal in accuracy, the one that gets a hit first is probably going to win the fight.
Power: Bring the biggest gun you can 1) carry 2) get hits with 3) does the most damage. The .25ACP in your pocket is better than the .44Mag in your safe.

As far as SA revolvers go, I couldn't see carrying one for potential social work. Do you practice drawing and firing one-handed? Your off hand may be busy when you need that pistol. How fast is your reload time compared to a DA revolver or semi-auto? The old FBI stat says that mot fights last for 7 rounds, how long does it take you to get to round #7?

I carry semi-autos. The big one (Walther P99) is what I shoot in local matches and am very comfortable with, the small one (Kahr PM9) is what I carry when I don't feel like carrying a gun.

BSW

[MICHAEL T]

Except for slower reload I don't see any reason. Worked for most of a hundred years . With out any body having a problem with it. I guess today were to busy peeing out pants and loosing contol to cock a pistol and pull the trigger under stress . Really are we wimps today need pistol to do it all for us.
If you feel comfortable then do it. Bet in a year be packing a smaller lighter pistol.

[Vern Humphrey]

Worked for most of a hundred years . With out any body having a problem with it.
Not quite. It was the Army standard issue for 19 years. While the replacement wasn't a great gun, the Army never stopped looking for something better -- and found it in the M1911.

As for other uses, what police department still issued SAAs a hundred years (1973) later?

[Cosmoline]

I'm torn between which system to carry: Single action 357, Double action 357 or 44 mag( mild cast loads about 1100fps) and semi auto: .40 or 45.

A double action .357 in a medium frame size is about ideal as a CCW piece. My own is a Speed Six. The K frame magnums are also good. The semis are fine but it's ultimately a matter of what you shoot best. Notice I say shoot best, not conceal easiest. Find the concealable weapon that works best for you, then find the rig that will conceal it. Don't go the other way around and end up with some 12 oz. magnum! The purpose is not to carry it, but to use it to defend your life in gravest extremes.

[Rexster]

The biggest pro of the SA sixgun is its superb pointability for many folks. The biggest con is the high amount of manipulation needed to keep it in action. The SA is NOT slow, in skilled hands, until it runs empty, at which point it takes more time to get it back into action. Most armed encounters are finished with the ammo that is inside the weapon; you run out of time before you run out of ammo. It is the anomalous longer engagements that require reloading.

Please keep in mind that the fourth sentence in the above paragraph does not necessarily support a low-capacity weapon.

As I just related in a longer version in the revolver forum of THR, the one time I thought I was going to have to use an SA sixgun to defend against two bad guys, the low capacity did not trouble my mind at the moment.

As for concealment, I find an SAA to ride quite comfortably, which involves more than just size. An SAA is balanced on the belt, and does not poke or prod me where some smaller weapons will. (Rear corners of some autoloader slides are particularly annoying to me.) I do not routinely carry an SA sixgun, as I also carry a badge, and my chief wants me armed with either an autoloader or a DA revolver. I can foresee carrying carrying an SAA some of the time after I retire, but then, as now, I will almost certainly also have a second, smaller weapon on me, too.

[MICHAEL T]

I wasn't talking about just the Military . Civilians own pistols also . Colt Paterson #1 pocket model Made 1837 Walker model 44 cal. 1847. Like I said around a 100 years.
I was addressing SA pistols of all types . Cap and ball has laid many a man in the ground.

[FEG]

Should you ever need more than 5-6 rounds, a SAA is hopeless. Gateloading is not a realistic tactical option.

Anyone seriously discussing this has not tried to reload a SAA under stress. It is SLOWER than SLOW.

[Vern Humphrey]

Should you ever need more than 5-6 rounds, a SAA is hopeless. Gateloading is not a realistic tactical option.

Some years back, after a grass fire, there was a serious search for artifacts at the Little Bighorn Battlefield. A great many cartridge cases were found and forensically examined -- so investigators were able to say, "X number of .44 Henry cases were found, from Y number of rifles."

One thing that "surprised" the investigators was that "so few .45 Colt cases were found."

Well, duh!

When a cavalryman was reduced to fighting with his revolver, and fired his last shot, he did't live to eject many fired cases!!

[3KillerBs]

Seems to me that the question is,

Which would you bring into action faster, the SA revolver that you've used until its as familiar as breathing or the semi-auto you have to think about?

I'm inclined to think that while it would be a mistake for a person with little shooting experience to set out to get an SA revolver for his carry it might be an equal mistake to part a person from the gun they have practiced with until everything about using it was instinctual no matter what type/caliber that gun was.

But, might there be a SA/DA revolver out there with the same ergonomics as your favorite that you could cock as you are accustomed to as a routine practice but which would offer the option of firing without cocking if you didn't have that extra split-second to cock your SA?

[crebralfix]

If that's all you have...then sure. If you have a small gun available, carry that too...New York reload and all that.

But there are better choices available. The double action revolver can be fired and reloaded faster. A semi-auto is even easier to reload and has higher capacity. I know the national average for rounds fired in a self-defense event is low, but that's an average. Your encounter may be on the extreme end...10 thugs, lots of weapons, lots of shots...or not.

Prepare for the 90%...get "good enough" and carry good enough equipment. As much as I'd like to carry an M4 to work, it's just not feasible.

[tinygnat219]

Some folks have pointed out how well these guns point and shoot for some people. That isn't the case for me. I can shoot just about any other revolver or auto much more accurate than I can the SAA. I own a Ruger BH .357 and I find the SAA's grip to be too small for my hands. I find that if I take the time, I can be very accurate with it, but for the most part I feel that there are newer, better designs out there.

I am not slamming the design, I mean Colt had to be doing something right to basically still be producing the same design on the same tools for the last 100 plus years, I just think that it's a design that doesn't work for me.

[machinisttx]

Single action revolver is for COWBOYS. You want a swing-out cylinder and a double/single action trigger for all sorts of reasons -- the biggest one being that your coordination goes all to hell on you when you're peeing your pants.

You lose small muscle control.

Single action gun in such a situation has every reason NOT to get cocked or to go off unexpectedly.

So that's why they failed so miserably!

[goon]

I'd say one advantage is durability if you go with a Ruger.
They're about as tough of a production revolver as you can get (although it's hard to fault the durability of any Ruger revolver).
They're also big and heavy.
One place where they are probably one of the best suited handguns you could carry is out in the woods. In that situation, you want a durable gun that can take a whack or two and keep working and you'll probably never shed any tears about the extra power of a 6" or longer .357, .44, or .45 LC revolver.

Other than that, DA revolvers have them beat.
Even in natural pointability, the S&W K-frame doesn't give up anything to any other handgun.
And DA's are faster to reload.

But there is this one guy on one forum I frequent who carries an old model Blackhawk .357 as his CCW handgun. Archaic by some standards, but at the same time, a 158 grain JHP is going to seriously damage whatever it hits regardless of what gun you use to get it there.

Obviously the OP is someone who has a decent grasp on what his handguns are capable of. Having said that, I think that out of the available choices, I'd go with the .45 ACP as a first choice and the .357 DA revolver as a second (I don't like the .40 S&W round but that's a preference). Either of those, within reason, should provide a pretty capable handgun that also isn't so difficult to carry that you just give up on it.
I'd leave the big SA's and big DA's for outdoors carry and hunting.

[RPCVYemen]

I think that we are probably all more or less in agreement on the facts:


Almost none (except LEOs) of us will ever have to use a handgun for self defense.
In a very small percentage of the cases where a handgun is used for self defense, (at least) one shot is fired.
In a very small percentage of the cases where a handgun is used for self defense and (at least) one shot is fired, two shots are fired.
In a very small percentage of the cases where a handgun is used for self defense and (at least) two shots are fired, three shots are fired.
...
In a very small percentage of the cases where a handgun is used for self defense and six shots are fired, the defender needs and is capable of shooting more shots.


In that final case, the fact that SA revolvers are slower to reload may be an issue. My guess is the chances of that happening to me are about as likely as being struck by lighting while I am on the cell phone with Angelina Jolie because she's asking me out while I am stepping out of the 7-11 having just bought a winning lottery ticket. :)

I don't deny that such a case is possible. It is certainly possible. And the odds may be different for you - maybe you like to pee in the gas tanks of Crips' rides, or live next to a secret government laboratory that's experimenting with building an undead army.

But in all cases except for that last case the type of handgun used is probably purely a personal preference. For almost all of us, luck, skill and shot placement will be hundreds of times more important than the type of weapon.

So use whatever you are comfortable with.

Mike

[Mike Sr.]

I just read and read these posts...and I find 'new' information with each read!

[The Bushmaster]

If I could figure out how I could conceal my 4 3/4" Colt .357 magnum SAA, I surely would not feel out or under gunned...For my body size it's just too bulky. Weight wise? Not a problem...Like you. I'm a pretty good shot with it. I've had it sense 1966.

[stormspotter]

Simply put, use what you are comfortable with and shoot best. As for concealed carry, I sometimes use Mernickle's IWB for my Ruger 50th.


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/ema567/100_3681.jpg

[MikePGS]

I believe Jim March carries a SA revolver in a fanny pack and reports that it works quite well. I really hope he sees this post, because he has all sorts of valuable insights and information on this topic.

[Blacksmoke]

Guiding Principal Number 1:

Thou shalt pack the gun you are the most familiar and comfortable with.

[Gunfighter123]

I have used Colt type SAs in Cowboy Action or SASS type matches for about 7 years and have done/seen some amazeing shooting with these 100+ year old firearm designs.
From a "hands up" starting position, useing one hand to cock and the other to fire , I do 5 shots and can hit a 18" steel target at 10 yards with all hits in about 4.0 to 4.5 sec. being timed with a Proshot timer.

I have also shot IPSC/Steel/IDPA type matches for about 15 years with a DA revolver , usually a S&W 625 or 610 . Again, from "hands up" at 10 yds.,18" steel target , 5 shots all hits -- my times are around 3.5 to 4.0 sec.

Have also shot IPSC/IDPA for almost 20 years with 1911 Colt type autos. My times for a draw and 5 hits are around 3.0 to 3.5 sec. -- 10 yds, 18"
target.

After MANY thousands of rounds fired , my times are less then 2 or 3 seconds difference for 5 shots/hits between the three handgun types.

I am very comforable shooting any of the 3 types BUT I WOULD use the semi-auto for protection. My Colt Gold Cup or ParaOrdnance will have between 8 and 16 shots ready to go and a spare mag for back-up.

Take into account , more then 2 BGs { they tend to run in packs} and tho I love my Cowboy guns , I would not want to carry something I couldn't reload quickly.

But IF YOU do deside on the single action CB guns --- really look into the Bob Mernickle ccw holster like Stormspotter posted .

Great guy and makes great Cowboy gun holsters.

[Majic]

Carry what you are comfortable and proficient with. Anything that anyone else may say means absolutely nothing to your ability of using a firearm. It is up to you to make the shot. So do what YOU do best, not what someone else may think.

[sheephearder]

Majic has good advice +1. If you shoot the sa and are comfortable with it then go for it. I have carried a ruger sa of one model or an other for years in the hills but pack a Glock 19 or 26 concealed. The sa hand gun will give you the option of a more powerful round for the back country but (in my case) only the lighter guns get carried regularly. Go with what you personally are comfortable with and good luck. ----Bill

[TexasRifleman]

I am quite good shooting a single action 357 mag with full power loads; at one time I could cut a cornstalk in-half at 20 yards

What's the old saying, "Fear the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it"........

I think you've answered your own question :)

[Gary A]

No concealed carry here and if there were I doubt I would use a single-action revolver. That said, a Blackhawk Convertible loaded with Federal 230 grain .45 ACP Hydrashoks is my "go-to" revolver here at home. I have chrony'ed these rounds at near 1000 fps from my revolver. I have DA .357s available but I like the big bullet, lower pressure, lack of supersonic "crack" of these bigger rounds and a .45 beats a .38 Special +P by a long shot IMO. Based upon long consideration of the types of situations around here calling for an armed response, I have faith that those 6 .45 caliber bullets are adequate to either end the situation or get me to the shotgun. Were I out and about I would prefer the ability to reload more quickly but would not feel unduly disadvantaged.

[PRM]

I own both and carry both. Depends on what I am doing that day and what I feel like. Small snubs (DA/SA) are easier to carry dependent on activity or event. On the other hand, one of my favorites is still the Colt SAA in .45LC. I use the El Paso Saddlery "Crosshair" holster for ease of carry and concealment of the SAA. The gun rides high and out of the way. I personally have never felt at a disadvantage because of the SA. I don't expect everyone to agree with my choices, but that doesn't only apply to firearms.

http://www.epsaddlery.com/pc-162-11-crosshair.aspx

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Just another Gun-Toting, Religion Clinging, Conservative :)

[foghornl]

"OK, wait a minute..." Foggy says, while installing self into asbestos bloomers.....

Years ago, my only handgun was a CVA replica of the 1858 "Army Remington" .44

You read that right..a cap-n-ball blackpowder SA revolver.

Only had to present it ONCE...leaving work one morning @3:00AM..found some miscreant attempting to steal battery from my car. Shoulda seen his face when I finally got that thing drawn

[Hostile Amish]

I'd take a high-quality DA revolver, although I do use a Glock 19, having no DA revolvers at hand currently. If the cartridge fails to fire for any reason (other than failure of the firing-pin), you need only to pull the trigger again.

[wheelgunslinger]

foghorn, that's pretty funny.
We get pretty caught up in the details of stuff sometimes and forget the real world application.
When a bad guy is standing there looking down the barrel and cylinder full of big nasty projectiles with you behind it, I would imagine he doesn't have much time to craft a cleverly worded argument about how antiquated your weapon is and how it's not the best choice- all in the Simpson's comic book guy voice, of course. :)